OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Well the gal that bought my car a few years ago has sent me a message telling me it's time for her to sell it.
I asked her when I sold it, if that time ever came, to contact me first.
It's a 1988 base Firebird, 2.8-V6, auto.

She's got a new car and the 'bird has lots of little repairs beyond her means.
I haven't seen the price or the list of items it needs yet, but she did say the tranny is on its way out.

It's obviously not worth much now, probably ~175,000 miles and beat up from when I let it go 3-4 years ago.
It was a pretty slick lookin' ride when she bought it, sounded good, tranny/motor had been rebuilt and it was in the 130K mile range.

She traveled far to pick it up and I got ~$4700 for it, which is amazing in itself, but shows it's condition and the work I put into it at the time and that if you have exactly what somebody is looking for, they will pay.

I went through and learned A LOT with that car, my first car ever when I was 17, got me hooked on Firebirds/Trans Ams, so there's some sentimentality there as I'm coming up on 10 years of lovin' 'em.

"Fair" Value says $955. She might think I'm crazy to offer $500, but I'm not sure what she wants yet.
If I were to buy it, I'd store it and when I have the means someday, make it a project car.
Pull the motor and tranny and replace the entire interior.
Possibly LSX under the hood and 4th gen interior.
The car has been around, not worth anything with a 2.8, so I wouldn't mind hacking it up and making a sleeper.

Also, it has the "rare" Z20 option, special appearance package from '88 only. (spoiler/wheel flares)

Sorry about the long post.
Your thoughts?

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

buy the v6 back its sweet with the apperance package and that would be pretty neat on the lsx swap

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I say go for it! Someday in the future you might regret not buying it when you had the chance. The pictures are very cool. They look very slick I think.

Cadillac

You'll hate yourself if you don't at least make an offer... low ball or not.

Heck, it's probably worth more than a grand in parts. I'd buy the wheel flares.

kairles

iTrader: (2)

with everyone

vindeezl

iTrader: (2)

MOTHER-F**KING DO IT!!!

I wish I could buy my "Hell Camino" back but I fear she's long gone, much like the rest of the hot rods I've sold.

Even at $1k it is a steal for the sentimental value to you alone IMO.

And as you stated yourself, perfect candidate for Ellis Juan swap.

neagan

iTrader: (7)

I don't know how many times I've heard people tell me how much they wish they had their first car again. It usually comes down to having storage room. If you've got a place for it, GO FOR IT! She should be fairly realistic with a $500 price tag- I'd like to see her get more than that for a tranny issue car.... Heck; it never hurts to ask; all she can do is say 'no' and maybe come crying back later.
(just my unasked for 2 cents) Nitro

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the input guys, still waiting to hear back on what she's thinking $ wise.

Mostly aesthetics she's listed so far that are needing attention.
A lot of street parking so the body is no longer perfect, minor dings, front bumper pretty cracked, paint fading on the top and hood.
I'm almost scared to see it.

Something is clunking in the under-carriage even though she says she's replaced some motor mounts.
A/C no longer works.
Who knows what else.

Here's another pic from her glory days.
Look at that skinny punk.
I <3 COPS was in full effect in those days.
I'm about 20 here. wooo

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Damn man, you were skinny! I say buy it back at a decent price. What about the supra though?

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

What about the Supra? It's not going anywhere.
If I bought this back it would probably sit for a couple years.
Register it as a non-op. 3 cars, woo wee.

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

i think your starting to sound alot like me....

all these cars running or not...extra parts lyin around ahahah

i think that anyone here supports a pizza/beer meet and work on the new/old addition of the bird for an lsx swap or what not....

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

Do we have to wear gloves to work on Del's car?

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

i dont think so cause this is the hack car

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Haha, funny guys.

Yeah for this one I'll be willing to experiment more as it's not pristine.
Tools and storage will be my main obstacles.
Oh and money.
I figure I'll be satisfied with the GTA in about 2 years, this will give me something else to blow my $ on.

911rsq

man.....it's like reading my own thread...but b4 i bought it back. the one thing that i have found with buying a car BACK from someone is that they always want to sell it back to you for the same or close to the same money they sold it to you for, even tho they put 30,000 miles on it and never changed the oil and the tires spark going down the road because there's no rubber left on the tires, only cords.

here's my theory.....and imo a pretty good point of view cause i'm there.... if you loved the car then and just talking about getting it back gets you excited, then do it. make her an offer that is in your favor and see if she jumps for it. she already has a new car and probably paid this one off already, so a fair offer that's in favor may be accepted. i bought mine back and havent had the time yet to do anything to it yet....she's ugly and needs work and i STILL smile every time i see her. my time is coming soon to rebuild mine and i wish u luck on yours.... i'll be watching.

neagan

iTrader: (7)

You're going to get lot's and lot's of free advise on how to negotiate the buy back of your old car. None of us really know what the actual facts are, but I can share with you a secret weapon method that has worked several times in the past. (I've bought and sold over 100 cars so far).

The one person nailed it when they mentioned that a buyer selling something back to the original seller seems to be completely out of touch with ANY reality. What I'll suggest you try is only needed when someone needs a healthy dose of reality.

Do you know when she's planning on marketing the car?? and how?? What works well, is to have at least 3 other people make her a lowball offer, critizising and nit-picking the whole way, before you step in and politely offer a little higher of an offer. Or, since you hang with a bunch of 3rd gen enthusiasts, you could offer to put together a 'show and tell' sale for her where you bring to her several possible buyers at once and then do the big grumbling nit-picking low balling.
Without going into some great detail, this method is deeply rooted in psychological testing and statistics the minds that be utilized when they came up with the selling program of 'asking for the sale' a minimum of 3X to a customer (they've found that most sales personel will stop at asking to close the deal at the 2nd time) (thus the statistics that 10% of the sales force sells 90% of the company product.

One other thing that might help, since you've already got an established relationship with the seller, is to contact her and politely mention that you're short on current funds, but could she tell you off hand what she's thinking is the bottom cash offer she might take to do a deal right then and there? Technically, you're supposed to drop that in right after you verbally give her 3 or more compliments about her lifestyle, but you don't need a short course is Psychology and Sales.

Oh, about the Supra, I've had a couple: 1984 and 1988. The 83-85 wedge fastback shaped ones with the big wheel flares are one of my all time favorite vehicle designs. What kind is yours?

I personally love that stuff, although I don't like to actually rip people off. Again, I know this is unasked for advise and it should be treated as such, Nitro

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

I would die laughing if she asked anywhere near $4,000+ for this car.
It was worth it possibly at the time of purchase, but now it's a str8 project.

911rsq - I appreciate the advice, definitely crazy our similar stories.
I read your thread and was like, whaa? that's a sign.

Nitro - Crackin' me up with the psychoanalysis. If I was extremely worried, I'd be more tactical with my approach, but I just pretty much threw it out there that it's blue is less than 1K, probably not worth even that. ..still awaiting her response to what she'd take.
I have an '89 Supra Turbo btw, and yeh, it's a great DD, I love it.
Only gets 17-19mpg, but it will do the job for the next 2-3 years.

I did get this from her when she told me the problems thus far:

We'll see how it goes. I'll keep y'all posted.
I'm pretty sure it's meant to be as I'm turning 27 this coming Feb. 10 years since I bought her, definitely a sign to me.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

If you cared enough to come make a thread, you should buy it.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

Del, what day in feb again? we should have a joint party!

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Well yes of course I was leaning towards yes to start, but it always helps to hear others points of reason.
Perhaps there are some reasons why I shouldn't buy it back that I am not seeing.

I'm 2-18.
It might be too early in the year for a 3rd gen party, but that's highly possible.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

Mines 2-10

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Still finalizing the deal. ..but it appears she will be mine again, for $500.
Just need to find time to get down there.
It seems to drive OK, tranny slips rarely so it should make it back up here from Hollywood.

She's done quite a bit to it over the past couple years, maintenance wise.
- fuel pump
- water pump
- radiator
- hoses?
- serp. belt
- starter
- ignition coil
- fixed door hinges

Not that I'll be touching it for awhile, but what do you think would be some nice options for the motor/trans overhaul to keep in mind?
What else might be nice to drop in besides LSX/4L60E?
I don't want to drop a TON of $ into the motor, just a nice cruiser, but I've got to drop that 2.8.
I could keep the 700R4, rebuild it stronger. ..but what to match it up with. ..

I'll definitely gut the interior, replace everything from the carpet/seats/console, maybe put my digital dash in?

kairles

iTrader: (2)

LC3

4.4L supercharged Northstar
469hp @6400 RPM
439lbs-ft @3900 RPM


or you could always go with a GEN I, II, or III sbc

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

bah, LC3, that's too nice a motor for this 'bird.

I'd want to keep it decent, 300+hp range, and a complete motor to just drop in without too much hassle.
Maybe just a Gen I SBC, new GM?

I haven't read up much on what it takes for certain swaps as far as what's needed to mate up to the old stuff and what needs to go.
I know wiring harnesses are a grip, and the front end upgrades aren't cheap either, which makes me want to streer away from an LSX swap.
I've got nothing but time I guess to mull it over.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Just build a nice basic carbed gen I motor for it. No need to get fancy like you said.

kairles

iTrader: (2)

can't go carb if he plans to smog it, because its fuel injected. with a tbi or tpi he wouldn't have to ref it. ever think of doing the 3.4 swap?

neagan

iTrader: (7)

This might seem off the wall, but since you're planning on gutting the isides; have you thought about installing just one bucket type seat in back?? Then you could use the left over empty sides of it for building storage boxes or places to start slaming in the amps and other stereo paraphanalia.. Just a thought.... I'm planning on installing a small safe in mine.
Nitro

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

ls conversion would be your best bet...you can get a plug and play harness for about 600 with only wiring 4 wires than your gauges very small wiring.
motor mount adapters and setup your exhaust and you have your self 300hp and 30mpg

no need to get all fancy with it...maybe hawks longtubes

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

As mentioned above, smog legal is necessary and I want to keep the fuel injection.

I used to be a frequent poster on the V6 boards when I first got here, so I'm pretty familiar with the 2.8-3.4 swap that KED85 outlined.
A pretty good swap for a budget, but I'd have to bring the power goals down quite a bit.
I guess high 14's wouldn't be so bad, considering it's probably mid 16's now at best.

I always wanted to keep the 6 in it before and attempt to make it faster, but it's a struggle to get much out of it with out a lot of $ and then everyone gives you the. ."why didn't you put an 8 in it?" spiel.
They've progressed with turbo setups since those early days, but again, smog legal I'm not sure.

If I remember correctly it has 3.42 gears standard, but I'm not sure how durable.

neagan - interesting, but not likely. I'm not going to fill the interior with too much junk/stereo paraphernalia.

kairles

iTrader: (2)

you could us some N20 the fwd 2.8 got forged pistons and better aluminum heads

vindeezl

iTrader: (2)

Right on bro, definitely keep us posted here on how it goes, I think you got a great deal!

Post some pics of it when you arrive back home with it too. I wonder how it looks now vs. Deli Sandwich style cleanliness.

As for a motor swap, what about one of those 3.4 TDC motors?

911rsq

hahahaa....signs come in so many styles. My ol girl was a 2.8L and I've heard of guys getting pretty good power out of the 3.4L swaps, but I have by no means any expertice in that field.....none to be exact. Do you have any "before" pics of her? how about some "now" pics? I'm glad you got her talked down to a reasonable price, too bad she's turned into such a project. Good luck and keep us updated!

911rsq

P.S. If you are in fact thinking V8 swap...don't forget that your V6 trans wont work on the V8. Different input shafts...... Darn you Chevy!!!!!!!!!

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

911rsq - Yeah, the tranny is probably on it's way out anyways, so that's not a problem.
See post # 1 and # 8 in here for the before pics, that was her.
I'll take some recent pics when I get her back.

Terrell - Yeah I thot about N2O, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a Grand Prix or other 3.4 fwd out there.
I was pondering the 93-95 6's, but options are good.

I'm calling it a project, but I bet it's not in THAT bad of shape, just not up to my standards. I just want to make it my own again.

Cadillac

How can I help you pick up this car? I'm off all week.

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

the stand alone harness i was talking about is emissions legal its considered stock replacement.

http://www.howellefi.com/shop/custom...cat=253&page=2

with this harness theres 4 hook ups, starter, igntion switch, ground, and i forget the other but its very simple than you just run into the bulk head for your gauges

ls1 is your best beat cheapest, best power range, emissions compatable, and gas mileage

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

TTA engine

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Eric - Good info. I'll keep that site in mind.

Mike - That's super nice of you to offer, but I'm not sure how you could help.
She believes it will make the trip back up, so I pretty much need to have a buddy up here give me a ride down there and then I'll drive it back up.
Or I could probably take a 1-way flight to LAX for $50 or so.
It would cost about the same for the 2 tanks of gas to get down there and up.
----------
I wish, too rare and expensive to find those grand national motors.

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

if you want to pay for gas and a trailor rental we can tow it with my beast if youd like it will be about $300 in gas plus $50 for the trailor

when i went down there last time even up the hills that 5 mile or so incline she didnt even get a hint above 200degrees

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

yowsa.
I'm just going to hope it will make the drive up.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Well, she's mine again.

Just brought her home today from LA.
Made the trip up just fine.
Tranny is definitely slipping and it makes a clunking sound when put into reverse and D initially. Mounts maybe?
The exterior wasn't as bad as I had imagined, the interior is pretty beat though.
I've got some definite plans for it, but she will be parked for at least 1-2 years until I'm ready for all that.

Anyways, here's a couple pics.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Congrats, bet it brought back some old memories driving it huh. Are those black outs on the tailights? They look like they stick out from the center piece. Oh Del, 1 question, WHAT THE HELL IS ON THE GTA???

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

haha, it's just the car cover sitting on the hatch.

Yeah those are some GTS blackouts I had put on.
They would've looked flush if I used the center piece that came with them, but I wanted the PONTIAC and the bird to show.

Definitely a lot of memories.
I worked on that car a lot and replaced many a part.
It was funny to see the little imperfections I had tried to fix over the years.
Also very intimidating the amount of work it will need to meet my standards.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Ah you'll get it the way you want it. If you're not going to do anything with it for a year or 2 then you'll have a good plan laid out by the time you do start on it.
Glad it's just a car cover on it!
So it sounds like she didn't change anything on it since she bought then. Pretty cool that it's still in decent condition.
I'm thinking of do some blackouts on the Formula as I don't really like the tails on it now.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

I've got a set of them for the front/back of the GTA, but I'll wait till I paint it someday.

Yeah she didn't really change anything, she loved it just the way it was.
She just did maintenance items and of course repairs.
It's been almost 4 years since I sold it.

I'm lucky I have a buddy that has a big lot where I can store it.
I am going to try to hold off on buying any parts for at least that 1-2 years.
The basic plan is an LS1 and 4th gen interior, which can wait.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Ls1 sounds good, I'm not feelin the 4th gen interior but it's not my car. Are you doing the full interior or just a few things likeseats and console? I like the seats and console, just not the dash and door panels, doesn't go. Whatever you do I'm sure will be done with great attention to detail. Good luck and I'm always willing to help.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, much appreciated.

You guessed it, just 4th gen seats and console.

The rest will just be new 3rd gen stuff, carpet, dash, panels, etc.
I'm also going to try to make use of that digital dash I've had forever and swap out this old cluster with 193K on it, haha.

87tpi

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, the cluster is a good idea, you have it and you may as well use it. Glad to hear it's just seats and console, the rest is just too much for our cars. I've been going through Year one lately but everything indie the Formula is like new now. The 89 needed a few things but i guess it's not my problem now. What are you going to do with the suspension?

vindeezl

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a good plan Del, the old 'bird looks great still if you ask me.

I thought there was a mountain lion on top of the Silver Bullet too

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Haha.
Hella mountain lions in Citrus Heights.
Well, cougars at least.
(In slang usage, a cougar, or couger, is a sexually attractive woman over the age of 40 who pursues younger men, or in the case of lesbian cougars, younger women.)

Anyways, yeah the suspension / fuel / brakes will all have to go too.
I'm open to suggestions on all and will make note of it when the time comes.

If I remember right, the rear end is a 3.42 on the V6s, will have to recheck.
I don't remember what the stock suspension is, like sway bar sizes, but being the base model 'bird, it's all tiny stuff with lousy springs, no WS6, etc.
I only had changed the struts/shocks to KYB's.