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Well my 1985 IROC still sits in the garage, haven’t really driven it that much since 1990’s. About two years ago I got ambitious, spent some money to get it drivable...and now it sits yet again in the garage.
Anyone in the Mercer County, NJ area available to give a look and help decide it’s fate?
Where are you over by East/West Windsor? We usually hit up the rest stop on the turnpike by you (exit 8) because that is the only Roy Rogers/Nathans combination in this part of the state that we're aware of. If you need any help with the car just say the word... not too far from Tennant Road, so you're like twenty five minutes away
Looks clean. what does it need. what's keeping you from driving it or selling it (time, Money, storage, Health). If it was mine I would keep it and enjoy it.
Good guess Street Lethal...I am in West Windsor, NJ and will definitely meet up with you guys anytime (as long as the roads are dry).
Appreciate the compliments, and the replies. The car runs great, it sat for 10 years, just needed a few repairs to get her going again; frozen calipers, tires, fuel sending unit...
Why I ask, "What to do with my 85 IROC?" I am just unsure how much restoration to proceed with, money is always a factor, but I do love this car, as it was my high school car (1987). Hence, reaching out to the folks that can lend expert advice.
Fell in love with the car back in 1985 as we used to live in MI and attend IROC races at the Michigan International Speedway in Brooklyn, MI.
Here are a few pictures from back in the day at MIS.
I guess the question is what changes to the car would make you want to drive it more. When I have a car I like to drive I have trouble leaving it in the garage, can't wait for spring to get it out of storage. If I have a car that doesn't pull me into the drivers seat anymore , I either sell it or change something so that I really want to drive it again. Only you can tell what trips your Triger. The great thing about the car hobby is the huge spectrum of things we can do to/with our cars. So what would make you want go on a road trip or to week end car shows or the drag strip or autocrossing or just out for an ice cream cone twice a week??
For now I've decided to continue with restoring my ride to OEM best I can. Just ordered the rear disk brake lines from SSTUBES, since the last mechanic broke the one hard line (https://https://www.sstubes.com/coll...products/11765). Long story short, after I had to take it out of my parents garage, I sent it to a mechanic that was referred to me to give it a look over and repair for safe driving. Well unfortunately BIG mistake on my part, to say the least, got the car out of there before anymore shotty work could be performed. All good now, and as they say, "if you want something done right...you have to do it yourself."
Rob @@Street Lethal let me know when you guys are meeting up...
Rob @@Street Lethal let me know when you guys are meeting up...
I think the guys are trying to set something up for Atco Dragway soon once the weather gets more feasible. So tired of looking at snow. Wasn't sure what the track was planning on doing this year, but their website is still up and running for 2021, though no actual schedule of events. A lot of their action seems to be redirected from there over to PA in terms of specific events. Hopefully Atco will at least have test and tuning sessions. Once the weather gets warmer we can at least get some meets going again, hopefully in a few more weeks...
Came out great, well done, interior looks fantastic. Now all you need is an EBL Flash system, and a 2800-RPM stall speed converter, and I will make you never ever want to get off of the drivers seat again after tuning it for ya....
Came out great, well done, interior looks fantastic. Now all you need is an EBL Flash system, and a 2800-RPM stall speed converter, and I will make you never ever want to get off of the drivers seat again after tuning it for ya....
- Rob
Think I need to take ride and pay you a visit. I have no idea in which direction to take this car. That’s why I’m just fixing what doesn’t work, which isn’t much. Only mods I did in 1988 were stage II hyperchip, Edelbrock headers, high flo cat w/ borla exhaust (3in). Everything else is original.
You are definitely headed in the right direction with the car, a lot of members get caught up listening too much to other members who keep pushing LS swaps, or very expensive ECU control systems, when there is no need for any of that. The EBL Flash will make your Camaro feel like it is twenty to thirty years newer, and a stall speed will compliment your existing modifications. Now couple that with the right tune, and you will never want to stop driving the car. The beauty of the EBL Flash system too, is that if boost ever comes into play, its' got you covered. Also something to consider, is that the beauty of the EBL mod is that it can be undone and put back to stock anytime you want, no hacking of the car whatsoever as it plugs into your existing harness. Some of the wires may need to relocated, but that literally takes seconds to do. The Hypertech Chip was a decent option for back in the day, but it mainly changed your fan settings, and gave you slightly more timing, but still being restricted above 4500-RPM. But we'll change all of that if you go the EBL route...
Rob, definitely want to keep it simple and your suggestions sound good. Is there a specific EBL Flash system that you’re thinking so I can check it out (DynamicEFI)? I did do a search and read up on the EBL Flash II, but then there is the P4 version which I don’t think is needed but...
And if I really wanted to go the LS swap, that would be when my SAAB 97x AERO goes, before trading that in I’ll pull that 6.0L LS2 engine out 😉
Let me know when I can show you the car.
And lookee what I found tonight straightening up the garage, the Hypertech Power Chip Stage II which is presently in the car (the factory chip is in this box). Boy was I happy back then to boost my ride...circa1988.
Hypertech ThermoMaster Power Chips replace your stock PROM, which holds the settings for fuel flow and spark advance. This is a Stage 2 chip that optimizes the spark and fuel curves for max performance. The ThermoMaster Power Chip is designed for use with a 160 deg. thermostat and premium pump gas (91 Octane or better).
Now that is taking me back. Seriously, seeing that box instantly took me back to when I was a little kid. The days when the Third Gens, Fox Body's and Grand Nationals roamed the streets. Chips were the big deal because nobody knew a thing about editing hex, let alone having the software to do it yet. We tuned engines via fuel pressure back then, and clocking the distributor. Spark tables and reference were off of course by doing that, but most guys settled for the slight surge at idle for the increased timing. But then Hypertech came along, I remember when Summit Racing introduced them. Hell I remember when Summit Racing had the whole back of the catalog dedicated to Third Gens and Fox Body's only. So much fun back then...
For your application, the EBL Flash II with a few pin relocations. Would just need to confirm with Bob if all pin locations still need to be swapped when going from the '870 to '165 in relation with re-wiring the harness, as well as the splicing that is involved. Essentially because members switched from the '870 to '165 while maintaining Mass Air Flow, but the EBL system is Speed Density based, so there might be a few shortcuts. It's not as serious as it sounds, the majority of guys that ran '85 Corvette's and '85 Camaro's w/TPI that wanted data-logging and tuning capability did this due to the limitation of the '870 ECM's baud rate. Takes a few minutes to convert, and can also be put back to stock at any time, so if you go the EBL Flash II route be sure to keep that original '870 ECM along with all of its' components that work in tandem with it (MAF sensor, Relays, etc)...
Just wanted to thank you once again. I keep mentioning that I want to have you see the car because back in the day I did have an accident and have battle scares. This is one of the main reasons I am so hesitant to move forward with any costly upgrades. Here are a couple pictures of the passenger side interior fender area, inner wheel well, and near the firewall. Not happy with the welds, nor does it appear that they used any primers as you can see paint has come off.
Will share something with you. This was my old 305's final datalog, was running a stock Tuned Port Injection system w/stock 48mm throttle body. Ported stock iron heads, and Lunati Cam. This last run had the 30# injectors put back in because I gave this engine to my cousin after I data-logged it, and pulled it out of the bay soon after. The accuracy of the EBL system is seriously on point. I blacked out certain areas because that it was we tuners do lol, but overall you can see what the engine made in terms of power, as well as where.
* 255 grams per second is roughly 315 horsepower, she hit that at 5200-RPM.
* 30# Injectors at 66% Duty Cycle at 5200-RPM is roughly 315 horsepower (they correspond perfectly).
* INT/BLM locked at 128/128 in every conceivable RPM location whenever triggered.
* Note: I did not have my wideband directly connected to the system, but it was locked at 12.7 AFR during pull.
* Went from 900-RPM (idle) to 5200-RPM in a little over one second w/load (in gear). Tire spin? Ya think?
* kPa stood solidly at 100-kPa starting from 1000-RPM up to 6000-RPM, reminder... stock TPI system (ported)..
* Pulls to 6000-RPM insanely fast, but I capped RPM at 5200-RPM because rockers kept getting loose.
* At 6000-RPM she reached 85% Duty Cycle w/30# injectors, which is roughly 410 Horsepower.
.... and that is with Cometic Multilayer Gaskets at only 9:0.1 static compression. Now, I have since upgraded to a 434 SBC with a 4L60 transmission. But in the datalog below, I still had the 700R4 with stock stall speed, so MPH hit at around 1600-RPM. Regardless, the engine put you in your freaking seat for an anemic 305 SBC. When I had the TCI stall speed in there when it was turbo charged, the engine was an absolute animal at 15-psi.
You'll have to trust me and a few others on the turbo part though.
Just wanted to thank you once again. I keep mentioning that I want to have you see the car because back in the day I did have an accident and have battle scares. This is one of the main reasons I am so hesitant to move forward with any costly upgrades. Here are a couple pictures of the passenger side interior fender area, inner wheel well, and near the firewall. Not happy with the welds, nor does it appear that they used any primers as you can see paint has come off.
That's not bad at all. Could pull the fender and straighten out the frame if it needs it, and die grind their welds to make it look completely factory. It gives you an excellent excuse to Por-15 the bare frame, then paint over it with the correct paint. Other than that the AC box looks cracked where it bolts to the firewall, but you can grab a used replacement from Hawks for a good price. That damage is nothing at all. Back in the day we had to replace the entire radiator support on my old '84 Anniversary Trans Am before selling it (it rusted to the point where it couldn't be saved), and it looked factory when we were done...
I'm going to invite Tony to this thread, he's local to me, but more importantly, he's a die hard third gen guy, and a welder by trade. I don't let just anyone work on my projects, only people I trust, and who love these cars just as much as I do. You guys can meet up one day, then discuss what you want done. The A/C box, I could have sworn I had an extra one, but I'll have to keep looking for it. If I find it you can have it, I honestly don't need it. But if I don't come across it, Hawks is your best bet. I trust them as well as they too have a passion for our cars...
Trust is a BIG issue with me as well, have to be very careful these days as many just want to make a dollar. I am one who will go out a buy whatever tool I need to do it right. However, I am not able to verify the frame nor straighten it. I've pulled a few engines out in my lifetime, this 305 had a oil leak into the #8 cylinder. So out it came and went to the machine shop. Only honed out the cylinders...didn't do anything more. I wasted much of my time pulling my cousins in/out more than I wanted, but he always had issues or wanted to do something for it.
I can't thank you enough, appreciate the reference, as well as your support, knowledge, and yeah your generous offer for the A/C box cover. I did see that their are some of them available, was actually thinking of pulling mine out and reconstructing that damaged area with some fiberglass. Probably easier to purchase a new one though (low on the priority).
First is to make sure that side of the car is good, straight and strong. Only person I know is my wife's friend, her father owns a body shop, but that's in Connecticut.
@Street Lethal I have a question about the Throttle Valve detent cable. Can this be adjusted to control the shift points? I watch a few videos and articles on how to adjust, and well...I decided push the ‘D’ adjustment button, slide it all the way back toward the firewall, let the ‘D’ button go, turned the throttle body WOT and it only clicked once. Dumb dumb didn’t mark where it was to begin with...so I depressed the ‘D’ button again to feel where it actually is making contact with the shaft inside the transmission then let the ‘D’ button go. Then I decided to turn WOT, push the ‘D’ button, let off the 'D' button and close the throttle. Pressing the ‘D’ button once again, leaving it in idle position, it went to self positioning which I assume the spring pushes right up against the pin shaft. I really need to stop reading threads on this forum, and messing around with this car...but when driving it does hit hard at times.
For anyone else that may be interested, here is the relevant research I found to be good, with one being what I believe is incorrect. And if you attempt to adjust, MARK THE CURRENT LOCATION BEFOREHAND.
That detent cable can be a real pain in the neck to get right. But no, I definitely do not recommend setting the detent itself to control shift points. Ideally, the governor in the 700R4 transmission will control your shifting points. Here is a pdf file from Summit Racing for a TCI shift point adjustment kit for the 700R4;
I reached out to the member by me earlier this morning regarding the body work. Will also invite Bob to this thread to see if there is an easier way to adapt the '85 TPI ECM with the EBL Flash II, or if it needs to be full converted to the '165, followed by the EBL thereafter...
Heard from Bob over at Dynamic EFI, from what I just read the conversion is not difficult at all to do. If you need help with it, and if this is the route you'd like to pursue with the car, just say the word and I will help in any way that I can. Should take maybe an hour or so to do, this is including the re-pinning, re-wiring, and complete tuning...
Heard from Bob over at Dynamic EFI, from what I just read the conversion is not difficult at all to do. If you need help with it, and if this is the route you'd like to pursue with the car, just say the word and I will help in any way that I can. Should take maybe an hour or so to do, this is including the re-pinning, re-wiring, and complete tuning...
- Rob
Yeah Rob let’s do the EBL Flash-II, I think being able to tune this vehicle would be fantastic. And should any other upgrades come along in the future, this flexibility is going to pay for itself.
Also, what is the ideal operating temperature or what temperature are we going to set it to? The stage II chip kicks in at 160F, I’m burning a bit of fuel at present...wondering if running at this low temp is partly causing fuel consumption?
So, I’ll give Bob a call Monday and get it ordered. No rush, can do it anytime.
Building my cribs...they are turning out nice. Not sure how high I’ll go, but figured this is a good starting point. Like the picture in the background?
Also, what is the ideal operating temperature or what temperature are we going to set it to? The stage II chip kicks in at 160F, I’m burning a bit of fuel at present...wondering if running at this low temp is partly causing fuel consumption?
So, I’ll give Bob a call Monday and get it ordered. No rush, can do it anytime.
Thanks again!
Eric
Eric, the ideal temperature relies on your thermostat opening. So if say you're running a 185* thermostat, you will want your engine temperature between 190*F and 200*F. You'll want your oil to have a decent amount of viscosity, but not enough to restrict the engine from moving. Not to mention you don't want the oil to get too hot that it just waters down and pressure just drops.
The idea is to find a happy medium...
A couple of things to do ahead of time to nip it in the bud prior to receiving it. I strongly recommend you get your hands on a LT1 3 wire narrowband O2 sensor. You don't really need a wideband yet unless you want boost right away, then you can run both the narrowband and wideband together at the same time. Also, download the EBL Flash II program from the Dynamic EFI website, as well as Tuner Pro V5 (links below), this way I can get you familiar with it way ahead of time. I'm going to help you with the tune, but after I show you what to do, and why, you won't ever need anyone to help you with your tuning ever again...
Will look for the LT1 3 wire narrowband O2 sensor. I talked to Bob at Dynamic and ordered the EBL Flash-II, with EBL Flash PortMod option.
With regards to the temp, the thermostat should be a 160*F when I did the Hypertech Stage II. So, my question is do we want to raise this temperature, if so what temp so I can get the correct thermostat when we do the EBL?
In my honest opinion, 160* F is a little too low for a thermostat. I would stick with a 185* F thermostat, as this will help maintain a warmer temperature while driving (a 160* F thermostat will bring the temperature to 160* F if cold air hits the radiator regardless where the fan settings are, but the 185* thermostat will keep it locked at 185* either way). In theory, a colder temperature sounds more appealing, but that is only in reference to intake air temp, not coolant temp. This is why most "good" dyno operators will bring the engine close to 200* F during a pull, less oil resistance. However, if you want to stick with the 160* thermostat that is in there, it's just the matter of setting the fan settings to anything higher than that. Either way we will set your fan temperature setting to kick on at 200* F and kick off at 185* F, with your VE Learn parameter between 190* F and 200* F.
Will look for the LT1 3 wire narrowband O2 sensor. I talked to Bob at Dynamic and ordered the EBL Flash-II, with EBL Flash PortMod option...
I'm one of those tuners that will spend an hour just tuning a light off throttle because I want it perfect, seriously, so you'll need to have patience when I'm tuning an engine as any deviance from what we tell it to do is unacceptable lol. If I tell it no lower than 850-RPM upon return, then it better not go any lower than 850-RPM lol. I was tuning a light off throttle hit with the new engine this morning because the weather is finally getting better as I am sure you know, and she's sounding very healthy and has excellent manners. The noise you hear in the background is from a solid valve-train. She's gonna pull very hard even without any power adder for the time being.
Now, you're going to need a MAP sensor. I highly recommend you go with a 2-Bar or 3-Bar MAP sensor. Do not listen to anyone who throws the "less resolution" nonsense at you. I am still running a 3-Bar MAP sensor even though I am currently naturally aspirated, and the lack of resolution is anything but. So get your hands on a 2-Bar or 3-Bar for the future in case you go boosted down the road, so don't waste money on a 1-Bar MAP sensor because you never know what the future holds....
We'll be converting your Mass Air Flow Sensor to a Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor, so we'll be placing the existing MAF sensor with the original ECM to the side. I would recommend, if not a 3-Bar MAP sensor like I'm running, to go with a 2-Bar MAP sensor similarly found on the Grand National. Do not buy a MAP sensor bracket found on the 90-92 Speed Density systems, as they are selling for way too much lately due to their rarity. You can grab yourself an LG4 Baro Sensor bracket and convert it to work, and even place it in the same location (see pic);
The MAP pigtail for the harness is fine, but the MAP sensor (if you're going 3-Bar MAP), I purchased mine from Eric Marshall, mainly because I trust him and known him for years from the Turbo Buick boards... so I would recommend his.
EBL Flash II arrived yesterday, MAP sensor and pigtail ordered today. I was thinking to mount it on the firewall here unless that is too far away to get good readings. Do I need to order any vacuum lines/wires, or anything else? Let me know...and thank you 😊
I can't seem to find my wire pin remover, so we'll have to get our hands on one as I'd rather not go the paper clip route. You can honestly mount the MAP sensor wherever you'd prefer, I just hate using long vacuum line because then it becomes more and more prone to cracking and cutting. But then again you can run hard vacuum line in its' place to compensate. Already put together a starter bin for you, will just confirm the key areas when I know the rest of the details about the engine, despite a few bolt on's that I already know about ahead of time...
You da man! Send me a link of your missing wire pin removal tool and happy to buy it, least I can do.
I’ll go to Lowe’s or Home Depot and see what I can find for a mounting bracket, I’m pretty crafty, MacGyver like 😁 wish I had access to a 3D printer.
Everything is basically stock 305 5.0L TPI, Stage II chip, advanced at 8* iirc, 160* thermostat, Edelbrock headers to 3” highflow cat into borla exhaust.
Pulls pretty good, but I am sure you gonna make it really noice 🤩
Very clean car, looks fantastic. In my most Roy Scheider sounding voice, the scene when he first see's Jaws for the first time, and I am paraphrasing here while looking at the rear of the car knowing how well she's gonna run..."you're gonna need a bigger tire".
Dang #1 & #7 spark plugs are blocked by the Eldelbrock headers. Sometimes you have to make your own tools. Dremel cut spark plug socket to allow spark plug to fit in...Success is bitter sweet!
02-23-2021 | 06:14 PM
