jcisthechamp05

Alright so here is the question, I recently enrolled at lincoln tech institute and will be working towards a career in automotive, it seems though alot of people, mainly friends are telling me that soon cars will be able to diagnose themselves and ity'll be something anyone can do by just plugging into a computer, and all there going to come to you for is to switch the parts that come up wrong/broken. Now I know with the new obd-III coming out , that no-one know what is exactly goign to be going on with that, it could be a possibilty or if not that maybe the next. I was wondering what you guys felt? would it be worth it to pay all the money to go to lincoln tech and graduate? I have no doubt in my mind that I will put alot of hard work and studying into the program that I will come out of there as one of the top students, and by no doubt in my mind, I mean exactly that. So would it be worth it putting in all this hard work, and say maybe 10-15yrs down the line, it won't be such a good job anymore to where I would not be able to suppot a family/myself?
Let me know what you guys think on the subject.
Thanks John

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

IMO, NO.. I`ve been an auto tech 22 years and I have never seen it as slow as it has been, there has been a downward trend the last 7-9 years that I have seen dealers and privates not replacing techs and not hiring either, many small shops are failing. Leases, 100,000 mile warranties and just plain and simple well built cars have slimed down the need for good techs. Add up how much you`ll need to spend on tools and how long you`ll need to suffer with low pay while you gain experience and you will find that it will be a losing proposition. Do yourself a favor, get into a another limb of the auto industry.

87-Z28-350

I thought about going to Lincoln or UTI myself, but im worried that ill go to school to automotive repair to do what i love, but not make any money.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

As long as people keep buying cars, somebody will need to keep repairing them.

MrDude_1

fact is, you need to be SMART.

the days of the dumbass tech are dwindling... because shops cant afford to have the idiot parts monkey there anymore..

but if you are properly trained, are smart, and KNOW what you need to KNOW to and are able to APPLY KNOWLEGE and THINK for yourself.... then you will have a job, and you will make more money then techs of the past.



now, overall, there will be less techs. less small shops. less backyard fixits.... but the techs that are trained and employed are making BANK... the dealership still needs cars fixed... they need someone that knows how to fix technical things.


alot of the people doing it now will be fired. they wont be able to continue to pursue this career path in the coming years...
if you're as smart as you say you are, and you're willing to do what it takes, you can make alot of money.

Greg Shorty

It sounds as though you've got the passion and drive to reach the top of the pile!

Hard work, constant learning, and continued passion for the business will keep you equipped to succeed, but keep in mind that successful shops require the ability to change and adapt to an ever-changing automotive industry with relative quickness and sound financial decisions. A 'Mechanic on Duty' sign and a 2 lift shop will take years to build the reputation necessary for sustained growth unless it is based on a strong business plan and backed up with effective marketing. Almost looks as though a Business degree would be the first step to long term survival.

My advice (for what it's worth) is study hard, get the training , surround yourself with successful people, and help the rest of us put an end to the days of old when any "parts hanger" could open up a shop and make just enough money to keep the doors open and ruin the reputation of an entire industry.

Good techs are getting harder to find- remember supply and demand and if you're the best- there's always a demand!

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

^..all very sound advise, remember though, good tools will eat up 25% of that not so great income for the first 5-7 yrs and shop support is most important, I use an alldata system to reference all makes and models for specs and diagnostic procedures, it`s 400 a month to keep it running. My personal scan tool was 3,000 new and is 1,000 to update every year. It takes money to make it and without the proper knowledge or tools your dead in the water. Good Luck, hard work will pay off!

Experience.........you can only get it one day at a time.

Greg Shorty

these days alldata and diagnostic equipment are almost a given in the industry-- you should consider them the minimum requirement to keep up with "jiffie fix-it" next door. It WILL cost money to make money- but training and lots of it will pay for itself in the long run. Take the 5-7 yrs of not-so-great income and milk your employer for every bit of training he (i know- not PC) is willing to pay for and use that to market yourself until you reach the level in which you are happy/comfortable. It does not have to be owner, but the rewards for owning and running a sucessful business are almost unparalelled. (unfortunately, so are the headaches)

89rsragtop

It's true the skill sets needed to repair a car have and will keep changing. But.even when a car can tell you whats wrong, someone needs to fix it. If you keep up your knowledge you will be in demand. Every time I go to my mechanic he tries to hire me because I know how my LS1 works. And I am 51 years old! I use him because I often don't have time to do it myself. Anyway if cars are your passion go for it. It's a lucky man that gets out of bed and wants to go to work. Do what you love.
P.S. I do sales/tech at Bill Mitchell Hardcore racing. nuff said!

TurbomanKnight

I'm currently taking Auto Tech in High school. And I often wonder if I really want to dot his for a living. I mean, I have the desire to learn all I can. But I think of the Industry and how it's falling. Most of my teachers were Mechanics. three of them had their own shops and they told me they just werent making enough money. And that just bothers me. They would usually tell me to try to work for a dealer such as BMW cause thats where the money is at.

tompumped

iTrader: (3)

I didn't read what everyone else wrote, but please take this into consideration. Don't rush into Lincoln Tech, I went to their automotive program at Mahwah. There has to be much better programs out there. There wasn't half as much hands on as there should've been, and their job placement isn't as good as they make it out to be. When I graduated they told me that there was openings in New Jersey to work, yet there were many dealerships right by my house in Orange County. In my automatic transmission class, the teacher gave us answers rather than teach us, I guess it was easier for him. It costs 20 grand and if I was paying for it I would've dropped out, I didn't pay for it, and my parents didn't believe me that the program was ridiculously horrible, so I kept going rather than drop out. They would've expected me to drop out. I graduated with a 3.5, and I easily could've graduated with a 4.0. Like I said it was mostly book work, I was just too disgusted to do my best. I can't learn everything from a book. I have a friend that graduated with a 4.0 and he's working for BMW for a couple years now. I talked to him about 6 months ago, and he was still getting paid crap, I was amazed, it could be his ability, or they're taking advantage of him. LTI didn't even help him find a job, and he lived in Jersey.

I met quite a few older tech while job hunting or working that told me to get out of the field, and I haven't worked in the field for 6 months now, and it feels good. I worked for many shady people, many people rip customers off, or do shotty work. Last place I was at my manager was there for 42 years, and he almost totally convinced me to never think twice about getting another job being a tech, between that and my experiences working at independant shops I almost gave up. But I will try a dealership before I totally say screw that shiiit. That's just my experience it was bad, others really enjoy the field, and make a good living. I'm still not sure if I want to do it for the rest of my life.
I will definitely say spend the 20 grand somewhere else, if I had that money to build a quarter mile car, I would be living my dream right now drag racing. I would've also learned so much more than going there. There were also a lot of people from the city there that just didn't care to learn, and that also helps to make it worse.

Blkdth87

ANYONE WANTING TO BE A TECH, BE WARNED..... NOONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR A SMART TECHINCIAN, MOST DEALERSHIP WARRANTIES KILL TECHNICIANS SALARIES.... STAY IN SCHOOL AND BECOME SOMETHING THAT WILL MAKE YOU MONEY, KEEP CARS AS A HOBBY..... i wish i made that decision a while back. i feel for those gm techs that have to deal with that 100,000 mile warranty. i work for mercedes, and we are scrapping to make 40 hours in a week.

tompumped

iTrader: (3)

Forgot to mention my friend was a B tech when I last talked to him, making 12 dollars an hour, how can BMW pay so low. I think they're taking advantage of him.

metalhead212121

just to ad my $.02. I graduated from LTI (Union NJ) or "Tinker Tech" as I call it back in 2000. After I graduated from LTI I went to work at a local shop. I stayed there for 3 years (NOT the smartest move). I worked on a lot of older american cars. (Never saw A LOT of new car designs) After that I worked for a more upscale (overall) repair shop and worked on mostly forgein cars. (Learned a lot of profesionalizm there) I worked there for 2 years. After that I tried to get into a dealer but almost EVERY dealer either offered me NOTHING ($$$ wise) or didnt want to hire me because of the following reasons: no dealer experience.. no experience with front end alignment (both shops I worked at sent them out)... or other reasons I cant remember. Now I work in the parts department of a dealership. 5 years being a tech was enough for me. 15,000 dollars in tools.. sitting in my garage at home. Don't get me wrong I love cars and MAYBE if I ended up working at a dealer from the beginning things MIGHT be different for me. IF you're DEAD SET on being in this field for a living here are things to consider and look at:
~TRY to work at a NICE/CLEAN place. It may be all fun and games working at place that is dirty and people are sloppy but as years go by it wore me down mentally. Anybody with a nice car WILL most likely NOT go to your shop because of the atmosphere. (Birds of the feather flock together)
~Front end alignments suck.. period. So if you're gonna align something like a Benz or a Subaru with 4 wheel alignment TRY to work at a shop that has a newer alignment machine. OLDER alignment machines FORCE you to work on your knees.. THAT GETS OLD FAST!!
~Try to find out how the pay scale works WHERE EVER YOU GO! Some dealerships will give all the "gravy" (easy) work to the guys that have been there for years (get paid the most money) and the new guys will get stuck doing heater cores and stuff like that (sux *** jobs with shitty pay).
~Don't get sucked into the Mac/SnapOn guys hands.. If you're a tool ***** TRY to go on ebay and buy tools. My snap on guy hated me because he knew I bought stuff on ebay cheaper than what he sold it for.
~Depending on where you live look at the heating and A/C (if any) the shop has. I froze my a$$ off for 5 years AND suffered during the summers because of shitty situations like that.
~Get ready for acks and pains. Im gonna be 27 soon and Ive got A LOT of pain in my lower back. I couldnt PHYSICALLY picture myself doing this at 40(or worse.. 55). Id be working around with a cain....

Lastly I KNOW VERY WELL this isnt 3rd gen related but.... PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GET INTO THIS BUSINESS NEED TO SEE WHAT IVE (ALONG WITH OTHER PEOPLE) HAVE WRITTEN. NOBODY TOLD ME THESE HORROR STORIES WHEN I STARTED GETTING INTO THIS! If I could do this all over again Id probably still be in the business but I would have chose to work at different palces.. Good luck to any of you that purse this for a living..

Dan

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

^ well said Dan, I went thru the same pitfalls coming up thru the ranks, I was lucky to end up in a few nicer positions but I had my fair share of "holes" that I worked at, they make you feel less than what you are. I wanted to add to your description about the dealers, my experience showed me that if you start at a dealer that offers good benefits and atmosphere you can rise up to where the cream is at but it will take 15-20 yrs of eating crap to do it, no real security there anyhow, the owner could yank benefits or close the dealership at anytime. It`s better than a "hole" but there is a lot of back stabbing going on at the dealers right now, it`s dog eat dog.
If I had to do it over, I would work at getting a municipal position with a small to medium size city, work inside a union protected shop at least in this field, weather it`s teamsters, asfme, or whatever division you can get under. The protected benefits are what you really want to focus on this young, pension, HEALTH CARE, sick days,personal days,holidays, overtime and double time pay for overtime work and double time work, longevity rewards,clothing allowance, license fee, education and most of all SECURITY. imagine starting work at say 23 yrs and retiring at 53 with a FULL and secure package, benefits incl.

bowtiedude

I worked at dealerships in the 80's we used to used fix things.The whole environment changed to a "don't fix it replace it" envoronment and I learned to hate it. I quit working on cars, and went to heavy trucks. I worked for a major leasing co. In 2001 I went back to a dealership, I refused to resort to selling unneeded parts to make living. I never was a "let's see if this fixes it guy" and it seems to me that is a dealer environment in this day and age. I virtually never had any rework, when I fixed your car it was fixed, still that never seemed to matter. I finally got sick of that B/S. left and went to work for a smaller shop and back to class 8 trucks. This was always more to my liking. Never had any push, I got paid by the hour, and I didn't push anything out the door until it was done, and I made aout $4,500 more per year. If you insist on turning wrenches for a living consider heavy trucks leasing companies, and large trucking companies usually pay well. Trust me there is a time when you get tired of being dirty, wounded, and tired from standing on the concrete hours on end.I have already seen the technician die as I know it. So save your money go to a real college, get a real education, play cars in your own garage on your own time. Just my .02 take it as you may.

tompumped

iTrader: (3)

I want to thank you guys for the responses, it made me think. Even though I didn't start the thread. I'm more than likely going to get back into the field, I just have to decide where i'm going to go. If not a dealership than I will go and get a municipal job. I just have to decide if I want to go back into it, it is a tough job.
It's so true that working at a dirty shop gets to you mentally, it got to me, that's for damn sure.
Sorry for being so negative, but I tell it how it is. I didn't lie at all. I guess it must be upsetting to hear all the negative aspects, but do what you want. I got into it for the wrong reasons at first, I wanted to build myself a fast car. I eventually started to enjoy it, but it is a tough working at independant shops, especially shady ones. That's it for me, later.

jcisthechamp05

Update: I decided to go to lincoln tech, I've been there for about a week and it is just intro classes right now, teaching you different toold, and ways to measure and proper safety and all that. So far I like it and I'm really looking forward to going hands.


What is the way you were getting payed? salary or flat rate? and how long have you been a technician for?

I kind of disagree with you, I mean I respect what you're sayign alot and you have the experience/knowledge to back it up, btu from the researching I had been doing to make my decision, I had thought of it being the complete opposite. I think in those days it was more "mechanic" as in fixing mechanical components rather than now-a-days where there are "technicians", I realize some of you just might think it is a play of words, but you're literally plug in the car to a computer and go from there, it is all computers these days, and still searching for ways to make it even less mechanical (the more mechanical parts, the more possibilities of failure). And I think in the past, not you, but the shadyer type of mechanics didn't really have the diagnosing tools as there are today, and were just "lets give it a tune up first, see if it is fixed, and go from there". On another note though, how long have you been doing automotive repair for and are you still doing it?

Tom, I'm also shooting for a dealership job and want to get into one of their programs and see how well it goes, if not I want to also shoot to be a technician and fix patrol cars and what not (I'm not sure if that what municipal is? so I am also not sure what the job title of that is?) But I do know that there are great benefits with them and you retire at half pay, I've been trying to read up more about them ( I heard there was a paper called "the cheif" that has something to do with it) but I haven't looked into it alot. But my main goal is to get into a good dealership program when I graduate.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

municipal is a government of some sort, the us government, a state, a city, township or a village. I work on everything between a weed wacker to a packer truck (garbage truck) I mean everything...sod cutters,edgers,push mowers,kawasaki mules, cushman scooters, agricultural tractors, front loaders, dump trucks, salt trucks, street sweepers, leaf vacuums, plow trucks, cold patchers, side walk plows, police cars (complete installs) medic`s, fire engines, the list goes on and on.... if you can get into this your days will never be monotonous.

I control 90% of my time as to what I do during the day as well as making equipment purchases and keeping a parts room stocked for all of the normal maint. items. it`s a bit different than what you are looking for maybe, I attend monthly outings with other fleet managers, plant tours, and vendor sponsored events and I take in several conferences and products shows in a year.

EDIT: I guess this would fall into more of a "mechanic`s" position than a "technician`s"

freestylzz

I know too many certified mechanics working both in dealerships and small garages. Many of them that have been around for years say the business has gone downhill over the last few years. They all seem to say the '80's and early '90's were the time to make a killing, and if you punked off a customer, there were another 5 in line needing service real bad. Now alot of technicians (and dealerships) are virtually working for free to keep any customer they can. Things aren't what they used to be.

Wanting to become an auto mechanic? I'd say to strongly consider your other choices.

tompumped

iTrader: (3)

Good luck, but you will see in time that I only speak the truth. I have nothing to gain by saying what I said. Normally I would've said *** it, and let you see for yourself, but i'm not like that anymore, I try to help people sometimes.
If I knew before I went that they advertised on tv, I would've seriously considered not going. Why would they have to advertise on tv? How many colleges advertise on tv or automotive programs. I was close to going into the ford asset program before enrolling there. I never saw advertisements on tv for that, I wonder why?
I did learn a lot however working on my own car while going there, I had a nightmare taurus SHO with high mileage. It felt good to have a beater that was faster than my friends brand new SER spec V and others, that's priceless.

metalhead212121

jcisthechamp05~ outta curisiosity.. which LTI are you going too? Since Im from NJ you might be attending the same one I went to. And I SHOULD HAVE told you if you're dead set on going... go at night. Night classes vs. day classes I found out was better due to a more "mature" enviorment.

I thought about working for my town.. working on weed wackers.. police cars.. town trucks ect ect... My town offers great benifites ect ect.. The only reason I didnt send it an application was because IF something ever went to $hit working for them years down the road. You're screwed! Here's a short story.. the guy that worked as a mechanic/tech for my town worked there for about 5 to 10 years.. Nice guy.. pretty knowledgable about engines and whatnot... He was making around $50,000 a year plus benifits. He had a falling out with his boss and quit. He'll NEVER be able to go to work for another town and make $50,000 right off the bat. It just doesnt work that way.. (as far as I know). Everybody that works for the town starts out at the entry level pay salery (which is nothing) and works their way up.

Lastly.. I think one of the biggest things I forgot to say in my orginal post is about what people are willing and NOT willing to pay for. Take a good look around at the people you know that ARENT in TRADE profession (plumber, carpenter, electrican, ect). Ive noticed through the years a good number of these people want to have designer clothes, nice entertainment systems, take nice vacations, eat out a lot.. ect ect... these kind of people don't think twice at spending a ton of money on it. BUT when it comes to spending money on their vehicles its another story. I can't tell you how MANY times women have come to different places Ive worked at talking on their BRAND NEW cell phone.. wearing their DESIGNER SHADES.. carrying their Louie Vaton bag and complain that their bill for parts/service is just "too high." Basically my point is that people will spend tons of money of "toys" but when its comes to home repairs or car repairs its always "fix it with spending the least amount of money because I HAVE to be able to afford a certain kind of lifestyle. I just tell myself every day.. just a couple more years (meaning 20 years unfortuatly) and I'll be outta this business....

Dan

rwdtech

first off, i have to warn you, lincoln tech is a joke, i live in indiana and know many people who went there or are currently going there. they all hate it. i always get the "i didnt learn sh*t there" when i ask someone about it. i dont think ive ever gotten a positive review about lincoln tech. you might want to check out a local college in your area. i am in my last semester of Ivy Tech Community College in their automotive technology program. it is a local college and its great. about $1k a semester and the teachers really make sure u learn everything you need to know. in fact it was just rated as the best automotive technology school in indiana http://www.ivytech.edu/news/20070202-1.html

hopefully its not too late and you can still consider your options. if it is, just make sure you get the absolute best out of it. from what i hear, they will graduate you if you put in minimal effort just because you pay for the tuition. its what you make of it. keep in mind they wont teach u how to fix everything or be an efficient money making tech. they will only teach you how everything works and as much hands on stuff they can. you will get a lot of experience on the job. pay attention to all the OBD and electronics stuff, there are guys out there who make a LOT of money coming into the shop with a clean shirt and leaving with a clean shirt because they do the driveability and diagnostic stuff. thats something to keep in mind when you are doing tire rotations and sh*t on big trucks and its starting to wear your body. there is no demand for parts changers, there is however a demand for techs who understand the electronics and the OBDII+ aspects.

as far as OBDIII i cant see how they could possibly add anything to the on board computer that would aid in diagnistics. A computer cant diagnose a car, it can only point to what is wrong. its up to you to figure out why it happened and how to fix it. I think the only major thing with OBDIII will be satellite linking with the PCM so the govt knows if ur car is polluting or has a check engine light on, that way they can send you a notice so you have to get it fixed or you wont get your plates. i also think OBDIII will involve total vehicle emissions for example a leaking AC compressor. as far as engine, trans, and emissions monitors, its all pretty much been done and is currently in OBDII

and dont be worried about any changing technology, almost all shops (especially the new car dealerships) are willing to pay for you to update your training. i did a job shadow at the local toyota dealer a while back and a 50 year old guy was the ONLY tech for the hybrid cars. they were teaching him about carbureators back when he was in school! he gets training thru toyota every time they update their technology.

if you dont already, i would suggest getting a job working on cars...most likely it will be "oil changer and tire rotator" but it will still expose you to the field and u will know if u want to do it for a living.

lol LONG post, but if u have anything u want to ask me, PM me. i was in your situation at one time. good luck with everything

TurbomanKnight

Yesterday at school, a representative from Ohio Techincal College came and gave a presentation. I took some Broshures and contact info down. I'm really thinking about going to the Open House in Ohio on the 23rd. But I'm still not sure if I really want to follow the direction of a techinician. I want a career that I can count on to pay the bills and other expenses.

My father is a Diesel Mechanic. He's been with this company for over 20 years, and he's telling me to not become a mechanic and just do something else. I mean Automotive is all I really know and I cant see myself doing anything else for a living.

- Sam, Confused 16 Year Old with a Third Gen.

tompumped

iTrader: (3)

I have to say thank you for backing me up, I didn't even get into it. I didn't want to completely bash it in my first post. It seems that people wont believe you if you come outright and say just how horrible their program is. My parents didn't want to believe me until I brought over a few people that went to school with me to tell them. It wasn't worth 1/4 of what they charge. It's good to see more people that know the truth about that school, and they can spread the word. They should be put out of business for robbing people blind, they are scumbags.