bigals87z28

PLEASE, DO NOT THINK THIS IS THE CAMARO CONCEPT. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION AND READ THE FOLLOWING EDITORS NOTE UNDER THE PICTURE THANK YOU.



GMI Staff Member Marc Silverman (Rex Raider)'s rendition of the 2007 Camaro
Editors Note: Above Picture is simply an interpretation and is done with no more information about a new Camaro than is provided in this article. Please do not accept it as the actual design or a spy rendering of the actual car GM is designing

Click HERE for a larger picture.

Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.

Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.

Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.

GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.


If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.

Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!



basicly, this is the best thing Ive read in a long time. I have a mega huge hard on and Im crying with so much joy. I didnt think anywhere else would like this post, so I share it with my NE brothers and sisters!! Im so dam happy i cant even explain.

L98IROCZ89

I'm speechless...

89_305TransAm

Yeah

I think there forgetting about the 02 Trans Ams, WS6s, Firehawks, etc. I dunno what 02 camaro was faster then the 02 WS6? SS? Thats more or less in a class with the firehawk. Its a shame that whoever wrote that didnt give props to both fbodies, if anything. To me bringing back one without the other is just kinda wrong. I mean sure there was always the whole f-body/mustang thing, but back in the day there was also the firebird vs camaro TA vs Z28 thing going on. IMO the bird should be back when the camaro comes back. And if not the same day, then maybe a few months later, like it happened in 67.

But again, not to start a war.
Just my .02

bigals87z28

I belive the SS and TA were about the same in performance. It would be hard to see if one pulled out the victor time and time again. It would be a drivers race. With that out of the way, i belive that the bird is gone forever as long as the GTO is in production. And now that the GTO is almost 100% a sure bet on being an american grown car again, I wouldnt get my hopes up.

383backinblack

the driveline in an 02 SS and firehawk are basicly identical, with the exception of the taller ram air setup on the pontiac

L98IROCZ89

They are the same car with a different body which have marginally different weight, thus identical performance.

Subjectivly, they said the Camaro was the fastest ponycar at the end of its life becuase the article was specifically about the Camaro. Therefore, I think they were using the name Camaro loosley to reflect F-Body, but didn't say F-Body becuase there is no mention of bringing the Firebird/TA back. From a writer's point of view, adding the TA in at that point would be out of right field and make no sense.

We, being F-Body enthusiasts, know that the Firebird/TA/Firehawk is just as fast as any given Z28/SS.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

:shrug: i think it looks like ***.

i saw an ssr in person on saturday down at the neocc show at summit, and it looks like ***.

i do like the belair concept that has been shown.....

i really think gm has to start going on what the people want, instead of trying to design more rounded-off cars, and trendsetters; especially if they expect to sell 110,000 camaros a year.

i predict that gm loses sales to the new mustang.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

also.... i should lock this...

but

presuming you guys keep it clean, i'll let it stay.

deal?

91zconvt

I LOVE the idea of the camaro returning, but I dunno...Does anyone else look at that pic (At least the side of the car) and think Mustang? If I was to get a pic in my head of what the next gen. mustang would look like (not that retro crap) that's pretty much what it would look like to me, minus a few obvious things...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Thankfully that is not the next Camaro, just some1's concept. I knew all that about the Camaro returning but I sure hope that the Z28 is something alot better and not a mid model in the next Gen.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

reading through the post by al......

i have a magazine at work that details the holden plant and their flexibility....

simply put, it is amazing that they can build 20+ different vehicles (even a light truck) off of the same chassis

i wonder how much the car is going to cost......

ideas anyone?

again, as long as the thread is kept clean, i'll keep it open for discussion.

305 91camaroRS

i like the older models better. that one shouldnt even be made. i think make a camaro and trans am mix would be the thing to do but thats just my opinion.

bigals87z28

that pic is not what the camaro will look like. That is the Vahuxhal concept that was changed around for the article sake. The Vahux and camaro will be built off the same chassis. I figure GM will have many cars off this line. Possible cars off this line are endless... but ill name what i think you will see. GTO, Camaro, Impalla, Monte, GP, Bonnie, Park Ave, and Regal. Concepts could be and El Camino(just like the Ute) and Chevelle and perhaps Firebird. I really dont think the bird is coming back. Pontiac is trying to position itself to be just above Chevy in order. So a Highly optioned SS could be around the same as a mildly equiped GTO. How cool would it be for the GN to come back!! 3.8 turbo putting out 360hp!! that would be a great car for Buicks performance department. Probably will be more likely to see a 3.8 supercharged, but to call it a GN you must add the turbo.

I think mustang sales will drop signifigantly due to the retro design, but the mustang could prove the retro rules wrong. There is not one retro car that sells as good as it should out there. But look at the cars like the Camry, Accord, Taurus, and even the Element... They are bland and ugly, yet sell and sell well. How you ask? Cause the majority of people are bland. Us enthusiasts are way different then your average shmo or soccer mom. Cars need to be exciting and have meaning when the are on the street. It was all lost in the 70's and 80's. Screw climing insurance rates, gas crisis, and people like Ralph Nader for messing up a part of american past time, and killing a lifestyle. sorry, need to vent.

Back on topic. I think that if they make the camaro just like that, I will be in line for a Black SS with a 390hp LS2 and a 6spd. I hope T-Tops is an option. Welcome back GM... its about time. GM is really trying hard for this to happen. GTO, CTS-V, STS, Solstice, and recent concepts are starting to flood the gates at GM and they are getting the thumbs up.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

it would be very cool, but only if it's turbocharged. it would be dissing the GN name if it were supercharged.

it all comes down to how much they're going to price the new cars.... i seriously feel that price was a big factor in what stopped production of the 4thgens. i sure refuse to pay $25-30k for a car that i can't drive year round. i can't even remotely afford something like that anyway.

they should still offer the opportunity to order cars exactly how the buyer wants them.

ideally, if i were shopping for a new camaro.. i'd pick possibly an ss with this new LS2, with the six speed. i would get no power options at all. i'd probably spring for tilt wheel, and cruise control. depending on if they offered it, and how much, i'd go for t-tops. if t-tops weren't available, i'd order a/c.

just get basic cloth interior, and the base am/fm radio. i can install my own cd player. if they price my car around $20-22k (about what a 98 ss base price was) i'd consider buying one. i don't think that's too much to ask.

al, i don't think the taurus sells very well in the consumer market.... their big market is in fleet usage... namely, company cars. ford is getting stomped by the imports in the consumer market.

if general motors is going to take the crown again in consumer sales, they need cars with personality. people have to like the cars that they're seeing before they accept the different gimmicks.

TomP

Oh lord; looks like a freakin' Cadillac or something. Yep, I'll definately be buried in my 3rd gen...

So if that's just a rendition of facts, that means it's a drawing, and not an actual photo?

bigals87z28

That is NOT the next camaro. That is a picture rentiion of somene from GMI that belives the next gen camaro will take some traits of the SS concept. That picture is actual this


This car will share the same platform as the future camaro and GTO. Ill be in line if it looks like that concept. I think it looks very much like the next step in evolution for the camaro. No more retro, no more throw backs, no more anything like that. Take the next step GM and create something new. Im glad GM didnt fall into the same retro crap ford did.

Inwo

That just does NOT say "pony car" to me, it says family sedan...
I hope it doesn't look anything like that, it needs to be more aggressive and prettier, it looks like crap imo...

bigals87z28

The Opel car was a huge hit at the Frankfrut(sp?) auto show. Its not gunna look like that. Just NO RETRO!! Retro doesnt sell to well with the masses. Just imagine the next gen camaro is gunna have IRS!!! and be around 30k for a decent SS! I think GM's interior quality is picking up. If the camaro shares the platform with semi luxo and luxo cars... they will get a lot of parts added to there car for basicly no cost. Like the article said, it would cost more to put a 5spd auto in then th 6spd auto. Same goes with power windows, locks, and other nice things.
I cant wait for the
CTS-V
C6 and C6 Z06
STS-V
GTO
American GTO
and i cant wait for the Chrystlers LX RWD cars to hit the streets. This will light a fire under the **** of GM to get the VE platform to market.

ProjectMayhem

Good news indeed, but let's hope they tweak the design just a little before this thing comes out. We've all been waiting a while to see something cool with the Camaro name on it, it'd suck to end up with that Honda CRX with the Blazer front end bolted to it, like in the picture.

robertg

iTrader: (2)

i still say $30k is too much money. cap prices at $25k, put good interiors in them, they'll sell more than they can build.

Homer

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Robert. I think all new cars look like ***.

When Camaros (and Firebirds) first came out, they were cheap enough for kids in their teens and twenties to buy new. They were small for the time, didn't have a bunch of bells and whistles, just good engineering and some power. The car has slowly drifted away from that market segment and isn't going back. In this day and age, when a brand new car can be had for 10K, it's a tough sell for a youngster to cough up 25+.

From the description, it sounds more like a luxury car to me. It's going to be outfitted like one, it's going to cost like one, and people in the luxury car market are going to look down their noses at a "Camaro."

bigals87z28

I assure you that this camaro will not compete with luxo sports cars.... thats why gm has the vette.

30k isnt that bad considering that a fully loaded SS with teh 35th stripe junk and all this other crap fetched a good 35k. You could get a z28 with the 6.0 probably for 25 which is great, but not at what the target is. that z28 will be well ahead of whatever GT or any other car in the 20-30k market, unless ford plans on slapping SC's on everything....

Since the 70's i belive the fbody has become a "*******" car, and for this car to get super nice quality stuff for under 30k really isnt bad if you think about it. This car is gunna rock and I am sure that you will fall in love with it. How could push away GM's first attempt at getting back into the RWD world, not only in a performance world, but over all? Sorry fellas, but for 25-30k, you could get a world class car, for half the price of thoes "luxo" sports cars. How is this bad? They wana look down there noses... its gunna be looking about 14 bus lengths at my tail lights after that fool tries to run my in my '07 SS.
Your gunna get a luxo car for cheap price. I dont see the problem.
Im sure they will sell over 100k a year between 6cyl and V8 models.
Fbodies were always out of the reach of teens. 4k+ for a new SS 350 back in 67 was a lot fellas. No teenager had 4k for the car, and if they did they were lucky and were a small majority. Fbodies have always been a 20 to 30 something car. My dad got my Z at 33, so if Im able to buy one before im 30, i think GM has moved its target market down some. Plus, i dont want teenagers screwing up the image of the car by racing everything under the sun and killing themselves, therefor bringing up my dam insurance rate (i.e. just like it is now) What GM needs to do is aim for 20 to 30 soemthings so people will buy the car. Some peoples insurance payments are more then there car payments... .how do you expect people to buy you car when the monthly payment is 400 a month? Teens should look up to these cars to strive to attain such a great car one day. Thats what i do every day, hence completes the circle of life. sorry for the rant... just getting my views out.. im not flaming anyone.

91GunmetalRS

The reason that the sales on the 1998 and up were not as good because they needed a mid-grade engine the thirdgens sold well because you could get them how you wanted. You could have a 3.4 a 5.0 TBI/TPI or a 350TPI its sweet. The new one if designed to look good, should sell like crazy.

bigals87z28

Thats not 100% true. 93-97 cars sold well and they only had 2 engine choices...

thirdgens had a 2.8 and a 3.1... not a 3.4.
What i belive was the main part of killing the camaro is that the target market got crapped on after GM had the target market pay for more stuff when you orderd a v-8 model. I dont wish that the v-8 model should be a teenager car, but a 6cyl version should be... thats gunna be hard. To see if they can regain some sport compact ground with a hi-po 6 banger that will get people moving away from the SRT's, Si's and other imports and compacts that will gain some ground. 6 banger sales have always been the core part of the sales. without it... the whole line fails...as we can see with the 4th gens. Plus, more and more the people that were buying fbodies were enthusiasts which means that they eighter drove it 2 miles a day, or loaded it up with go-fast parts. No one got a camaro for just having a camaro. Hot Rod ran this whole thing about it last year. It was a very good article. Too bad hot rod is now Hot R*ce.

SHAGME

UGLY! I mean that is NOT a camaro. Its just like every otherPOS on the street today.

Red_Demon

The SS camaro i marginally slower than the WS6, but on the other hand the WS6 weigh's a little more, and handles a little worse, so when you take into account acceleration and turns and all that crazyness they perform just about the same..

Red_Demon

I'd blame the camaro/TA's fall on marketing. Ford dominated marketing in commercials and movies ect. Camaro's and TA's have never had many apperances, so they became the less appealing car to younger people.

L98IROCZ89

I read awhile ago that the 1998 and up F-Body's didn't sell for many reasons.

The first reason was that the price of a Z28/TA (middle of F-Body models camaro/Z28/ss, firebird/TA/ws6) was the same price as the top Mustang model (mustang/gt/COBRA). F-Bodies were designed to be a cheap performance car, and while bang for the buck is still kinda high, they weren't exactly cheap anymore. If you want an SS/WS6 you need to be prepared to spend possibly more than $30,000.

Also, the F-Bodies have no trunk or cargo space, while the Mustang does. I know pepopel that drive these cars are typically not worried about cargo space, but there are adults in this world who value things like that.

Yea, sure... the Z28, for example, is A LOT faster than the Mustang GT, and even faster than the Cobra, but people didn't care about the difference of a couple of tenths in the quarter mile when the Mustang offers a trunk and almost half the price.

I read all of this in some magazine... they even went as far as to say that they didn't agree with the reasoning, but that these were the reasons (or at least this is what I can recall). The price thing makes sense, and the trunk thing is just kind of like icing on the cake, or maybe the author was just digging to deep.

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

No more 5.7 liter/ 350 (yeah yeah i know its a 346 but you get the point)!!!!!

Kevin

bigals87z28

... PLEASE STOP THINKING THAT THIS IS THE NEW CAMARO!! READ THE NOTE PLEASE. THANK YOU!

robertg

iTrader: (2)

i agree with homer on the luxury car bit.

it sounds like they're going for the luxury car market. after seeing the ssr concept, i've about given up on gm. they ruin the look of the chevy truck line with the 2003 model (99-2002's looked just fine) they put crummy interiors in the f-bodies, and price them higher than hell.

i know a guy who bought a 2000 camaro in june of 2000, right after he graduated high school. it was a 3800, had the sport appearance package, t-tops, everything except leather. the car stickered at $27k. his car payment was $410 a month, full coverage was $425 a month. $825 a month to drive a cool car? he could afford the expense every month, but he got sick of the payments after 3 months.

forget that. i mean come on, what was the highest price for a 92 z28 when new. al's dad paid $16k for his 87 z28 way back when. a guy i know here in the area paid $11k for his 84 z28 way back when. the base price on my sport coupe in 1984 was $8 or $9k.when i was in high school, a friend picked up a 90 iroc. it stickered for just north of $19k when new.

when gm builds an "affordable" sports car that the masses can afford, let me know.

91GTABird

I know imports are not the subject, but its my principle thats gonna mean something.........This is my perspection of where the car industry is going now days....listed here...

1) Malibu-RWD V8--------> FWD V6
2) Impala-RWD V8------->FWD V6
3) Mazda RX-7-2 door w/turbo option----->RX-8 4 door w/o turbo option
3) Nissan 300zx w/twin turbo option--->350z w/o turbo option
4)Mitsubishi Eclipse w/turbo otion, AWD option---->Eclipse w/o turbo option, w/o AWD option
And theres prolly many more examples.

But whats next? Base model camaro (claims it isnt possible) 4-cylinder FWD, or high-performance model "Z29" V-6 FWD w/AutoStick option or maybe the "rant and raved" paddle shifter?
Whooooo-Hooooo!

Im not trying to prove anything to anyone, but just trying to give a point of view of the way car manf. industrys are thinking today. I know some may dissagree and some may agree but thats why we have post to "post" our thoughts. If any knows plase tell me why thy dont give the people some concepts and let them decide instead of the people who will prolly never buy it or even drive it? But no matter what it looks like or how fast or slow it is SomeonE will buy it.They bought the Honda Element!

bigals87z28

you dont seem to inept at what the world is doing right now. Most if not all car companies are moving away from FWD and going to RWD or AWD. Chrystler is getting a new RWD platform coming up next year. It will replace all existing "cab foward" cars they have now.
Bob Lutz has said to be the last remaining car guy in detroit... and hes on GM's side. Hes brought a lot of enthusiasim twards speed and looks. Lutz's work is just being seen now in the CTS-V, the new GTO, and the Solstice concept. You have to have faith guys. GM cant be following compaines anymore. They need to lead the way to tomorrow with new technology and cars that make people beg for more. RWD and AWD cars are the future. Righ tnow, in Austrailia, they have a cross over wagon that is AWD and has an LS1 inside it. The chances of that car coming here on the new VE platform is very great. the RWD chassis is coming to the US and im 99% sure that an affordable performance car will be one the list as one of the cars to be built off the platform. Weither is a Camaro, chevelle, or something new... all i want is a nice fast RWD car for around 27k. It will happen.

okfoz

Just a note to all of you,

I happen to be in close contact with an author over in England who seems to know quite a bit about the new platform that we are seeing with the new Pontiac GTO and the Holden Monaro.
If you get a chance, go to Holens Web site and check out the Monaro, its IDENTICAL to the GTO except for the Grill, its really no secret we all know its made in Australia...

The (yet to be released) GTO platform happens to be a rather old platform, from the late 80's and is quite heavy, Its currently called the Omega Platform and is used by Holden and Opel. If what the article stated is at all true, then a lighter platform will indeed be needed to comete with EPA standards for Fuel Economy. It also happens that the Cadillac Catera (which was made by Opel) was placed on the same platform as the GTO. My cousin who used to work for GM has gone over to Germany to work with Opel on the platform, he was not impressed at the time, and is disapointed that the GTO will be made on this platform.

It is my prayer that the next Generation "Camaro" or Firebird, will indeed reappear. But in the event that it does not, then the value of our cars being f-bodies should increase, much like the afore mentioned "Chevelle"

John

bigals87z28

Hey John...thats all old news buddy!!!

the new world wide platform will be based off the CTS platform. The Omega platform is what is under all of Holdens cars, the Catera, and the new gto. The GTO is strait from Austraila as they are making the new GTO as I type.(only difference is US emissions and safty and HP upgraceds among other things) The new GTO is arriving at dealerships by Dec.(The first shippment is alreayd sold out, and you wont be able to get a GTO till january now). The next generation RWD chassis is being developed by Holden because the CTS platform we have now is too expensive. Holden will moddify the chassis and make it more affordable to produce a large amount of cars off one platform. This VE platform could be the base for a whole new car revolution in GM.

strokedtpi

i hope they make it perdier

okfoz

Al,
You forgot to mention the explosive Lotus/Vauxhall Carlton...

I figured some of you already knew this, and really it does not matter a whole lot. Just thought I would mention it.

John

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

All I can say is..third gen till I die! (Or they all rot away... whatever happens first )

bigals87z28

if i wasnt on probation, Id post some pics of other 5th gen concepts... but most are retro. Retro will not cut it at all so get it out of your minds. Maybe heritage but not retro design.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I didn't read evey response but here is my take

that concept is *** ugly...I wouldn't dare step foot in it

GM doesn't excite me anymore...sure they have the CTS-V coming and a few other cars but nothing to challenge the Cobra(I'll laugh at anyone that thinks the GTO stands a chance).

Wow the Impala SS, whoopty doo, a supercharged 3.8(great motor) but with a price tag of damn near $30K you can keep it....

I will always be GM loyal but I'm not very excited about what they coming out with based on their prices.

Goumba T

I think they both look like crap. The retro look of the '99 Mustang was cool. Not too wild. But with the '05(?) they're trying to go too retro. If Ford toned it down a little GM could lose me.

On the same note GM is trying to go too modern. You can obviously see that rendering is based on a Cadillac. I want something that looks agressive, not that looks like I'm in my 50's and having a midlife crisis, but couldn't afford a decent Cadillac. And I sincrerely hope that in the end it doesn't look anything close to the GTO. Yech. If it keeps going like this, I think GM will be the first to introduce to us a car that looks straight out of the Jetsons.

bigals87z28

ok in response to the last to posts about the look of the camaro... Im gunna assume none of you read the gaint 10 size font disclamier I put up... That is NOT the camaro, but a rendition based off a car made for Opel. The next gen camaro and GTO will use this platform. You guys should really read the information. And the new GTO is actualy a bad *** car. the 350hp is way underrated as usual. A recent mag review said the car pulls to the red in all gears... ALL 6 gears, something 4th gens never did. I think the GTO will give the Cobra a run for its money. The Cobra is just a tad easier to mod.

A lot of you guys are way to picky. Its too modern, its to retro... well wtf do you want it to be??? a boring civic? GM is pulling profit while ford is tip towing out of the red ink. I think GM is heading twards the right direction. Chevy is lacking and for the first time, they have gone so long without any touch ups. Pontiac is getting all new this and that.. .Caddy is taking up most of the time, Saab gets a new WRX based car, and Buick is getting great review which is making GM take a second look at Buick. GM is redeveloping all its bases while Ford is letting there cars fall apart. Yeah.. they have a bad *** cobra and a sweet lightning coming out and a new mustang on deck.. but what about the core that keeps ford going? Merc is falling behind and looks to be phazed out. Ford is not progressing and looking twards the future. Its relying on the new F series to pull the crippling company.

You really have to read the article following the picture instead of jumping to conlusions about a car that doesnt even really exist. This was posted more to give some insight into what GM is doing about bringing back true RWD performance using quality chassis and parts! Enuff negitive stuff. 400hp SS Camaro's with great build quality and over all quality... what more could you want?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I KNOW that wasn't the camaro..I was just commenting on that it looks like total *** and if GM is gonna build their cars with that design in mind I'll go buy a freakin Benz.

Sure it's great GM is going back to RWD, I applaud them...but at what cost? LOL. 30K for an Impala, UM NO....even the Grand Prix is getting up there in price...sorry but I would NEVER EVER spend $30K+ on a GM unless it's the CTS-V..GM has NOTHING on the German built cars.

The GTO is nice but I'd buy a Cobra over it anyday of the week..easier to mod..factory power adders are the best bang for the buck.

GM IS taking a step in the right direction but their prices aren't...I don't know...I know prices go up with time but some of their pricelines are a bit high.

Goumba T

Its gotta look good too. If its got 400hp and great build quality but looks anything like the rendering or the GTO, I won't touch it.

I did say in my original post that I realized the pic was only a rendering. However the article says styling will be similar to other upcoming models.

And it kinda looks better too. Im not too big on the totally retro look like the Thunderbird (If I go retro I'm going the real thing, like a '67 RS/SS), but at least the '99-up lost some of the curves we see so much in newer cars.

CanadianCamaro

After reading that article I know I won't be buying a new F-body. The price is way too far out of my price range (I'm right in the middle of their target audience). I don't like the idea of options being included in the base price. Power Windows, Locks etc aren't needed or wanted here. I also would love it if there was a radio delete option, but I know that's something we're NEVER going to have again as an option... car manufacturers have too much $$ to lose by offering radio delete.

I'll wait for the 5th gen to come out & hopefully the 4th gen prices will come down even more as those people upgrade.

blackgold84

iTrader: (1)

imo, that picture shown is trash!
if they want to "bring it back" then they must be doing so for people that like camaros, if you have driven and admired camaros i can see no styling remblanse to any other camaro in the concept, simply put its took far off what we might expect and its trash, regardless of any cool powertrain packages if we look dumb in the dumb looking car we aint buying it, the gto only looks ok,

imo a f body HAS to bo low, sleek, flat, long for its class, and as wide as possible, any body know what theyd like to see,

i dont know about any one else but i love the 4th gens how they moved the windsheild up so it would be flater thus bigger and more areo dynamic, the look that creates is just very pleasing to me, the hatch was some kinda act of ***, it looks like an orgasm, but it has problem, but it looks great, they door while they are clumsy are the coolest i have ever used/seen, other than the caddy suicide doors from the 60's, mmmmmm.

i hope they dont try and ue crappy "modern interiors" i have seen many and they are down right gross, one example, go sit in a brand new 4 door accord, you will most likely vomit, every thing on the inside looks like dead animal flesh that is rotting, not really but its gross.

just my 2 cents

and since im paying here is my brother two cents as well, hehehehe

"well now, that looks disgusting, what the car designers are thinking of these days, and also smoking.....i am not sure. but MY how they can think of things that look bad. i realize that that ain't gonna be the real thing, but come on. i think that their need to be some classic looks thrown in, but not over done, like that new mustang piece. but anywho, i think some one up in GM should let people like y'all, TRUE DIEHARD car men, design the next beautiful f-body. it's be bold and i think that it'd look b!tch!n."

CaysE

You know, I read some info about the upcoming retro Mustang, and its top model is rumored to have a supercharged DOHC v8 (not sure on the size... probably 5.8). The upcoming Monte Carlo SS is going to be supercharged... maybe we'll see the first Camaro with forced induction out of the factory?

PETE

iTrader: (1)

Let me say this loud and clear. I WANT A FI factory motor! Keep all the bells and whistles and give me a good set of forged rods,pistons,and a steel crank with a power adder and I'd buy it(providing it looked decent enough to not look like a fool in AKA Aztec)




GM WE WANT POWER ADDERS FROM THE FACTORY!!!!!!!!!!!

On a side note I'd like a trunk also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CaysE

You have a TTA?!?!? YOU LUCKY SONOFAY&@)(#%H!!! ahem.... anyway, the new Monte Carlo SS and Impala SS are both coming out of the factory supercharged next year. I'm hoping Chevy smartens up and puts it on the SS Camaro.

bigals87z28

Id rather go with a 500hp 6.4L N/A motor then a 400hp blown motor. Im not a big fan of factory power adders. Its more a band aid then anything else in my mind.

John Colleti-"GAD DAM... every year beat by the fbodies... no matter what... we need something to fix this"
SVT Team- "Bigger engine?"
JC- "nah... that would cost to much"
SVT- "well we need a quick fix instead"
JC-"How bout a blower for 03!!"
SVT- "YEAH!"


500 n/a > 400hp FI. Blower as an option from the dealer... not factory. Id rather drive in style and with 500hp n/a.

Build quality is what is gunna sell this car. The car has to grab attention from people wanting to by the stang. not all people want the camaro cause it has a better engine... its because it looks better. Looks are everything now. Look inside any new car and there interior quality is increasing by leaps and bounds. Look at allthe sports cars from 20-30k. The Camaro needs to keep ahead of all of them. G35 and 350 Z are gunna be in the fray this time around. They are both quality cars and the Camaro and GTO are gunna be in this price range for sports cars. the SS needs to go back what it ment. Performance and style. How cheap do you guys want this car to be? this isnt 1988 anymroe guys? It will be 2007 and 25k for a Z28 with 350hp+ is fantastic. 25-30k for a performance car is where its gunna be at. I dont see the problem with the price. But as usual, the 6cyl needs to sell and be the core of the sales of this car. If GM needs to sell 100k of them... 60k needs to be 6 banges at least. And the only way thats gunna happen is if hte car looks way better then it did int he 4th gen. in the 4th gen, the camaro was more of an enthusiast car then a everyday car. People who have it now dont use it for a daily driver anymore as they did back in the first and 2nd gen along with 3rd gens... 4th gens are more kept for performance; kept in garages and moddified. 5th gen needs to be a great all around car. Looks: in and out, performance from 6 to 8 cyl motors, and backing by GM's High Performance group.