LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Don y pipe looks great. Can I get the passenger side of the y pipe with the 3 1/2 outlet without the pipe that goes under the pan to the driver side? That way all my exhaust guy would have to do is fab up the driver side pipe? I think that would be easiest.

creepingdeath

I heard the exhuast ports should be a bit smaller than the header ports for turbulance reasons it causes little swirls around the ports and makes vacuum pulling the air into the headers. Bet you can't wait to fire er up eh!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I haven't worked on the car in weeks. It's been to damn cold. I did order the rocker arms, harmonic balancer, FP regulator and some other small parts. I think it's suppose to warm up this week. I hope so.

camaroboricua

The whole serpentine set up will work with tall valve covers. The A/C will clear with no problems and the alternator I just shortened the bolt with my dremel. Just make sure you disconnect the positive whenever you take off that side.

ssean92

iTrader: (10)

look really noce. I am thinking about doingthe K member also. I think you just talked me into it after seeing this

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Well it wasn't as cold these past two days I've been off so I worked on the car. I got the harmonic balancer on, I went with a Pioneer Race balancer.

Put the rockers on, got them adjusted.



Put the serpentine setup on it and did a bunch of wiring. It's starting to look like an engine again.



I still don't know about the valve covers. The stud on the back of the alternator is still hitting. I don't really want to use the centerbolt valve covers.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Well it's almost done. I need a starter and thats about it. I am concerned about one of the rocker arms. It seems be angled more than the others. You can tell by the previous pic that all the rockers seem to tilt outwards a little bit. I have loosened all the studs and moved the guide plate to center the rockers up the best I can.



The #2 cylinder intake rocker arm seems angled a little much. It's pretty much centered on the valve. I have moved the guide plate over as far as I can. I can't move it anymore because the pushrod is hitting the intake runner.





Should I take the intake off and grind on the outside of the runner to get the rocker alinged? I have no idea how thick that wall is. I really don't want to grind on it. I guess I am going to call AFR tomorrow and see what they think.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I ran into more problems tonight.

When I had the engine running before I was using a mini starter w/ staggered bolt pattern. It would work fine for a while but would always work itself loose. I thought that I had the wrong starter. I bought a starter for a 95 Z28 thinking it was the correct one. Wrong.

After doing a lot of searching tonight I have found out this.

The 400's use a 14in flywheel. The later model engines use a 12 3/4 flywheel.

The newer model engines use a straight across bolt pattern as the 400 uses a staggered bolt pattern.

The mini style starter I have is obviously used on a 400 because the center line, where the bendix is, is further away from the center of the engine than the 95 starter is.

I have a starter that will work, it just keeps coming loose. I am trying to figure out if I should just brace the rear of the starter some how.

There's several really good thread's on this.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ht=starter+400

This seems to be the best one. I will post some pics later.

Ward

iTrader: (1)

I remember reading somewhere that a 454 flexplate is the same as a 400 flexplate. I don't know if this applies to late model 454's, but it might be worth looking into. Maybe a flexplate from a 90s GM truck, which would have come with the 4L80-E trans, and possibly the smaller 153 tooth wheel. Again, I'm not sure it would work, maybe someone else here knows for sure.

Edit: nevermind, I thought you were wanting to use the 400 starter and find a flexplate.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

It's been a while since I have posted. I ordered the y pipe without the driver side tube. I dropped the car off at the exhaust shop today. He is going to route the driver side tube around the moroso pan and hook up the mufflex.



I hope I fixed my starter problem. The starter that I used before worked ok but the bolts would work loose eventually. A friend of my brother in law's has a machine shop. He bored out the bolt holes and put 3/8 sleeves in. I bought some 4 1/2 grade 8 bolts. I got them tight, I hope this takes care of it.

After trying to decide what fan setup to use. I decided on the SPAL dual 12in w/ shroud. There's several people on the TGO board using the dual 11in setup. The 12in pulls over 3000 cfm. I am still going to have to mount it. We will see how that goes. I ordered it from http://www.jaycorptech.com/

I emailed them last night and said I needed it buy this weekend. They emailed me back this morning and got me what I needed. He also told me the mount kit that I ordered wouldn't work and I need a different one.

I hope to have it running Sunday. I have to rebuild the carb and run the fuel lines and hook up the fan.



We will see.

Kevman

Wow, this is looking awesome!

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

I was contemplating using the stock style belts, don't you hate having to run 2 pullies that do nothing?

I went with V-belts, but I am eventually going over to some sort of MACH setup. The non-polished powder coated stuff is finally getting to be sorta affordable.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I got my car back from the exhaust shop today. I am thrilled. It turned out better than I was expecting. The guy does awesome work.

He finished up the y pipe and hooked up the mufflex. He added some band clamps, I can't remember that brand he said.

Here are some pic's:

Driver side header





Passenger side





Y pipe



Mufflex

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

looks great!

CG_1985_Z28

wow, thats lookin really tight, great job man

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Yeah the march stuff is expensive. I might take the front brackets off and paint them. They oxidize so bad and look horrible. The air gap intake has done the same thing.

I ran the v belt setup before with just an alternator and PS. I had the serpentine setup from the 305TBI I took off. I am going to try and use A/C.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

that y-pipe turned out fantastic. it's amazing how much room you got under there with that k-member...this MUST be on my list of things to do this next year, lol!

speed88

That is exactly what I had in mind for my GTA. I lost room for a y-pipe when I dropped in the 383 with the bigger Moroso pan. I knew a tubular k-member woudl free up alot of room. Thanks for posting the pictures, I am going to show these to my exhaust shop when I bring the car over!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

The guy that did the exhaust was impressed by how much more room there was. I had to wait a long time for the k member but ended up being ok because of how long it took me to get the car together.

I just hope that this k member is strong enough for the street like Spohn says it is. There's a lot of people who say it's a bad idea because the k member isn't strong enough. The car isn't a daily driver but will be driven on the street.

AC

iTrader: (3)

LilJayV10, what's the black gunk around the slip fits of your over axle pipe? Im having some issues with my mufflex 4" and that stuff looks like it might work!!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

It's some sort of sealant the exhaust guy uses. He uses it on all connections I think. Other than that I don't know what it is.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

We worked on the car yesterday. My wife, her brother and her dad helped. I think between her brother and dad they could fabricate anything.

Where the transcooler lines were before, the condenser couldn't sit back like we wanted it. After talking a simple answer of drilling two holes in the front support, use some gromments and run them through.


Condenser


Radiator


Mounts(till I can get a piece of aluminum bent


The wife working on the fuel lines


She did a good job




The SPAL fans are awesome. I don't have any pics of them right now. They cover the entire radiator. If the fans were 1/4 inch bigger in any direction they wouldn't work. I think I am happier about that than anything. They are suppose to move 3000cfm of air. I will get pics of that soon.

We got everything together and tried to start it. The starter would turn the engine over about one revolution then kick out and spin. I had problems with it before. I don't know what brand it is or if it's the right kind.

After doing some searching on here I found a good post that said you can't run a 400 starter with a 700R4 because of the flywheel diameter and the shape of the bell housing. The post was about 6 years old. The way to fix it is to use a 153 tooth flywheel and have the block drilled for an inline bolt starter.

I found in Summit today that they make a starter, staggered bolt pattern for the 168 tooth flywheel with no nose cone. I ordered one and I hope it will work.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

A friend of mine who works at Auto Zone pulled a starter for a 98 Chevy truck. That year of truck uses a 168 tooth flywheel and a staggered bolt pattern. I am going to compare the starters when I get them and hopefully get it fixed.

The car is ready to run. I think my wife was more mad last night than I was. I told her thats the way it goes.

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

Looks sweet dude, don't know how I missed this thread before. Awesome build!

karl's-92'-z28

iTrader: (5)

How much to hire your wife &her family to do my car....hahaha j/k. Car is looking sweet, when you get a vid of it running post it so we can hear how that exhuast sounds.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Well it runs,





I am on my way to work so I don't have much time. Thought I'd post those two links.

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

That thing sounds like a beast!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

My brother in law called me today to come over and start it. He said the car had been calling to him all day to start it.

I couldn't use the Summit starter I bought. The way the starter is made, the solenoid part hits the collector on the headers. There was no way it was going to work. So it goes back to Summit.

A friend of mine who is the manager at the local Auto Zone said he found a starter of a 98 Chevy truck that he thought would fit. He compared it to a stock 400 starter and it looked identical. In 98 they went back to a 168 tooth flywheel and a staggered bolt pattern. Thats just what I needed!!!!

I called him after I found the Summit starter wouldn't work to bring me the truck starter. He showed up with it and it was the EXACT same starter that I had on the car the last time it was together. I didn't feel that great about putting it on, the last one didn't work, why would this one?

Earlier I was bolting up the torque converter to the flywheel. The T/C was about 1/2 inch from the flywheel. I figured it hadn't pulled up all the way. I put some bolts in it and started tightening it down. It just didn't look right. I started to put the last bolt in and noticed the flywheel was bent. I think the snout on the T/C is to big to fit inside the hole in the rear of the flywheel. I unbolted the T/C so the flywheel would be in the right spot. Bolted up the new starter and BAMMMM it turned over. No grinding or anything.

When I had it together before, I guess I never noticed the flywheel being pulled towards the T/C. That explains all of my starter problems. The flywheel was pulled back at an angle. I must have messed up my old starter because it wouldn't work at all. The new one works great. This means I have to pull the trans out and probably have the T/C snout machined. It's a small price to pay to fix a problem I could never figure out before.

My brother in law finished the mounts for the radiator and fans. This is the SPAL fan setup I am using.




I got the correct plug ins for the fan's today. I am going to wire them and the relays in tomorrow.

I am going to have to change thermostat housings to the early style which puts the radiator hose straight towards the front of the car. The angle one I have on it now goes right into the alternator and isn't going to work.

Hopefully in the next week it will be on the road.

I appreciate everyones interest. It's not the most high budget build but I have had a lot of fun with it and it's taken I long time.

Jason

88TPI406GTA

Nice work LilJay...

Why did you decide to ditch your Proaction heads? I am curious as I have the same heads on my 406..but haven't had the time/funds to install it in a car yet. I have had a few issues with fitment and having to grind down the area of the head for the pushrod to allow for more room...

I also think the Dyno Don headers are a good deal and they will have to be on my list to purchase when I swap the 406 in...I currently have SLP headers on the 350 that is in the car...but I know that the port sizes don't match...just like you found with the larger heads.

Keep up the good work...this is motivating me to work on my own project car.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I originally got rid of the ProTopline heads because I bought the SLP headers. The ProToplines had angle plugs and would not clear the SLP headers I had bought. I had a ghetto rigged true dual exhaust system and wanted to go back to single.

After buying the SLP's I got rid of them and bought the Dyno Don headers. The funny thing is I could have used the ProTopline heads with Dyno Don's headers. I know..it was a *** backwards way to doing it.

The ProTopline heads pushed my car to 7.8's on street tires so they were no slouch.

88TPI406GTA

I can understand that...I have my own history of bad parts decision making...LOL.

I just wanted to make sure that you didn't ditch the heads due to a quality or performance issue. I just know that there were some complaints with the 200cc Proaction heads and port sizing a while back. I have the 220cc heads and I only wanted to buy one set...even though the 200cc would be a better match for my current cam, etc.

Are your heads angle plug? I am following the exhaust thread that you have too and I really like the fitment of the Dyno Don stuff. I am strongly considering the y-pipe along with the headers. I have the Moroso 6 quart oil pan for the thirdgen...it looks like the one that you have, right?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

The quality of the heads were fine. I guess I got a good set. I did hear a lot of problems with them and the machine shop I deal with stopped selling them. Make sure you check your alignment for the rockers. I bought a set of Isky adjustable guide plates but sold them when I sold the heads.

The AFR heads I have now are L98 angle. With the SLP headers, the Angle spark plugs won't work just the L98 angle. With Dyno Don headers he said they will fit either. When I ordered the AFR's I still had the SLP's, thats why I went with the L98 angle. The plug access is great.

Yes I have a moroso 6 quart pan. If you get his y pipe, which is a really nice piece, you will either have a custom y pipe made for it or buy half the y pipe and have an exhaust shop make the driver side part. Thats what I did. With that pan a stock style Y pipe will not fit.

Dyno Don is a busy guy and sometimes takes a little while to get a set of headers out. It just depends if he has to make them or has them in stock. Just a FYI if you are on a time line and will need them soon.

If I can help or answer anything else for you let me know.

Jason

88TPI406GTA

I appreciate your solution for the heads...even though I like the flow through them...running this 220cc head presents some challenges that I didn't really need for my power level with EFI...like the 1206 intake gasket and my Stealth Ram (older) incompatibility or this exhaust port mismatch...or the pushrod slot clearancing issue. Certainly not anything terrible...but it makes me think that I should have gone the AFR route from the start

That is good to know about the Moroso pan and the y-pipe. It seems like it is tough to find a good exhaust shop where I live...a shop where "mandrel-bent" doesn't sound like Spanish...

Thanks for the heads up with ordering...I have PMed Dyno Don a few months back...but my schedule for the swap is for later in the year. I am still sorting out some wiring and transmission issues with the Camaro...once those get ironed out...the exhaust upgrade and some better chip burning equipment are in order for the 406 swap...

Keep the updates coming

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I drove the car home last week. The temp is a lot higher than I expected it to be. I don't know if not having hood on it is making it worse because of the air flow. I thought it would be better. I thought the factory gauge was pretty close but I don't know. The engine didn't run that hot before, and it had iron heads on it.

The carb is giving me fits. I was only getting 9 inches of vacuum or so at idle. The plugs were all black. I opened the secondary blades up some and that helped a lot. I am getting close to 14 now. I don't think it was getting enough air at idle and not getting a good signal for the idle circuit to work right.

After I get that figured out I am going to look at the timing curve. As of now I am not getting the mechanical advance that I need.

jwdomino

iTrader: (12)

if you didnt get your alt issue cleared up, just open it and rotate the case. I had the same issue

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Since the last time I posted things have went down hill.....

I was swapping my carb back on when I couldn't find a washer. I looked everywhere for it, even down the intake. I figured I had dropped it. I went and drove the car to check out the secondaries. They worked....

Came back, checked a plug and let it sit. Started it back up and was adjusting the carb....BAMMM!!!

knock knock knock knock

Found the washer...

Pulled it in the barn and didn't look at it for a week. It sounded like a rod knock but it had a dead miss in it. The knock and the miss started at the same time. It was louder on the passenger side, which just happen to be the side I was missing the washer on.

Checked the plugs and they all looked good but #6. I used a bore scope and looked in the spark plug hole. I could see scratches on top of the piston. I thought, "Yup, found the washer."

I pulled the head off tonight and things got worse. The intake valley is full of metal flakes. They look silver/copper. I checked the heads and didn't see anything strange. It looks like bearings. But I don't see how they could have gotten to the top of the engine like that.

The carb flooded out when the needle and seat stuck and dumped loads of fuel into the engine. I pulled the plugs out and let it sit over night. Changed the oil the next morning with new plugs and have been working on the carb. It's been running rich but I had gotten that fixed.

#6 looked different than the others and it looks like where a valve touched the top of the piston. The valves look fine.

Regardless the engine has to come out to find out where all the metal came from.

It hasn't been a good day. It could have been worse I guess. The washer could have went through the engine when I had it the RPMs up and took out a cylinder. There is obviously something wrong with all the metal flake in it valley. I guess it's better to find out now. The engine was assembled with lube and pressure primed.

I don't have any idea what has caused this. Needless to say I am not happy at all.

#6




Valley




**** I need a beer.
----------
Here are my helpers

88TPI406GTA

Damn....I am sorry to hear that. I have made that washer mistake exactly one time in my life...I had to pull the head on my small block too.

The metal flakes suck. Too bad you have to pull the engine out to figure out the problem...let's hope it isn't too bad.

Keep us updated...

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

15 years of working on cars and this is the first time I have dropped anything down an engine.

ssean92

iTrader: (10)

Man that sucks Man

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Machine shop says the flakes are from the bronze thrust plate that is used with the retro fit cam. After thinking about it thats the only bronze part in the entire engine.

In sunlight you can see the flakes are 100% bronze. He said if it was bearings you could see the different layers of it. Regardless I am going to pull it and check the bearings and find out why there was no play in the cam.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

It's been a while since I have posted. Since no one has checked up on me I thought I'd post.

I finally took the engine apart tonight. Between work and not even wanting to look at the car, it's sat for two months since I took the heads off.

The bottom end is ****ing smoked. Every rod/main bearing is wiped out. #1 rod bearing spun and beat the **** out of itself. That has to be what I was hearing.

There is all sorts of **** in the oil pan and the oil was filthy.

I never dropped a washer down the intake. It just happen to happen at the same time.

On the timing cover I can see where the cam button wore into it. Obviously there was not enough clearance. I was expecting for that bronze thrust washer to be completely gone but it's not. I do not know what the thickness of it was before but I am sure it's thinner now it's really smooth

I don't know if the bronze washer pieces ran through the engine and took the bearings out or something else happened.

The engine was assembled with lubriplate and pressure primed.

I guess I ****ed up somewhere. It's going to the machine shop tomorrow.

88TPI406GTA

That sucks big time. I know how unmotivating it can be to find something like that...but keep the faith...and rebuild it better and stronger

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Everything is at the machine shop. The crank is pretty bad. I might end up getting a new one. I am not found of having it turned .030 on the rod journals.

I hope to have it back by the end of the week. The shop seems to think since there was not enough clearance for the cam the debris from the thrust washer went through the bearings which caused a snow ball effect. Nothing I can do about it now.

Anyhow I was working on the car tonight. I re did how the air damn was below the radiator. With the radiator being lower so was the air damn. After looking at it I didn't think it was good for air flow. I wasn't able to use the rest of the factory air damn and bolt everything up on the lower part of the car.

After some trimming I think it's about perfect and actually is back in the original place it was. There is a piece I am missing and for the life of me I don't know what or where it is.




There are two small clips that something gets bolted to. I can kind of picture it in my head but I can't find the part in the garage. I don't remember if it was there before or not.

I am need of that piece for both sides as well as the two parts of the air damn that go on the gfx.

Thanks for any help.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I ran across this picture. It kind of looks like I am missing a big part.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I got the engine back from the machine shop yesterday. The short block is assembled. I picked up the gaskets I need to put it back together and the oil pump.

I am planning on putting it together tonight and have it back on the road by next weekend.

91CCFirebird

great build...hope to see it on the road as I too am from Evansville

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Progress!!




I am tired of posting pic's of when the engine gets put together!

Sorry to the people who have followed the this thread to only watch me screw it up.

It should be in the car tomorrow night. I ordered a new set of valve covers from summit that should be here later this week.

ssean92

iTrader: (10)

Brother I feel your pain I have been messing with this 383 of mine for sometime now, well since january and I am still fighting the bugs......I have come close to sell it a few times.....keep your head up bro it will be right soon enough

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Well the damn thing runs finally and has for two days now.

I put about 100 miles on it this weekend. It's loud, good lord its loud.

Stewart components told me to put the temp sending unit on the intake next to better monitor engine temp. It never gets above 180 which I am very happy about.

I got the speedo and the tach working.

I am trying to get it tuned right now. The stock HEI distributor in it isn't working right. I set the timing at 15 degrees and rev it, it sticks around 25 degrees. I put heavier springs in it everything is greased but it still does it.

I am having a problem with having to turn the idle screw up to get it idle it uncovers the idle circuit and runs on the primary side. I drilled a 1/16 hole in the primaries tonight but didn't seem to help any. I have to get the timing squared away first.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

The car has about 200 miles on it now. I bought the summit street/strip ignition set this past week. It came with a billet distributor, coil and digital ignition box.

I got it hooked up this past weekend. I am at 15 degrees initial w/ 21 degrees of advance for 36 total. I have read in several places that the new chamber design of the AFR heads that you can run 34 degrees instead. I left the heavy springs in there but will probably put the medium springs in there this week. It feels like I am not getting total timing till about 4grand.

The car runs pretty good. I have gotten on it a few times. The thing I am working on right now is the idle. It seems I have to open the idle screw up to the point it's pulling fuel from the main circuit. I have opened up the secondaries and have drilled 1/16 holes in the primaries and secondary blades. The idle is a little more stable but I can only get about 10-11 inches of vacuum.

I am replaces my intake gaskets yesterday. I sprayed carb cleaner around the ports and the engine vacuum shot up to 14-15. I used some sealer around the ports, a small brown bottle, let it set up then put the intake on. I ran the engine a few times and tightened the intake bolts up good and tight. Now when I spray carb cleaner around it ports it doesn't seem to shoot up.

I am going to keep messing with the carb. Thing is I don't know much about how to tune them. I spend a lot of time on the carb board here and bought a holley tuning book.

I am going to try to hook up the wideband 02 sensor this week and see what the air fuel ratio is.

That flowmaster muffler is freakin loud. I like the sound. It has a real metallic sound to it. I might have a 4 in magnaflow to quieten it down. I think the magnaflow is suppose to flow better anyway.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Here are some pics of the primaries. You can see how much of the idle slots are exposed.





Secondaries


Notice how damp it is on the back of the carb flange.

At first I thought it was moisture from the PCV. But when I took the carb off tonight without running the car since yesterday it was still there. Can it be leaking somewhere? It's not leaking externally.