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So after reading everybody else's thread, I decided I need to document my own Camaro story. It begins in 2003, with a 16 year old and a learner's permit.
I bought my first Camaro a month before I got my license, July 2003. My friend had a 88 2.8L with a nice original paint job and T-tops waiting for him to get his license, and I just HAD to have one of my own. I spent months going through newspapers and convincing my parents that a Camaro wasn't a terrible idea, and I finally found a good deal in the Bargain News that I sold them on. It was a white 87 sport coupe, 2.8L, 700R4, and of course T-tops. She was a beauty, in great condition and ran fine. Don't even think she had more than 90k on the odometer. No leaks, no rust, and no dents. $1700, which I split with my parents since I was their favorite. I drove her home (with my mom in the car) and sat her in the garage till I could get my license. I babied her, and spent as much time as I could in that car. She was a beauty, till one day some @$$hole from New York sideswiped me in an intersection that gave no explanation for him wanting to turn into my lane. He was probably drunk, which is why he didn't want to call the cops and since I wasn't thinking straight at the time (I was driving around to calm myself down from something), I went along with it. Oh, and he had his wife and kids in the car too. The front and rear fenders were damaged, and I got no insurance money to fix it. It was all downhill from there. Things started breaking, rusting, leaking, and I had less and less money and time to take care of her. I don't have many pics of her, or any really. Except for what the engine looked like when I took it apart after she finally died July 2005.
She sat in my yard for almost two years while I tried to save up enough money to bring her back. But as she sat, problems just got worse. It was time to let go. I picked her over for useful parts including the T-tops, rear hatch, misc interior bits, and the wheels and tires. Those snow tires took me 50 miles on highway covered 3 inches deep in snow, they weren't going anywhere. What was left went to my friend's cousin who tore out more parts for her project car. This is pretty much all I have left to remember my first car by:
I got a 03 Impala after my Camaro was sidelined in 2005, and 172k later (247k total) she's unstoppable and the reason I will forever be a Chevy man. But that's a story for another thread .
Finally, in 2007 after scrapping my sport coupe, I couldn't take it anymore and HAD to have another Camaro. I spent at least an hour a day online for weeks trying to find the right one for the right price. Finally I found another 87, but this time it was a red IROC with a 305 TPI, 700R4, and of course T-tops. It was on Long Island, so it was a whole day to hop on the ferry and check it out. This is where it gets special. My dad had recently become pretty sick with pancreatic cancer. We had never done much together, but he supported me getting this car WAY more than my mom. He wanted to come with me to check it out and pick it up. It's one of the few memories I have of just spending time with him, and for this reason I will NEVER sell this car, not for a billion dollars. When I got there, I hijacked someone's wi-fi and carfaxed the VIN. It was mostly clear, though it had apparently been stolen for a few months! Pretty sweet, I guess. It hauled a$$, looked good (despite the obvious Maaco paint job), and was a pretty good deal at $2200. We brought it home on the ferry, and I drove it while my dad drove my Impala. I obviously got home 15 minutes quicker
I figured out that the speedo was off when it seemed like everyone on the highway was driving 55, since I was going 65 and passing everyone. It turns out I have a different rear, a Borg Warner 2.77. Fine with me, saves me gas money. Had trouble finding both speedo gears, so I've left it for now. Everything else about the car seemed to be by the numbers. This thing was loaded from the factory, though time had taken its toll. The auto dimming mirror doesn't work, the map light fixture is broken, the flashlight doesn't work, etc. No biggie, I'll get around to all this!
I drove it on nice days, and used the Impala for the rest. She was a beast, but I couldn't be satisfied with just a 305 so soon after I bought a 350 and begun tearing it down to be built into the last engine I'd ever need.
Money again became a problem, and not much progress would be made on the car or the engine for months. Until June, 2008. Me and my buddy decided to take an impromptu cross country road trip. We had one bag of clothes each, my tools, and that's it. This is about the only picture I have of the car in the shape I bought it, and it's from that road trip.
After crossing the Mississippi, I finally let him drive. 3 hours later in Hot Springs, Arkansas, we (I say we cuz I was giving him bad directions and confusing him, to be fair) run a red light and turn left into oncoming traffic. I watched the black Chevy with a huge brush guard barrel into my rear fender and send us into a spin. I watched the T-top fly off over my head, and the hatch glass shatter. She was totalled. Still running, but totalled. I spent 2 grand, the rest of my life savings, letting what seemed to be the most reputable shop in the area fix the panel and get her in one piece again. What a HACK! The window and T-top didn't line up with the new quarter panel, he put the WRONG hatch on, and sealed the welds with foam insulation. I didn't realize till after I paid him, but it was too late then. We had checked out of our hotel and were back on the road, this time dodging rain since we had two holes for a non existent third brake light in the back glass, and a massive gap between the passenger window and body. Whatever. Oh by the way, that T-top that went flying through the air onto the pavement? Not a scratch.
We made it to the Pacific and back to CT, flat broke and smelling awful. But the IROC never quit, except for a leaking steering pump in Tennessee and a spent alternator in Sweetwater, TX. I got her into the garage and began thinking how I can fix her. The quarter panel was left in primer (to save money) and had to be painted, and somehow these gaps had to be closed. And thank goodness I saved the hatch from my V6! Only one solution I saw: total repaint. I tore her apart and me and my buddy began sanding panel by panel by hand. I soon learned I'm not good at this, and my primer job proved it.
I sanded and sanded, everything but the front bumper and fenders.
I primed and it came out terrible and rough. I tried filling rust holes with POR-15's epoxy stuff I had laying around, and it looked awful even though it'd be covered by the GFX.
So I had to throw in the towel, and find someone who knew what they were doing. My brother had recently banged up my mom's car, and she took it to this guy's collision shop. He also does custom work, and motorcycles. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. I brought him pics, and he said he wanted to come over and take a look. He agreed to take the job, but explained it'd be a side job since collision work is keeping him so busy and it might take well over a year. And he will not agree to cutting any corners to save money. If his name is going to be on the job, it's going to be perfect. I agreed, we shook hands, and the restoration began May 2011.
We started with the removable parts. I gave him the doors, the hood, the hatch, and the rear bumper. I also bought a "new" GM front bumper (it's dated 1998, that's a long time to sit in a warehouse!) and gave him that to prep since the existing bumper was cracked and ugly. In the meantime, I've been trying to get her to run perfect. A full intake gasket replacement, new exhaust gaskets on the heads and collectors, EGR gaskets, timing, AC delete (it was empty anyway, probably deleted before), 3 wire O2 plug, other misc tweaks I can't remember. Running better than ever, but there's still an obvious intake leak somewhere that I haven't pinned down yet. And something is out of alignment because I've got another bent power steering pulley that's sure to start a leak soon. But these are minor issues, I just want her back in one piece and moving again!
Life has however brought me to SLC, Utah. I'm moving back home to my IROC by the end of the month, where I'll be spending all the time and money I can getting her ready. I've got to get her out of there. My mom wants me and the rest my stuff out of the house, and she even suggested selling the IROC. I wanted to slap her, but my hand wouldn't fit through the phone. So my goal is to have her roadworthy within the next few months, and hopefully journaling it here will help motivate me.
So the plans are this:
-Restore the body and paint it white, in honor of my first Camaro and cuz it just looks way better than red.
-Fix the current motor to solid running condition and run it into the ground while I build my 350.
-Restore the interior to working condition, with slight customizations.
-Rebuild or replace the 700R4 because it's leaking and doesn't seem to shift quite right. This may include a full manual valve body, I haven't decided yet.
-Keep her for the rest of my life, and beat that 66 Volvo that's almost at 3 million miles!
What I've done so far:
-Replaced the seats with 4th gen seats. If you smelled those original seats after two guys lived in them for a month, you'd understand why.
-Installed the KYB shocks from my V6, as this one was riding on factory pieces and you could tell.
-New gaskets, most leaks sealed but still one in the intake and possibly the exhaust side due to these unidentified headers not agreeing totally with any gasket I've tried. I have a marine gasket on there now, pretty thick and seems to be sealing well.
-Removed AC pump and plumbing. Will look into an AC delete box to complete the process.
-Tried installing turn signal switch lever whateveryoucallit from my V6 and I can't get it back together. I think I broke it, and my hi-beams are stuck on. So...gotta fix that.
-Installed oil filter in the PCV line, and it's already proving effective. I'm surprised how much oil goes through that line, at least it's being captured now instead of burned.
-And of course, my amateur attempt at body work. Giving the car to Lou was probably the best thing I've done for it, even if it's been over a year and progress has stopped. There's actually another Z28 in line ahead of me, so he's trying to keep my project on the DL so the other guy doesn't get pissed that Lou's working on my car and not his. But whatever, good things come to those who wait!
pretty neat adventure. always wanted to do the same. at least your fixing the iroc, although you beat the hell out of it. and im guessing you never changed your oil in the sc?? and previous owner may have skipped quite a few before you got it lol
Yeah, towards the end I got pretty careless with her as I lost interest in fighting a losing battle to keep her alive. She was burning so much oil that I never bothered to change it, just kept adding more. Eventually it wouldn't run for 5 minutes without overheating, and that's when I gave up. That sludge looked like delicious chocolate cake when I opened it up, and had about the same consistency. I'm pretty embarrassed, but I always learn things the hard way.
If you ever get the chance, you should totally take a trip in your IROC. Nothin like driving through gorgeous American countryside with the tops off and the engine humming! And it still amazes me, out of every car I've sat in or drove, a 3rd gen Camaro is the only one that really fits me. I had no problem driving for hours on end or sleeping in those seats, and I'm 6'3". It's meant to be!
no need to be embarrased, alot of us have learned the hard way lol. and yes no doubt a 3rd gen is the only vehicle for me, they fit like a glove. iv never owned any other type of vehicle ever! i now have 5 that i have just kept putting together and fixing (nickle and diming me to death) but its what i get my jollys from lol. and i too am 6'3"
Hah thanks! I hope it gets exciting enough for you, but I can't make any guarantees. I can't wait to get home and get started though. Since the body work is a side job, it's sort of a pay as we go sort of deal. Unfortunately I'm pretty low on money, but also time. I tried talking him into using the paint and primer I bought when I was planning to do it myself, but he wouldn't since it was 2 years old even though i had kept it sealed and in the basement the entire time. So there goes some $1200 worth of PPG Deltron products. I still can't imagine the stuff going bad if it's sealed and never mixed, but he's also a Dupont guy so I had little chance of talking him into it. Some patio furniture is gonna get a sweet paint job someday!
So as soon as I get home to CT in August, first priority will be getting some money together to wave in his face and hopefully motivate him to move things along. He is still my best, and possibly only option to resurrect my IROC since he's done plenty of this type of work before (pictures on the wall of all sorts of classics he's done to prove it, including 3rd gens), and every other shop in the area I've talked to won't bother with it despite my willingness to pay whatever it costs. Someday I'll learn to do it right myself, when I'm old and rich.
Wow, your first car is pretty much a carbon copy of mine. My first car was a 1987 White SC with a 2.8 liter. Mine didn't have T-tops though. Not to long after I got it I wanted to make it look like an RS, Iroc, Z28 and put ground effects on it. One night I was driving through town and I was sideswiped by I'm sure what was a drunk driver (he just kept right on going like nothing ever happened) and I decided since my car was already damaged I might as well get the ground effects and get it painted. I drove it around with the ground effects and new paint job for 5 more years before it started to nickel and dime me to death, so I sold it. I still see it from time to time. 7 years later I bought the 1992 Z28 that I have now.
Stratocaster, I just think our cars are just targets for drunk drivers. I'm pretty sure that's what took out my first car, but I was too naive to know. It's cool that yours is still around though, hope it's got a good home.
Canadian Girl, thanks! I hope it has a good ending!
Phenom, no kidding! And it gets worse. I left a bunch of stuff on the floor of my room that I forgot to throw away, and I told my mom it's all junk and she can get rid of it. I come home and it's not on the floor anymore, but she didn't throw it out. She put it all back! I just don't understand. Maybe if I tell her to junk my Camaro, I'll come home one day and it'll be completely restored!
So I'm home now, and my first stop was the body shop. Still busy, so busy in fact that he hired one of my buddies cuz he needed extra help. But he did say he'll give me a call in 2 weeks as things clear up, and it might be go time! Very good news.
Meanwhile, I just took the tarp off today to see how she's doing. Left the battery hooked up, so she needed a jump. Started up ok, struggled to idle, but eventually was going on her own. A high up and down idle, a rich smelling exhaust, and so much body shake that I could mix a martini on the front seat. But it's all steady and predictable, and she can definitely drive if she needs to. And I don't hear the intake leak anymore, which is strange but a relief for now? Well, time to unpack the tools and do some reading.
Free time is anything but free. In the couple hours I've found here and there, I've been working on tracking down the intake/exhaust leak and investigating my fuel pressure trouble.
I seafoamed the engine hoping for it to reveal any exhaust leaks, and boy did I have one. The (brand new) collector gasket was spewing seafoam in gaseous and liquid state, so I tightened it down what little I could. O2 still read 4mV, and I still heard the whistling of an intake leak somewhere.
Since it's an easy test, I checked the fuel pressure too. It was leaking off fast, even after cutting off the return line. So today I finally got to pop out the rail (not completely, the bracket holding the fuel lines will not come off. The bolt is frozen and now rounded). I found 2 leaking injectors, one on each side of the engine. They're all filthy and most likely original (believing less and less that this engine was ever rebuilt like the PO claimed), so I'm going for a new set of Bosch III's from either FIC or South Bay.
In the process, the plenum gaskets which were new are now the suspect of the intake leak. They were stuck to the mating surfaces and tore apart when I took the intake apart. Hopefully the new set will solve that issue. I'm wondering if spraying seafoam directly into the TB had anything to do with it, or if it was just the repeated disassembly and reassembly of the intake that screwed them up. Either way, new gaskets and new injectors will hopefully get me closer to a smooth running engine.
As for the body, the shop is still too busy for me. I keep sending reminders, but it's not looking good for now. All well and good I guess, gives me time to iron out the engine issues.
If anyone has any preference between FIC or South Bay for the injectors, let me know!
Awesome story dude! Also cool to see that you're in CT as well! I'm in central CT about 20 minutes southwest of Hartford. I have a 1991 Trans Am I'm fixing up now, and while it's of great sentimental value to me and has helped me make some awesome memories, my story doesn't even come close to yours. Where in CT are you if I may ask?
Awesome story dude! Also cool to see that you're in CT as well! I'm in central CT about 20 minutes southwest of Hartford. I have a 1991 Trans Am I'm fixing up now, and while it's of great sentimental value to me and has helped me make some awesome memories, my story doesn't even come close to yours. Where in CT are you if I may ask?
I'm on the shoreline in Old Saybrook. Born and raised. Yeah, life here isn't very exciting, so I try to make it exciting. Unfortunately it takes a heavy toll on my cars!
I'm on the shoreline in Old Saybrook. Born and raised. Yeah, life here isn't very exciting, so I try to make it exciting. Unfortunately it takes a heavy toll on my cars!
Oh gotcha, I'm from Plainville so I'm a ways off. And same here lol, gotta keep things interesting. If you're ever in the area, the Berlin Turnpike going through Newington/Berlin on Friday and Saturday (especially Saturdays) nights is pretty neat. Strong car scene! I'm there pretty often. Although the season is dying down so there's not as much action going on now. There are a few thirdgen guys I hang out with, some of which I met on this forum!
Last edited by musclecar70sfan; 10-24-2012 at 12:26 PM.
Sweet, yeah that's not too far. I went to CCSU up there and I feel like I knew about this at some point. But yeah, it's not quite camaro season anymore. Pretty soon it won't be safe for anything metal on CT roads. Believe me, when the ol girl is back in one piece I'm taking her all over the damn place. Gotta catch up to my Impala, it's 16 years younger and at least 100k ahead of the IROC.
Sweet, yeah that's not too far. I went to CCSU up there and I feel like I knew about this at some point. But yeah, it's not quite camaro season anymore. Pretty soon it won't be safe for anything metal on CT roads. Believe me, when the ol girl is back in one piece I'm taking her all over the damn place. Gotta catch up to my Impala, it's 16 years younger and at least 100k ahead of the IROC.
Oh sweet! I have a few friends that are attending or have graduated from CCSU as well. And you're definitely right, only a matter of time before the snow (and salt) flies.
Finally got a day off to get back in the garage, but at least now I have money to pay for my project! It was a pretty successful day. Fixed a couple things and broke nothing, so I'm pretty happy. The intake and fuel rail are finally ready to go back together. I soldered in new connectors for the IAC and the EGR temp sensor, as the old ones were smashed (for those looking for an EGR temp sensor connector, a male O2 sensor connector works).
Then I started cleaning. I wiped down all the fuel mating surfaces, including cleaning out the injector holes. The real fun was getting all the gasket that had kinda melted on to the runners, plenum, and manifold. After realizing how well carb cleaner dissolves paper gaskets, I'm willing to bet I had something to do with them falling apart. Here's a little before and after. The rest of the parts were way worse than this one, but two hours later I had it all shining again.
I also cleaned up the cold start injector and bent it back into shape. It was covered in silicone goop, I'm hoping because the lip past the O ring was bent, as well as the little flange that the bolt goes through. As for putting it all back together, I'm going to have to wait till next week. Trying to cram a lot into one day including Christmas shopping...ugh...
Finally got a day off to get back in the garage, but at least now I have money to pay for my project! It was a pretty successful day. Fixed a couple things and broke nothing, so I'm pretty happy. The intake and fuel rail are finally ready to go back together. I soldered in new connectors for the IAC and the EGR temp sensor, as the old ones were smashed (for those looking for an EGR temp sensor connector, a male O2 sensor connector works).
Then I started cleaning. I wiped down all the fuel mating surfaces, including cleaning out the injector holes. The real fun was getting all the gasket that had kinda melted on to the runners, plenum, and manifold. After realizing how well carb cleaner dissolves paper gaskets, I'm willing to bet I had something to do with them falling apart. Here's a little before and after. The rest of the parts were way worse than this one, but two hours later I had it all shining again.
I also cleaned up the cold start injector and bent it back into shape. It was covered in silicone goop, I'm hoping because the lip past the O ring was bent, as well as the little flange that the bolt goes through. As for putting it all back together, I'm going to have to wait till next week. Trying to cram a lot into one day including Christmas shopping...ugh...
Where did you find that replacement IAC connector?
Side note: When the 2.8 in my S10 died, the insides looked just like yours. I was religious in changing the oil every 3k miles(within 100 miles of the mark). I used Quaker State exclusively. Needless to say, I no longer use it.
Happy Easter! I finally made an inch of progress this past week, though it may or may not deserve reviving this thread for an update. But I'm bored, it's my thread, so I'm doing it.
After properly installing my FIC Bosch III's (I even lubricated the O rings, I'm getting less lazy!), I put the fuel system back together with no trouble. I even bent back the mangled cold start injector, hoping it's making a proper seal now. I primed the system once, got a weak 20 psi or so, primed it again and got a good 46 psi. I waited a few minutes and it wouldn't drop past 42 or so, so I patted myself on the back. Then I fought with the damn plenum gaskets for a good 20 minutes trying to get the driver's side to line up correctly and stay put while bolting down. With the engine back together for the first time in what...3 months? I charged the battery and gave the key a turn. Clickclickclickclickclick. Charged longer. A couple weak turns and then more clicks. I shoulda known better than to ask for smooth sailing. Sooo I had the battery tested and it seems to have quit just outside its 65 month rated life span. That's fine considering the slow torture I put it through sitting in that garage, not always unhooked. I'm definitely going with another Interstate, especially after having one in my Impala that has surely outlived its life and just recently tested perfectly fine.
In the meantime I soldered back together two wires for a connector for the passenger door that tore off when they were dangling loose and got run over by the front wheel while I was backing out of the garage. Come to think of it, the loose ends of both wires were tangled together, probably draining the battery every time I left it plugged in. Oh well.
Hopefully I have a nice sunny day off this week to put a new battery in and back her out into the sunlight and figure out why my O2 sensor still reads 4mv at idle, if it still does. Then, I've been given reason to hope that the shop can take her in sometime this month to make her whole again. But we'll see...
Put in a new battery, tightened down the alternator (which apparently I had forgotten to do) and fired her up. Wow. What a difference two leaking injectors make. It runs MUCH smoother and throttle response is better now that I'm not constantly flooding two cylinders. And that's with my O2 problem. I'll probably be in the market for new headers, as I'm 99% sure mine are Flowtech and are the perfect example of why they get a bad reputation around here. I've gone through 3 or 4 sets of header gaskets and 1 set of collector gaskets and I still have a massive leak somewhere. If anyone has any recommendations to be used on this 305 and the future mild 350 (target 300-350 HP), let me know.
Anyway, here she is getting some sun and burning off some dust. Notice the injectors. Thanks again, FIC!
The weather is warming up and is making it much easier to work on the old girl on my days off. I've amassed quite a few bits and pieces for repairs, mostly body related.
-Stainless steel T-top center bar
-38 tooth speedo driven gear
-Steering column repair kit, including the hi beam linkage
-Original 1987 shop manual and electrical diagnosis book, how did I live without these?
Parts on the way:
-Weatherstripping kit from 1A
-Window sweeps, inner and outer
-Interior screw kit from Camarocentral, since they seem to evaporate over time or something
-17 tooth drive gear, since the one the dealer gave me is pre-1970 th350, where did he even find this piece?
-Plastic lug nut covers for my Impala's wheel covers. Hate these things...thinking about getting the aluminum wheels from a junkyard
As far as the body work is concerned, I dropped off all the misc plastic parts that need to be painted (GFX, gas door, mirrors, spoiler) and another wad of cash. Getting closer!
So in the meantime I thought I'd do the speedo gears. Not the most difficult job, but not exactly easy. And like every other project, there just had to be a catastrophic failure: the dealer gave me the wrong speedo gear. It slips on and off way too easily, and has a channel for a totally different retaining clip. Argh.
So while I wait for the right one to come in the mail, the car sits with the trans wide open, the torque arm hanging, and the driveshaft on the floor. By the way, how does one know if a driveshaft is aluminum or steel? When tapping it with a tool it almost sounded like an aluminum baseball bat. I rule out nothing on this car, it's full of surprises.
Edit: Oh yeah...magnets. Nope, it's steel.
July 19th. It finally goes to the shop! I had it towed by my local shop to the body shop, since their flatbed was down. I pulled it into the paint booth without power steering, since I'm missing one of the 3 with-AC brackets for the pump (I think I accidentally scrapped it ). I have the single w/o-AC bracket on order from a dealer so they don't break my steering wheel off trying to move her around the shop. Other than that, she's in their hands now! While I sit and funnel in the various parts and cash he'll need for the job, I'm looking ahead to the future. Dyno Don headers tops the list to replace those awful Flowtech pieces. The rear end cover is leaking, so I think I'll overbuild that with a TA girdle. I'll need new rear speakers since one got trashed in the wreck. The head unit doesn't work like it used to either, so that'll have to be replaced too. Might as well get an amp while I'm at it. Then it'll be time to learn interior design...
I don't know about you all, but I hate hanging threads.
So here we are, 12 years after the accident, and no closer to having my IROC back. I reclaimed the car from the shop it went to in the last photo because after 5 years of being told "we're really busy, we'll get back to it in 2 weeks", I had had enough. The fuel pump is now gone so while it still turns over, it won't start or run. But as anyone who knows me will tell you, I am a stubborn son of a bitch. It now sits half in my garage, half in my basement. I've asked two more shops about doing the work to get it back together, but no interest. I have another shop in mind, but I have low expectations.
It's funny to think about this journey over the years. I bought this car in 2007 for $2,200 in relatively great shape. Craigslist was FULL of third gen Camaros back then. It really felt like a buyer's market. These days it seems this car in the same condition (if I could ever find one) would cost at least triple that, making the economics of repairing mine even more complicated. Even if I parted this out and put all the money towards another one, I still think I'd be spending more and not getting what I want, which is this exact car. I don't mean just the sentimental value, but the configuration of this car. Finding or building another to match it would be a project in itself, costing who knows how much in terms of time and money. So here we are 13 years and some $4,000 later, worse off than when we started, and still with no solid plan.
Every time I come back on here though, it gives me hope. I posted last year in the classifieds to sell it as a parts car, but the sticky at the top urging not to junk cars that don't deserve it has haunted me ever since. The car is mostly in grey primer and has only the doors attached, but looking at it from the right angle I can still see my car and for a split second I flash back to that trip, making it feel so close and attainable. I've done many complicated projects over the past 12 years and now painting a car doesn't seem as overwhelming as it did back then. I have a lot more money squirreled away than I did in 2013, a lot of it in an account that I literally called my Camaro fund. I still think I can rebuild this car.
I moved it from one side of my two car garage to the other yesterday in a clever feat of engineering, if I may say so myself, so we got pretty intimate. I spent a good amount of time inspecting various things from various angles, reevaluating our situation for the 2353426234th time. I'm beginning to think the frame is bent, unsurprisingly given the crash. The T-top gap is at least 1/2" longer on the impacted side, measuring metal that is original and unmodified by the AR body shop. This would explain the gap in the passenger side window and T-top, and makes things even more interesting when it comes to asking for help from body shops. If it is bent, would straightening it solve the apparent quarter panel misalignment? Would I still need that cut off and reinstalled correctly? I drove it over 5,000 miles since the accident and didn't notice any weird behavior, so is it even bent at all? I'll be taking more measurements today under the car.
There is a limit to my madness, however. If too many components need repair/replacement to the point that it won't really be my car anymore, then it kind of negates the point. I don't exactly know how to define what parts of a car make a car an individual, but there are certain things that if they need to be replaced, suddenly none of it seems worth it. Obviously if the body can't be repaired there's nothing I can do about that, but if the engine is shot (which I have no reason to believe to be the case), the car is dead. If the rear end is bent and needs to be replaced, it oddly wouldn't be my same 2.77 cross-country cruiser anymore even if I swapped the gearing. I suppose the limits to my madness are really just more madness...
If you managed to read all this, I thank and applaud you as it really isn't necessary. This long-winded thread is more for my own benefit now, and for the benefit of anyone who wants to prove to a judge that I am irrational and incapable of responsible judgement. I just want to give this thread closure one way or another. I'll probably edit this later with pics as well which will make me feel less guilty about writing a novel.
Edit: I didn't want to bump the thread with a new post, but I do want to add that I have since measured corner-to-corner on the suspension and it is still dead equal, making be believe the frame is actually ok. This week I got back in touch with a body shop in Madison who claims they're interested in the job, but we'll see.
Last time, on a show no one's watching:
The IROC sat behind a body shop in coastal New England for 3 years with maybe 3 gallons of gas in it.
I got the car back, irrationally refusing to give up on it, and finally got another shop to come take a look at it.
He said he'd take the job, but wondered if I could get it running. Sure, I thought, I have a new fuel pump ready, should only take a weekend, right?
...That was March 2nd...
I had very little time to devote to this task over the spring, but still it probably would have only taken a weekend if it weren't for the welded and therefore unremovable cat and mid-pipe, seized panhard brace bolt, seized fuel line fitting, and underestimation of just how low the rear end needs to go to get this stupid thing in and out. I cut, drilled, and hammered out the pandhard brace bolt, wrestled the muffler off and just restrained the exhaust pipe out of the way, broke the sender-side fuel line, and dropped the rear end nearly to the floor. Note 1: Absolutely take off the passenger side wheel. That side is what needs to drop the lowest to wiggle the tank out in the one and only sequence of moves that can actually get it free. Finally, after lots of wrestling, cursing, and rethinking what I was doing with my life, the tank fell out. I started feeling like I was halfway there.
I was not. Not only was the fuel pump shot, but the inside of the tank was encrusted with rustacles (rust barnacles). Because the fuel level was so low and for so long, the rustacles were big and covered probably 90% of the inside of the tank. I tried chemically removing them and going in there manually with a wire brush, Scotch-brite pad, sandpaper, but nothing was really working. The sending unit was also toast. The lines were rotted (and one twisted to fatigue while trying to disconnect it), the sock was torn and deteriorated, it just looked trashed.
So I ordered a new sending unit assembly from RockAuto, and a new Spectra tank from AutoZone. I paid a little more on the tank, but didn't pay for shipping which is obviously substantial. This is one if the Ni-Terne (whatever that means) pieces, which I understand to be what the OE is made out of, so I trusted it more than galvanized or painted versions.
I read reviews about questionable fit of the neck and things like that, but that is not what I found. That is not to say that it is a perfect fit. Note 2: The seams of the tank may not be bent as much as the original, making it hard to fit. They are also very hard to bend further, and I'm not even sure it's safe to do so. I did get it in after more cursing, crying, kicking, sweating, and bleeding. Note 3: The edges of the tank may be very sharp. Use gloves!
I finally got it fully secured today, July 18th. I used Frost King rubber foam adhesive weatherstripping to replace the rubber that lives between the straps and the tank, as well as between the tank and the car. I used the thickest stuff, I think 3/8", which certainly caused me more work to compress it in an already tight-fitting situation, but I figured it would be worth it and last longer. It lasted an additional removal and installation because I had to reroute the pump wiring harness, which brings me to Note 4: Have the wiring harness hanging down between the straps BEFORE installing the tank! I think I damaged the strap bolt threads trying to get everything back in a second time, but it's in.
That reminds me of another helpful note, Note 5: The strap bolts are long. If removing for the first time, it's fine to take one all the way out to get an idea of what you're dealing with. The other strap will hold the tank up. Another helpful note that I wish I had had all along is Note 6: The straps can absolutely be wiggled out from their mounts. You just need to twist them towards the outside of the car and wiggle them loose from their slots. Then they're out of the way and not smacking you in the face when you're wrestling a tank that likely has some gas sloshing around in it.
I still have to put the rest of the car back together, as well as pray that the line that is completely rotted through is just the vapor return line. Otherwise I have a fuel line job to add to the list of things I need to do before the car goes in once again for surgery. That list also includes replacing the rotted rear suspension components, wrestling that muffler back on, repairing whatever has gone bad on the top end while it say (gaskets, hopefully not injectors or valve train but who knows), repairing a door wiring harness, and whatever else I can do to make the job easier for the body shop because the more they can focus on just repairing the body, the more likely I'll be to get back a whole car this time. Grimy, bleeding fingers crossed.
Yep, you are stubborn, just like me. 12 years in a body shop with them telling you "2 weeks" for the entire time. You're lucky they didn't charge you storage fees.
Your car is dying a slow death, but faster than you can get ahead of it. I commend you for not giving up. "Someday" I hope to get to mine.
I am in CT also. You think you have corrosion problems now - wait until you see what that new "salt" they are using on the roads does to the underside of your car.
This cant be right. I put that gas tank in almost 3 years ago?! Not much has happened since the last update, at least IROC-wise. There were some cool trips, a wedding, a baby and a half, and who knows what else, but not much time for the Camaro. I finally got back under it recently because we are on borrowed time in this tiny house, and this thing has to be mobile soon in one way or another.
It seems every time I look at it I see something different. Nowadays, I almost always see a corpse. It's not just because I barely have time for sleep, let alone passion projects. The more I take stock of what needs to be done, the more I realize that this thing probably died that day in 2008...
Looking from the inside out on the damaged section, I'm realizing I can never drive this thing in the rain. It never occurred to me just what a half-assed job I got, despite paying more than I paid for the car. I'm realizing now that he didn't try to repair the car, just get it good enough to look OK while we got home. He didn't touch any of the inner layers of sheet metal, he just tried to weld on the outermost skin and filled in some of the gaps with household foam which surely is only going to promote rust.
Then there are the wide open gaps still left behind, where water can fly in unimpeded and collect in this mess of a cavity inside the quarter panel.
From the wheel well, I'm not sure if I'm seeing where the expanding foam busted through some existing rot, or if this is just more damage that wasn't touched. Either way, it's more holes.
So I'm looking at unaddressed damage combined with preexisting rot resulting in holes everywhere, holes leading to places where water should never be. I know there are those of you who know how to fix something like this, and may even think it's worth it. I definitely have the desire, but none of the skill or even rough idea how, and I certainly don't have the room or time right now. I apparently can't even pay to get it fixed, as no one is interested in this job. Instead, I think my best bet would be to just drive it like this for as long as it lasts. But how long would that even be? Continuing to look over the rest of the car, more things start scaring me. Things that were always there, but I am only now willing to see as an exhausted dad:
The panhard rod is bent, as is the upper support rod. I am having a tough time simulating that in my head without it involving permanent frame deformation. Even if the body just moved relative to the rear end, I find it hard to imagine that happening without permanent deformation. Furthermore, nothing was especially difficult to remove when I dropped the rear end, including the bent components, suggesting maybe there is a matching bend in the frame.
The gap between the T-top sockets front to back is half an inch longer on the passenger side than the driver's side. I mentioned this before and thought it could just be poor alignment by the shop that replaced it, but sighting down any line from passenger side to driver's side on the roof behind the T-tops, there's no kink anywhere. It looks seamless. It could be a very subtle and well-hidden error, or the entire car could be bent. Regardless, it still resulted in T-top and door window gaps that I don't know I can fix or at least compensate for.
There has always been a small rust hole under the driver's left foot, about where a clutch pedal would be if I had one. What I didn't notice was the rust actually bubbles all the way down the seam of the driver's side rocker panel. It looks pretty bad.
It's so weird looking at this car. I actually get this looking at any of my aged vehicles. I follow certain body panels and frame rails and it's like it's 1987. There's so much beautiful metal here. I'd say 90% of it is practically flawless! But then I'll hit one of these spots that may be nothing, may be ticking time bombs that I am powerless to diffuse, or may be major structural damage. These silly little defects that are so small in physical area, but can have such a massive effect. If I were to grit my teeth and push forward ignoring the quarter panel and floor pan rust and possible frame issues, I'm still in for many thousands of dollars and/or countless hours of work to rebuild a car that may never drive right, and will likely stink of mildew every time I drive it in the rain because there are so many holes in the body. I'll have my car back, but it will suck, and probably won't last long before rust is bubbling through that new expensive paint. And even then, it's not like the issues stop at the body. The interior is completely unusable at this point. Mice recently did some heavy and widespread damage now that they can't find a way in the house anymore. I need all new brake and fuel lines, the window mechanisms need work, hell pretty much the only thing that still works is the drivetrain!
So that got me thinking about why I've held onto it this long. Why this car? I dumped my first car way faster and I had way more memories in that one, and even that was nothing compared to the Impala which I also let go without much consternation. It's an IROC, but it's not particularly rare or valuable, and I can always build another just like it if I wanted. I narrowed it down to two things:
It was an excellent configuration. The combination of a 305 TPI, 700R4, and 2.77 gears was absolutely awesome on that 2008 trip and if there is one thing I love to do (and therefore one thing I need my cars to do), it's road trip. The 4-wheel discs are also a plus, and the B4C cooler is nice too. But...all those things are completely transferable. Even I know how to swap a drivetrain, modify the electricals, run hard fluid lines. I can turn any Camaro into the same car mechanically, so this one isn't much of an excuse.
It was one of the few things I can link to my late father. I'm sure I touched on this above, but just in case, we didn't do much together so the week or so we spent acquiring this car together towards the end of his life is a special memory to me, and I've always stored that memory in this car. The thing is, he didn't. When I got back home from totaling it, he offered to junk the thing and help me get a new one. A brand new one. A 2009. I turned it down on the premise of the new generation not having T-tops, but it was probably more a reflex to deny the fact that he was clearly not expecting to be around much longer if he was willing to drop that much money for a car. He didn't care about this car, I had only had it for barely a year!
I think becoming a father myself has forced me to get even closer to my dad, reflecting on how he was and how he might try to guide me if he were here. Not gonna lie, I think he'd be pretty impressed, but I think once he saw that garage, he'd tell me to get rid of that damn thing. Life's too short, go get something you can actually have fun in instead of endlessly trying to hold onto a lost cause that...no one actually cares about. Go get another one with your son and make that one special, and more importantly, actually drive the damn thing!
I'm 90% of the way there. I could tear this thing down to the bones in no time (it's almost there anyway), sell parts to fund the next one, but keep a few key items to make Camaro #3 a hybrid of all those that came before it. It will probably cost pretty close to what it would take to put this one back on the road, and it'll still take some labor (I want it to), but it will be better and won't take nearly as much time or frustration. I'll lose some subtle things that may be contained in this particular car, but looking at it now and just how much would have to be replaced, I think a lot of those things are already gone. Still though, from a lot of angles, it looks like an easy project, even for me. I could learn to paint, I almost had it. I can get a welder, it doesn't have to be pretty, just solid. But I can't fix a frame, and probably more importantly... I'm tired.
For old time's sake, I brightened up the only picture of this car in its former glory. Goddamn, she looked nice. What the hell happened...
Sorry to hear about this happening to your car. Especially after all the work you've done. Too much done to give up now, but maybe too far gone to keep going, rock in a hard place. I kinda know how you feel though. Hoping it all works out for you.
Especially after all the work you've done. Too much done to give up now, but maybe too far gone to keep going,
I think what I'm realizing now is that this is how it was in 2008. It's been garaged the entire time, none of this rot is new. The carpet was getting wet under the driver's left foot while I was still driving it. I think I just underestimated what was wrong with this car for so long because I wanted to bring this car back so bad, but for whatever reason I'm seeing it a bit more objectively now and realizing not only is it beyond my skill to fix, it's beyond anyone's desire to get fixed. I'm telling you, I saved a bunch of money over the years for this and have been willing to pay ridiculous amounts to body shops, and no one would take the job. I even clarified that all I'd be asking them to do is the body work and paint, and I'd take care of all the details (reassembly, weatherstripping, trim, etc.). Really though, it was probably a blessing in disguise. I probably would have spent another $10k+ and it would not have fixed the frame or the floor pan rot which are pretty big deals. Maybe if I was just trying to bring it back to drive it around town on sunny days, I could get away with it. But I need more from my cars!
It's really only a hard decision because I've been a member here for so long and seen some of the projects you all have done. You're all my heroes, and I wish I could do a tenth of what I've seen some of you do! I'm but a monkey with a wrench, however, and if it can't be unbolted or rewired, I'm rather useless.
95% of the way there. Sure are a lot of promising options out there. Some nice 87 IROC's that need parts that I have. Gotta do something with this one first...
I think if your dad wasn't sentimental about it, should make it ok to part with it. Or part it out, more like. There will always be parts of it in whatever camaro you replace it with.
Thats kinda how i see my 84 now. I had that car 28 yrs, lotta work went into it. Now most of its parts are in my 89 now. So it sorta lives on.
07-10-2012, 12:08 PM
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you don't like me very much do you ?
). I have the single w/o-AC bracket on order from a dealer so they don't break my steering wheel off trying to move her around the shop. Other than that, she's in their hands now! While I sit and funnel in the various parts and cash he'll need for the job, I'm looking ahead to the future. Dyno Don headers tops the list to replace those awful Flowtech pieces. The rear end cover is leaking, so I think I'll overbuild that with a TA girdle. I'll need new rear speakers since one got trashed in the wreck. The head unit doesn't work like it used to either, so that'll have to be replaced too. Might as well get an amp while I'm at it. Then it'll be time to learn interior design... 
