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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
This is a shopping guide to exhaust systems for LS swaps into a 3rd gen F-body. There are so many products, and so much mixing and matching of parts that can occur, that it is impossible for any one person to know what does and doesn't work. If you have tried something and know the outcome, then please post up! And don't forget about the sound clips!
The following links contain complimentary information that is referenced in this thread,
Pictures below show typical layout of an LS swapped exhaust system. The shape of LS engine oil pan and transmission does not lend itself to an exhaust cross-over like originally used in the car.
Single Exhaust: Headers and Y-pipe travel through the trans tunnel on each side of transmission, and the Y-pipe merges into a single pipe that tracks along the stock pathway over passenger side axle. Y-pipe sizes tend to be between 2.5 - 3.0 inch diameter, merging into 3.0 - 4.0 inch mid-pipe.
Dual Exhaust: Headers and pipe travel through the trans tunnel on each side of transmission, into an X-pipe that tracks along the stock pathway over passenger side axle. Exhaust sizes tend to be 2.5 or 3.0 inch diameter.
There is no common standard between manufacturers for how and where exhaust components mate up to each other (especially the Y-pipe). Fitment is unique to what engine mounts, transmission, trans mount, and possibly even torque arm was used during fit-up and testing. Those who want a bolt-in solution should buy a complete LS swap system from one vendor that has validated fit and function. Hawks Motorsports and Hooker BlackHeart have the only complete systems at the time of this writing. And these systems are unique to whether the car has a manual or auto transmission.
Complete LS swap systems are expensive though so it is common practice to save money by patching together exhaust components from different manufacturers. This usually results in the need to modify or even fabricate a Y-pipe from scratch to join together the different parts.
Manual Transmission: Headers are usually designed for the stock LS1 F-body T56 flywheel housing. Larger flywheel housings (e.g., Quick Time) may need to be notched for header primary tubes. This will invalidate the SFI rating of the housing, but personally I would still take it over a stock flywheel housing when clutch or flywheel scatters.
Another consideration with T56 is the extra length of transmission compared to stock 3rd gen. Trans mount, torque arm, driveshaft, and Y-pipe all come together at the rear of the trans and packaging gets tight in that area, especially with two 3" exhaust pipes. Choice of trans crossmember and torque arm becomes important in these matters. The crossmember must have enough space to allow passage of the exhaust pipes. And using a shorter torque arm can help with packaging. Refer to links at top of this thread for more information about trans crossmembers and torque arms.
Picture shows a Quick Time housing notched for clearance to headers
Auto Transmission: The main concern with auto trans is the width. The Y-pipe is threading a needle between transmission and passenger subframe. It is much easier to package 2.5 inch exhaust than 3.0 inch. If using 3.0 inch pipe then it might be necessary to flatten an area of the pipe in order to clear the passenger side subframe.
Ground Clearance: Two locations of common concern for poor ground clearance is under the trans crossmember, and the mid-pipe. Ground clearance will be very poor without a double hump trans crossmember. A double hump crossmember allows exhaust to be tucked up several inches higher. A guide to trans crossmember is linked at top of this thread.
Ground clearance of mid-pipe can become an issue when using larger 3.5 - 4.0 single exhaust, and when using dual 3.0 inch exhaust. Hawks Motorsports and Mufflex are known for good fitting single exhaust. Hooker BlackHeart is a 2.5 inch dual exhaust that fits well. You're pretty much on your own if you want dual 3.0 inch exhaust. Some people make their own from scratch, and some are adapting 4th gen F-body kits. I am hoping people share their experiences in this thread.
Turbocharging: Turbocharging is still for the custom fabricator. This thread does not cover that topic matter, but some turbocharger headers are listed below. A single turbocharger on passenger side allows for a single exhaust to run in stock location.
Products are listed in alphabetical order:
Cast Iron Manifolds
1998-2002 Camaro / Firebird
Stock 4th gen F-body exhaust manifolds will fit the 3rd gen chasssis.
Flowtech, https://www.holley.com/
Cast iron manifolds with 2.25 inch outlets. Natural cast iron and ceramic coated finishes. Universal fit, not 3rd gen F-body specific. Flowtech is a brand of the Holley company.
Hooker, https://www.holley.com/
Cast iron manifolds with black ceramic coated finish. Universal fit, not 3rd gen F-body specific. Hooker is a brand of the Holley company.
Shorty Headers
Hooker BlackHeart, https://www.holley.com/
304 stainless steel header for 1998-2002 Camaro. 1-3/4 inch primary with 2.25 inch collector size. Not known if this fits a 3rd gen F-body. Hooker BlackHeart is a brand of the Holley company.
Kooks, https://kooksheaders.com/
304 stainless steel with 1-7/8 inch primaries with 3 inch collectors.
Long Tube Headers
BRP Hot Rods, https://www.brphotrods.com/
1-3/4, 1-7/8, and 2 inch primaries available with 3 inch collector. Stepped primaries also available with stepped 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 inch; or stepped 1-7/8 to 2 inch. Ceramic coated.
Hawks Motorsports, https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/
The in-house brand name of Hawks Motorsports offers long-tube headers in 1-3/4, 1-7/8, 2 inch primary tubes. Most the Hawks brand headers are manufactured in the USA by Stainless Works exclusively for Hawks Motorsports. Build quality is exceptional but the headers do not have velocity spears. The 1-3/4 inch "budget LS1" header is sourced from China.
Hooker BlackHeart, https://www.holley.com/ -- Out of production -- 1-3/4 and 1-7/8 inch primaries with 3 inch collectors and velocity spear. 304 stainless steel; or mild steel that is painted or ceramic coated. Fitment is for use with the Hooker BlackHeart LS Swap system that pulls engine forward of typical. Proceed with caution if using different engine mounts and transmission crossmember. Hooker BlackHeart is a brand of the Holley company.
Kooks, https://kooksheaders.com/
304 stainless steel with options of 1-7/8 and 2 inch primaries with 3 inch collectors.
Racing Innovation & Supply, https://racinginnovationandsupply.com/
1-3/4 inch primaries with 3 inch collector. Very inexpensive. This might be a lesson in you get what you pay for.
Speed Engineering, https://speed-engineering.com
1-7/8 inch primaries and 3 inch collector with velocity spear. 304 stainless steel.
Turbo Headers
CXRacing, https://www.cxracing.com/
Turbo kit for LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body. T76 turbo for up to 700 Hp. Kit includes turbo headers, cross pipe, turbo, wastegate, and downpipe. Kit also available with intercooler and cold side piping.
Flowtech, https://www.holley.com/
Forward swept turbo manifolds with 3" collectors and V-band flange. Options of 1-3/4 and 1-7/8 inch primaries in 304 and 409 stainless steel with choices of finishes from natural, polished, painted, and ceramic coated. Universal fit, not 3rd gen F-body specific. Flowtech is a brand of the Holley company.
Hooker BlackHeart, https://www.holley.com/
Cast iron turbo manifold for single turbo application. Passenger side manifold has an integrated 2.25 inch crossover merge and 3 inch turbo outlet with V-band connections. Crossover tube is available with fitments for 4L60 / 4L80; TH350 / TH400 / Powerglide; T56 / 6L80; and T56 with Quick Time flywheel housing. Hooker BlackHeart is a brand of the Holley company.
Stainless Works, https://stainlessworks.net/
Down and forward swept manifold with 1-3/4 inch primaries and 3 inch collector. Up and forward swept manifold with 1-7/8 inch primaries and 3" collectors. 304 stainless steel.
Full Exhaust Systems
Hawks Motorsports, https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/
2" primary headers with 3" Y-pipe into a 3.5" merge and full size 3.5" muffler in stock location. Single hideaway tailpipe. Versions with and without V-band flanges. Manufactured by Stainless Works exclusively for Hawks Motorsports.
Hooker BlackHeart, https://www.holley.com/
2.5" true duals with X-pipe made with 304 stainless steel. Mates to the Hooker BlackHeart LS swap headers. Designed for use with the Hooker BlackHeart LS swap engine mounts and trans crossmember with integrated torque arm mount. Hooker BlackHeart is a brand of the Holley company.
Kooks, https://kooksheaders.com/
3 inch true duals with X-pipe made with 304 stainless steel. Catted and non-catted versions. Mates to the Kooks long tube headers for LS swap into 3rd gen F-body.
Cat Back Exhaust Kits
No kits with less than 3" mid-pipe are listed here
Borla, https://www.borla.com/
Stainless steel 3" cat back with dual tail pipes and quad tips. Passenger side tail pipe bypasses muffler.
Flowmaster, https://www.holley.com/
Aluminized steel 3" cat back with cross flow muffler and dual tail pipes. Flowmaster is a brand of the Holley company.
MadHammer, https://www.madhammer2.com/
Home of the GMMG exhaust. Stainless steel 3" cat back with dual tail pipes.
Magnaflow, https://www.magnaflow.com/
Stainless steel 3" cat back with cross flow muffler and dual tail pipes.
Mufflex, https://mufflex-performance.com/
Aluminized steel 3.5" and 4" cat backs. Variations with single hideaway tail pipe and dual tail pipes. Uses a variety of straight thru and cross flow mufflers from Flowmaster, Magnaflow, and Spintech. Will work with you to select a different muffler if you like.
Stainless Works, https://stainlessworks.net/
3" cat back with cross flow muffler and dual turn-down tail pipes.
4th Gen True Duals
Those who are willing to do custom fabrication might be able to fit these 4th gen F-body exhaust kits into a 3rd Gen F-body. Expect to change location of exhaust hangers and custom fabricate exhaust forward of the X-pipe.
Speed Engineering, https://speed-engineering.com
3 inch true duals for 4th gen F-body. Made with 304 stainless steel. Catted and non-catted versions. Over the axle version and dump before axle version.
Texas Speed, https://www.texas-speed.com/
3 inch true duals for 4th gen F-body. Made with 304 stainless steel. Over the axle version and dump before axle version.
Note: I won't talk about the ebay parts that are knockoffs of products developed and invented by others. It is a reality of our hobby though and people do use that stuff. I'll just say this once and then hold my peace: Invention of new products for 3rd gen F-body's does not happen in Asia. It happens here in the USA and if you don't spend your money here then the businesses that innovate might fold and our hobby will be the worse for it.
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
I am clearly waaaaaaaaaaay out of date in regard to "Off The Shelf" Exhaust Components that fit Third-Gens.
I have been Fabricating Headers and Exhaust for more than 10 or 15 Years...
The last time I looked at Headers for a Third-Gen (Long-Primaries) there were 2 Options:
-Headman for Gen-1 SBC (better ground clearance).
-Hooker Comp/ Super-Comp for Gen-1 SBC (better performing for heavier breathing SBCs).
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
The shape of LS engine oil pan and transmission does not lend itself to an exhaust cross-over like originally used in the car
Sorry I am late to the party. I have a modified TPI exhaust on my car with a crossover I can try to find my pictures. My oil pan is no longer in prouction, but one of the Holley pans is the same dimensions and will allow a crossover exhaust
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
Spohn trans crossmember is straight across and doesn't leave room for exhaust. As far as I know you'll be making / modifying your own Y-pipe and it will be terrible ground clearance going under the trans crossmember. If you can run the exhaust out to the passenger side like stock then you'll bypass the trans crossmember.
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
I second that, the Spohn cross member is great for a stock exhaust system. If you really want to run a true dual exhaust system you will need to change out that cross member. I went with the Hawks T56 cross member as an affordable solution. my Spohn cross member is currently on CL for sale for the last year.
The Hooker BlackHeart system is spendy but engineered very well and the fitment is spot on. In addition it sounds really good.
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
The hooker blackheart cross member is the way to go. It offers the best "room" to run custom exhausts. It is also significantly beefier since you can relocate the torque arm to it from the trans tailhousing. Its more pricey, but well spent.
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
What happened?
They do not fit with the 4L60E/ 65E/ 70E Transmission?
They fit with those transmissions but they stopped making them due to new EPA regulations. Swap headers for our cars just became one with the dinosaurs.
Re: Exhaust Systems with LS swaps into 3rd gen F-body
Great info all in one place.
I was unaware of the Kooks system. I want tonuse the Holley x-member and full dual setup. Just need to find a header that can stand in for their discontinued long tubes.
01-29-2022, 07:40 PM
