Carbbed 5.3 swap
01-13-2016, 10:19 PM
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Car: 1986 Camaro Berlinetta
Engine: treefiddy
Carbbed 5.3 swap
Hello! I'm 16 and just recently got my second car. I know this has been asked a million times but I have a few questions about what I'll have to do to make this work. My uncle has dozens of 5.3's with 4l60e's in his salvage yard and the carb 350 in my berlinetta runs like doodoo.
I was thinking I wanted to go to a carb setup with an Edelbrock performer intake and an electronic timing box because I simply don't want to adapt the wiring. (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7118/overview/) Does that box control the 4l60e too? It doesnt say it will.. I don't want to keep the 2004r because in the very few times I've driven this car, I feel like the trans is on its way out.
I've read that if I use 1" setback motor mounts I can use the original driveshaft. What about the transmission crossmember?
I remember seeing some $200 swap headers on Ebay so I'll use those.
Will the power steering pump from the truck work in the car? I know I'll have to get a different alternator bracket.
Will there be clearance for the carb under the hood? The air cleaner on the 350 in the car holds up the hood a little already. Might have to do something with a hood scoop or maybe a 3" cowl hood.
Will that controller box thing have an obd2 port? Or is that only on the stock ecm?
THANKS!!
I was thinking I wanted to go to a carb setup with an Edelbrock performer intake and an electronic timing box because I simply don't want to adapt the wiring. (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7118/overview/) Does that box control the 4l60e too? It doesnt say it will.. I don't want to keep the 2004r because in the very few times I've driven this car, I feel like the trans is on its way out.
I've read that if I use 1" setback motor mounts I can use the original driveshaft. What about the transmission crossmember?
I remember seeing some $200 swap headers on Ebay so I'll use those.
Will the power steering pump from the truck work in the car? I know I'll have to get a different alternator bracket.
Will there be clearance for the carb under the hood? The air cleaner on the 350 in the car holds up the hood a little already. Might have to do something with a hood scoop or maybe a 3" cowl hood.
Will that controller box thing have an obd2 port? Or is that only on the stock ecm?
THANKS!!
01-14-2016, 03:16 PM
#2
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.
First, let me say I am NOT a fan of putting a carb on LS-type engines. There are several reasons, and your statements and questions fall right into my lap.
To begin, you say your "carb 350 in my berlinetta runs like doodoo". Since 3rd gens never came with a carb'd 350, I'll assume an earlier carb system was swapped in. For the record, I rebuilt my first carb in 1969, and my last owned carb'd vehicle was in 2010 - there have been dozens in between, including other people's vehicles. The 3rd gen CC q-jet was absolutely the best carb I've ever worked on. Your running issues with the 350 are likely tied to the carb/distributor system. So, I think I can speak with a certain level of authority that carbs are antiquated and no way to go on a street-driven vehicle, especially when the engine you're talking about already has a very fine EFI system on it (especially if you've got an "in" with a junkyard).
I know there will be those that cry "foul" because they love their carb; all I can say is they suffer from tunnel vision. I can maybe see doing a carb on a drag race only LS vehicle, but that's my limit.
Okay, why do I say all this? For starters, that carb system will not control an electronic transmission. So you're looking at an extra grand for a controller (the GM unit, at least). There go all your "savings" from going carb: I would argue they don't exist to start with, as you could do everything you need to convert a truck engine to passenger car equipment in a 3rd gen, AND buy HP tuners for what it'll cost you to convert an LS engine with electronic automatic transmission in a 3rd gen. In addition that particular controller only works with 24x crank sensor, so either your 5.3 will have to be 24x, or you're going to have to get the crank modified to 24x (may be a 58x kit out there, I haven't seen it).
Stick with EFI. Adapting the harness into the car is simply a matter of taking your time and paying attention to detail. Yes, you'll have to tune out VATS in the PCM, but remember, you're buying HP Tuners with the money you won't be spending on the carb conversion stuff and the transmission controller. You'll be light years ahead of whatever you can do with that carb system with EFI.
LS1 intake manifolds are plentiful. Depending upon your 5.3, the throttle body should fit on it. LS6 is even better, but they cost a lot more. You could also do a Holley carb-looking intake with an elbow and throttle body (have to buy fuel rails as well, which increases the cost). If you get a DBW throttle body, get the accelerator pedal and harness out of the donor vehicle as well.
Truck oil pans hang down pretty low in a 3rd gen, you'll either need to get an f-body oil pan (can be difficult to locate, and can be pricey), or the Holley oil pan (the GM "muscle car" pan kit is lower priced, but hangs down just as low as the truck oil pan). Some have modified the truck pan to make it shallower - I don't support that approach, as you reduce oil capacity by doing that.
The factory 3rd gen transmission crossmember won't work with an LS-type 4L60E, although you could modify it to make it work. You'll have to do something about the torque arm mount if your 4L60E doesn't come from an f-body. BMR makes a TA kit that uses it's own crossmember to mount the front end of the TA. Or, you can find an f-body 4L60E tailshaft housing and mount and swap it onto your 4x2 truck 4L60E.
That's probably a lot more than you expected, but that's the way I see it.
First, let me say I am NOT a fan of putting a carb on LS-type engines. There are several reasons, and your statements and questions fall right into my lap.
To begin, you say your "carb 350 in my berlinetta runs like doodoo". Since 3rd gens never came with a carb'd 350, I'll assume an earlier carb system was swapped in. For the record, I rebuilt my first carb in 1969, and my last owned carb'd vehicle was in 2010 - there have been dozens in between, including other people's vehicles. The 3rd gen CC q-jet was absolutely the best carb I've ever worked on. Your running issues with the 350 are likely tied to the carb/distributor system. So, I think I can speak with a certain level of authority that carbs are antiquated and no way to go on a street-driven vehicle, especially when the engine you're talking about already has a very fine EFI system on it (especially if you've got an "in" with a junkyard).
I know there will be those that cry "foul" because they love their carb; all I can say is they suffer from tunnel vision. I can maybe see doing a carb on a drag race only LS vehicle, but that's my limit.
Okay, why do I say all this? For starters, that carb system will not control an electronic transmission. So you're looking at an extra grand for a controller (the GM unit, at least). There go all your "savings" from going carb: I would argue they don't exist to start with, as you could do everything you need to convert a truck engine to passenger car equipment in a 3rd gen, AND buy HP tuners for what it'll cost you to convert an LS engine with electronic automatic transmission in a 3rd gen. In addition that particular controller only works with 24x crank sensor, so either your 5.3 will have to be 24x, or you're going to have to get the crank modified to 24x (may be a 58x kit out there, I haven't seen it).
Stick with EFI. Adapting the harness into the car is simply a matter of taking your time and paying attention to detail. Yes, you'll have to tune out VATS in the PCM, but remember, you're buying HP Tuners with the money you won't be spending on the carb conversion stuff and the transmission controller. You'll be light years ahead of whatever you can do with that carb system with EFI.
LS1 intake manifolds are plentiful. Depending upon your 5.3, the throttle body should fit on it. LS6 is even better, but they cost a lot more. You could also do a Holley carb-looking intake with an elbow and throttle body (have to buy fuel rails as well, which increases the cost). If you get a DBW throttle body, get the accelerator pedal and harness out of the donor vehicle as well.
Truck oil pans hang down pretty low in a 3rd gen, you'll either need to get an f-body oil pan (can be difficult to locate, and can be pricey), or the Holley oil pan (the GM "muscle car" pan kit is lower priced, but hangs down just as low as the truck oil pan). Some have modified the truck pan to make it shallower - I don't support that approach, as you reduce oil capacity by doing that.
The factory 3rd gen transmission crossmember won't work with an LS-type 4L60E, although you could modify it to make it work. You'll have to do something about the torque arm mount if your 4L60E doesn't come from an f-body. BMR makes a TA kit that uses it's own crossmember to mount the front end of the TA. Or, you can find an f-body 4L60E tailshaft housing and mount and swap it onto your 4x2 truck 4L60E.
That's probably a lot more than you expected, but that's the way I see it.
01-14-2016, 06:09 PM
#3
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Car: 1986 Camaro Berlinetta
Engine: treefiddy
Re: Carbbed 5.3 swap
Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.
First, let me say I am NOT a fan of putting a carb on LS-type engines. There are several reasons, and your statements and questions fall right into my lap.
To begin, you say your "carb 350 in my berlinetta runs like doodoo". Since 3rd gens never came with a carb'd 350, I'll assume an earlier carb system was swapped in. For the record, I rebuilt my first carb in 1969, and my last owned carb'd vehicle was in 2010 - there have been dozens in between, including other people's vehicles. The 3rd gen CC q-jet was absolutely the best carb I've ever worked on. Your running issues with the 350 are likely tied to the carb/distributor system. So, I think I can speak with a certain level of authority that carbs are antiquated and no way to go on a street-driven vehicle, especially when the engine you're talking about already has a very fine EFI system on it (especially if you've got an "in" with a junkyard).
I know there will be those that cry "foul" because they love their carb; all I can say is they suffer from tunnel vision. I can maybe see doing a carb on a drag race only LS vehicle, but that's my limit.
Okay, why do I say all this? For starters, that carb system will not control an electronic transmission. So you're looking at an extra grand for a controller (the GM unit, at least). There go all your "savings" from going carb: I would argue they don't exist to start with, as you could do everything you need to convert a truck engine to passenger car equipment in a 3rd gen, AND buy HP tuners for what it'll cost you to convert an LS engine with electronic automatic transmission in a 3rd gen. In addition that particular controller only works with 24x crank sensor, so either your 5.3 will have to be 24x, or you're going to have to get the crank modified to 24x (may be a 58x kit out there, I haven't seen it).
Stick with EFI. Adapting the harness into the car is simply a matter of taking your time and paying attention to detail. Yes, you'll have to tune out VATS in the PCM, but remember, you're buying HP Tuners with the money you won't be spending on the carb conversion stuff and the transmission controller. You'll be light years ahead of whatever you can do with that carb system with EFI.
LS1 intake manifolds are plentiful. Depending upon your 5.3, the throttle body should fit on it. LS6 is even better, but they cost a lot more. You could also do a Holley carb-looking intake with an elbow and throttle body (have to buy fuel rails as well, which increases the cost). If you get a DBW throttle body, get the accelerator pedal and harness out of the donor vehicle as well.
Truck oil pans hang down pretty low in a 3rd gen, you'll either need to get an f-body oil pan (can be difficult to locate, and can be pricey), or the Holley oil pan (the GM "muscle car" pan kit is lower priced, but hangs down just as low as the truck oil pan). Some have modified the truck pan to make it shallower - I don't support that approach, as you reduce oil capacity by doing that.
The factory 3rd gen transmission crossmember won't work with an LS-type 4L60E, although you could modify it to make it work. You'll have to do something about the torque arm mount if your 4L60E doesn't come from an f-body. BMR makes a TA kit that uses it's own crossmember to mount the front end of the TA. Or, you can find an f-body 4L60E tailshaft housing and mount and swap it onto your 4x2 truck 4L60E.
That's probably a lot more than you expected, but that's the way I see it.
First, let me say I am NOT a fan of putting a carb on LS-type engines. There are several reasons, and your statements and questions fall right into my lap.
To begin, you say your "carb 350 in my berlinetta runs like doodoo". Since 3rd gens never came with a carb'd 350, I'll assume an earlier carb system was swapped in. For the record, I rebuilt my first carb in 1969, and my last owned carb'd vehicle was in 2010 - there have been dozens in between, including other people's vehicles. The 3rd gen CC q-jet was absolutely the best carb I've ever worked on. Your running issues with the 350 are likely tied to the carb/distributor system. So, I think I can speak with a certain level of authority that carbs are antiquated and no way to go on a street-driven vehicle, especially when the engine you're talking about already has a very fine EFI system on it (especially if you've got an "in" with a junkyard).
I know there will be those that cry "foul" because they love their carb; all I can say is they suffer from tunnel vision. I can maybe see doing a carb on a drag race only LS vehicle, but that's my limit.
Okay, why do I say all this? For starters, that carb system will not control an electronic transmission. So you're looking at an extra grand for a controller (the GM unit, at least). There go all your "savings" from going carb: I would argue they don't exist to start with, as you could do everything you need to convert a truck engine to passenger car equipment in a 3rd gen, AND buy HP tuners for what it'll cost you to convert an LS engine with electronic automatic transmission in a 3rd gen. In addition that particular controller only works with 24x crank sensor, so either your 5.3 will have to be 24x, or you're going to have to get the crank modified to 24x (may be a 58x kit out there, I haven't seen it).
Stick with EFI. Adapting the harness into the car is simply a matter of taking your time and paying attention to detail. Yes, you'll have to tune out VATS in the PCM, but remember, you're buying HP Tuners with the money you won't be spending on the carb conversion stuff and the transmission controller. You'll be light years ahead of whatever you can do with that carb system with EFI.
LS1 intake manifolds are plentiful. Depending upon your 5.3, the throttle body should fit on it. LS6 is even better, but they cost a lot more. You could also do a Holley carb-looking intake with an elbow and throttle body (have to buy fuel rails as well, which increases the cost). If you get a DBW throttle body, get the accelerator pedal and harness out of the donor vehicle as well.
Truck oil pans hang down pretty low in a 3rd gen, you'll either need to get an f-body oil pan (can be difficult to locate, and can be pricey), or the Holley oil pan (the GM "muscle car" pan kit is lower priced, but hangs down just as low as the truck oil pan). Some have modified the truck pan to make it shallower - I don't support that approach, as you reduce oil capacity by doing that.
The factory 3rd gen transmission crossmember won't work with an LS-type 4L60E, although you could modify it to make it work. You'll have to do something about the torque arm mount if your 4L60E doesn't come from an f-body. BMR makes a TA kit that uses it's own crossmember to mount the front end of the TA. Or, you can find an f-body 4L60E tailshaft housing and mount and swap it onto your 4x2 truck 4L60E.
That's probably a lot more than you expected, but that's the way I see it.
01-15-2016, 12:02 PM
#4
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
The truck PCM has a terminal for the serial data. The OBD II connector would have to come out of the donor vehicle, or you wire in a new one. Pretty simple, really - I have a truck PCM running the engine and 4L80E in my '57 Chevy, with OBD II connector, for what that's worth. I bought an OBD II connector and wired it in since my engine/trans/PCM/harness didn't have the connector (3 wires to get it to work - serial data from the PCM, battery power, ground).
01-16-2016, 01:58 PM
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Car: 1986 Camaro Berlinetta
Engine: treefiddy
Re: Carbbed 5.3 swap
The truck PCM has a terminal for the serial data. The OBD II connector would have to come out of the donor vehicle, or you wire in a new one. Pretty simple, really - I have a truck PCM running the engine and 4L80E in my '57 Chevy, with OBD II connector, for what that's worth. I bought an OBD II connector and wired it in since my engine/trans/PCM/harness didn't have the connector (3 wires to get it to work - serial data from the PCM, battery power, ground).
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