blakecharles

Wow!!! only $500 for SSW swap headers?! Dude if this offer would have been on the table from the start I would have jumped on it. I'm just going to be real... I cannot justify getting the 1 7/8" x 3" headers that I really want for a California Car (San Francisco). They will pull you over and do visual inspection and portable sniffer. Not to mention that it's not easy to get a smog shop to pass your car. I also drive the car on occasion and have 3 kids. For me, it just didn't add up.

Hawks is a great company BTW.

blakecharles

Just got mine

Slush92RS

iTrader: (6)

Guess there will never be a set of 1 7/8 "budget" headers made!!!!! I would be first in line for that purchase. I need big tubes for my Procharged 402 in progress.

hawksthirdgen

HI,
I do have the SSW 1 7/8 headers in stock if you like.
Thanks,Bruce

Slush92RS

iTrader: (6)

HI,
I don't have an extra "arm and a leg" of that $1100 for those

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

If there is enough demand, the market will follow

blakecharles

they said that they plan to make them in the future but nothing off the ground yet

Sojer

Lsx swap headers for cheap but I would need bigger no 4 8-5.7 here when I go lsx

Dakota W.

Going lsx because 305 are slow bull, huh?

0078red1

If you have the normal ls1 then 1-5/8 will do but anything bigger the headers need to go up

blakecharles

FYI - No such thing as swap headers for cheap (at least not for thirdgens). I don't expect that these headers are going to last.

from what I see they are not stainless and will most likely rust later down the line. Nobody can make a header cheaper than hawks. after you add up all the parts needed, the welding and fact that they are already coated...

These will work, but I wouldn't say they are comparable...

STREETDEMON

the hawks are not coated.....

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Some grades of stainless will rust

abadv8

I really lucked out when I got mine. I think they were $250 (less than $300 shipped) for stainless 1-3/4”. After I received mine, I see the vendor downgraded to 1-5/8” primaries. After seeing that, I measured mine. They were, in fact, 1-3/4”.

The only thing I didn’t like about them was that they contacted the passenger side sub-frame when first installed. It was an easy fix in the end though. After about 3,000 miles they still look good, and sound nice.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Any "stainless" will rust. That's because "stainless" is a misnomer.

The correct industry term is "corrosion resistant steel", abbreviated "CRES". Yes, there are different grades, and some will corrode more readily than others.

IMO, it's a good idea to coat headers, even if they are CRES. The heat insulating properties of ceramic coating is just as valuable as the corrosion preventing properties.

abadv8

Something else to keep in mind about stainless is its ability to withstand elevated operating temperatures, when compared against mild steel. This is primarily due to the chromium content in stainless steel. This chromium produces a chromium oxide on the surface on the material, and prevents further corrosion, all while improving the operating envelope. Here are some figures:

Melting Temperatures (in degrees Fahrenheit):
Carbon Steel – 2600-2800
Stainless Steel – 2750
Chromium – 3380
Iron Oxide – 2850
Chromium Oxide - 4415

So, you can see that the base mild and stainless steels exhibit similar characteristics. However, when we throw the oxides into the mix, they differ greatly.

People choose stainless for more than its pretty appearance.

Sojer

Yeah lol they are I should renamed it to 305 faster than I thought. But I have LSX in my eyes bad 415ci mmmmm but a 383 will more likely come this year

Gecz28

iTrader: (5)

would these be good for a stock or bolt ls1??
if they do rust, just wrap them

im not looking to put $5k + into my engine anytime soon so these would work in the mean time

Willie B.

Does anyone know or have experience with swap headers and the 1" forward motor mounts? I don't want to buy headers and then find out I need to change the motor mounts to get them to fit.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

You want to put the LSx in the same place as the SBC, use the "1 in setback" mounts

blakecharles

I ended up re-using the MLS gaskets that came of the exhaust manifolds. The gaskets that come with these are vary thick!!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Ideal for stck/ mild motors or hot 4.8/5.3's

Mls gaskets are excellent. I reuse them until they fall apart

Willie B.

The 1" forward mounts have already been installed. I been riding with them for a while now. The manifolds fit fine, I was just wondering if anyone tried them with long tube headers. Just curious

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I had to move my engine forward 1" for the blower to clear the wiper motor so it's in the same place as a non-setback SBC plate

SSW's fit fine

Disclaimer, I built my own solid mounts to adjust the height and level of the engine and collector clearance. There is plenty of room around the headers, so a generic SBC non-setback plate will likely clear fine. Minimal clearancing at worst, much like 3rd gen SBC headers which always needed a little help

Mine are the SSW headers, not the knockoffs, but having used both, they fit great in the same places, tight in the same places, collector locations nearly identical. Only difference is O2 angle

Willie B.

Thanks for the info, now that I know I might just get me a set in the next month or two. Trying to decided between a shot of gas and headers

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Headers, more power constantly

Gecz28

iTrader: (5)

i tried to order the ones from racing innovations and didnt have luck online. i tried calling but couldnt get an answer. i emailed him and an hour later he actually called me!
he said they were in stock and should ship today and should have them before the end of the week! i cant wait to see what these look like in person. they dont have to be perfect, the just need to be better than the stock manifolds i have on my stock ls1.
i think these will be perfect for my needs
i will post pics when i get them

Willie B.

If those 1 5/8 are good enough for a ls1 should be close enough for a cam only 5.3? It's a 228r or should I Just go with larger tubes?

Gecz28

iTrader: (5)

got mine today, im happy with them, could be cleaned up a bit but i guess for $300 shipped, you cant beat them

Dakota W.

I'm no expert, but aren't those holes suppose to be round inside the collector?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

you get what you pay for....

STREETDEMON

this made me laugh a little...sometimes you don't. getting what you pay for isn't bad, it's over spending for the value of the work/item that is the real crime.

Gregs_GSXR

I have mine on and installed, for the price you can't go wrong, headers you can always upgrade later, however a G for headers and y pipe ? come on thats just crazy you can put that into other places on the car. I'll run my ebay swap headers for a while.

86White_T/A305

I should be getting my headers tomorrow also. Anyone buying these already know they are budget friendly alternative.They are not max power potential headers.Since I have stock manifolds on my car still with a 3 inch catback.I get to see a direct comparison of how much i gain from doing these headers and a 3 inch y pipe along with a qtp cutout.

If I can get a solid 20-30 hp gain at the wheels Ill be happy with them.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Exactly

I am guessing you're defending these cheap poor quality headers? Have you seen any of the pictures here? The people are getting EXACTLY what they are paying for here. The quality of work here is garbage. I ACTUALLY expect better out of a Chinese product than that. It looks worse than I welded them up. I don't have steady enough hands to do good looking TIG welds but when I welded my V bands onto my SW headers I thought a TIG weld couldn't look worse, but this thread proves me wrong. And there is NO WAY you think that those collectors are good. The tubes aren't round, they aren't even, it looks like a child with a hammer put them together.

Look at those flanges, it looks like someone cut them out by hand with a torch

My Stainless works headers weren't cheap, but there is absolutely no way I could have built them cheaper than SW did. And I looked, you cant buy all the tubing and bends for what you pay for a set of their headers, so if you're just too poor to afford them, so be it. Stop ragging on well made products that support Americans and are made in America.

Gregs_GSXR

No one is knocking the American built stuff, just like auto makers, they need to price them so the American people can buy them. Even some of the big header companies don't have sell headers for as much as the SW ones cost. The SW are quality but when they cost more then ls swap engine and tranny there is a problem with the price. It maybe just money, but hand us the difference and I'm sure all of us will buy the SW sets.

STREETDEMON

Scooter, at no point in my last post was I bashing or supporting either product. I have coated BRP mids on my car, American made, half the price of the SW units. Next time check with the poster in a PM and find out what they really mean before you make your accusations. Back to topic please.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

I apologize if they isn't what you meant. Most people here are defending these POS's but saying that SW units are "overpriced" isn't fair either. I don't think the quality of the BRP are in the same league as SW, or American Racing, or Kooks etc. They are all around the same price, because that is what they cost. Also the mid lengths are shorter and require less material and time to make, so that isn't an equal comparison. BRP's are also only mild steel, you can't compare them to a stainless header.

Show me that I am wrong on the pricing of **most** full length stainless headers and they are "overpriced" and I'll shut my mouth on this board. IMO SW, Kooks, American racing are all on the LOW side of stainless full length headers when you really start looking at swap header pricing.

abadv8

Meh... better than open ports on the heads, and they keep the exhaust gasses out of the passenger compartment. I'd say they're alright.

I wish I had a decent tube bender, I'd just make up my own set (for personal use). 1-3/4" SS304 16 ga goes $6 a foot (for someone who buys in reasonable quantities). $150 for 25 feet should see you through a set of headers. Add another $20 for flanges (by weight and laser time), $20 for collectors (3 inch exhaust tubing), some welding gas, electricity, and filler rod, and and you've got yourself a set of headers for about $200 (less labor costs).

So, that gives you $800 to cover labor, shop overhead, and depreciate tooling. That's where the US prices come from. We have tremendous labor and overhead costs when compared to overseas manufacturers. In addition, "swap" headers are still a niche market. So, you have to amortize the tooling over a very small run of parts, with few opportunities to recoup the investment. That translates to higher production costs and, maintaining a reasonable margin, higher market prices.

Just a guess, but the merge could be cleaned up at the factory, prior to welding the collector on, in probably 15-20 minutes ($30 US labor cost). Or, if you're really bothered by it, cut the merge off, clean up the primaries, and weld the merge back on. Or don't... I didn't.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

That's all pretty funny. Try adding in the cost of the bender, because anyone that wants to make his own is going to need to pony up for one and the dies. And stainless LS flanges are more than $20, unless you can create your own file, so add in the cost of the software, plus the setup fees for a shop, unless you have your own laser, or water jet so add that into the cost. Don't forget to add the cost of the welder, albeit a GMAW or GTAW, gas, filler metal, electric. Not to mention that even if you have ALL that already, you're not going to get them all correct the first time, so you're going to be making some of the tubes more than once.

Yep $200 for a set of STAINLESS headers

Or for most people, buying a bunch of bends and straight tubing, and your right up there to the cost of buying them. As I said, I looked into making them and I am at the cost of just buying them, AND I already have a Miller 250 syncrowave

abadv8

Feel free to give me your insightful manufacturing engineering analysis and cost roll. Based on your “buy a water jet, a bender, and welder and include those in your costs” (of course I’ve paraphrased here), I’m not convinced that you have any idea how a manufacturing facility works.

Gecz28

iTrader: (5)

these are a cheap alternative ! end of argument !!!

btw has anyone here looked at the tags on their clothes? or where their shoes where made? where your tv made? how about the computer/phone were you are seeing these posts?? i guess america makes all of them?!?! no, americans are fat, lazy and complain they arent being paid enough. we are greedy.

in general, why isnt everyone driving a ferrari? or a lambo? a Z06 or new Z28?? how come we dont all run a 8 sec 1/4? whats a matter are we to cheap to afford that stuff?
yes, we make do with what we have and can afford !
anyone who buys these is saying these are a decent header for the money, they arent a ferrari, but they are a third gen lol

Dakota W.

If you're willing to pay $300 for a polished turd, then more power to you. You wouldn't see that type of craftsmanship on my car, and it's a thirdgen.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

as said above these are a cheap alternative...and it shows. only way I would run these is so I could save for the stainless works headers. The tubes in those collectors look horrible.....and don't even get me started on those flanges...wtf!

scooter

iTrader: (11)

You just said YOU could make them for $200. I'm saying YOU as a personal maker would need to buy all that stuff to make a set of headers. Even if you had all the stuff to do it, the average Joe can't build a set for $200 by buying straight tubing without buying some pretty expensive tools. Coming back around to the point that the SW ones are "about the right cost" at $900. I can't buy the pre-made bends and all the other materials needed to make them for $900 not including my electric bill or time.

You are correct about overhead and all, but $800 sounds about right to actually produce the time to make them. Shops around here charge $60 an hour or more for labor. So 10-14 hours labor to actually manufacture the headers is not that far off the mark. It takes skilled labor a certain amount of time to TIG all that stainless, CNC benders to bend all the tubing, materials, shop space, welding material, electric. All of that has to be considered when purchasing something.

People think everything is overpriced because of the undercutting from the cheap overseas labor and materials and people thinking that these cheap $300 are "good" and, potentially, well made are delusional. They are absolute junk, but that may be what they can afford and I am not knocking them for buying what is in his/her budget. I am saying that these are not in any way a comparison for the SW headers, and if you can't AFFORD the SW headers, stop saying they are a "rip off", god forbid SW actually makes a profit off something so they can continue to make swap headers for the Hot Rod hobby.

One guy on NastyZ28 actually visited the facility at SW and its a small operation. They used his car to fab and pattern the 2nd gen swap headers. It isn't a multi-million dollar facility with hundreds of workers, it's essentially a small place that does fab work. They make LOTS of swap headers and coming up with new products isn't cheap. SW has actually started a second business to make "affordable" swap headers. They sell them under a different brand now.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Hear hear.

I would rather run stock manifolds than put these $300 headers on my car and leave power on the table or have the manifolds extrude honed.

86White_T/A305

This seems to be striking up some heated opinions lol. Guys lets not knock on eachother for what you do or dont put on your own car. We all know the cheaper stainless headers arent perfect by any means,they wont give you the max gain for power.Is it a budget friendly option for people to do an ls swap who dont like the looks of the stock manifolds and maybe make some extra power..sure.Do I expect the world and then some from them..absolutely not.

Im from Canada so the argument of supporting where the headers are made is mute for me lol....if its a decent enough product to support what I need it to do then I dont care where its made..you still deserve the money for it.

I dont doubt the SSw headers are a great product in every aspect and I dont doubt what it is worth to mass produce such a product.But my only gripe is for the cost of the 1 3/4 headers vs hp gain value compared to the "1 5/8" semi round cheap headers vs hp gain...if any. I cant say ive seen anyone make and dyno claims switching from one to the other to realistcally say spending the extra for ssw headers is worth not just cause of their craftsmanship but the hp gain is its weight in gold.

I plan on using these cheap headers since Ive already dynoed my car with stock manifolds,see how much power my car makes after the new headers with a new 3 inch y pipe.Id be shocked if I see 30hp more and if so..I cant complain for $300=30whp. But if the ssw headers gave me maybe 50whp for $800+ then its not as great a bang for my buck..power wise..but they would last alot longer due to its quality.

Sorry for the long post lol..I see where everyone is coming from though with valid points for and against certain things is all.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Mine are doing fine . bolt on ls1,t56 and 3:73s not tuned for headers or new gear

86White_T/A305

That was a nice run...wouldve had him if the launch was perfect

Ill most likely install my headers and cutout this weekend.Havent booked any dyno time yet.havent decided if I want to retune now or wait a lil longer and do it after a set of gears.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

ugh that announcer sucks "4thgen camaro and 5th gen camaro"