86White_T/A305

So here I am with my lovely insomnia at 3am and out of boredom I jump onto ls1tech classifieds.Now we all know how much of a zoo that section of the boards never sleeps...parts come and GO!

Now Ive been looking for a good set of 243 heads for awhile to put on my lq4 before I initially swapped my ls1 out since last yr but some guys asked wayy to much for heads in rough shape or my biggest problem was getting ppl willing to ship over the canadian border.

By luck,a seller just listed he was pulling his ls2 243 heads off his tbss that have yellow springs with 70,000 miles on them,no rockers for 300 obo and was looking to see how much interest there was for it.Keep in mind Im unemployed..cash is pretty tight especially this month but I knew I had to jump on it..and I did.Ten mins of the ad being posted..they were sold and 3 other people responded right after me ready to buy.

I got lucky buying a brand new ls6 intake on there for $200 last yr from a guy who bought a crate motor and bought a fast intake to put on it right away before even firing it.Another late night random purchase.

Any of you guys score good parts etc doing the samething? I coudlnt justify spending 500+ on use 243 heads when new cnc castings wouldnt be far off in price.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

How do you figure new cnc castings wouldnt be far off in cost ?

New core heads from Ai are listed at 775$
And it says 243/799 , so they are probably LS2 243's not LS6


Cant always expect to get a steal of a deal, and call what is a reasonable price for items, wayy too much.

But on the subject, that happens, so I usually pass the deal on to friends if I can, thats how my buddy has a $1400 LS6 in his car.

And on another note, what do you think a set of LS6 heads is worth, with a couple bent valves ?

1983Chimaera

The days I go to the junkyard with $10 to my name are the days I invariably find;

- complete TPI setups

- non-torn 85-up Z28/IROC-Z noses and ground effects

- seats in good shape

- IROC-Z tail lights

- disc brake positraction rear ends

- complete wheel sets

...and in general anything and everything else I tend to keep an eye out for but NEVER come across when I actually have money to spend.

86White_T/A305

well i couldve spent 550 on 243 ls6 heads that were less miles with no rockers,plus shipping and duties which is easily another 200

or like you mentioned buying new heads from a vendor for a lil more and would pay less on shipping from a vendor than a private seller.

im not calling this as being wayy to much but some guys on ther do try to pass some pretty junk stuff on there with a high price tag.there was a set of 243's on there that was badly hand ported and looked very..very bad.the seller was asking $450 and couldnt figure out why it wouldnt sell.

i also pass on good things i know other friends might be interested in..it usually rewards me with good offerings later on in life from the very same people.

as for 243s with bent valves..i see no reason why you cant ask atleast $400..its going to matter which valves and springs are on it.as long as it looks clean..chambers are in good shape,with rockers and mileage. you can post an ad with detailed pics of the heads and the bent valves..but not list a price..see what offers you get?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I think you missed what I was saying on that price, the Ai's list them *** 799/243's with components, however they are likely just the regular LS2 / 799 valves in them, the price of actual LS6 assembled heads is generally a bit more, due to the valves, and probably why youre thinking the sets arent a good deal, used heads with $$$$ valves compared to new regular castings with much much cheaper valvetrain isnt a fair comparison.

Yeah i'm not sure I want to sell the 243's yet, just figured i'd ask for an opinion on them, they are from an LS6 though, so the few replacement valves arent too cheap, I may just let them sit

86White_T/A305

Yes the ai heads are with oem type components,but to me since ill be switching my springs out for my pac springs that are on my 317 heads..wont matter if its assembled or not.not saying the ai new castings arent a good price for what they are..its just not needed for my application to justify the cost at the moment.

If i were you with ls6 243 heads..id replace what bent valves you need,maybe a slight mill the surface .010 and easily have $500+ set of heads sitting for another project or sell on ebay to highest bid lol.Any reason why you didnt use them..aside from the valves? What heads are on your current motor

86White_T/A305

i hear ya,i got my second transam now because the previous owner was not allowed to keep when he gets married.The fiance dropped the price from 2300 down to 1200 cash and I ran over there and bought it lol.

but there are times when you find a part you gotta have..and knowing your paying alot more just to have it right then and there.it happens now and then too.

1nasty86

iTrader: (5)

if you do get a set of 243 heads id have them ported before you put them on.. i know money is tight but do the swap once and the better way or imo. you will be doing it later anyway....

86White_T/A305

Yup ill be porting and milling them and getting new pushrods.Probably mill .030,use a stock mls gasket and my compression will be around 10.5:1 and have good ptv.That should wake up my lq4 quite a bit compared to now.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

If you have 317's on your LQ4 now, milling and porting them would yield as good of results as porting 243's. For less money. You could probably get more compression milling 243's, but probably not enough to justify the extra $'s.

I've pretty much given up trying to buy stuff on tech. Rarely get there in time. My son has gotten a few things in the past couple of years, but neither of us think the time is worth it now.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Got them after I got the engine, its an LQ9 so right now the 317's on it I cant complain about.

The friend who got the $1400 LS6 got it as a longblock, we still needed to round up the rest, and I found another one some fool must have stuffed into 1st at the top of 4th, destroyed a lot of stuff, at any rate he got the intake with sensors, coils, and some other stuff he needed, I got the heads and pcv stuff

86White_T/A305

I dont want to mill my 317's for now.Id rather put them aside if i ever do decide to go boost....milling them wont be an advantage.Swapping to 243's with porting and milling..plus my current mods for N/A is worth the extra $..which isnt much at all.Right now with the current setup..the lq4 with such low compression and the cam is very sluggish and throttle response is slow for my liking.

The 317 chambers of 72 iirc..mixed with my cam just isnt the ideal situation.Bringing my comp up to 10.5 or more would really wake it up for now with some longtube headers for the next season.I should be very close..if not crack the 400rwhp mark n/a.From there would be a boost build where Ill use my 317 heads.

cam-

I know where theres a pair of 243's locally. I can make an offer to the guy if you like? What kind of dollars are they worth to you?

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

I just want to throw out there for future readers that that not all LS6 motors with 243 heads had the good lightened valves in them. Only the 02-04 Z06 LS6 motors had the sodium filled valves. Many people try to sell any 243 head as the sought after Z06 head and the only way to tell the difference is by weighing an intake and exhaust valve. I purchased mine on LS1 tech from a good seller, but still checked the weight on the valves to make sure they really were the good 243s.

cam-

True, not many came with the sodium filled valves, but in my experience its not nec anyways. I run MUCH heavier valves than the stock steel 243's in my L92 heads and with single beehives I spin them to 7500 RPM pretty often. Note these are L92 valves which are not sodium filled, LS3;s come with sodium filled valves also.

Spring selection, is much more important than worrying about the stock valves imo.

spurgeon76

That's about the only time.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Your information is incorrect, ALL LS6 engines got the hollow and sodium valves.

LS2 243's did not, all LS6's did.

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

No my information is not incorrect. 02-04 Z06s with 243s were the ones with the sodium exhaust valves and hollow intake valves. Now I have read that some 05 GTO's got them but do not quote me on this as I did not research those. Some reading material:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...questions.html

Read post 3 from a moderator on ls1tech:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...-vs-799-a.html

Read post 6:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...243-heads.html

Read post 5:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...hey-worth.html

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

243s came on 4.8/5.3s also besides ls2/ls6/ls4.
I visit the clasdifieds on tech daily. Usually have stuff fs on there. Got a ad on there now.
A fair price for assembled stock 243/799 is 350-400$ used
TSP also sell stock new assembled gm castings.
Best bang for the buck is getting a stg1 243 prc/tsp heads.
Buying, used cores, having them ported by questionable head porters and then finding correct and properly set up hardware costs more and still have used heads.
The 243s are worth buying new cnc ported if looking to make power.
A used set, just get upgraded springs, a clean up mill and throw em on there

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yes, your information IS in fact INCORRECT.

As I've already stated, LS6's got the sodium/hollow valve combination, ALL of them, you stated that not all LS6's got them none of your post links provided any information saying that there were any LS6's without the sodium/hollow valves.

Your original post states that ONLY corvette LS6's got those valves, as i've already stated, that is incorrect, ALL LS6 engines got them, which means that includes the LS6 CTS-V engines, and crate LS6's.

You seem to be unable to read, again, as I posted in the last post, that you quoted:

ALL LS6's DID get the sodium filled exhaust, hollow intake, valves"

ALL OTHER 243 heads, did not.

Would you like to attempt to contradict where i've corrected your mistake again ?

rickyzZ28

iTrader: (4)

So you are telling the 2001 Corvette Z06 with the LS6 had sodium filled valves and hollow intake valves? That is incorrect. Can you read, because I am not sure you can either. I will give you I was wrong about the crate LS6 motors, but READ THE POSTS THE 01 LS6 DID NOT HAVE THEM. So lets just agree we are both wrong as the 01 didn't have it (where you are wrong) but others did (where I am wrong). The LS6 made its first apperence in its current (not the old 70's motor) form in the 01 Z06 and it did not have the sodium valves.

Here is an article that says the 01 Z06 came with the LS6 before you argue that point too.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-z06-road-test

Lot's of info about the Z06/LS6 in this long read.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...tions-faq.html
From the 2001 part:
LS6 Engine
"Providing the grunt for all this performance is a new version of the venerable small-block engine that delivers almost 12 percent more horsepower than the 2000 LS1. Called the LS6, it shares many components with the LS1 found in every other 2001 Corvette, and would look the same as the LS1 were it not for its red engine covers.

The LS6 produces 385 hp at 6000 rpm, and torque of 385 ft.-lb. at 4800 rpm. The engine is redlined at 6500 rpm (versus the LS1's 6000 rpm redline), and its torque curve is slightly biased toward the upper end where that power will be most appreciated on the track. LS6 power output is achieved as the result of dozens of refinements to increase volumetric efficiency and maximum rpm."

From the 2002 part:
"More Power
Last year's introduction of the Z06 Corvette, based on the former hardtop model and the legendary 1960s Z06 option package, is aimed at true performance enthusiasts at the upper end of the high-performance market. And now, an extra boost of 20 hp, to 405, makes Z06 the quickest production Corvette ever.

This upgrade to the LS6 engine's output is the result of new hollow stem valves, a higher-lift camshaft, a low restriction mass air flow (MAF) sensor and a new low restriction air cleaner design. Eliminating the PUP converter from the exhaust system enables better flow of spent gasses and reduces vehicle weight, without compromising Corvette's NLEV (National Low Emission Vehicle) status."

Also this is not a life or death situation and I am not trying to be a d*ck about it. I learned something new and hopefully you did too, it happens everyday so thanks.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yes the 01's didnt get them, that is well known information.


What I was pointing out was strictly that the LS6 CTS-V's got them, I was correcting the fact that you stated only Z06's got them, cts-v's and crate LS6's recieved them. It was clear after your post about the 01's.

You'll notice this in my post where I specifically said that I was referring to the CTSV and Crate engines, and was not referring to early LS6's

86White_T/A305

Thanks for the offer cam,but I already paid out for the heads and should be here weds.But I may know someone else interested in them if you want to pm me with with kind of money he is looking for them?

As for the ongoing argument about the 243 heads with or without the hollow valves I ask this question.Does it really matter because how much of a difference did the valves/springs make vs the other 243 heads?Are we talking a few hp maybe..I would think the cam had more to do with it than the valves/springs added for higher lift and durability at higher rpm.But if you are doing a cam swap..those yellow or blue springs would be coming out in favor for either a stronger beehive or a dual spring.And its just my opinion,Im not a fan of having a valve..sounds like a sacrifice to put in a weaker part for the sake of valvetrain weight.

Im not all obsessed like alot of guys on tech about the 243 heads being a true ls6 head.Seems to make for a good selling point.

Prc heads look nice,Ive read some guys on tech complain about switching to their 5.3 heads and made less power? But they do have some damn good prices and are a very popular head lately.

cam-

No worries hes one of those guys with stock piles of parts and not advertising any of it for sale, I was just trying to help you out so im glad you have some. Id guess 500 pair complete or somewhere around there would own them. Anyways...

The sodium vs non sodium valves wont make a single bit of difference on power levels. The lighter valves are too prevent valve float at high RPM is all. But keep in mind for a stock engine with springs designed to last 400k miles this is an issue. With aftermarket springs that will control much heavier valves its not such a big deal but you have to change your springs more often is all.

86White_T/A305

Who would you recommend for a good shop to have my heads milled and do some slight port work in the area?

I was thinking of going to Champion but my dyno experience still has a slight sour taste in my mouth :S

cam-

I dont know Champion. I build my own stuff.

Eagle Engines in Concord are solid guys who do nice work. Are you milling for increased CR or because your worried about sealing? If the head surface is smooth I wouldnt bother milling at all id just bang em on with MLS gaskets and new bolts. I like the copper spray too btw

86White_T/A305

Milling for cr,the 9.4:1 with the 317s right now gives me a lazy bottom end and down on power.I dont want to mill the 317's if I decide to to a boost setup later.Im thinking of milling the 243's .030..some port/polish work with new pushrods and put in my pac 1218 springs to bring cr I think would roughly be 10.8:1 depending on gasket.With doing longtube header 1 3/4 headers so net me 50-60whp.

cam-

That makes sense. Might as well clay them with the cam you want to run and mill em down to .100 clearance. The extra CR will make it a LOT snappier. I had my last LS1 like that ( i even winked a coupla pistons when i took the heads off ) but it worked MINT! Loved that engine i often wish I kept it.

I had a set milled at Competition Automotive in RH once too, they came out good but their rep is.... not so good so tread lightly if thats where you go.

86White_T/A305

So far I wont be changing cams,the 228r right now is working good for me.Just plan on changing the heads and making this thing breathe with new headers vs stock manifolds.I squeezed alot out of this combo for pretty much cam and intake only.

cam-

Yeah thats a good cam, the bump in CR will help down low and make it wailllllll er bark i mean

86White_T/A305

I love it..pulls right to 6700rpm right now.After doing heads and headers.. my main focus during the new yr will be on suspension..and saving for a rearend before I put this stock rear to an early grave.Im not used to drag racing a stick car yet at the track so my times are slow but I want to dip into 12's at Cayuga..high 11's if Im lucky.

cam-

What headers? 11's will be fun to chase. You'll need a lot of things working well to get there. 12's should be a breeze though

86White_T/A305

Ill be getting hawks 1 3/4 longtubes with 3 inch collector end of jan.make a new 3 inch y pipe with single cutout and 3 inch high flow cat.

With everything else in my sig,Im putting in bilstein hd's all around and changing to gta wheels.Hopefully pickup 3.42 gears aswell and then retune.I am worried that I might need to rethink my clutch..the ls7 is great on the street but didnt enjoy the track last time I had it out there on the launch.

cam-

Might need more gear for 11's

I loved my LS7 clutch it took a BEATING over the years I had it. What happened at the track?

86White_T/A305

Once it got hot it became harder to slip the clutch off the line ..it would bog and had the pedal stick to the floor once..made for a nice 23 second pass as i limped the 1/4 before it popped back up.But this was after a few hot laps as so many guys wanted to run the car wondering why a 305 was running so hard on the topend lol.

If I come across gears cheap..3.42 or 3.73 then Ill put them on just for fun.But the 3.23 in it now makes great highway pulls. and gas mileage haha.

cam-

Yeah dont slip it or you'll glaze it. Just dump the sucker and hold on lol.

86White_T/A305

Lol I did that before launching at 2200 and it would sometimes bog..or slight spin and then Id come into the power band.I blame the tune and low compression for this more than anything though.But the car sure does mph..3rd gear really pulls..when I can shift into hard without grinding.

Doing a 13.5 @112mph with a horrible 2.2 60ft

86White_T/A305

*update*

I got my 243 heads milled .030 and they turned out to be very mint heads after degreasing. Machinist said they must be very low miles.

I cant wait to start swapping my parts to this car and see how much gain I get from just head swap.I decided to hold off on going bigger exhaust untill I can afford to redo it all front to back all at once.So for now Ill add a e-cutout.

All I need now are new pushrods and head gaskets.

cam-

Its going to be a LOT snappier now. You'll hear it the first time you start it lol

Id clay test it with the old head bolt and run the 5 later MLS gaskets which can be reused. Then check for pushrod length and shoot for 0.050-0.10 of lifter preload and order the pushrods. It will run a LOT quieter with 0.100 pre load but its a bit riskier.... 0.050 is more if you want to buzz the hell out of it all the time. Old boys used to call it zero lash. Some guys say 0.080

Anyways glad your on the road to more powa! Enjoy

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I made a major score on LS7 crower shaft rockers on LS1 tech, also got a smoking deal on a couple of other things there. I am always lurking the for sale section there.... and it + ebay is a big part of the reason my CC bill is sky high each month (and why I have half a container full of crap coming my way again)

86White_T/A305

Thanks,my engine builder think the 7.375 rod will probably be the length i need with the stock lifters.Im ordering mls gaskets.Once the motor is out he wants to see if maybe I should replace the lifters maybe the trays aswell or mod the trays.He has 7.350 rods also so it will be a matter of my lifters and then measuring which rods are going in.

The good thing with this is I get to see how much power my head swap gives me first,then when I do full exhaust and re-dyno Ill see how much gain I get ontop.If I did both at once..my expectations might be slightly high lol

cam-

Shouldnt need lifters, your running the same cam as before and there were no problems right so? But if you do change them soak them in oil overnight first before install or SQUEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKY ( sounds terrible ) until they fill with oil

86White_T/A305

Cam- The car runs great..not a glitch at all.I still start it up in my garage every other week and 40 mins.Nothing else is changing except the heads,and reuse everything else.Motor had 50,000km when I got it last march.I put at most maybe 2500 since then and during the cam swap and doing the springs and pushrods..everything was in great shape and within spec.Only other mods I plan to do as I save up for a full header/exhaust setup is remove my dual cats and use a single 3 inch highflow cat and e cutout.They were toast after my ls1 puked oil down the pipes,this should free up some power. Give it some new amsoil,make a 4inch cold air kit and maybe new injectors and have it retuned for the new heads.

Twin Turbo- nice finds..you never know what you might find lurking around.best part is..one mans junk is another mans gold.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

It's brand new and I got a very good deal because apparently the guy was in a bind