Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lol 4500 for brand new ls3 is a steal!

Lonnie P

That, combined with everything else, soon turned into a small fortune.

What was originally supposed to be a paint job, became a total ground-up rebuild.

boricua24

Yeah, I have the paint job done and interior done next it will be the total suspension upgrade so i was looking on a close estimate on how much is going to cost me since that is the set up i im commit it to.i have already spend closed to $9, 000 on it so.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Wow, that's pretty crazy! I can't even imagine doing something like that.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Lonnie
You said you mounted as far back and down as possible. I always thought rule of thumb: buy mounts and headers as a pair. Like you mentioned, might have to tinker with trans mount to adjust.
Here's pics of collector positions - used Spohn's mounts.

Not sure if these will help. Also, Dean posted info on pinion angle in UMI torque arm thread. Still want you to consider adj TA, and you lowered slightly, too. If your pinion angle is down, that would add to space problems.
Used three grounding straps - trans, head to firewall, block to k-member.

Brian

Paid 4200 for 34k LS2 takeout - you lucky dog!

kcducttaper

Awesome thread! I'm wanting to drop in an LS3 in a camaro eventually, so I'm definitely subing.

Lonnie P

I researched many mounts before I bought a set. My goal was to be as low & rearward as possible. I bought mounts as a set, but there was still interference with the oil pan & front k-member. This was mainly because I did not want to beat the lip flat (or notch) for oil pan clearance... I wanted it to look nice.

After modifying the mounts for k-member clearance, I went rearward as far as possible, until the headers got close to the body. I'm probably 1/2" additional rearward. This helped with clearance between the Hawks headers & dr side lower control arm mount (which was OK but very close)... but tightened things up at the pass side collector area.

I slotted the trans mount holes & also the hole in the trans crossmember.
All seems to fit well now.

Brian,
I will measure the pinion angle this weekend. Car is now low enough that the driveshaft is going uphill to the rearend. I may also have to raise the rear of the trans slightly to get everything where I want it. I sweat the details as I do not like vibrations & rattles.

Nothing like trying to jam the biggest parts possible under a car that is purposely lowered.

mr305

iTrader: (1)

what brand is that torque arm and mount?

Heritage Z

iTrader: (4)

Interested in what you end up doing with your wiring. Were you still going to go with the ls1 set up for electronics side of it?
I am putting a gen 4 in my car as well but am unsure as to what I will do with the wiring.

Subscribed.....

Lonnie P

I went with LS1 wiring as I do not like fly by wire throttle.

Once I added the cost of the throttle body & 58 tooth converter, it actually cost more than the fly by wire setup would have. Looking back I probably should have stayed with the LS3 electronics.

Lonnie P

Here are a few pictures from this weekend's progress.

Got the fuel system done finally.

Demonic13

iTrader: (-1)

Yeah man keep me posted looking to have this done in my 1991 camaro Z28 I believe it will be the same since we are both F bodies. Let me know what all needed to be done when complete if you needed to customer fabricate anything Thank you.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Try that with an auto in the driveway!

Yeah, I kept the DBW. Biggest prob was no info on pedal mounts/fitment - fit, tweak, fit, and tweak some more. I would not want to deal with reluctor. Here's some hints for DIY on that: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-lsx/634777-dbw-pedal-bracket-placement.html
LS2 is great for options - is 4.00" bore (will swap to L92 heads & intake in future), could be used with LS1 computer (24 tooth), and TCU is separate unit. And it's what I could find, locally! Cost for 12 xtra cubes was ridiculous - unless you know someone . I've heard uber rich guys like the LS2 blocks for re-sleeving, too. In the end, it's what you can find.

Torque Arm is BMR trak pak - includes crossmember for attach point. The crossmember is closer to the back of the SFC than the front - that's why I suggested the DOM tube to aid in front. Probably not needed, but it makes me feel... Here's a pic - you can just see the triangle gusset under the door. It is slightly visible so for those who hate that...
Lonnie, I told you I liked that green . Used neoprene under the wing. It will be all red again by year's end.

Lonnie P

I came very close to having an auto in the car.

Had a line on a LS1 w/ forged bottom end & CNC ported heads.
Started looking for 4L60E trans cores & then found the LS3.

Then I was trying to find a good way to match the 4L60E to the LS3 & did not like the options available. When my friend decided to sell his T-56, I had to jump on it, since I missed driving a 6 speed.

The exhaust is rather tight with the auto for sure.

TEDSGrad, Why the repaint? I thought it looked good already...

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Typical GM, clearcoat looks good from the side; plus, 23 yrs and 215k it needed it. I got respectable mileage out of the factory paint. Never touched it up, either. Many door dings, scratches, got rear-ended - can't tell all that from pics. After all the $$ from LS swap, suspension, brakes, interior - outside is last and I'll be happy. It stops the very minimal rust, too. Cost/quality got out of hand for a driver, but I'll be happy long after the money's spent.
I'm more performance orientated than looks/show - but a good paint job really will set it off. I'm amazed at your detail - wow! Even the diff cover and calipers - nice touch!
I don't have your talent or skill or experience. But I sure do appreciate this board and guys like you who share - I would never be able to do all this or even try without this resource. My head is in theology and philosophy all day, so this hobby helps the other side of my brain - something tactile and visceral, some dirt under my nails, build with my hands, etc.
I try to give back/post whenever I can. We have similar builds.

Did you relocate the knock sensors to the valley? Always wonder what folks do when using LS1 ECM's. I read somewhere that stock reluctor wheels are prone to failure (2pc, stamped & riveted - potential separation) - did you use an aftermarket one when you went back to 24-tooth (billet, one piece)?

Lonnie P

I had the same problem with my factory paint. The clear was starting to come off & getting milky. Other than a few minor door dings, the body was straight.

lol... you noticed the painted rear cover. I thought "I may be retarded, who is going to see this" when I was putting base/clear coat on the rearend cover.

As for working with your hands... there is a huge amount of satisfaction to working on it yourself. Even when I am aggravated with the car, I still know it is worthwhile. I have a high stress engineering job, that tests my patience nearly every day. When I start working on the car, I forget everything else. No matter how tired, sore or sometimes bloody I get from the car, it still relaxes me.

As for skills, you look like you are doing fine. I just take 1 part at a time & work on it until satisfied.
Some thinner, sand paper, & spraypaint, & you can make anything nice. It is more time intensive than money intensive. Looking back at spending 3 hrs painting sway bars & end links, & I understand why the car is not done yet. I guess I should contact GM Hightech before I get it dirty.

I still have to locate the knock sensors on the side of the engine... must redrill & tap the factory block holes for the early sensors.

I retained the 58 tooth reluctor, but went with the lingenfelter 58 to 24 tooth converter box.

Heritage Z

iTrader: (4)

Good to know. The only thing that was making me want to try and keep the current electronics was that if I am correct in my assumption is that I may be able to use my cruise control with the DBW pedal and throttle body.
It'll be nice since I drive 50 miles one way for work.

You have done an excellent job so far and I am very anxious to see the final product since I am doing the same build with mine.

Lonnie P

Can't help you with cruise control.. unfortunately mine does not have it.

Seems odd as my car has A/C, power windows/locks, & T-tops but no cruise.

Lonnie P

Haven't updated in a while...
Things are moving along, although rather slowly.

Working on the interior...
Gutted it & added some Fatmat to the floor & inner panels.




Updated my gauges to a 140mph speedometer & an 8k tach to keep up with the increased performance potential over the factory 305.



Put in a new carpet, headliner, & installed the interior panels today.
Starting to look like a car again.

Installed a 2010 Camaro starter & heat shield. Good price for a new GM starter.

Cranked the engine over & verified oil pressure.
Set the fuel pressure to 58psi.

Planning on starting it this week... just waiting on a few coolant hoses to finish things up.

Just built the power steering hoses & got everything to fit.
Bought a Russell 16mm to -6 adapter & it did not have enough clearance to connect the hose... the nut was against the pulley. The Vette pump has the pulley very close to the outlet.

Had to get a special -6 pump adapter to get my braided line to fit.
It worked out pretty well.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Looks good Lonnie! And now your car only has 45k miles on it!

Lonnie P

The car only has 45K on it. I changed the new speedo to match the actual mileage.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Well duh! I knew that, I was just testing you. LOL

Lonnie P

With this build,the car got zero miles in the past year. It was at the body shop from December to May & then in my garage from May until now. With luck I will get to drive it in April, once the snow leaves for good.

Today I'll try to install the T-top weatherstrip before the Christmas crowd shows up.

Lonnie P

Actually got to start to today. Was nice to finally hear it run.

I had to do a lot of tweaking in the tune to get to to idle, but it seems to be working pretty well. Has nice lope, idling at 900rpm.

The cam swap, plus the 4" MAF took some tweaking to get the fuel trims inline.

The final wiring related items are the tach & speedometer.
I'll get those working tomorrow.

Everything else is working.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

congrats on your first fire! best part of the whole swap ,besides the test drive

Lonnie P

It gave me the extra incentive to work on it. I was getting burned out, so hearing it run just renewed my energy.

I can now tidy the wires up under the dash & move on with putting the rest of the body together.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Lonnie;
What do you think of the exhaust sound - too loud? too quiet? tone? What you expected? what you're surprised about......

Lonnie P

Not really sure yet. I got the reverse flow muffler as I wanted it quiet.

I only ran it for 5 seconds before I shut it off & connected it to an exhaust hose outside.
It is in the garage so I did not want to poison myself, or let all the heat out... it was 28deg outside.
The rest of the time it was through a 25ft hose so I could not really hear it clearly.

If it is too quiet, I can open up the baffle so it is straight through like yours.

I like a good sounding car, but I grew out of the loud stage. I would rather be going fast & unnoticed than the other way around.

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

Looking good! I need you to redo mine, too many little things that bother me, but it was my first major project like this. You always do it different the next time, right? I will suggest finishing the car before you start to drive it, I have been driving the car for a couple summers now, and the interior isn't finished yet, I enjoy driving it too much to bother

I also have the Watts link in the rear, though my driving skills aren't high enough to be able to tell too much of a difference without going back to back. Though I'm sure it's way better than it would have be with the panhard setup.

Lonnie P

Mine will be finished before it leaves the garage... I have a few months of snow before the tires touch the ground.

Interior wiring will be finished today.

Getting the stereo parts now, so this is the next hurdle.

It will be a few weeks before my seat covers show up... Then the interior can be finshed.

As for the Watts link, it made a big difference in my car. I'm glad I bought it.
With the lighter engine, I will surely be readjusting everything to get it balanced again.

FASTERTHANUMARK

iTrader: (37)

Updates?

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

subscribed

Lonnie P

I got busy with customer work, so my car is waiting its turn.

I got the carpet installed, recovered the seats & put them back in the car.

The Stereo is next as soon as I get time.

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

BTW, meant to ask, does it matter what year truck you get the 5 wire maf from?

Lonnie P

I used the LS3 card style MAF in a custom air intake w/ custom tune.

Not sure about the Truck MAF.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Did you get the speedo/tach wired, yet. How did you do it? - Pics? I need to get mine done next week. Finishing the weatherstripping, now.
Don't know if you scrapped the big honking oil level sensor. Here's a plug to give better clearance for the tranny lines going by: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS-Low-Oil-Level-Sensor-Plug,35277.html
Brian

Lonnie P

I connected the PCM tach wire to the c100 connector inside the car. White wire, port D6. Added a pull-up resistor (500 ohm) between this wire & switched 12v.

Got the speedometer wire connection at the yellow converter box under the dash. Saw a post from Pocket, but I did not save the termination info. Colors vary per year. I'll see if I can find the info for you.

Speedo works fine, but the tach seems to be off slightly that I cannot seem to tune out.

I did not hook-up the oil level sensor.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That car have the electronic/digital tach gauge? My 89 is going to be running off the 411 ecm and i hope tach works lol its not digital, but worked with my mallory ignition well

I got a mechanical speedo but still need to send signal to ecm i am sure. I need to look at that info by pocket as well, i have that converter box under dash

Lonnie P

Finally made some more progress.

Engine compartment is mostly finished, but still a few things (like rad hold down, misc wiring etc.)

Lonnie P

Got it outside for a few pictures.
Getting anxious to go for a ride.

I still have a few items to work out, such as air filter, charge AC, do some tuning, & bleed the clutch better.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

WOW, even the 6.2 decal! --- so where's the color matching coil covers?
Looking great.
Give me 60 days and I'll have OEM replacement stainless t-bolts for the v-band clamps. Had help from a higher power and found the OEM (multiple resellers), and then the part number which was the key. Currently, they're out of stock and require a min order - production run in two weeks. I'll post a thread in the vendor review section - Hawks was not helpful, but I won. Those collector bands can always use some spare t-bolts rather than Hawks' - $75 a clamp answer. I'll PM you when I have them in hand.
Brian

Lonnie P

Thanks,
I have a set of Holley coil covers to install. I'm not sure what color to make them. Thought about green with the silver bird decal on them.

Going to have to extensively modify them to fit the car. They hit everything... alternator bracket, heater box, probably take a day to make them fit.

If you can get stainless t-bolts, I'm interested in a few spares.

Got scared when I saw how low the right collector was. It is like 2.5" off the ground.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, those front collectors. OEM stainless t-bolts and nuts - Hawks said it couldn't be done - it took effort and some luck. OEM supplier wouldn't sell the replacement parts without the original part number proving that the replacements were going on their parts. With all the multiple resellers, that was the difficult part. Once I sell off some of the min order - I'll post everything (part #'s, OEM supplier, cost, etc.) for future reference.

Formula is a good name, even marine applications. Never liked the screaming chicken large, but smaller is ok.

I love the exhaust note. Not too loud at all, till I get into it - surprised considering how big it is. Perfect for around town, local, and HPDE. For cross country touring, I might get a softer note for hours of steady low rpm driving.

Lonnie P

Brian,
Could you by chance, give me the location of the rear bumper Formula decal?

My car originally had the '90 & earlier decal on it. The decal kit I bought had the newer style that better matches the door decals. Unfortunately it is longer than the old one & I'm not sure where it goes. I took tracings of every decal before I painted the car, but this one is different. Just looking for the distance over from the license plate opening.

Now I have to decide if I want to put the body moldings back on...

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I would go from the "a" in formula and go backward from the passenger side. Get the "a" full to the right - before any curvature - and lay the decal going back towards the license plate area. I don't think it is an exact science. Tape on the back of the un-used decal and walk all around the car to make sure.
I thought about doing these, but opted for the "plain" red. I even thought about changing to "Formula 364" on the doors, but decided against advertising. "Formula" on the bumper is something I am considering along with painted birds on pillars and nose - but since day one I always wanted my car clean and a taller wing. Choices...choices...

Have you decided what to do with HVAC? I won't decide till next May or so. Could even get rid of the "sliders" if I have to rework some things, but I will have AC one way or another next year. Clean paint, wing, and seats are only visual changes so far. I want to keep the dash as close to stock looking as possible, but HVAC could pose some ease of use issues with the new ECM and old equipment. It's acceptable to me to redo the radio/hvac area between the dash and console if necessary and for better function.
Browsing...looking...planning...

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Once the doors are in final position, put the two points on each side - straddling the line. Stretch some easy to remove tape from one side to the other, then lay the long piece along the tape so you have a straight line. Hit it with a heat gun. I really think the moldings break up the canvas nice. No question at all, aesthetically. Plus add the utility, and they're a no brainer .

That lower body shine is amazing - pics don't due justice.

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

Nice formula, very clean! Though I left the side moldings off of mine, liked how it cleaned up the lines on the sides of the car. But I can see if you want the visual clean up too.

Lonnie P

I like smooth lines, hence my hesitation to put the molding back on.
The first door ding will make me regret leaving them off though.

As for the Formula decal on the bumper, my original was about 1.5" shorter (more condensed lettering). I put on a tape guide & set the decal in place & realized they were different. Now I'm sitting w/ a piece of blue tape on my bumper, waiting to get it lined up correctly.

I just realized, your car is the earlier style with the shorter decal, like I removed, as is the photo you attached. Not sure what made me think you had a '91..

The AC on mine has a few mods. I am installing a relay to take the load off of the AC switch. The AC switch will send the command to the PCM & the PCM will enable the relay. I did this so the PCM has control over the compressor at full throttle & high RPM. You can tune it to cut out for protection. Using the high side pressure, you can better control the cooling fans with the AC. This prevents them from engaging at cold temps when you run the defroster, based on the line pressure instead of just a hard wired AC command.

LastGTA

iTrader: (1)

Love the car, love the build. I have a very similar build that I'm starting up very soon. My car is a 92 T/A but the same color combo and after seeing yours I realize how much I love the green.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Too busy working on customer cars?....time for an update.

Is the AC completed to satisfaction?

Don't know much about your shop. Could you briefly plug yourself and let those of us who don't know, know? Your attention to detail must bode well for your shop, too.