427seven

sorry to hear Qtrip, I been there..... remember, couches and STRONG beer

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Thanks for the nice words, guys.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Dang, sorry to hear, hope it gets better asap !!!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not being very mobile is really boring. Had to do something....

Went out to the garage and nestled myself down onto the creeper and used it to get around while the wife handed me tools. Got the fuel tank put back up and also swapped out the gage pod in the dash. Just need to finish terminations for wiring and fuel lines. Still can't walk or drive, but my buddy can while I ride shotgun.

So it turns out the new Racetronix 340 pump module has a different style electrical connector with higher current ratings. The 4th gen F-body uses Metripack 150 connector, and the new 340 module uses a type of Delphi GT 280 connector with higher current rating. I could have hunted down the right connector and reworked my existing harness but the entire Racetronix hot wire kit (FPWH-017) was only $69, so I went that route instead.

Connector bulkhead on the Racetronix 340 fuel pump module.




The Racetronix sub-harness is designed to be plug-and-play into a 4th gen F-body vehicle harness. Connector for fuel pump relay and fuel level sender is on top of the fuel tank, but my connector is at the firewall behind rear seat. It's silly to run all that wire to the tank and back, so I just got rid of the extra.

First I de-pinned the fuel level sender wires (purple), cut off the terminals, and extended the wires to the connector on the firewall of the car. Then I completely stripped back the relay wires (gray and black) and tossed the connector. Those relay wires will get cut to length after I decide where to mount the relay. Now the only wires that go over the top of tank are what go to the pump bulkhead.






I wanted to improve the pump ground wiring so I asked my buddy to weld a ground boss to the rear firewall. Boss is Caterpillar p/n 175-1540 (stainless, M10 thread, 1" tall). Picture is horrible but you get the idea. He did a good job welding. All the ugly is my fault by using flat black paint, paint runs, and melted undercoating.... and generally not giving a darn because it's out of sight.




The next thing I did was swap in a different gage pod to hopefully fix some quirks that I've been living with. I needed to go back to a stock 0-90 Ohm fuel gage (my old one had been modified). I also swapped in a V8 oil pressure gage (versus V6) that should read more accurately with the LS1 oil pressure sender. And I took the opportunity to change from 120 mph to 140 mph speedo.

140 mph speedo installed with odometer adjusted to be same as my original. Not as nice as I was told though. My original pod is way cleaner and in much better condition.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

My car was previously set up with a stock in-tank 4th gen F-body fuel regulator, but now the new fuel module requires an external pressure regulator. I'm trying to salvage as much of my old fuel system as I can so I decided to try out a C5 Corvette filter/regulator in place of the old 4th gen setup.

Below is the parts list I'm using to plumb the C5 filter. I really really really wanted to eliminate all 90° AN fittings but just couldn't manage to package it any other way. Although, I'm still using way fewer parts with better flow than the old 4th gen setup!




I had trouble with quick-fit adapters being too large diameter and clashing with each other when installed on the C5 filter. Found some slimmer adapters offered by Summit Racing. They feel a little cheap but do have screw-on keepers.... and they fit with a little clearance to spare.




Lastly, I was looking for clips to tie down two -6 hoses together in a bundle. Couldn't find anything (thought that was odd?). Ended up using 7/8" diameter p-clips and forming it into an oval around the hoses. It's the perfect size.




A little record keeping for myself.

skinny z

Is that right? A 3/8" supply line for all that horsepower?!

scooter

iTrader: (11)

As long as you have enough pump(s) the tubing really isn't a restriction

skinny z

But it can be. This is why many of the top performing vehicles use a -8 AN or 1/2" feed line.
Perhaps Qwik's power level doesn't require it but you can bet that higher output engines certainly do.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Again, if you have enough pump(s) the tubing really isn't a restriction. 3/8" is good for over 1000 horse WITH ENOUGH PUMP

It certainly was a problem for a suction based system since the only thing moving the fuel was air pressure, but a pressurized system is really limited to the amount of pressure you can apply

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...line-size.html

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yeah, 3/8" tube is fine because it has 60 psi behind it. The limiting factor is actually the fuel filter. Bench testing by Lingenfelter shows the filter media becomes the restriction above 270 L/hr. The 4th gen F-body filter acts the same. I saw about 1 psi drop at full throttle with the 4th gen filter, but it was consistent so I could tune around it (plus I have wide-band closed-loop operation at full throttle). Expecting the same again.

I also saw another 2 psi drop (all the time) due to the pressure regulator being located inside the fuel tank. Fuel rail pressure was 60 psi with key on (true regulated pressure with no flow at engine), and then dropped to 58 psi with engine running. It's not a flow problem, it's a problem with where the regulator is referencing pressure (way back at the end of the return line inside the tank). I'll have to double check all that with the new setup and set the base fuel pressure in the tune. I'm expecting rail pressure to be a tad higher.

It's not ideal, but it's pretty consistent and I can work with it being a naturally aspirated engine.

But you know I'm still not 100% confident with this setup until I see what it does. Anything beyond this will be a full tear up of the entire fuel system and lots of moolah ($$$$), so let's hope I don't have to go there.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Glad you got out and made yourself feel useful Qwk. I'm planning to run a fresh power wire to my fuel pump soon and want to copy your setup (albeit with a 4thgen style pump). Couple questions for you:

• Did you manage to route the 10 awg wire through your S-shaped drain tube along with the necessary fuel gauge wire(s)? From my reading, it seemed like you were using 12 awg wire before and I couldn't tell if anything else had been passed through. I'd like to pass everything through the sheetmetal with a setup similar to yours.
• Where did you source the S-shaped drain tube?

Thanks!
~Jon

zacharyhorn

iTrader: (1)

whats the cost? I’m pretty sure that is my problem.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

TDS has various levels of headlight repair kit, along with individual pieces. Prices really range depending on what you need. Check it out.

obeymybird

iTrader: (4)

We will pretty much have the same fuel system now and im getting about 58psi at the rail constantly verified with a gopro mounted under the hood but you have yours wired to holley so your good. Not sure which brand filter you went with but if you do have high/low pressure issues swap to the wix/napa unit.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

It was scavenged from a piece of machinery. I doubt you can find the same thing. Yes, all the wires go through, including 10 AWG fuel pump.

I really should spend time hunting down a better long-term solution. Problem is there is so little room (height) to work with on the interior side. I never found a 90° bulkhead that was slim enough to fit while handling 10 AWG wire.

Maybe a solution is to stand the bulkhead off the firewall with a thick plate.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Empty reads empty. It's the little things that make us happy.

Aviator857

Its funny the little things can kick energy back into a project.

skinny z

Happier still if it read full!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Did a start up and have a massive leak pouring fuel out of the outlet connection of the C5 filter. Also regulating to 70 psi. Leak stops if I press in on fitting. I didn't like the C5 filter outlet connection when I first saw it, and now it's making my REALLY nervous! Upgrading to a WIX filter but may have to come up with a different idea to make sure the outlet is completely strain relieved (which is damn near impossible).

vorteciroc

Every single one of those Summit 221335B adapters that I have purchased have leaked...
The other sizes have worked fine; but the 3/8 size do not seal at all.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Appreciate the heads up on that.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Got a new WIX filter and no leaks, but this new setup sucks compared to what I had before. Fuel pressure is all over the place and drops to 50 psi at full throttle.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You'll probably have to bite the bullet and run a true regulator after the rails with a return line. I've read too many stories about the C5 style filters/regulators not handeling high performance pumps. After talking with aeromotive they were adamant about this style setup.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Sounds like the kind of job that can wait until winter. I'll drive it a bit and see if it mellows out.

Honestly, I'm kind of growing tired of fiddling with old cars. The thought of selling keeps coming into my mind a lot these days.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

What’s worse than a broken gas gauge? A broken gas gauge and a malfunctioning odometer. Can’t wait to get my gauge fixed

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

This car.... let me tell ya.... Now the steering oscillates in corners. Something is loose or worn.
Like I said, getting tired of old cars.

My wife said the oddest thing. I said I was thinking of selling and she told me I should keep it.
I never expected that to come from her mouth. Apparently she thinks I would be bored without something to fix all the time.

vorteciroc

LMAO!

You married the right woman!

CKone

iTrader: (2)

Funny stuff. Went out ransams house last night and he was working on installing a 9” rear in his car and we fought it and fought it. Finally called it a night. You know what they say if it’s got **** or tires it’s gonna give you problems lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The knock retard was still there after the fuel pump swap, but appears that it was just the result of over sensitive settings in the tune. And possibly sensors getting more sensitive as they age. Lots of mechanical noises in my car could confuse it for sure.

I got more particular about what response frequency I used in the tune. Changed it from 6 kHz to 5.6 kHz, which is said to be more appropriate for a 4.125" bore. And I lowered the sensitivity setting from 90% to 50%. No more knock retard and car moves like stink.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

In other unimportant, and probably boring news, I've gotten more accustomed to the Recaro seats and learned to like them after a couple drives. I especially like the thigh support and seating position lower to the floor. Gives more room under the steering wheel for my leg to work the clutch.

I put the passenger seat in and I've got to say, it looks a lot better than I thought it would! The seats are really crowded by the roll bar though, with plenty of room toward the console. I wonder if the seat tracks are adjustable sideways?

Needs a seatbelt guide pretty bad. Going to see if the Jade leather guide fits my seats. Update: See Post #1540, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ml#post6397239

CKone

iTrader: (2)

I don’t think they look bad at all. The colors match the door panels really well actually! Comfort if probably the ultimate factor here. I’ve found driving my Formula that even being a big/tall guy, I can’t have the seat far back. Need to have it closer and tilted back some. Way more comfortable that way

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I really like the look of those seats, any idea on the weight difference of them and the stock seats?

92BLKL98

I agree completely, I would like to see if I can adapt my power seat base to aftermarket seats.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No numbers, but the Recaro's feel somewhat lighter than the 4th gen T/A seats. I think these are the same seats as used in Honda Type R vehicles in the early 2000's, so might be able to find a weight at one of those car forums.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

Being a racing seat I can just about guarantee they were engineered to be lighter then the originals. Not a bad deal. I love the clean look of your center console also with no window or mirror switches. Was the car originally equipped like that? Have wanted manual window doors and mirrors for my Trans Am for a while now. Not wanted to go through the hassle yet lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yes, it is a base model with crank windows. The only upgrade to the interior are seats and tinted windows. Body is still straight up base model.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

yea, the seats do look good for your particular interior setup. As you discussed though, it is super important for how they feel too. Cool.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

Awesome! Nice light platform to begin with!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yeah, you'd think it was light but it was 3500 lbs (no driver) fully equipped with the iron block LS! And that was with tubular k-member and a-arms. There's a lot of friggin' weight in all that safety gear I'm carrying, besides the heavier drivetrain behind the engine.

Last weigh-in was 3340 lbs with the aluminum engine and AC removed. The car is around 200 lbs lighter on the front than a normal 3rd gen. Most the added weight is packed in the middle. Kind of like me....

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Got some seat belt guides for the Recaro's. So much better!

These are the Jade (Japan) belt guides sold through Evasive Motorsports. My seats were not listed in the fitment guide but it looked promising enough to give a try. Sure enough it fits pretty well. I wanted black color but that was a good 3 months out, so I got the black with silver stitching that was available now. It looks fine, not too bad.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

I feel your pain there, probably why I try to remove what I can 😂

I like that cage kit, if that the one from Hawks?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

No, the cage was made from scratch. No kit.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

Nice! I actually have a little experience running a tube bender and doing that type of stuff, just always for dirt cars lol. May have to give something like that a shot one of these days.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Yep, you've got the skills. Pretty nice that you would be able to do it exactly the way you want.

My hoop is set back further than normal (on purpose). I can pass tech inspection by rolling the seat all the way back, but didn't want the hoop that close to my head on the street. They did a good job following my wishes, but I forgot to tell them what I wanted for the rear bars. Would have preferred to tie into the rear suspension points, but the bars were already welded in when I saw it the first time. I just drive around for fun so not a big deal. But it would have been more inconspicuous and maybe functioned a little better too.

Painting the bars same color as plastics definitely helps reduce the eyesore. It would be an improvement to triangulate, but that would make it a lot more difficult to get into the back seat area to assemble and work on stuff when needed. Just got to make that kind of decision for yourself. Mine is just a fun street car so I kept it more simple. I can always add on later if I want.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

What do you mean by this? How does the hoop placement make a difference?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The bar has to be within a few inches of your head. The real intention is that you are strapped into a rigid seat and wearing a helmet. Take away the helmet and plop the driver in a OEM seat with a three-point lap belt and you got a freakin' death trap.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you totally. My next question was gonna be to ask what paint you used on the bars because it does match and really tie in well with the rest. I really don’t know that I would race the car more than a BOP day at local track or test and tune night, but more so want one for rigidity along with the beefy subframe connectors. And of course safety as well. I’d still like to be able for all seats to have the option to function though it may be rare. If that makes any sense lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You're going to lose use of the rear seats. The cross-bar will do serious damage to somebody if they snap forward in the seat, most likely eat it with their face. I only kept the rear seat and shoulder belt for looks. I actually removed the floor belt latch so people get the hint and remove temptation.

Same shop that did the bars did the sealer and paint. And they clearanced the interior plastics too. They have the formula on file if you want the same color. It's about 2 hours from you in Peoria.

I did all the interior removal and assembly myself (nobody cares about your stuff more than you). I handed them the rear plastics so they could clearance it for the hoop. They made some really nice cuts in the plastics. I did all the carpet cuts.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I did something similar for my bars, used the interior color paint code and did it with a flattener added to the paint so it blends in better. I'll probably cut mine out and redo a few things someday.

CKone

iTrader: (2)

That looks amazing and definitely some top notch trim work! I don’t know that I could be that precise! 😂

Tony where did you get paint from? I was looking for something to match my beechwood in the 91. Short of some specialty places that had some that looked close, I found a Krylon color at Walmart called Chestnut that looked really close. It’s too glossy though and couldn’t find it in any flat or semi. And side note I just joined a group on FB and saw some pics of the JY on there, cool group lots of eye candy!