Pocket

iTrader: (24)

You've got open/closed backwards, but yes, the resistance checks are right. Open means the circuit has a break in it, closed the circuit is a complete loop

Easier way is to pull the relay, jumper 30 to 87 and see if you've got 12v at the connector under the car near the tank. While you're under there do a resistance test from the ground wire in the same connector to the chassis. That'll rule out a ground being off

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

You're right, I've got the terminology backwards. I'm thinking closed=does not work. When it should be closed=works.

How does one go about checking that the pump is good without pulling the tank?

One thing I got to thinking about....The pump itself came with a connector with one red wire and one black wire. Logically one should be positive and one negative (ground). The wires in the original harness (inside the tank) had one black and one gray wire. Again, logically the black should be ground and the gray positive, so that's how I soldered them, unless I assumed wrong and they are switched around?


You can see the connector I'm talking about in the corner of the picture. I hadn't soldered the pump to the connector at this point in the picture

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

You should be ok on wire colors... Pretty sure mine was gray for power black for ground. Even the 4th gen's tank wiring uses these colors.

If you put 12v and ground to the harness coming off the tank, that should make the pump work. If it doesnt turn on...something is wrong between the plug and the pump. OR the pump is no good. Like I said...you wouldnt be the first.

If you jump the pump and she works...then work your way back. At that point, Ide be looking at the plug between the tank and the body. I remember the body connector for my tank was pretty horrible looking when I did my swap. I ditched it since I went with the 4th gen tank and wiring harness.

J.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Cool, thanks. I'll report back with my results.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Saved for later post

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

So here's what I found. Ground from the connector on the body side at the tank is good. The gauge works which is coming from the purple wire in the connector. The only wire that is screwing things up is the gray wire. No power.

I tested the pump with a 12V source and the pump comes on. The fuel pump relay works as I can hear it click on and off for about 2 seconds as I turn the ignition. When I crank it comes back on and clicks backs off when the car doesn't start.

SO, this Pin D.....this is my issue. I am not able to find this thing on any schematics to trace it. Where does it go after it leaves C207? Is it a straight shot to the connector at the tank? I don't understand why there is no power, especially since I never touched anything after C207.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. On the bright side, I'm learning this damn car inside and out

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

After the C207 it goes through the dash bundle, along the drivers rocker panel, behind the drivers rear seat and to the rear bulkhead, then tank. No connections in between. You can trace it or do the simple method of cut it at the C207 and run a fresh wire external of the harness. Be 100% sure the C207 is getting 12v before you do this

White'89

iTrader: (8)

I to have seen my car naked, and I don't plan on doing it again.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

It's powered up. The MIL light comes on because I haven't added the ECT wires in to the ECM plug yet. Was waiting on the new sensor and wasn't sure what plug it took so I haven't gotten that done yet. For whatever reason I am not getting 12V past C207. Frustrating to say the least.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Thats odd. Well I'd say make sure your attached to the correct wire, stick some dielectric grease in it and pray.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Yeah tried that too. Although I haven't tried the other side of the C207. I tried A-F (except C since it's MIL for sure) or whatever it is on one side of the connector.

The most confusing part about this is that I have tried looking this up in both Mitchell repair and Alldata and neither show the connectors so there is no easy way to trace the wires. On Pin D there is a black/red wire that continues on to the connector at the back by the tank, but nowhere in those diagrams does it show a black/red wire.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

According to the pinout in this tread by Pocket:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...formation.html

Your fuel control should be either pin K, M, or N

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I broke down and went over to the neighbors house and got my laptop with alldata back

Yeah, not sure what all that stuff is, I'd run a fresh wire from the known good C207 D to the rear bulkhead. According to the diagram, after the 12v goes through the C207 a few times it reaches the C208 (?) before passing through the rear bulkhead and the sender inline connector C313

The description for C208 is LH shroud ahead of center access hole. So, in other words its an inline connector somewhere between the rear bulkhead and the dash. Helpful as ever GM

Pin L may be your answer

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Guess what?

bradley23150

iTrader: (10)

The battery was dead?

Lol, what was the problem?

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

SHE'S ALIVE!!!

I'll get a better vid up later. Moved Pin D around until the pump came alive at Pin L. Now I just have to figure out why the tach isn't working.

Click the picture for video

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Woo hoo! Congrats man! I'm glad you got it figured out. On to more fun things

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. Finally have the monkey off my back.

texascat2

Sounds BAD A$$$!!!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Nice!!! That pesky wiring will get ya every time! Amazing what one wrong pin can do huh? Congrats!

Hearing her fire up and had to be satisfying...I know it kicked me into another gear when I first got mine running!

J.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

It's an amazing feeling. Once I heard that fuel pump come alive I knew I was home free

Can someone confirm that the Tach is supposed to be on D6?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Big congrats man!

Tach is C100 D6 for all 3rd gens 82-92, it never changes. Birds commonly require the tach booster wire because the LS1 PCM output isnt very strong

http://www.lt1swap.com/lsx_tach.htm

I pull off B19 PCM fuse wire with a 680ohm resistor to the tach wire

Once again, congrats! Big hurdle is behind you

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Awww...you should have put the camera higher. We couldn't see that big grin on your face . Well done!

Spike-Z

iTrader: (4)

Awesome man. well done! best feeling in the world.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Big congrats man!!! I know you have to be ecstatic right now!

I can hardly wait to drive mine again, this weather is really starting to get nice again

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys. I can't tell you what a relief it is to know that everything IS wired correctly . There is a reason the camera was set so low, I didn't want to scare anyone with my ugly mug

Pocket, thanks for the link and all the help you have provided throughout this build.

Just have to get things buttoned up, a few things left like y-pipe, sub frame connectors and a bit of clean up and I should be able to "reveal" my secret to my kid

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I still don't understand how you have kept this a secret from your son?!

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

You can see the tarp in the video blocking his view. I'm also restoring a '69 chevelle and that's what he thinks I'm working on. But who knows, when I was 18 and someone told me to stay out of somewhere I had to find out why. For all I know he's peeked, so if he knows he is doing a great job hiding it. Guess I'll find out by his reaction in a couple of weeks when it's all buttoned up

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I have to admit... with most swaps all I really want to see is the payoff. I want to see it start, drive, exhibit some power...then Im usually happy.

Im still interested in seeing that...but I REALLy want to see how the reveal goes down! I hope you set up a camera or something and post his reaction! I bet you have all sorts of scenarios for showing him the car in your head!

J.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

lol, yeah I plan on putting the car back together in the next couple of weeks. The weather is getting real nice so once the car is in one piece I will have an excuse to clean the garage. Of course I'll be so "busy" that I will need him to come move his car out of the garage. I'll definitely have the camera set up to catch his reaction......but it will be up to him if he minds that it gets posted. I don't think he will care if I do, but it will be his call.

MikeDwhoROCZImports

iTrader: (1)

Great thread. Subscribed!

techrunner

so pocket, does the tach accept inputs on either the c100 or the c207 next to the old ecm? i am pretty sure i wired mine up at the c207 and it is working. i had my pcm under the dash, so i just attached it there. just another way to do it i think.

great thread by the way, thanks for taking the time to document everything.

spudz

awesome swap! awesome car! and a great thing you are doing for your son!

thunder85

iTrader: (1)

seriously, you are freaking awesome man. that zip file just saved me so much work and answered so many questions.. just awesome. thank you!!

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Glad to be able to help. It's stuff I collected along the way and it would be silly not to share it.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

There is no tach pin on the C207, only the C100 D6. For some years the cluster ground is C207 pin M, but not all. Thats the only tach related wire over there

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Decided to tackle the sub frame connectors today. Yet another beat to fit, shim as required, paint to match type day. These connectors (SWracecars) are supposed to be bolt in but aren't. A few minor modifications were required. No big deal but would have been nice if they just bolted in. Evidently all T-top cars have the same issue but this bird had to go the extra step and be "that one" that tech support had never run into. Outside of the minor massaging, these are very nice connectors. I'm happy with them.

The bolt holes don't quite line up. Had to enlarge one and cut open the other.



Same on the drivers side



Passenger side runs into the floor. Out came the BFH tool.

<a href="http://s568.photobucket.com/user/mille_3/media/87%20Bird/HPIM2258.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss124/mille_3/87%20Bird/th_HPIM2258.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo HPIM2258.jpg" style=""></a>

Floor pad not quite getting to where it needs to be due to the floor pan interference. After a few well placed smacks with the hammer it fit.



Side shot. They hang a bit low but nothing major.



Hawks cross member. Same issue with bolt holes. Nothing lines up and I had to rework it to make it fit. This was the worst bolt.



Just exhaust left and I should be able to do a shake down run in the next couple of weeks

daddy33

iTrader: (5)

I can't wait till you get this car on the road and test out the tires

Demon355

iTrader: (1)

Should have popped for some UMI SFC's. Those sit way too low for my liking. Great build though!

mwfrels

What was interfering or hitting that required the side to side adjustment of the hole? This is the first mention of this I've read about. Was it auto trans related? The Hawk's piece is what I plan on using.

Mike

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure what the interference is. It is an auto tranny. I spoke with Scott at Swracecars yesterday and he mentioned something interesting about T-top cars. He said that GM swears that the location of the cross member bolt holes are in the exact same location as hard top cars. But from their experience and measurements they have taken for their connector that they build, the bolt holes are slightly off on a t-top.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Sounds like a load of BS to cover a faulty jig

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Yeah probably, who knows. I do know that the one I got was way off but I made it work. Got the tach and temp working today. Not ideal to add in the temp sender after the harness is taped up, but fortunately the old harness is right there so it wasn;t a long run. Just exhaust left now.

For those of you guys who have reused your old auto shifter cable. Does that bolt pop out of the plastic holder at the end of the cable? The gear selector on the transmission has a little ball type deal that should snap into the cable. whereas the old transmission bolted to the cable. Mine is a bit dirty and it's hard to tell. I don't want to break it.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

If they knew that then they should have a set for hardtop cars and a set for T-top cars. I would have sent them back.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

I used the lever off of my 700R4 and did nothing but bolt all the stock shifter stuff on.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

Hmm. Looks like the one the transmission I got has the stud riveted to the gear selector. Suppose I can cut and drill.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Use the cable linkage and shifter from the 700R4. Pop the shift arm off the 700R4 trans and install it on the 4L60E. Note how the bracket mounts to the old 700R4. When attached to the 4L60E, it will be one bolt hole forward. It is advised to point the little **** on the shifter arm towards the trans so the cable is closer to the pan than frame rail for more exhaust clearance. You're going to need it

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I used the Hawks 4L60E crossmember. No alignment problems.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

I meant the shift arm like pocket mentioned. Not sure what your speaking of here.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

This is some random image I found on the net. I was too lazy to go ut in the garage and take pictures. I'm talking about the end of the cable where it attaches to the gear selector arm on the transmission itself. The 700R4 cable has a bolt and nut at the end of the cable, whereas the gear selector arm on the 4L60E uses a stud like the one in the bottom of this picture where it seems cobbled together. I already have the cable bracket mounted and all that, just wondering if you guys took the gear selector arm off of the 700R4 as well.