I should not be left unsupervised
#101
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Jon, I'm using the LT1 PCM but am switching to an aftermarket LTCC ignition setup.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ite...050LTCC+eq++Tp+
It's plug and play and, as you know, much better and more reliable than the optispark. I found 8 LS1 coils for $100.00 on another forum
Now, all I need is the module and harness from the above link.
By the time I can afford my engine upgrades, I'll be able to afford the LTCC harness, module, etc.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ite...050LTCC+eq++Tp+
It's plug and play and, as you know, much better and more reliable than the optispark. I found 8 LS1 coils for $100.00 on another forum
Now, all I need is the module and harness from the above link.
By the time I can afford my engine upgrades, I'll be able to afford the LTCC harness, module, etc.
Magnuson put a M90 kit on 4.8/5.3 trucks for a while. Those netted 330-350rwhp totally stock. Hopefully this breaks 300
Im shopping around for a tuner. Ive got my eye on one so far, waiting for a response
Ive read several opinions from running gasoline through the case. Most say it'll destroy it. I know for the newer Eaton's, gasoline will eat the teflon off the rotors. The tbird unit is an older non coated unit
Tim, thought you were going LT1? Or are you doing the LSx PCM control on the LT1?
Im shopping around for a tuner. Ive got my eye on one so far, waiting for a response
Ive read several opinions from running gasoline through the case. Most say it'll destroy it. I know for the newer Eaton's, gasoline will eat the teflon off the rotors. The tbird unit is an older non coated unit
Tim, thought you were going LT1? Or are you doing the LSx PCM control on the LT1?
Last edited by New2Chevy; 07-11-2010 at 10:32 PM.
#102
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
According to this http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...d.php?t=419154 LM7's with some bolt ons normally make like 250rwhp. So a 350rwhp M90 LM7 makes perfect sense.
Do you have a cam in your's?
#103
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Stock cam. Id love to replace it, but a decent custom cam kit is close to a grand. My whole swap was just over 2. I cant justify that just yet. If a used cam pops up on tech in the future, I may jump on it, but for now Ill stick to the lame truck cam
The fuel rails set me back $130 from a guy on tech. They came with about 2x that in fittings/lines. They're for a LS2 so I had to remake the adapter blocks attaching it to the intake. Ive got 4 pretty billet chunks in my toolbox that are useless to me
Tim, sounds good. I was wondering if you were doing the 24x LT1 conversion from EFI connection. That's a whole new can of worms
The fuel rails set me back $130 from a guy on tech. They came with about 2x that in fittings/lines. They're for a LS2 so I had to remake the adapter blocks attaching it to the intake. Ive got 4 pretty billet chunks in my toolbox that are useless to me
Tim, sounds good. I was wondering if you were doing the 24x LT1 conversion from EFI connection. That's a whole new can of worms
#104
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Which truck cam? The LM7 cam was 191/190 duration at 50, 457/466 lift, on a 114 sep. The LQ9 was 196/207, 467/479, on a 116. If you're running the LM7 cam, I have a spare LQ9 cam in excellent condition you could try.
#105
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
When ever I think of LM7 swaps I think of the turbo 5.3L Fairmont. They built the car, raced and dynoed it. Then they picked up a used LS6 cam from ebay for $86 and picked up 100rwhp. That personally makes me feel like cams in "LSanything" is as necessary as fuel in the tank. I bet if you could make one of those yourself you would!
A quick search of ebay shows a 99 SS Camaro cam for $40 +$10 shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ls1-s...-/110555835602
I just looked up this article on GMHTP modifying their 99 SS and they list the Stock LS1 cam as:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...installed.html
Even if you go for other options, it shows there is a starting place even for penny pinching.
A quick search of ebay shows a 99 SS Camaro cam for $40 +$10 shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ls1-s...-/110555835602
I just looked up this article on GMHTP modifying their 99 SS and they list the Stock LS1 cam as:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...installed.html
stock 1999 LS1 cam, which only delivers 202/210 @ 0.050 and 0.496/0.496 lift on a 116 LSA. Cams used in 2001-2002 LS1 F-cars are even smaller!
#106
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
I appreciate the offer, Attila but Ill wait for a bigger cam. LS6 cam is the main one Ive had an eye out for but they sell really fast. I nearly snagged a few "mild" GEN III aftermarket cams that had really good blower specs, but sadly got beat out again
If I had a cam grinder you bet Id make quite a few. Heck, my dream garage would need a state budget to fill
A friend of mine actually gave me his old 99 LS1 cam when he upgraded, but it left in the package deal for the 98 LS1 long block
If I had a cam grinder you bet Id make quite a few. Heck, my dream garage would need a state budget to fill
A friend of mine actually gave me his old 99 LS1 cam when he upgraded, but it left in the package deal for the 98 LS1 long block
#107
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
Engine: Cammed 6.0L LSX
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: custom Ford 8.8", 4.10 gears
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Jon, I'm sending you a PM with something I found that may spark your interest.
#109
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Car: 91 rs
Engine: Blow through 383, 10 psi, xr288hr
Transmission: Manual th350 ATI 3000
Axle/Gears: 3.50 9"
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
I just wish there was a way to use an M90 with TBI so my truck could get one....
#111
Supreme Member
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
I appreciate the offer, Attila but Ill wait for a bigger cam. LS6 cam is the main one Ive had an eye out for but they sell really fast. I nearly snagged a few "mild" GEN III aftermarket cams that had really good blower specs, but sadly got beat out again
If I had a cam grinder you bet Id make quite a few. Heck, my dream garage would need a state budget to fill
A friend of mine actually gave me his old 99 LS1 cam when he upgraded, but it left in the package deal for the 98 LS1 long block
If I had a cam grinder you bet Id make quite a few. Heck, my dream garage would need a state budget to fill
A friend of mine actually gave me his old 99 LS1 cam when he upgraded, but it left in the package deal for the 98 LS1 long block
you couldn't build my dream garage on any budget!
Last edited by ericjon262; 07-13-2010 at 01:39 AM.
#113
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Car: seeking '90.5-'92 'bird hardtop
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
'02-up LS6 cam in an LM7 is a huge mistake. Doing so will cost you 21 ft-lbs down at 2500 rpm, (naturally aspirated), and torque continues to suffer through 3800 rpm.
With turbocharging, the LS6 cam's lack of overlap is good, but with an Eaton, you can benefit from less non-overlap.
Not to push my spare junk, but to illustrate: The LQ9 cam adds 17 degrees of exhaust duration, which would reduce your pumping losses. It adds 5 degrees of intake duration, so the thing is still exhaust biased, which is still beneficial to reduced pumping, trying to force all the extra exhaust gasses out.
And despite the 2-degree wider lobe separation angle, the LQ9 cam has 30.5 degrees of non-overlap, versus the LM7 cam's 37.5 degrees.
With turbocharging, the LS6 cam's lack of overlap is good, but with an Eaton, you can benefit from less non-overlap.
Not to push my spare junk, but to illustrate: The LQ9 cam adds 17 degrees of exhaust duration, which would reduce your pumping losses. It adds 5 degrees of intake duration, so the thing is still exhaust biased, which is still beneficial to reduced pumping, trying to force all the extra exhaust gasses out.
And despite the 2-degree wider lobe separation angle, the LQ9 cam has 30.5 degrees of non-overlap, versus the LM7 cam's 37.5 degrees.
#116
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
With everything hooked up, I drove it down the driveway up onto the trailer. Im not risking any sort of hot footing until the tune is in. Should be a dyno pull to see how she rolls too
Friday is going to be exciting
Friday is going to be exciting
#117
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Car: 86 TA, 91 B4C
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Great, i cannot wait to see how much you put down on such a budget man.
#118
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Yea really, you spent a fraction of what myself and others have in their swaps, and yours is one of the cleanest there is.
#119
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Did I tell you I took second at G14 for Birds? Most of the people who strolled by thought the engine was stock to the car. Even had an old timer 3rd gen guy roll by saying "Those non-AC cars were pretty uncommon. Nice to see one still going"
#120
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
That is awesome!!! That makes me regret our faulty fuel pump even more. I so wish I could have been there.
#123
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
I can't wait to hear numbers! did you paint the blower, or is the lighting just different? looks good if you did.
#125
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Car: 1985 Camaro, 1986 Trans Am
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Update?!?! Sorry, I'm impatient!
#127
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Move to Texas and the "other side of the state" has a whole new meaning,LOL.
#134
Supreme Member
#135
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Glad to see ya got it t o the tuner's alright. I am very curious what the power will be with only m90 though, and how that might translate to your dual set up. By the way I wonder if the lt1 has some of the same holes in the head like a sbc to use the same plates that you used to mount the super. Also did you pin the balancer to the crank and what balancer did you use. Also I likethat you used a bov instead of the one on the super to reduce heat, I was thinking the same thing when I was kinda looking at parts to use. I am still curious if you came up with a way on your other project though to move the brake booster, or what ideas you have for that? I bet that thing is torquey as hell though, have fun.
#136
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Its still at the tuners, Im hoping for a good bit of torque because thats the fun part
Crank is stock, unpinned. I doubt itll show that much resistance, at redline these blowers only require 40hp to turn at 10psi
The LT1 has the same cyl head holes as the SBC. No, it doesnt have the handy ones above the exhaust flange to support the rear brace. For the twin car I put a sleeve on a stud from an exhaust bolt
Twin car has manual brakes currently. I modified the firewall (big mistake) to mount the master right onto the brake pedal assembly and moved the rod stud up the pedal 1.25" for a better mechanical advantage so the pedal would be usable. The endeavor is a failure as I can barely stop the car from a crawl. A new system, likely designed around a manual setup will be in the works before the car moves under its own power again
Crank is stock, unpinned. I doubt itll show that much resistance, at redline these blowers only require 40hp to turn at 10psi
The LT1 has the same cyl head holes as the SBC. No, it doesnt have the handy ones above the exhaust flange to support the rear brace. For the twin car I put a sleeve on a stud from an exhaust bolt
Twin car has manual brakes currently. I modified the firewall (big mistake) to mount the master right onto the brake pedal assembly and moved the rod stud up the pedal 1.25" for a better mechanical advantage so the pedal would be usable. The endeavor is a failure as I can barely stop the car from a crawl. A new system, likely designed around a manual setup will be in the works before the car moves under its own power again
#137
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
You're going to want to put a smaller pulley on that, that one will only build a couple of lbs boost if that. The nice thing about the old school uncoated rotors is that they tolerate all sorts of abuse (overspinning...) better than the newer coated ones.
With some porting and other tweaking you can move pretty close to 500hp worth of air with one of those, though very few people have taken them even close to that far.
What "rebuild kit" are you guys talking about? What's in it? I've always just used the ford lube (which I don't remember smelling as bad as you guys say, I've got half a bottle sitting on my bench that I might go out and smell later) and replace the bearings in the end of the case piecemeal as needed, they run something like $4-6 at a local bearing supplier.
The biggest disadvantage with using the blowoff like you did vs a bypass like the OEM's do is part throttle mpg... the OEM setups only close the bypass at higher throttle positions, so most normal cruising the rotors are turning but not really doing anything (tested to take only a fraction of a HP, basically almost no cost in MPG), where using a blowoff will only open when the throttle suddenly closes when the engine is making boost, so it will cost you mpg on cruise. You might also find that the boost spike on throttle close will be more severe than with a turbo (a turbo can surge as air is forced to flow backwards through it, the eatons are a pump that will not flow backwards, it will move whatever air it's moving at the RPM that it's turning at, whether there is someplace for it to go or not, or somethign will break) and that you won't be able to keep the hoses on at the drag strip (but it won't be a problem abusing it on the street).
With a carb hat both sides of the FPR will see boost so it will be boost referenced.
With some porting and other tweaking you can move pretty close to 500hp worth of air with one of those, though very few people have taken them even close to that far.
What "rebuild kit" are you guys talking about? What's in it? I've always just used the ford lube (which I don't remember smelling as bad as you guys say, I've got half a bottle sitting on my bench that I might go out and smell later) and replace the bearings in the end of the case piecemeal as needed, they run something like $4-6 at a local bearing supplier.
The biggest disadvantage with using the blowoff like you did vs a bypass like the OEM's do is part throttle mpg... the OEM setups only close the bypass at higher throttle positions, so most normal cruising the rotors are turning but not really doing anything (tested to take only a fraction of a HP, basically almost no cost in MPG), where using a blowoff will only open when the throttle suddenly closes when the engine is making boost, so it will cost you mpg on cruise. You might also find that the boost spike on throttle close will be more severe than with a turbo (a turbo can surge as air is forced to flow backwards through it, the eatons are a pump that will not flow backwards, it will move whatever air it's moving at the RPM that it's turning at, whether there is someplace for it to go or not, or somethign will break) and that you won't be able to keep the hoses on at the drag strip (but it won't be a problem abusing it on the street).
With a carb hat both sides of the FPR will see boost so it will be boost referenced.
#138
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
I used the GM oil. Most of the ford guys recommended it over the cheaper ford stuff so I went with it. The kit consisted of the drive coupler, snout bearings, snout seal and oil. Pretty much everything except the rear bearings
Not what Id like to hear about the BOV setup. I tested it on an idling engine with the BOV in my hand and it opened and stayed open all through the idle span. I had to goose the throttle pretty hard to get it to close. I didnt test it under load or boost, so it may be completely different than I predicted
Not what Id like to hear about the BOV setup. I tested it on an idling engine with the BOV in my hand and it opened and stayed open all through the idle span. I had to goose the throttle pretty hard to get it to close. I didnt test it under load or boost, so it may be completely different than I predicted
#142
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Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Not what Id like to hear about the BOV setup. I tested it on an idling engine with the BOV in my hand and it opened and stayed open all through the idle span. I had to goose the throttle pretty hard to get it to close. I didnt test it under load or boost, so it may be completely different than I predicted
#143
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Well, the car's coming home, but not in a good way. It turns out the BOV just cant vent enough air even at idle. Im going to have to use a larger unit, but for the cost Im going with the vortec SC bypass
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
#144
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Car: 1991 Z28 convertible built 3/1/1990
Engine: Cammed 6.0L LSX
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: custom Ford 8.8", 4.10 gears
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Yea right, you'll have all that done in one weekend. I'm such a procrastinator, I haven't even finished putting the steering column or my new pedals in the car yet.
#145
Supreme Member
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Well, the car's coming home, but not in a good way. It turns out the BOV just cant vent enough air even at idle. Im going to have to use a larger unit, but for the cost Im going with the vortec SC bypass
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
#146
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Pocket, I made this thread just for guys like you:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...nt-answer.html
you will see the car in the pics has a Procharger FMIC made to fit a car with AC, but I was measuring it for a traditional front mount.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...nt-answer.html
you will see the car in the pics has a Procharger FMIC made to fit a car with AC, but I was measuring it for a traditional front mount.
#147
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
Well, the car's coming home, but not in a good way. It turns out the BOV just cant vent enough air even at idle. Im going to have to use a larger unit, but for the cost Im going with the vortec SC bypass
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
MAF needs to move too, "Suction side" as the tuner called. Prob is I must run a recirculating bypass system for that (or SD)
He also said that IATs went to nearly 200* very quickly and would only go higher over time so.....
Time to mod the crap out of it before I take it back. To do list:
FMIC and 3" ducting
cam
headers
gears
Should keep me busy for a while
go to a vw dealer for the valve i think its fits the tdi .... when i did my kit years ago it was like 20 bux same valve and any partsguy worth a crap will know with out the part number. just show them a picture
#148
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
This is what I had in mind
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...81-post23.html
A single coolant fan may not be enough though
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...81-post23.html
A single coolant fan may not be enough though
#149
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Car: 1992 B4C 1LE
Engine: Proaction 412, Accel singleplane
Transmission: built 700R4 w/custom converter
Axle/Gears: stock w/later 4th gen torsen pos
Re: I should not be left unsupervised
If you switch to dual fans or not, either wire the fans to come on with the key, or use the ECM to do it as the engine barely begins to warm.
Procharger uses this method in their instructions. This ensures that later even at times when car speeds are low there is still some cooling airflow over the IC.
I believe it also helps to prevent warmed air from the radiator from wafting over the IC.
Procharger uses this method in their instructions. This ensures that later even at times when car speeds are low there is still some cooling airflow over the IC.
I believe it also helps to prevent warmed air from the radiator from wafting over the IC.