Atilla the Fun

Guys, I feel the pain we all complain about, but I'm in a position to do something about it. I have the third gen car. I have the LS engine. I have a gutted 4L60E to bolt behind the LS. I have a garage, lots of lighting, jackstands, et cetera. I have welding skills. I know where to get flanges, collectors, and mild steel tubing with mandrel bends. I just need a new saw.
The first set I finish, I will post pics, then cut them apart to build jigs. The first new set to come off the jigs will be installed, and I'll post pics. If you like the second set of pics, then I'm in business.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'm looking forward to it. Just please give us 3" collectors and ground clearance.

Atilla the Fun

I should have thought to specify that. I am indeed planning on 3" collectors and maximum possible ground clearance. And while I'm specifying, I plan on using the hawks mounts and brackets, my stock K-member, stock torque arm / bracket / crossmember, ( but using the ES poly Tq. arm mt. bushing ) stock '98-'02 Z28 oil pan and starter, and mine has a/c, p/s and power brakes.
Hawks says there's no profit at this price, but I'm only looking to turn out 2 sets per week, and materials should be around $300, so I should have $400/wk to cover labor. That's fine by me. Once I get ahead of demand, I can start on 1.625" versions, including a version that uses Hooker's SBC y-pipe into a 3" cat in the stock location.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

O2 bungs?

techrunner

sign me up! and i'm willing to take pics and stuff as a test install too, if you want me to.

robbe_iroc

This sounds like a good thing. I´ve just started my LS2/T-56 swap into my -89 Iroc. The manifold/headers issue has been hazzle on my mind, 899$ for the ones from Hawk´s is just a bit too much I think, even though they look like nice pieces.
O2 bungs please. . .

Atilla the Fun

I knew I was forgetting something. I was thinking it would be best if the bungs are positioned so that the ends of the 02 sensors are pointing up into the tunnel. If anyone disagrees, I'd like to know why. Because it seems silly to design anything unless every effort is made to make it an intelligent design. I don't want to be worried about speed bumps, or melting the shifter linkage.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Cannot wait to see what they look like man, good luck with it.

stoning_volcom

freakin awesom man! i am swaping a ls1 into my car so ill be buying them if they are what i am looking for will they fit a t56? thanks and good luck

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i can't even sell my set for $550 at the moment, so good luck

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

If only they would fit with a stock K-member. . .

Atilla the Fun

Isn't it safe to assume so? Looking at the shapes of the 4L60 and the T56, it seems you could actualy design more clearance from the ground if using a T56, but how to get one for design purposes? IDK about anywhere else, but in Utah, used T56s can't be had at any price. Those who have them go to any and all lengths to keep them in running cars. To me, a used, good condition, T56 is worth $500, and I'd pay up to $ 100 shipping on top of that. But on no forum or website have I ever once seen any T56 listed for even twice that price. When I'm sure my jigs are good enough that I no longer need the car available for test fitting, I'll be going to a Tremec TR3650. These are just as strong, lighter, far far cheaper, far easier to find, and so on. f*#@ a damn T56 and everyone who won't sell me one at a fair price.

Klortho

I've seen cores for a T56 go for 500 bucks

They should fit the same whether it's a 4L60E or T56 either way, I would also match them up to fit Hawk's swap crossmember as well which clears both transmissions very well.

As far as pointing the O2's down the tunnel, if you spread them out enough, you should be able to put them either facing at an angle toward the transmission, or possibly straight out at the end of the collector.

Atilla the Fun

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. If not, I do apologize. I was thinking the ends of the O2 sensors should both be pointing in the general direction of the dome light inside the car. Or do they need to be horizontal?
Klortho, I've seen plenty of broken T56s for that price, but I can get a functional 3650 with a 90 day, unlimited mileage warranty, for $500. And these things survive in 4000-pound supercharged mustangs running 10s on drag slicks. Plenty strong for me. Yeah, fifth is only 0.67:1, but with first being 3.38:1 and third being 1.32:1, I can just use a smaller-number axle ratio and finish the 1/4 mile in third gear at 115 mph.

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi

iTrader: (1)

Off topic but where can you get a tremec tr3650 for 500? and will it fit behind an ls1 without alot of work? I'm looking for a manual trans to put behind an lq4 in my 94 s10.
Thanks,
kory

Atilla the Fun

The 3650 was used in '01.5-up Mustang GTs. The '05-up version had a hydraulic clutch release system, but you need to fit that to the pre-'05 versions, because of the shifter situation. Even then, the shifter will be right under your elbow in an S-10. So this swap is for F-cars. The '05-up version would be great in Corvettes. Then you need a custom adapter plate, because the 3650 doesn't have a removable bellhousing, and the integral one it has only matches the Ford 4.6L. I do adapter plates, but I'm not yet selling one for this swap. There are a few other issues, but even so, it's still cheaper than a new bolt-in T56 or a new bolt-in TKO500. And after all that, you still need a conversion-type pilot bearing, and you must sort out which combination of starter, flywheel, and spacers to get everything where it'll live.
I've been gathering stuff, and I will do a thread on how-to, which I planned to do this spring, but since I got the idea to do these headers, this swap is now pushed back to winter. I think I can sell more headers than 3650 kits.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I bought my T56 for 1000$ with the hays flywheel, centerforce DF clutch and hydraulics. I thought it was a pretty good deal. just gotta be patient, seen some goof ones for 500$ here and there but with nothing but a bell housing.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

For ground clearance issues.....Why not build them as a flat-4 collector, instead of the 2 x 2 typical pattern? If they are going to be long tubes....

ShMaCk2004

wohoo!!!!!

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

why in the fall? thats a long ways away and a lot can change in that time period...

pony exp.305

Keep it up and post ..I will keep my eyes on it

what about 5.3L motor on 1991RS??

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Is there room to do that without having it hang below the subframe rail? Doing the 2x2 keeps the overall dimensions compact enough to be able to tuck them up high, between the trans and the subframe rail. If you go 4x1, I would imagine that they'd have to sit below that rail to fit. BRP is developing a set like this, and from what I saw of their pre-production mockup set, they didn't really seem to offer as much clearance as one might expect.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You mean like this? http://www.brphotrods.com/LSX%20Swap...0Longtube.html

Been "in development" since May '09, still not available. I vaguely recall hearing something about them deciding it wasn't going to work, but can't put my finger on it right now.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

excellent!
i hope it turns out well for you.
im glad u are taking the initiative to build around many trans and kmember options.
i built mine around spohn kmember and around th350/400. did not take into consideration other trans. they work well with tubular kmembers. also.
but yours should move very well with all the options.
Good Luck

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Pretty excited to see how these turn out.

Ive spoken to 3 CNC bending company's who have told me their willing to produce header tubes for me, i just need to come up with a first set & make a minimum order (niether of which am i in the position to do at this moment )

Will these be tig or mig welded?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

They posted a pile of prototype pics on LS1Tech a couple months back. Those in the pic on their site, if I recall correctly, are actually their Caprice headers. Their thirdgen prototypes were quite a bit rougher, but what really stuck with me was that they really didn't seem to offer much ground clearance compared to the Hawks.

I have a bad feeling that I'm going to have to shell out big bucks for a custom set of headers if somebody doesn't come up with something that tucks up where it belongs.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

^^^ thats why you point your headers forward....and run a downpipe lol

Atilla the Fun

You could do it quicker, doing it in your garage, working nights and weekends? After coming home tired from real work, not that desk "job" BS?
6 months to build headers, then build jigs, then make a set from the jigs, then test fit them on the car, that probably can be done just working nights and weekends.
Learn a few things about reality before criticizing me.

Atilla the Fun

A near stock 5.3L really wants 1.625" primaries. You're gonna need a serious heads and cam combo to benefit from 1.75". I do plan to do 1.625, but not until after the 1.875, because there's more demand for the 1.875. You will do pretty well just running exhaust manifolds. Choose a dual pattern cam with about 228-230 exhaust duration at 50, and with good enough heads you can expect 380 rwhp through a manual trans. Yes, the headers might put that same combo over 400 rwhp.

Atilla the Fun

I'd really like to learn tig, but I've already mastered mig. And for mild steel, tig isn't necessary.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Wasn't criticizing you at all, sorry if it sounded that way. i know what real work is, i shingle, pour concrete, and on top of that farm.
It sounded as if you were going to start the project in the fall.

Atilla the Fun

Sorry if I was too defensive. I wasn't saying you work a desk, I've lately been inundated by white collar people insisting that desk jobs are real work. Having tried it, I know better.
Anyway, It's not like I was refusing to sell you a set if you're interested, I wasn't that upset. I hope we can be cool now. Peace.

Transamthunder

iTrader: (1)

I am all for a set of those. I just have a 5.3 at the moment but i KNOW I wont keep a motor in permantly, I want to go much bigger. So all that swapping around is gonna require a more inexpensive type header for what I want.

Atilla the Fun

Yes, it is wise to buy what you're going to need. But be aware that running 1.875" primaries on a mild 5.3 will cost you 20-30 ft-lbs most of the way through the powerband, moreso at the lower rpm where our heavy cars need it the most. This calls for more rear gear and a looser converter. Buying bth of those new adds up to more than the price of headers, so you'd probably do best to use exhaust manifolds with the 5.3L. You won't lose that much peak hp, and they're better for low rpm tq than oversize headers.
The point may be moot anyway IF you get a serious LSx by fall when I expect to have some headers ready.
Still, if people want to buy these large tubes for mild 5.3s, that's fine with me just so long as they realize they'll lose torque.

candy burple rs

i got a bmr fabrications K-member...send some pics or I can give you my e-mail..to send pics..I have a RS 91 with a Lsx going in..tks

Atilla the Fun

Who were you trying to communicate with? And why in my thread? Send them a PM. I've stated already that I'm designing around the stock cross-member.

LBC_camaro91

iTrader: (1)

Sounds really good i hope i can get a set of these as well. I currently have a 91 camaro ls1 auto with stock exhaust manifolds and i also been wanting to buy some headers. Keep us posted on the progress. Take some pictures and post up.

-Mike

Atilla the Fun

I'm still in the stage of gathering all the materials. Anyone want pics of header flanges and 1.875" mandrel bends and collectors? I didn't think so.

Atilla the Fun

rumor has it that Hawks is about to offer these, albeit at a higher price, so I'm giving up, thanks to those damn thieves.

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

^^^ That sucks. IDK why they have to charge so much on EVERYTHING they sell. Hence the reason i buy from byunspeed and other places. I know they got to pay for the designing and intitial fabbing, but christ what they charge they're making a killing.

$750 L98

Hawk's is offering a group discount for a batch judging by their 2" header thread. Several members have said they don't fit well, and won't fit around the 4L60E though, or I would be in the group buy LOL

Atilla the Fun

If Hawks would stop, I'd get enough sales to recoup my investment. But some insist on stainless, which I don't plan to offer, and some won't wait for me if Hawks has theirs available sooner, and some want a known brand.
Noone NEEDS anything larger than 1.625", because that's best for street 6.0s to 5500 rpm, and it's best for ANY turbo LSx under 7 liters. If you're twisting a cam-and-heads 5.7 to 7000, then 1.75" is okay, but it's not truly street. It's registered strip. And if you want to go that route, then order a COMP 3715/3718-114 +3 and use with TEA 5.3 stage 1.5 heads, and a FAST 90/90 combo.

bungo78

iTrader: (1)

subscribed!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

If you price is right it will sell bro, mild steel will work for guys like me that dont care for stainless, my hawks are nice but there is probably n chance i would have bought them if you had offered something like this at the time of my needs.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Oh yea, the fact that my headers cost me more than my 6.0 bothers me, LOL.

$750 L98

well as I said, even if hawks is selling/will sell $500 headers, they still don't fit a stock K-membered 4L60E car as far as I know. Too many people complained about them for me to waste my money, bang up a pretty set of tubes, and then have to suck it up and say "oh well" lol

Atilla the Fun

Okay, if 12 people will publicly swear to buy a set, even if they have to sell their first-born kid to raise the $500, then I'll see this project through. BTW, that $500 doesn't include shipping.