91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

i wanna hear the arguments.... and thoughts on this

ssean92

iTrader: (10)

There is no simple reply to this question, I went with a 383 lt1 but when I first did my swap the ls stuff was so damn expensive, but now if I ahd to do it again i would do the LS1 swap.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i built up a forged 355 tpi swap.... it provides all the power i need for a daily driver...ls swap is superior but alot of people say including my self that the sbcs and lt1 engines sound better....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Is that your main purpose?

stroker_SS

I think a thread like this has already been done?

Gen-III(ls1) engines are better in almost every aspect

-6 bolt mains
-better oil pump and system
-factory cylinder heads that flow like high end aftermarket sbc heads
-non-siamesed intake or exhaust ports(less crack prone)

The list goes on!

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

One of the things I don't like about the gen iii and newer engines is the oiling system. It flows in reverse of normal sbc's in that the rod bearings get oil last making it easier to cause damage to them. That's one of the few downsides to those engines. On the flip side there's very few good reasons to go with an LT1 over a SBC so keep that in mind.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

"LS-series" engines also:

Seriously - once you get past the higher initial cost of the LS swap, the benefits are pretty much completely one-sided.

RS Reaper

Ok, 91camarosRS.
This is like asking "what is better Coke or Pepsi"
Both are great engine and there are other engine that are not as popular that are great also.
So the real questions are:
1) How much house power are you looking for?
2) How much money do you want to spend?
3) How much experience do you have working on a car?
4) How much time are you willing to spend on it?

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

LT1 is a middle child, do a SBC/BBC or do a LSx. There is no sound reason why anyone would want a system that has a waterpump sitting on top of the distributor.
for me anyway.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

ls series engines are a better design period. no contest. the hollow camshaft wont break either. believe me i have tried. take a regular sbc camshaft and throw it on the ground as hard as you can. even though the crank bearings may or may not get oil last these engines handle extreme loads and will do it all day long every day. money is going to be your only crutch.

ssean92

iTrader: (10)

I love my lt1, I will put mine up against any na on on the road, but I will agree that the LS series is a better design, but I think the lt1 got a bad wrap.

chevyowner02

iTrader: (3)

Just depends what hp you wont and how much money you have to spend.I like my lt1 but when I did mine ls stuff was pretty high $ if I was doing one now ls but the lt1 isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

ericjon262

just because the LT1 wasn't in production long doesn't mean it was a bad design. also, remember, some parts from gen 1 smallblocks can be transferred to the Gen 2, like roller rockers, and headers, which can save you quite a bit of money if your on a budget and already have that kind of stuff on your car.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Not that it is the fact of a bad motor, just has some bad flaws and just not up to par with the LS.

ericjon262

I know the opti spark placement wasn't genius, but it had a purpose for being there, by being driven off of the front of the cam, at the timing chain, it takes away the possibility of camshaft torsion affecting ignition timing at higher rpms. I imagine that it also would help to keep the camshaft centered in the bearing, instead of being pulled down onto it by the timing chain, which would help to extend bearing life. what other "bad flaws" do you see in the motor that the gen I smallblock wouldn't have too?

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

well.... im wanting to do a swap in my next car and i can get an lt1 prob for a good price. i talked to a friend who has a 96 lt1 385? and he is putting 650 to the wheels without nos i belive. running mid 9s? he said the main reason he didnt go to the ls1 is they are prone to dead no 8 cylinder. and he explained the reason why the reverse cooling is better against detonation. and he asked me why supercharger kits come with higher boost levels on the lt then the ls and he said becase of the cooling.(said by the pres. of the tulsa camaro firebird club)
i like the lt because its like the old style proven design.
some things could be better yes but i like that. the ls i like too but maybe im just not liking it because i cant have one and they are always faster? lol the ls is just soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo expensive and,this is random, i dont like coil packs they are too expensive if needed to be replaced. and everything has to be specialy made for them. engine mount,headders, cam not old style
i just have a bad taste in my mouth for the new motors because of the rich high school kids that their parents bought them and they are just running around like they are the...... well, you know. and i constantly hear they are not up to par(the lt)? why? because of the design? then why are engine builders still using old style? look at nelson racing engines.... if im not mistaken


(quick story there is a kid here in my hometown who is a sophmore and his grandparents bought him a 2010 ss. wtf?! then my friend with a raggaty looking third gen asked to race and called him on the spot and he chickened out lol, still thats the stuff i dont like)



so any more thoughts?






ps. sorry about not looking for this thread already. i knew better. it was really late and i was not thinking right lol

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

so no im not tryin to make a fight. i guess i should say... i wanna hear a debate???

dont wanna start something that would get me in trouble

ericjon262

I haven't been trying to say that the LTX is somehow way better than the LSX, just that neither is a bad engine, people are quick to say that LTX motors are no good, but they are pretty damn good motors in my opinion the heads flow pretty good out of the box, and have room to grow. it's also nice to know you don't have to spend $700+ on headers if you already have 1 5/8's headers for a gen I motor, assuming gen I to gen II swap. there not bad motors, they had some problems in the earlier years, but so did the LSX motors, all new things will need refinement, unfortunately, the gen II didn't get as long as the Gen I and Gen III/IV motors.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Well, it still drives the oil pump off the cam in the same place, so loosing the rear dist didnt help much from the centering, especially if there is a cam retention plate anyways.

Other than that, i didnt say there were a ton of flaws. Optispark sucks and the water pumps for them cost so much more than the SBC it isnt funny for those who dont have allot and are tryig to build a budget car. Not intake and carb on a LT1, yea, great motor in my opinion, the lower ends can usually take a sound beating for a LONG time.

There are those that have success with the LT1 and there are folks like me that refuse to work on them from bad experiences.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

if i knew more about motors almost two years ago when doing a swap i would have done a nice lt1 swap with ported intake and the hot cam with 1.6 rockers... but im quite happy with my gen 1 build for a daily driver....

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

I'm fairly new to the LSx world, but to my understanding, for cost if you are going to swap in a motor, LS1 is the way to go. If you are going to build a motor, LS2 based is the way to go.

I'm happy with the LT1 swap that I did around 2006. Some of the things I liked about it was how you could hook up a laptop up to the plug-in under the dash, program the flash PCM memory by using the laptop, or just watch the engine/transmission sensors from the laptop. I have mine set up to idle at 550 rpm, along with the hooker exhaust I have, its kind of a quiet sleeper until I get on it. Also, really like the 4L60E over the 700R4. 700R4 Throttle Valve cables suck.

However, fast-forward to today, LSX and LSX-swap parts are way more plentiful. I keep wanting to have a better ignition/computer system and would like to remove more weight from the front of the car. Also keep thinking about the possibility of a 6L80E/6L90E swap if I don't go with a T56. I'm looking into a LT1-to-LS2 swap.

Klortho

There is a guy locally here that had a 9 sec LSx motor with cam/heads and a SC, that's all he did to it. I love my LT1, but I love my LS1 better, as for oiling problems, the only problem I've read of them having is that the passages were smaller than they should, and won't let the oil go down to the pan faster. #8 dead cylinder problems? first time I've heard of that, coil packs? I have 173k miles on my '98 LS1 right now, it idles at 40psi of oil pressure, usually runs close to 80 when WOT. LS1s don't have that kick in the butt feel that an LT1 does, since the torque comes on gradually, not all at once like in a LT1 but I love both motors.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

LOL, you are right, compare a 150K mile LT1 to a 150K mile LS1 aqnd the LT1 oil pressure SUCKS! LOL.

You can port the LS1 oil pump to improve oiling anyway.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

you can build a lt1 engine to walk all over an ls engine... right now my gen 1 bottom end is stronger than the stock ls1 engine.. lt1 engines sound amazing, much better than ls1 engines which most people will agree...i think the lt1 engines are going to be valueable.... only made for like seven years..its a mix between old tech and new tech..... lt1 is a glorified gen 1 block and was gm's last attempt to update the orginal sbc design....

Klortho

The oil pump isn't the problem on the LS1s, it's the passages in the top of the block that lets the oil flow back to the pan is where the problem is, my LT1 with 150k miles on it holds 40 psi at idle on it as well.

As far as an LT1 sounding better than an LS1....I'll have to disagree with you on that, an LS1 with long tubes and the right exhaust sounds 100 times better than an LT1 does (since they changed the firing order the LSx series.)

M G Brewer

That may be true, but not everyone sees every thread, so if the question comes up a few times it just gives everyone the opportunity to really beat it in their heads lol.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

im not saying they sound bad... they do sound good its just that the ls1 have a higher pitched mustang like sounds.. the gen1 and lt1's sound much deeper and some gen1's i have heard sound down right wicked....

DrummerDad

And you can build an LS1 to walk all over an LT1. Its not a question of superiority. The LS1 was a "back to the basics" engineering feat. The LT1 was made to try and fix a couple of inherant problems with the sbc. Its apples and oranges. Both are good engines.

As far as money for a swap? Ive run the numbers on all 3, SBC, LT1, and LS1. Its all really in what kind of deal you can work, and how much you can do on your own without having to buy special stuff. If you can get the SBC for a song, itll be cheaper. Same with the LT and LS.

But for overall potential, the LS wins. Its newer, more efficient, and a better design, as long as you arent scared of FI. And look at it this way: the SBC has been around for over 50 years, and its went from somewhere around 200 hp, to big cube small block racing engines making in excess of 1000hp. Just imagine where the LS will be in 20-30 years.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

IMO there is nothing special about the lt1. It was a **** update to a great original design. It would be like mcdonalds slapping a fresh turd in the middle of a big mac and calling it a gen 2 big mac and then selling it for more. It doesn't sound good with an exhaust. Doesn't make crap for power unless you are sponsored by a shop.

The lt1 will never be valuable because its going to be the engine that most forget about and everyone else wants to. If you are going to build a sbc there are only two smart choices, a gen 1 or a gen iii.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i personally never owned a lt1.... i've built up a mild gen1 350 and it sounds amazing and i have spanked a few built up fox body mustang gts.... i think the gen1 engines will always be around and be more popular than the ls1..... the gen1 sbc has so much history behind it... i dont think it will ever fade away...

stroker_SS

Well, which one "sounds better" is a pointless argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0xeIrSSfeQ
I will have to say this is one of the best "sounding" engines I've heard for awhile(make sure you here the last 30 seconds-pure sex).

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

well... it looks like the ls is in the lead

$750 L98

I have both a LT1 vette, and a LSx Firebird swap. The LT1 sounds better personally, but the LSx wins in the "easy to work on" department. That video up above does sound great. I currently have thrush on mine (flowmaster 40 copies) and they sound decent, but about the only thing that makes a LSx sound good is borla/corsa/magnaflow.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I don't think anyone disagrees that for stock performance and build potential, the LS1 is better than the LT1. What the LT1 has going for it is price and sharing common parts with the gen 1 small blocks. The LT1 uses the same engine mounts as a gen 1 small block when swapping into your thirdgen and the same exhaust manifolds/headers will bolt up to it. The LS1 will require aftermarket engine mounts and aftermarket or custom fabricated exhaust components to swap into a 3rd gen. The LT1s are also sold for cheaper than the LS1s, although the LS1s have become more affordable over the years and will probably continue to do so for a while. It's all about determinine what level of performance you're seeking and how much you want to spend to get there.

I did an LT1 swap because I came across a good deal on a donor car that I could afford and I wanted to reuse my headers from my TPI engine. If I were to do the swap today, I would more than likely go for the LS1 due to prices dropping, availability rising and so much aftermarket support for the platform out there. I by no means regret having an LT1 though and it keeps me entertained :-)