fullthrottle72

Ok, I've done some research, here's my preliminary plans. Please chime in with alternative suggestions, and or, info if this won't be feasible. I would like you experienced LT1'ers to give it a quick overview, BEFORE I start cutting.

Car: 1972 Chevelle, all new metal, that was a job!
Recently purchased 95 LT1 w/ 140k. $300
Engine complete minus A/C, and computer. Supposedly running. I kinda believe it, still has all crosshatching, no bent pushrods, no chunks, still had the oil in it.

Like many people, I'm trying to do this low budget, I consider the build a hobby, not building a show car, or race car. My plans are to install the LT1, use a 700R4 that I have, use megasquirt II, with ford EDIS ignition. I'm intending to completely remove optispark, install EDIS crank sensor, install a gen1 cam and timing chain, and buy an ebay $180 dollar electric water pump. Also plan on custom sumping the tank, and putting an inline high volume fuel pump.

the reason I want to do the gen 1 cam and timing is b/c of price of parts. By using an old school cam, I'll have way more selection, and way less money spent. Also, the LT1 timing sets are ridiculous. I refuse to pay 500 for a roller timing chain. I'd rather buy the electric water pump and pay $50 for a gen 1 double roller. Is this possible? I'm prepared to mod the timing chain cover as necessary, but has anyone heard of any other issues. I hear the cam will go, but I'm in question about the timing chain.

Any advice would be great. Just please, don't suggest things that are really expensive. If I had tons of money, I would just buy a crate FI engine.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.

You do realize, I hope, that this site is dedicated to the 3rd generation of GM f-body cars. We can let this live as long as questions and discussion can be related to 3rd gens. Since many members have converted their 3rd gen to LT1, as long as the discussion stays there and not things that relate specifically to the Chevelle, you're okay.

If budget is your primary driver (and having the car run, I assume), stick with Opti and LT1 PCM. Opti has gotten a bum rap, and you're going through a lot of expense and hassle to avoid what is avoidable without a bunch of hoops. Keep the Opti dry and you won't have any problems.

Ditto the Megasquirt and EDIS - just get an LT1 harness and PCM, you'll be $'s ahead.

There might be more Gen I cams available, but only if you're talking flat tappet. With them, you can eliminate about 75% of those grinds just because they are fundamentally inferior to roller lifters. There are plenty of roller grinds available, and you only need one. You don't have to spend $500 on a timing set. I really think you're barking up the wrong tree with this one. Even if you do have to spend $500 for a timing set, you'll have that available by not bastardizing the engine control.

That's what it looks like from my point of view, for what it's worth.

fullthrottle72

That's my error. I mistakenly thought that LT1's were a factory third gen motor. I guess that would start in the 4th gen. The reason I thought to chime in, is because every time I research, there is always a link going right to this website, and I wanted to ask the group that had the most experience.

That being said, I am definitely equipping the car with megasquirt. I've messed with it before, and I really like the process of building it, and ability of tuning it. Well worth the money.

The root of the question was more of a "can I" than a "should I". I'm really curious if it's possible to fit an LT1 with an old timing chain. I don't need roller lifters, I was hoping that gen 1 lifters would fit. I've already crunched the numbers, and it will be more cost effective to do it, if it's possible. If someone has done it, or heard of it, please let me know.

chevyowner02

iTrader: (3)

You can use the gen 1 timing chain but you will have to use a eletric water pump.

Klortho

If you have the complete engine minus the computer, the PCM is cheap to buy, and plus the tuning is as simple as plugging a laptop into the OBD port and firing up the software.

Keep the roller lifters, tbh...if you are going to drop the induction, lifters, timing chain and such....it would just be best to go ahead and put in a regular SBC since that is going to destroy the best thing about the LT1.

fullthrottle72

The main reason I'm going LT1 is because of the vortec aluminum heads, fuel injection, and inexpensive horsepower. Just because it won't have roller lifters, or a manual water pump, in my opinion, is not "dropping the induction", This motor will definitely not be anything close to a gen 1 SBC. Considering that it will have headers, aftermarket cam, electric water pump, tuned timing and fuel delivery, and no smog, it will probably outperform a stock LT1. Also, I got the entire engine for the price of what a decent timing chain would cost. The reason I don't expect everyone to agree with me on the megasquirt or EDIS, is because I am doing that strictly because I want to. I've used them before, on a V12 jaguar, and I liked them. This opti-spark has 140k on it, and for the price of a replacement, I can build my own ignition system. I enjoy the wiring, and custom work. The thought of buying a stock EMS and retrofitting it just seems wrong. Thanks for all of the input though. I think I'll meet in the middle. I'll install the engine, get the megasquirt to control the optispark, and leave the cam and timing alone for now. That will probably be the biggest bang for my buck, and allow to at least find out what surprises the previous engine owner was holding back on. Thanks for any and all input though!

Klortho

Well, the LT1 doesn't actually have vortec heads on it, they're a special reverse cooling head that was designed for the LT1. People have stated that they are the same as a vortec which I tend to disagree but to each his own.

Roller lifters will be best for the engine to help free the horsepower up, else people wouldn't be converting flat tappet older SBC's to use roller cams, you may not even have to swap lifters out if there aren't any wear on the rollers and they hold pressure real good.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

a local friend of mine is making 800whp on a 355ci lt1/4 motor/tt i built for him, he is using ms2 for the management, hes gotten real good with the ms2 system now, and using the edis8 feature. we had a custom 36-1 reluctor made for use on the damper. and using ford 4coil towers. doesnt miss abeat with that ignition. maybe not what the info u were looking for, but the ms2 is more than capable of lighting off the turbo engine. im not sure a stock lt1 ignition would ever keep up. hes using a lt4 h/i.
he is actually constructing a ms2 for one of my ls projects, which eliminate all of the oe gm sensors, cam,crank etc. and go off the 36-1 reluctor for ignition.
based on what ive seen, with his motor. i would not go with anything else to fire a ltx if i ever built one again
he is on the ms2 forums. sn weretigerss

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Obviously you are more than the typical "magazine mechanic". Red flags went up with mention of Megasquirt and budget, but you clearly know your way around that system.

The Opti might have more difficulty keeping up with the 800 HP engine you built, but it wouldn't have any problems with the engine you're talking about. But, that's up to you.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

i never mentioned budget, but the possiblity of the ms2 system. for use on lt1 that i have some personal exp with and lt1 engine.
magazine mechanic?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Sorry, the OP mentioned budget.

"Magazine mechanic - a person of apparent vast mechanical knowledge who has gained all of their acumen from reading magazines and has never turned a wrench other than changing the oil and spark plug on their dad's lawn mower."*


*I made that up

chevyowner02

iTrader: (3)

I have seen a 900hp Impy (youtube) and lets say the opit did not last past the burn out.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

cool! makes sense

Klortho

Oh, and the $180 waterpump needs to be for reverse cooling. CSR makes a piece that bolts to the original waterpump housing to keep it reverse cooling and it is $180 from Summit

muddyjimmy

iTrader: (2)

Are you are talking about the Imp at the LTx Shootout last year at KCIR? If so I was there for that and he had that opti swapped out for his next run. The distributor was not causing any problems on the next couple runs. I dont think that the 900hp was the cause of opti failure.

fullthrottle72

This is going to be a fun build. I just upped my budget, by verdict of the second half, and am going through the bottom end now. I do have experience with MSII, and edis, and will definitely go that route. Since I posted last, I installed, just to test it out, a solid cam, lifters, and double roller timing chain out of a gen1. It is actually pretty cool how the old stuff bolts right in. I had to delete some things, such as cam retainer, and water pump pto, but it fit fine. The double roller does hit the timing chain cover, so I'll probably go gear drive.
The water pump I'm talking about for $180 actually replaces the internals of the original water pump. So, in light of my recent tests and budge increase, here's the latest plan.

1. gen1 roller cam, with original LT1 lifters, provided they're good. I'll also need springs and hardened pushrods, and 1.6" rockers.
2. either forged piston/ring replacement, or 383 rotating
assembly, depending on machine shop inspection. I want to bump the compression to somewhere around 12:1
3. electric water pump, hv fuel pump
4. after market injectors and throttle body
5. stainless headers
6. edis8, msII
7. aluminum radiator

So, now that I've got a pretty solid game plan, do any of you experienced builders think that my $5k budget is realistic, after all is said and done. Note, I'm doing it all except machine work.