88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

ok now I have gone through so many posts but no one ever finishes on this subject. Do the BBC hooker supercomp longtube swap headers work with just a flange change? there are tons of post saying how close it should be and how they think someone did it


in short I found a set locally and I can get them very cheap. I just want to know befor I go and chop these up to find I have more work than making my own. (yes I read the 1 7/8 tubes are a little over kill and show no performance over 1 3/4")

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

I know their close, but yeah 1 7/8" is overkill. You going to need one hell of a motor not to loose low end hp w/ that big of a primary.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm. I don't recall reading anything about big-block headers being used, but I guess I could have just overlooked that part...

I myself have a set of Hooker Super-Competition headers (with 1.75" primaries) that were originally built for a 3rdgen with the "normal" Gen-I SBC. I'm going to be altering those to work with the LSx flange, but I need to set the engine in before I can start work on that... (I simply haven't been able to work on my swap for the last 6 weeks or so.)

cam-

Originally there was a board member here making modded headers for LS1 swaps before Hawks began offering his. IIRC a few guys ordered some from him and one got screwed and nothing really ever came of it but in those old posts the talk was that the BBC Hooker LT's were the ones this particular guy was using as a starting point. I think it was more for the 1 3/4" though than it was about the best starting point for fitment although they were not bad ( I saw some pics somewhere years ago with a set modded ) If your planning on making up a set I dont think it really matters what ones you start with so long as you have LT's and you have patience and skill you can make them fit. Sheldon did a fine job with Hedman sbc LT's


That said as much as I love to fab anything and everything I can I have experience building headers and its a fiddly major PITA to make them look nice and neat and fit cleanly. For the time it would have taken me I just couldnt justify it as I know I would have spent weeks meticulously fitting them and heck even buying the stainless pieces ( elbows etc. ) is not cheap so factor all that in and all of a sudden the Hawks headers started looking better. There is literally not one single thing that you can complain about with the Hawks stainless works headers. They perform great, the fitment is perfection, the ground clearance is sick, and the build quality is top notch. BUT this comes at a cost and likely the main reason your posting is to avoid dropping 8 bills on a pair but if that ends up being what you do at least you can rest easy knowing you have bought a quality piece. Just be sure to do your own y-pipe

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Im with cam on this... I will recommend Hawks LS1 headers until Im blue in the face. Yes they are expensive. But, lets not forget a couple KEY points.
1) THEY ARE STAINLESS
2) They fit perfectly
3) They look good, and will continue to look good because...
4) THEY ARE STAINLESS

I, and others, cant say much good about the y-pipe though...You are better off fabbing that on your own. But unless you are a competent welded, preferrably with a TIG welder, you are gonna have fun getting them to work and look good.

If someone comes up with a reliable formula for making headers for the LS swap out of another set...Ide really like to know. Because you never know when swap #3 is going to happen

J.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I agree for a stainless longtube + swap header they are a deal! but lets face it people want afordable steel ones too.

I think I will pass on the swap headers since they are already coated and that will just make it a pain.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, but even with them being made of stainless steel, they're STILL too expensive. When I was working on my original L98 setup, I bought a pair of stainless shorties from SLP (who overprices *everything*, IMHO), and they were STILL only $450. Adding the Jet-Hot coating was another $175 or so.

$800 for what is essentially the very same thing is just profit-taking (& arguably price gouging) in my eyes. (But hey, they are the only game in town, & that comes with some pretty nice perks!)

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that when/if someone ever comes out with a viable alternative, the price of those headers will drop noticeably within 6 months.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

But its not the same thing. You said $450 + $175 = $625. Thats not THAT much cheaper than $800. Whats another 175 in the grand scheme of things. Ive seen coating come off, and start to rust. The donor car I got had coated Grotohams (sp?) which are nice headers, and they were rusted in spots. Where they were scratched on the bottom and also up on the primaries. Plus you figure LS1 parts vs. older SBC. Long tube vs. shortys. Whats the flange thickness difference? Stainless is just more expensive. So, I cant really blame Hawks/Stainless Works for how much they cost.

But on top of all of that, and you hit the nail on the head rumble...its supply and demand. I dont doubt that if someone comes along with a set of swap headers in mild steel that people would buy them. But dont think for one second they will be dirt cheap. They'll still be a specialty part, and will be priced to compete with the hawks stuff...but they will most likely price them JUST low enough for people to buy...not at $400. So I wouldnt bet too much money on the price of the stainless ones dropping drastically.

I dont know... I still say they are worth the price tag. That was the only big expense besides my donor car that I had to shell out cash for. But there was no way I was going to try to make my own...and no way I could use manifolds. So, to me, they were the only way to go. In fact, even if there were a mild steel set available for say, 650...Ide still pop for the hawks.

But thats just me. Not sayin anyone is right/wrong. Im definetly one of those "more than one way to fry an egg" kind of guys...and I realize the benefit of having more than one option

J.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

The way that my costs have gone in this swap, I'm starting to say that too.

No idea, but since I sold 'em to a local friend, I can get a decent measurement if you want. I do recall that the cyl. head flange was freakin' thick though...

Yep - and a little bit more demanding to "work" it as well.

Yeah, no argument there - and I think that that's really the crux of the matter. Regardless of how many mfrs start making them, they're all going to realize that the customer is going to want the power (and/or MPG/driveability benefits) of the new generation of engines, & like it or not, they WILL fork out the cash for 'em. (Doesn't mean that we'll be thrilled about it, but given human nature, I'd say that's a reasonable conclusion...)

Ugh - I'd be just as irritated at a mild-steel set at 650. That's still high, IMO. But your words are a pretty good testimonial for those headers, for sure.
(Quick tip - if they ask to quote you, get some good compensation out of the deal!)

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Haha...Compensation??? That would have been nice! Im sure a couple people have purchased them due to my, and a few others threads. Maybe I should ask? hahahha I couldnt even get feedback on the issues I had with my y-pipe. I mean...Im not sure if you saw my y-pipe thread, and I dont wanna clog this one up with that non-sense, but i had to basically take what they sent me (for an extra few hundred bucks) and completely re work all of it. And it was all stainless...and like you said, very fun to work with. It was terrible. I tried talking with Bruce about it...and I think I got one email response maybe asking for pictures or something along those lines. Then nothing. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth with them...although it wouldnt and hasnt kept me from ordering from them since. And Im not sayin anything bad about Bruce or Hawks for that matter. Just that darn y-pipe really irked me.

Ah well... This stupid hobby is making me broke anyway, headers aside. And thoughts of F.I. next summer arent helping matters...and may very well require a step up in headers anyway

J.

Pwebbz28

iTrader: (1)

This is entirely not true. Do a quick search over on ls1tech.com. TexasSpeedandPerformance just came out with a 4th gen set of 1 7/8 headers and picked up power with no loss of low end.

I have a set of kooks 1 7/8 on my heads and cam TA and its not hurting for low end power.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

There are people who say that 1-7/8" headers are fine, but there's also a post that states that Lou Gigliotti ran back-to-back tests with 1.75" primaries & 1-7/8" primaries (as he was trying to determine whether or not it would be worthwhile to come out with a new product for Vettes), & the difference just flat-out wasn't worth it - and this was for the 6L engine, not the 5.7. If memory serves, there was virtually no gain whatsoever. And that's not the only post that I've seen that's said that.

It's cool that you're getting good performance from your combo, but come on - you've got heads & cam on an LS1. Do you SERIOUSLY think that it's going to be down on power?? (That was intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, BTW...)

Tell you what - register on headerdesign.com, & then use their applet to get optimized dimensions for primary size/diameter & collector size. (You will need to input realistic info though.) I think you'll be surprised.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Ive seen that thread a million times. Im not a complete beleiver.

Being the fact that they were tested against the most basic 1 3/4" LT's that you can buy.

Im 100% standing my ground that if they were up against a set of QTP's or even some Stainless works headers they would loose power.

For a 4th gen, their great, cause their avaliable and decently price. For a thirdgen LSx, where you would need to fabricate them, i wouldnt bother.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Uhhh, not sure what you're referring to, but IIRC he was testing a set of his own prototype 1-7/8" headers against his 1.75" headers. You'd think that they'd be pretty similar/comparable...

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

He tested them against pacesetters.

He's a great guy, and ive bought lots of parts from him before, but he did test them against the most basic 1 3/4" headers you can buy.

Im sure they can offer some gains, but IMO, if your not planning on a procharger or some big cubes, ad 1 3/4" w/ velocity merge collectors is your best bet.

$750 L98

Also if you want if you're ok with going shorty headers, the edelbrock LS1 shorties work, part number 65732 on jegs.

LS1IrocZ

Some of us are going with pretty big nitrous motors and want bigger primaries. I say the Hawks headers are an amazing peice, but I sure wish there was an option for 1 7/8. FWIW hawks/stainless works headers are spot on for the price. The quality of anything SW makes is through the roof. Those are actually on the cheaper end of high end custom stainless headers. Paying the price they are asking for such a quality product is actually a pretty good deal.

I'm looking for a 1 7/8 header I can flange swap for my nitrous motor. Sure wish I could just get bigger stainless works headers though.