screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

Hello everyone,

I have been researching putting an new engine into my 1982 Transm am. The guys at mofbody directed me to your website. You guys made my decision to go with a LS1. I have been searching high and wide for a Ls1 for abt 2-3 months now.

I found a guys close to my place selling and GTO engine with 23K on it with everything except for the transmission for 3.5K. I have learned form here that going with a 4th gen f-body LS1 is best , but have not seen anything about using a GTO LS1. I might be looking at all the wrong places.

How difficult is it to put a 2004 GTO LS1 into a 3rd gen? I had Kinda decided to go with a spohn K-memeber and trans X-memeber to clear the alternator, ac comprossor to clear the f-body Ls1.

Dont have a clue about GTO LS1. Any advice or direction or links is appriciated. I said I would give the guys an answer pretty quick because he is moving and wants the engine gone.

cam-

Well as far as I have seen I have yet to see anyone whos taken a complete GTO drop out and swap it into a third gen. So we are rather curious to see all what fits and what doesn't in terms of accessories and mounts. Wish I had more for ya but please post up with whatever you do and what works out

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

MY best guess is that everything but the oil pan will fit, but that's totally & completely a wild-hair guess, because as cam- said, it's definitely not a common swap. If you search over at LS1Tech.com (especially in the Conversions forum), you should be able to find out how the front accessory drive item depth compares with the F-body units...

Hmmm... Sounds like if you play your cards right, you might be able to save a buck or two...

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

After some research, To use a 2004 GTO engine I need to change the whole oiling system (Got to talk to a tech adviser at S&P).
Oil pan, Oil pickup tube, and Oil splash shield.

I am going to run to a dealer to see what these parts and how much they cost.

If I want to use the A/C then I need to get the "upper air relocation kit" . S&P need to know what engine its going on and what car its going into because they said its custom. something about they need it to figure out the spacers on the pully. Its comes with a new comprossor, ideler pully, another pully, bely and tension bar. but $$$$ $800.00.


But I am just wondering if I go with the spohn K-memeber, if I can avoid the costs above altogether and use the stock GTO air configuration. I am goig to call spohn.

I will let you guys know

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was going to suggest that.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Guys..........

I was able to go to GM and get printouts of the LS1 oils pans of the GTO and 98-2002 camamro and able to price out the difference in changing them out. I will scan and post them up.

I had a question about about the transmission, driveshaft and rear diff.

I have read that the 4L60E bolts right in. But since I am not getting a transmission with this deal , I was wondering going with a 4L80E trans from a truck..... stronger and easier to find. I read that they both are exactly the same.

a) Any comments why not to go this route ??............

I was not able to call spohn in time. Some brainstorming questions....

b) Will my stock 1982 firebird drive shaft bolt right onto the the new transmission (4l60E/4L80E).

c) I have rear drums on my 82 now. If I wanted to change to rear discs. Which is preferable

2) late 3rd gen rear
1) 4 gen rear assembly. would this force me to get a 4 gen drive shaft ?

Klortho

4L80E is like putting a 400 Turbo in, it's bigger physically than a 700R4/4L60E. Best thing, get a 4L60E from a 4th gen F-body, get the torque arm also since the one in your '82 is different.

Driveshaft won't work due to the transmission being different in the '82 model. (it's not a 700R4)

'89-'92 F-body rear would be preferrable due to the PBR calipers and you can run the 3rd gen wheels

4th gen rear : '93-'97 has the same calipers as the '89-92 and '98+ 4th gen rears has better brakes but you have to run either 4th gen wheels on any 4th gen rear, or aftermarket with the correct offset to keep the wheels from sticking out an additional 1" on each side.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

I have read that the 4L60E bolts right in. But since I am not getting a transmission with this deal , I was wondering going with a 4L80E trans from a truck..... stronger and easier to find. I read that they both are exactly the same.

a) Any comments why not to go this route ??............
The 4L80e requires some changed things, a computer tune is needed last time i was doing research, along with a flexplate spacer, and a couple other things, there is a thread about it in the automatic transmission section on LS1tech.

I was not able to call spohn in time. Some brainstorming questions....

b) Will my stock 1982 firebird drive shaft bolt right onto the the new transmission (4l60E/4L80E).
Yes, your stock driveshaft will bolt in

c) I have rear drums on my 82 now. If I wanted to change to rear discs. Which is preferable

2) late 3rd gen rear
1) 4 gen rear assembly. would this force me to get a 4 gen drive shaft ?

I used a later thirdgen disc rear for the end of last season, but have now swapped to a 3.73 geared LS1 rear differential with the LS1 brakes. No, the F-bodies from 82 - '02 have the same driveshaft length.
I used a ALuminum driveshaft from a 2001 WS6 with my old drum rear, my old thirdgen disc rear, and now with my LS1 disc rear.

Hope this helps

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

This helped really a alot.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

So guys........

How much should I offer this guys.

The deal is a 2004 GTO with 21K miles with all accessories. No transmission. No warrenty.

Another conceren....He said the engine has been sitting for 8-9 months now. I think he got it with a 6 month warrenty from cleavelend auto parts and he said he had a video about it running before.

What kind of signs of trouble would I need to look for on the engine and what would be the risks. If there a engine buying check list I could follow?

I was guessing.

$3500 - (average price of a low millage LS1/4L60E package)
minus - $500 (to change the oiling system(oil pan, pickuptube, windage tray))
minus - $750(for a 4L60E or 4L80E transmission)

= $2250.00

Does that sound a fair deal ??

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The '82 driveshaft will NOT work with a 4L60E. As Klortho said, it is different. Specifically, it is longer because the '82 transmissions were shorter. Ditto the torque arm - it is longer because the transmission is shorter.

Trust us on this one. . .

For the record, a stock '82 auto transmission is the TH200C - lock-up torque converter 3-speed. It is not the same as the TH200-4R - not even close.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

Thanks five7kid..........

I guess I need to confirm what transmission I got. The TH200C or the 700R4. I am getting mixed answers from many sourses.

Is there a link how to check what transmission and rear diff I got?? I looked for the RPO codes, buts its lost from the console.

Now morehead scatching .... if I have the TH200C and not the 700R4. (I preay to God I have the 700R4), I am just trying to make sure what all I need to get a 4L60E in there.

1. Spohn LSX adj Torq arm with LSX tran X-member
2. Stock drive shaft and stock rear diff

or

1. Spohn LSX adj Torq arm with LSX tran X-member
2. 4th gen drive shaft and 4th gen rear diff. I have read on one of the threads here that the 4th gen rear diff will bolt right in but will stick out 2" on each side. I dont care about that as long as my 15" stock turbo rimms can fit on the rear 4th gen axcel. I could find anything to confirm that .

J's T/A

iTrader: (2)

The 82 torque arm will work, until I replaced it with a Jegs unit my 82 torque arm had been behind a 4l60e and t56 with no trouble.. the driveshaft I replaced with an aluminum piece from inland empire.

My swap is an LT1 but many of the challenges are similar if not identical.. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions since we have same year cars, troubles are similar.. mechanical to electric speedo, need to switch sending unit in gas tank and install pump, etc..

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Unless someone swapped in a later transmission, it will be the TH200C. Is your shifter D21, or O321? If just 3 forward speeds, it certainly is not a TH700R-4.

4th gen aluminum driveshafts are easily available (at least they were when I was looking). Beefier than 3rd gen Al driveshafts, will work fine.

Rearend - it doesn't much matter what yours is. It isn't up to the task. Either beef it up (see tech article linked from the thirdgen.org homepage), or plan on a 12-bolt/9". Stock 4th gen isn't significantly stronger (28-spline vs. 26-spline axles, 7.625" vs. 7.5" ring gear - in the direction of goodness, but not sufficient), and causes the width problems. I've only had drum rear to date, I chose to beef up a 3rd gen disk rear, we'll see if I wasted $800.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

I just called Hawks Tech support

They said to put a 4L60E in a 3rd gen

I need
the following
1. late 3rd gen driveshaft and torque arm from a 700R4.
or
2. 4gen drive shaft and torque arm from a 4L60E
or
3. either of the above with a Spohn 4L60E torque arm.

My Stock rearend will work in all cases.

I guess I need to start looking for a driveshaft.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

You didn't put a location but since you came from one of the local clubs I am guessing you're from missouri. I would also go to team3rdgen.com since we are mostly in MO too if you need parts.

I have both the driveshaft and torque arm out of my 91 since I put in a complete LS1/t56/4thgen driveshaft and torque arm. I'm sure you can have them for very little. Less then you can have them shipped to you from out of state.

Good luck on the swap.
Your going to pay a more using the GTO LS1 as a starting point, but hey it's only money and they are making more.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Aaron.........

Thats one of the things I first calculated. I went to the GM dealership and was able to find and calculate the cost of swapping out the Oil pan from the GTO LS1 with a 98-02 f-body LS1. It came at $460.00. I am going to explain that to the guy and hopefully he will take it out of the cost.

J's T/A

iTrader: (2)

you don't need a new torque arm, just your old mount and arm. They will swap over to a 4l60e or t56 no problem.. don't waste the money on that part, unless you are going to upgrade to spohn, jegs, bmr etc... I don't know why hawks said you need one, unless my car is some sort of anomoly.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

I thought so too...... until I figured I have a TH200C instead of a TH700R4. GM only put the 700R4 in 83.

TH200C is a 3 speed auto , where as 700R4 is a 4 speed and similar to 4L60E.

I am guessing I will need

late 34r gen or any 4th gen parts like shifter, shift indicator plate (I dont want to change my stock console), driveshaft.

While I am at it, I though it would be nice to swap the rear diff for one with posi and disk.

But I am hoping what u said would work and is the back of my mind , I wont be buying anyting extra unless I absolutly need it. The budget in already getting inflated day by day.

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

Here are the schematics of the 2004 GTO LS1 and 98-02 F-body LS1 showing the difference in the oil pans. One of the admins can maybe put it in a more appropriate place. [Courtesy GM]

paul_huryk

You may be able to use the GTO oil pan if you go to a tubular crossmember - this is only a guess.

4L60 or F Body 6 speed will work - and yes you need a new driveshaft. The auto would use a stock length DS as the Th700 and 4L60 are the same size.

1988RSLS1

Im doing same swap, Gto oil pan will clear stock crossmember, barely, but it will
my tranny is 4l60e, driveshafts between 3d and 4th gen are interchangable
and i got 4th gen rearend, which went right in the place of the old one no problems
but im trying to do it smoglegal and damn exhaust system - nightmare..gto cats wont clear the bottom of the car so ill try to go with stock set up...

socal

we did it w an 05 gto changed the oil pan an related parts and droped it in follow my link and you can see it in the 92z