SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hey Everyone.

Alright, im well aware these are not a drop in header. However. At the price difference between ebay stainless headers ($190) and 3rd gen swap headers ($800) id much prefer to modify a set of headers to fit then spend the money on swap headers.

From what i know, the Collectors go right into the frame rail. Thats an ok issue to deal with, not that hard.

From what i can see, the passenger side header would require just collector work, and maybe a little primary modification, but less then the drivers side.

The drivers side forward most primary will clear the k-member, the collector would need obvious modifications. From what i can see one of the primary's will hit off the suspension mount. Im thinking that if i cut this out, and use some stainless tubing, and can re-route this tube upwards to clearance the suspension mount.

I figure if i cut the collector extension completely off, and then angle cut that i might be able to deal with clearance. Worst that happens is i cut the collector off the primary's and do some re-routing.

I know it would be pretty complicated, but im pretty handy with a welder, and i figure it would save me alot of money over swap headers.

Maybe theres more issues then im seeing?

Sheldon

cam-

With swap headers at $800.00 there has been a LOT of dialog in here about other affordable options. That being said fourth gen headers have basically been determined to be not even worth the bother and you'd likely have less work by starting from scratch. There is a viable mod option though by using third gen headers and modding them to fit the LS1. One board member on here was making swap headers like this for $200.00 ( you supply the headers ) but what he was doing was not all that difficult. The headers of choice are Hooker LT's because of the 1 3/4" primary size. The LS1 header flanges can be purchased new for $40.00 and from the pics I saw you only have to cut, off set, and re-weld the center two pipes then weld them all to the new flanges. There are posts with pics on here somewhere if you search I know MrDude1 had a set made amongst others so hopefully this is of some help.

Air_Adam

Big block swap headers, with slight tweaks to the tubes, will accept LS1 flanges. Its been done on this board before. Someone did it with the Hooker swap headers IIRC.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Here's a 2000 Camaro SS LS1 exhaust manifold with a BBC header gasket sitting on it.

cam-

I've also read that small block Ford exhaust port spacing is IDENTICAL to LS1's

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

But you'd still have to find a set of Ford headers that would fit in the 3rd gen chassis.

cam-

True its not what i would do but I figured I'd post it up in this thread. Never know someone might have a set of sbf headers lying around and try it and presto winner.

The Hooker LT mod headers looked mighty easy in the pics I saw. They are on here somewhere.

Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

I'm not feeling the price tag of $800. Kinda interested about the whole BBC header. I was even thinking about making my own. One guy on the board made some and looked good!

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

I know I'm reviving an old thread, but could you tell me exactly which headers these were?!

cam-

IIRC they were the Hooker super comp BBC headers using the GM LS1 flanges. Ive also seen guys have success using Ford Mustang headers on LS1 swaps as the piping is close but this was on other builds not third gens.

You can stop showing me your O face now

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

they were basic hooker 1 3/4" long tubes that the guy cut the flanges off and rewelded the ls1 flanges onto and put two 15 degree or so bends into the center pipes. For $200, I'd build a jig and pump out dozens, just doesn't seem to be a market once you consider how expensive the hooker long tubes are to purchase then ship to someone to mod then ship back. Basically at the same price point as buying hawks swap headers almost.


Figure $520 for the sbc or bbc hooker long tubes for this chassis, then a set of kooks flanges for $110, then paying someone $200 to mod them....you're at the price of the hawks.

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Tell me that header on the right doesn't look pretty damn close to the hawks?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hooker-Super...item53ea9db42d

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I tried mocking up 4th gen headers into my chassis. When I was done, every single tube had to be cut off or modified. Years ago I had access to tri five headers which is what your link is for, as well as chevelle and nova headers. None of them came close to fitting at all. They all were either too low, or too wide for our chassis. Thirdgens have a very narrow frame spacing which makes finding headers a pain in the butt.

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, bummer. I've been searching and reading for a long time now, but an not sure which headers to start off with for an LS1 swap. I'm ok with 8 hours of work, just not $800.........so far this is what I know:

4th gen LS headers - collector kicks out aprox 15* instead of in which makes the collector run into the frame rail. To make work the entire collector needs to be cut and modified along with primary tubes.

Hooker supercomp BBC headers - Expensive, and each primary needs to be moved and welded to an LS flange.

Fox-body headers - Not a lot of info, but are said to have exhaust ports line up. Aside from that I've no clue.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

You either need to make entire custom headers like I did or just bite the bullet and pay the money. Either way I'm $450+ into my newest set that I'm making and not even sure I bought enough u-bends yet.

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, it's starting to look that way. I'm also thinking if I'm building them, the 4th gen stainless ebay jobbers might be worth the $170.

If I have to build them anyway, I can at least hack them up and have collectors, flanges, and some usable pipe to build with on top of whatever primary pipe I need to buy. Also need some stainless mig wire.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Thought those looked familiar...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, nobody was bidding on them, so I put in the minimum bid about half an hour before the auction ended - had to go to a meeting, couldn't be at the computer when the auction ended. When I got home, it said I won the auction. So, I paid for them.

This afternoon, I had a message from Holley Performance: "Just found out these were labeled incorrectly and they are actually ceramic coated. Is this ok?"

What do you think I should say?



(Yes, I already told them that was okay... )

fast377

iTrader: (4)

That's awesome! Provided they don't hang down lower than the Hawks (hopefully they are higher), those might actually work for me. I'm running rack and pinion, and my steering shaft and u joint contact the first two primaries (my shaft goes like this / from the column instead of the stock | from the column)...on those hookers, it looks like I might be able to run my steering shaft through the first two primary tubes. Post up your results with lots of pics either way.

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Pretty sure they're going on a tri 5.....look at his avitar.

Smookin deal btw!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Tell you what: I'm going to have the headers out of the LS1/4L60E Camaro soon to get them coated (won a National DRAGSTER drawing for free ceramic coating - what are the odds). So, I'll slide these Hookers up there while the Hawks headers are out to see how it looks.

The Trifive collectors can point straight back, but the 3rd gen have to avoid the angled-in frame piece. If the collectors clear, the tubes most likely will clear everything else.

fast377

iTrader: (4)

That would be great if you could do that. In the event that they do fit, and they don't hang down too low, would you mind taking a couple of specific measurements and pictures for me? We can discuss through pm when the time comes, if you wish. Thanks!

robguitargod1

iTrader: (4)

Already solved?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I need another thirdgen with a lsx motor in it so i can start making headers and selling them. They arent too difficult to make, just abit time consuming. Shortys would be easiest to make since you can install them from up top. it would be more of a midlength design and I bet it wont kill hp/tq that much. Its already been proven here that a proper sized shorty/midlength type header can match a set of regular longtubes on the engine dyno on a hot 530hp SBC, so on most LSx builds under 650hp, I bet that would be a good bet. Figure 2" primary or do a step 1 7/8 to 2" to cover a wide range of applications.

Then you can run dual exhaust down factory location with great clearance and have enough flow to support the power. Win Win

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I'm at $450 for materials for mild steel headers, how much labor cost you going to charge to make them compete with hawks or others?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not sure, havent thought about it. I was gonna start making turbo headers like my current setup since alot of ppl ask about "kits" for these cars but none are available.

I was at 100 bucks in J-bends to finish my manifolds starting from half of my other headers.. so total in just primary tubing and flanges I probably had 300-320 bucks. 50 for collectors. But it was this high because I started with Hooker flanges with stubouts that cost 175 bucks! easier to work with but expensive. I can get custom flanges for 40 bucks and start with those. So you could have a set of shorties for 250 or less in just materials.

I dont know what I'd have in longtubes, depending on how long, probably 50% more money with a few more bends.

Thats what I considered a good shorty/midlength header. Abit cheaper, still have 12-16" tubes likely (maybe more is possible, havent looked into that) and with a decent collector design, it should still support good power. A great idea for budget swaps not looking to get alot of power out of them.

If you got a stout LSx making over 550hp, then chances are you have money to buy the darn swap headers! Or atleast you should

Grifter757

iTrader: (5)

Me and my buddies where thinking the same thing with the LS swap Turbo headers. But now I'm doing a all motor car to. HHHMMMMMM

STREETDEMON

Orr89RocZ, i wouldn't waste any time making shorty headers, there are plenty of inexpensive options out there to cover 3rd gen swappers needs. stick with that 18-22" range for a truer mid-length header, or go for a long tube setup, brp sells coated mids for our swaps for just over $500 shipped. keep that in mind.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Please list the options available here. I'm sure there are guys that arent aware of the headers available out there for these cars. I know I'm not since I havent looked into doing LSX swap stuff. Just was curious to make my own headers on the side to fill a rare market but if there are alot of other options out there relatively inexpensive (same price or less as regular thirdgen longtubes) then no point in competing with that.

STREETDEMON

4th gen shorty headers....done. there are quite a few guys running 4th gen shorties. they fit just like the manifolds, but don't really flow much more than the factory manifolds.

hawks stainless long tubes, brp(hedman husler) mid's and longtubes, 4th gen shorties, 4th gen stock manifolds, or build/modify your own. those are the current options i am aware of.

i have the husler mid's and so far absolutely love them.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Oh ok, wasnt aware of 4th gen shorties fitting that well on our cars. thats good to know.

Only thing about the BRP mids that I'd change is the collector, and I'd design to a 1 7/8" or 2" primary size.

The long tubes look funny and I've seen these before. The 4 primaries come down side by side so that its 4 pipes wide into a wide collector. I heard that doesnt fit on these cars, no room to access the starter. You have to stack the primaries like a normal header, 2x2 square.

Prices are good tho, thats reasonable for a swap header in that size. Not sure of the quality of the coating tho. Some places have cheap coatings that wear off/out unlike some of the jet hot coated stuff I've owned in the past. Jet hot may dull, but stays on for the most part.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Okay, this has taken forever, but I finally got my Hawks headers out this weekend and off to be coated. The passenger side pulled out from the top, so I started with it (and, I thought it looked closer than the driver side). It slid down and looked like it would go in, then the front outside tube ran into the A-arm mount - hard. The flange was still several inches away from the ports. No way/no how you could modify them to fit.

I didn't bother with the driver side. Didn't look promising, and I had to take that one out from the bottom (after removing the cooler adapter and oil filter - have to remove both...) and wiggle it just right to do it. With that one tube sticking forward, it simply wouldn't do that.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Yes, I know this is old but I'm coming into this late. I like the idea of the mid-length headers, but with a 700R4, I don't see how I can get around the trans/cross member area. I will run into the same issues I would trying to run long tubes. Loss of ground clearance. I don't see any of the aftermarket pieces that are even built for a 700R4.