Ok... Everyone has read numerous threads about the Hawks ORY. It doesnt fit, yadda yadda yadda. But I personally have never seen any pictures of how it doesnt fit...or what people did to modify it to work. So hopefully this helps some of you out. I havent finished my y-pipe yet. But I hope to soon...because I wanna drive my car and this is holding me up big time.

First chapter... The "Y" itself. Im not sure if they all looked like mine...but I thought it was pretty cruddy. There was a huge restriction where the two header pipes met at the 3" part. See the pic below...



Am I wrong or is that restrictive and not good for exhaust flow at all..?

Here are the steps I took to get rid of that.













Much better now.... Its nice and smooth on the way out now.



This is looking down the passenger side tube.

 

This is the part that really ticked me off... The rest of the y-pipe. It hit everything under the car. I was NOT happy about cutting my nice new spohn cross member BUT..I figured if thats what had to be done...then fine. No big deal. After I cut and cut and cut... That darn thing still wouldnt fit. I managed to actually get all the pipes together...and it hit the passenger side "chassis rail", the driverside crossmember bolts and "chassis rail", and the part where it came together was hard into the torque arm. I couldnt slide the pipes onto the headers all the way because of how everything was bound up. AND....if I could get it to clear that way, it would have scraped on every little bump. Hung down lower than anything else on the car. Here are some pics...

Drivers side...hitting everything.



Passenger side...hitting the frame.



Hitting the torque arm.





Now...I should mention that full weight is on the car, and its at ride height. Even if it wasnt....it should still fit because if it didnt, when you lifted the car on a lift the suspension droop would rip the exhaust apart.

My plan is to cut it, rotate, twist, hammer, bend, tweak, weld it all back together. I dont want to have 5 clamps under there for just the y-pipe. So Im going to get it to where its good...and weld the whole thing together. So all you have to do is slip it on the headers. This thread is open to suggestions of course. I would really like to see pictures if you do have solutions.

This is in now way intended to bash Hawks. I do believe some things could be done about this...especially for the price. I mean...all in and all its a nice piece. But it needs to fit. I couldnt imagine if I got the one with cats... Ok...any suggestions? Im probably going to start cutting either today or tomorrow. Of course Ill snap pics along the way.

Justin

 

If I had paid that much for the Y and it didn't fit, I would be really pissed....at least your taking it well.

I ended up just getting the headers because I had heard some horror stories, and didn't feel they were worth it. I had a local exhaust shop make me a custom 2.5 to 3 inch Y-pipe, 3 inch intermediate pipe with cats and dynomax muffler for 1100, and it looks sweet

 

Steve,
Yeah...Im taking it well because I know Hawks is a great company. And I know that the problem lies with stainless works most likely. I dont expect Bruce to be able to open and mock up every ORY that gets sold. Not even sure he actually sees the box... Im also taking it well because if I go to stainless work about the issue Ill probably just get frustrated.

Im sure if Bruce was making them in house...he wouldnt be sending them out with a restriction like that...or with a bad fitment issue...or with a heavy film of crud inside all of the pipes. I have emailed Bruce with the pictures that I have above. Not to complain or to come down on him...more of an informational email. Im sure he gets quite a few angry customer emails...so this one was to just show the problem i was having.

I already started to tweak the y-pipe. I think its coming out pretty good actually. If I finish it tonight Ill post up some more pictures.

Justin

 

WOW!

That is ABSURDLY shoddy workmanship I can't believe they all come like that. The dude who made that up was probably on his last day. Thats WAY restrictive man. I was very impressed with the overall quality of the Hawks headers ( I made my own y pipe ) but man I'm sorry for your luck you got screwed on that y-pipe deal. At least you fixed it and as much of a pain in the ars that probably was its a lot less headaches to take that route than the scream and yell send back etc etc route IMO at least.

Whats that saying? If you want something done right do it yourself.

I wasn't happy with the overall design of that y which is the reason I never bought it. I made up my own out of manderel bent 90's and some straight. Stainless of course. Pics here for anyone interested it wasn't very difficult to fab up.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...our-ls1-y.html

 

87roc.... Thanks for the response. I saw your y-pipe in that thread awhile back. Looks good! I wish I could do a drew's style crossmember...but Im using the spohn crossmember with torque arm. So Im kind of stuck there because of the torque arm mount.

All in all...I was happy with the headers. I was alittle ticked about the driver side O2 sensor location...but overall they were nice. I was extremely please to have clearance over by the steering shaft. Tons of room.

Yeah...modifying it just seemed easier than sending back etc etc... I figured its good enough for now...and if I decide to tackle making one from scratch...I can always do it. Simple enough to take this one apart.

As for my progress... I think I finished the y-pipe last night. Its officially bolted on and seems to be in a decent position. Its now in two pieces instead of 4. But...it might be all one piece by the end of today. I haev to see if pulling it on and off is possible with all one piece.

Ill post some pics up...but unfortunetly, I all but destroyed my old digital camera...so I think I lost some of the in progress pics. Its fully welded...I just hvae to decide on if I want to leave it 2 piece or weld it completely together. Im thinking I might leave it for alittle adjustability.

I started it with the y-pipe installed...and even after bolting it up quickly in the dark there were many leaks. in fact...the only one I saw was at the only non-welded joint. And i think I just need to tighten the clamp...or get a better one. It sounds soooooo much better than the open headers in my opinion. Smoother, more pronounced idle, seems to rev nicer. I might start to fit the rest of the magnaflow up tonight too. Try to wrap up under the car so I can get her on the ground!

Justin

 

those y pipes are a joke.
1st time ive seen those pics.
cant believe they send it out like that??!!??

 

Yeah I was fairly disappointed in the quality and the design. Im super annoyed at how much I had to chop up my crossmember. Thats the big beef I have. And the extra dough I paid for the pipe which I had to completely redo...

ANYWAY...on to my fix. I lost some pictures due to the un-timely death of my camera. So I took some after pics and I even showed the pieces that I took out and where I took them out. Im happy with the fit now. You can almost slide it on and off as one piece...which is nice. But I left it in two pieces in case I need to twist or tweak it once the cat back is on. If you have any questions...feel free to ask. The pics should explain themselves.



















You can see from the pics thats looking down the tunnel...that the 3" part of the y pipe is in a good spot...Ive since moved it over about an inch so that it lines up with the cat back. All I did was cut about 3/4" out of the spot were its not welded. Make sense?? It fits great now.

OH... and Im in love with the clamps Im using. They are from the same company that makes the clamps that come with the kit...but they are the Easy Seal version. They are wider, have two bolts, and seal/hold like ****!!
The best part...when you take them off the pipes slide back apart easily! I hate u-bolts, and Ill be using these band clamps throughout the exhaust system. Even on the magnaflow...wehre I think they should have used the band clamps instead of u-bolts. Such a nice exhaust...such crappy clamps.


Justin

 

Speaking of the cat back...

here is a pic of it just for fun. Also an overall view of the y-pipe after I was done with it.

Justin

 

Nice work man! What brand are dem dare exhaust band clamp thingamajigs? I have some similar but not as wide and really dont want to crush the pipe especially around the header. Thx

 

exhaust band clamps. you can get them through jegs, or at your NAPA store.

 

I got mine from Napa. They had both 2.5" and 3" in stock...something like $8 a piece...but worth it. The brand name is Torca I believe. And the "model" name of the ones I got are the "easy seal" clamps. The ones that come with the Hawks y-pipe are called "accu-seal"...I think. They are the thinner ones with only one bolt.

One thing Im not sure of though... Are these clamps supposed to go half on one side of the joint, half on the other? Or are they supposed to go just on the expanded side. They seem to work decent either way...

Justin

 

Hmmm the ones I bought have two bolts but only go on one side. The band is about an inch wide or so but i think they might crush the pipe. Its the width of those ones you used that caught my eye. No idea the "correct" application for those as per one side or both but thanks for the heads up I'm gonna get some of them too.

 

always done them half/half.
work good for butting pipes too if you cant expand it.

 

Cool thanks for the info. I was trying to clamp my magnaflow muffler to the over the axle pipe and that sucker just didnt seem like it wanted to hold. But they seemed to work everywhere else. I have a couple extra clamps so I might try a new one...

Justin

 

wow that was fing gross. good job on the clean up!

 

Yeah it was a fiasco thats for sure. Figured maybe you all would like some finished exhaust pics. Finally got the magnaflow installed. Im debating on if I want to keep using those band clamps everwhere. They are allowing a few small leaks here and again. Those things have to be torqued to like 50-60 ftlbs!!! Thats hard to get to when you are crammed under the car laying on your back. But they still leak here and there. Probably where the pipes are 100% round. Oh well... Enjoy the pics. I think the tail pipes look hot!!!











The tips still need alittle bit of tweaking. They were sort of hard to get lined up. Im going to see about gettni a previous thread of mine about magnaflow deleted and starting a new one with pics of how I did it. There seems to be a lack of good pictures or good methods of actually getting it installed. Also...the kit that should work the best is the 98-02 kit. But thats a different story...

Justin

 

Yeah looks sweet. Got a sound clip or vid?

 

Everyone needs to start running the "double hump" crossmember from "Drew" or "Drews" on here... do a search for it or search my username. I used that along with a custom ORY on my old setup... worked great and more ground clearance than stock. I've still got the ORY if anyone wants it.

 

None yet. Ive been too busy trying to get her done to take any more vids. But as soon as its on the ground and moving, Ill be sure to post up a few vids of the exhaust and what not. Sounds great. Alittle quiet at idle...but thats a good thing. Still sounds mean. But when you rev it... wow. Sounds like the gates of hell just opened up. Sounds absolutly rediculous while sitting in the car.

Justin

 

Cool beans! I'm running my existing flowmaster ( not the gacky crossflow style ) but if it doesn't sound killer out it goes for something else so I am very curious to hear yours. Please do post up vids/sound bits when you can.

All this activity from you gus lately is gettin me pumped again

 

GTA91: I would LOVE to use drews crossmember. however...I have the spohn torque arm with the mount on the crossmember. I couldnt see any way of making the humps. I was going to convert the spohn piece into a drews...but there just doesnt seem to be much room for playing there. The passenger side would work...but the TA mount on the drivers side would stop progress. Ill see how this works for now. After fiddling with the hawks y-pipe...I think it will actually flow half decent and will work for now. I think what needs to happen is a fun weekend meeting with Bruce (hawks) and Steve (spohn) and try to come up with a solution. Cutting the crossmember like I had to was annoying enough... There has GOT to be a way! haha. Spohn makes awsome stuff as far as Im concerned. And Hawks does awsome work. There should be a solution to make all the parts work together.

Anyway... 87roc_t56... Stay tuned for even more activity from me... Hopefully by thursday ill be .

Ill try to get some vids of it... like a walk around or something. Kind of showing all the work all the while hearing the car run. Then maybe some action shots or in car stuff. I gotta see how the next few days turn out. The wiring is done...however none of it is "packaged" inside. I have to hide it and make final connections etc etc..

Justin

 

I can see the pics now... I just can't stand the site of those y-pipes... sorry guys, no offense to you at all. The double hump x-member makes it soooo easy. I'm still using a stock tranny mount torque arm so I know they could fab something up to work. I'm going to go to a Chris Alston tq arm that mounts to the tranny tunnel... similar to the Jeg's tq arm but alot stronger. That way it will clear my true duals and still work with my x-member.


*That black TA with the 4th gen WS6 wheels looks nice!!

 

youre gonna need to get that t/arm off the tailshaft, or you gonna break it with your launches at the track with that stroker.
be careful.

 

That's why I'm going to a Chris Alston tunnel mount

 

Just in case anyone wanted to see how it came out, I finally got the camera out of my car.

Ground clearance (or lack there of)

Picture from the back...I'm going to take it back and make him put turn downs on it like I asked in the first place.

Here you can see the header wrap, I did this because this header is too damn close to the frame rail which is where the brake and fuel lines run. You can see the fuel line has been moved down to get it a little farther away.

Here is where the two 2.5" pipes come together into a 3" pipe then to a single high flow 3" cat.

Another shot from the back

 

Steven,
Looks good man. I just got my car on the ground last night and drove her for the first time!!! I noticed that my y-pipe is really close to the ground as well. somewhere around 3"... I figure it will be ok for now.

I do have a question for ya. Where did you get your header wrap from? And how good does it work? Can you still put a hand on that part of the header after its been running for awhile? I have clearance over on that side...but not a whole lot. I put a heat sleeve around the clutch line, and made a heat sheild/retainer out of 308 stainless. Made it out of that because of its heat properties. It kind of holds the clutch line from popping out of place and laying against the headers. But Im still nervous. It does run close to the brake lines and fuel lines for a little ways. So I think Im going to do this.

I was just curious how good the wrap works. Im assuming someone custom made that y-pipe for ya?? its pretty close to the hawks/sw design it seems. Do you have good clearence around all the underside of the body? Pipes dont hit? I might re-work the passenger side int he near future. i think there is a lot more room there...just have to make the cuts in th right spot. Ill take some pics of it on the ground soon. after I clean her up a bit.

Justin

 

OMG!!
stevenK: i hope your y pipe isnt welded to the headers.
sure does look like it in the pics.
PITA.

 

You can get header wrap at almost any parts store, I got mine from Advanced Auto. Don't forget to get the metal straps, as zipties could melt at some point.

As for how hot they are, I know its definitly not the 200+ degrees it would be without the wrap, but im not about to touch it. Next time I work on it, I'll grab my temp gun and see what it registers, but my guess is, it holds in 90% of the heat. And yes, it was custom made here locally, and it seems to have clearance everywhere. I drove it a short distance a couple days ago, and I did not hear any bumping, rubbing, or vibrating....

stage, you know, I never even thought to look at that...I can't really tell from these pics, so I'll have to go look at it. If he did weld the Y directly to the headers, its going back, and he is going to fix that for free, because that is just plain retarded! Thinking about it...if its all welded, then there is no way for me to even lower my transmission, change the starter, etc without cutting the exhaust and thats just not acceptable for a $1000+ custom exhaust.

 

is the 1000 including the price of the headers and the muffler?

 

Hawks headers alone are $800 so probably not.

 

oh yes. my wallet knows.
i was just being nice.
i hope he didnt pay 1000+ for a y pipe and a catback.

 

Ypipe, cat, muffler, installation.

 

wht a cluster ****... im glad im just using a stock manifold setup til i figure out my future plans..

 

Eh...Ive heard from a couple people that they didnt have the same problems I did. Atleast not to the extent that I did. I still have some room to tuck the pipe up on the passenger side...but I officially went over some speed bumps and didnt scrape. Im sure it was CLOSE...haha. But it didnt scrape.

I think the bottom line is... If you want long tubes...Hawks all the way. Those things are dead sexy, and fit decent. Good enough for me anyway. If you want a y-pipe...either build on yourself, or have a shop do it for ya. Unless hawks/stainless works gets together and refines the current design. Maybe even bring steve spohn in on it to try to eliminate hacking on a new crossmember.

Either way...no regrets from me. I mean...yeah I could have built my own y-pipe from scratch, but it would have come out even worse probably. haha. Not to mention it would have taken twice as long. I can drive my car, it sounds good, it feels good....Ide say the pipes did their jobs for now. Later on, if I come up wtih a better design, maybe Ill make a new one. For now... its time to !!!!!


Justin

 

Absolutely the headers are cherry. Mine fit perfectly and the workmanship is top shelf.

 

dont know if this has been mentioned, but anybody running a TH350, TH400 or a powerglide will have to modify the bellhousing for the headers to fit.
i took about a 1/2 off or more from some sports for the header to clear.
cosmetic, not gonna crack the case or anything, but its a pita to get in there and cut.
glad i got an air saw.

 

The Hawks/SW LT headers are definitely AWESOME!!! I wish they'd come out with some 1-7/8" ones with 3" or 3.5" collectors

 

YES YES YES.
im thinking about making a set(helping) this winter. just finished up my friends shop and he is going to start doing chassis work.
cant be too hard to make a set, ive helped on 2 sets of shorties for turbo set ups. long tubes is a whole different story thoough!!!

i ran z06 manifolds for a while, and picked up 2 tenths and 2mph 1/8 mile with them.
with a stouter setup, i know guys pick up that much from going to the 1 7/8 headers. id be a nice upgrade for the nitrous side of things as well.

 

Yeah the donar car was set up with 1-7/8" primary tubes. I was alittle worried about stepping down to the 1-3/4"...but they are still ok for my application. And I probably picked up some low end torque. For all out drag racing where you will be at high RPMs a lot, the bigger headers help. For me...mostly street driving... the smaller headers work fine.

However...Ide like to see the bigger tubes anyway. Also, I think some 3" collectors should be standard on these headers. I know why they are 2.5"...because its hard to get the 3" y-pipe to fit. When I decide to re-make my y-pipe eventually, Im going to just cut off the ends of the hawks headers, and weld a 3" end onto it. Ide like my exhaust to be totally 3"... but for now it seems to be flowing quite nicely.

Im willing to be that before too long more companies will be coming out with 3rd gen swap headers. The prices will drop a bit due to competition, and there will be more options. This swap is becoming a pretty popular swap now that LS1 motors are a dime a dozen.

Justin

 

ok, i didnt want to start a new thread on a similar subject, so here goes....

i just got a set of the hawks/sw longtube header for a gen 1 based car.
the headers look awsome i agree, the y looks pretty good too, I guess they must have seen your post and fired the guy who built that y cause mine is Bdas.....
Ive got the spohn x-member w/ torque arm also, they told me i would have to cut the torque arm to make it fit. the headers also fit fit pretty snug up against the frame rail, but i think that wrap would help that problem,

Anyone have this setup out there that could ofer some insight????
again this is not an LS/LT build, its a small block stroker genI. with a spohn x-member /torque arm

thanks

 

Yup... that whole "cut the brand new spohn crossmember" thing ticked me off the most. Two of the major manufacturers of swap parts should combine some efforts and make parts that work well together. I mean... Hawks has the market cornered right now on swap headers. And spohn is a household name in suspension parts. Why not make something better between the two of them?

The headers always seem to hug the "frame rails". Shouldnt be a big deal. I haven my fuel and brake lines running kinda close to them, and I havent had a problem yet. Even on the 9 hour drive down and back to the outer banks last week.

Ive ditched almost everything I started out with. Except for the headers. I built a custom crossmember and ditched the spohn. I built a custom y-pipe and threw away the hawks piece....what was left of it. Darn thing hit on every bump.

Here are some before/after shots of what I started with vs. what I have now.

before...

after...


before...

after...


ground clearance before...

ground clearance after...


No pics of my poor chopped up spohn xmember...but this is what replaced it.


The reason Im posting this is just to show you how far I had to go to be happy. I wasted so much time mounting and pulling the xmember to cut it, and then pulling the y-pipe and cutting it and re-welding it...etc etc. I could have had the swap done more than a week sooner if I didnt have to do all that. I wish I would have just not bought the hawks y-pipe and done everything custom from the beginning. But...thats in the past so... I just hope the pieces they are putting out now are much better than what I had to work with.

J.

 

Do any of you guys have the dimensions for your custom crossmember because Drews isnt around anymore and was just wondering..

 

Justin, first off...

Second, you're being a HELL of a lot nicer than I would be in that situation - I suspect I'd have opened the box, seen the condition of the Y-pipe, then IMMEDIATELY shipped it back (with delivery confirmation, of course!), preceded by a phone call that would've scorched all of the hair off of one side of the receiver's head...

Next time you're feeling ambitious, I think it'd be EXTREMELY cool if you could get measurements for the x-member you fabbed up, & post 'em up here - that way, those of us who have a welder & the inclination to "roll yer own" can do so. I also suspect that it might be an incentive for vendors to make a better product, one that takes into account the possibility that their customers just might have other aftermarket parts on their cars... (Well, if we're really lucky...)

StevenK - I suspect that there's a number of us who've had to use that header wrap to cushion the exhaust like that. In my case, I have the 1-3/4" headers from SLP, & the huge Y-pipe that comes with the kit rattled like hell against my SFCs. I was lucky enough to have a buddy with a WRX who already had some wrap, as well as some high-temp rubber hose that I slit down one side & clamped on the outside of the pipe. The rattle's gone now, we'll see how long it lasts...

 

Well I'm in the process of my LS1 3rd gen swap and bought the Hawks headers and y-pipe, and I'll tell ya what, I'm not to happy with this, the headers look great but that y-pipe....it seems like someone isn't doing the work right here....although mine aren't as bad as ghettocruiser's, but still for the $$$ being put out on these, I think it should be better.

 

Dude those pieces look all too familiar. Im not air flow expert, but that cant be good. Yours isnt as bad as mine, but how hard would it be to clean that up...or atleast run a darn rag through the pipes to clean all the cutting coolant and filings. Post up what kind of luck you have fitting them together. You can see what mine looked like after i cut it all up and welded it back together. By the way...the stainless isnt the most fun to weld. Its a royal pain in the butt without a TIG. You can also scroll up and see my interference areas.

Now...like Ive been saying, Im not bashing Hawks or anyone that works there. But I was told, when I ordered the exhaust, that I might have to put straps on certain parts and pull them, then clamp them down. Sorry...that doesnt really go well with me. Not for the money it cost for that y-pipe.

V8Rumble: Thanks for the props. Yeah...I was pretty cool calm and collected about the situation. I made one attempt to get help, and hit a dead end. So instead of wasting time sending parts back and going through that frustration, I decided to just work with what I had. Just wanted to drive her...ya know? Its definetly something a decent welder and someone with some patience can duplicate.

As for taking measurements...thats going to be REALLY difficult. The two mounting sides are at angles...in two different planes. Which makes picking a reference point pretty difficult. All of my fabrication was done by cutting, fitting, trial/error, and guesswork. haha. I made the side pieces, bolt them in (using all three holes), then I made the piece to bolt to the trans. Then filled in the blanks...which was the hard part. Then I added the torque arm mount. I got those pieces from Steve Spohn...which was pretty stand up of him seeing as how buying those pieces meant I was ditching HIS crossmember. Since I work with CAD all day for work, I could pretty easily make some plans up. Only problem I would have to remove it, bolt it down and take measurements. Draw it up and dimension it in CAD. Ill give it some thought though and definetly do it if I ever pull the xmember.

Sickcuban: Why do you say drews isnt around anymore??? I just talked to him and purchased from him not too long ago. Did you try PMing him? Also...its vacation season. So if he didnt get back to ya, that could be why. Last I heard he was still making the xmembers. He has a jig so I think he makes them in batches.

Oh...and you guys that are talking about header clearance. Not to rub it in...but here is my clearance on my headers.





The only place that I was REALLY not happy with the headers...was the O2 bungs. Why in the world they welded it in this position, with all that space to the inside, is beyond me. I had to beat my darn floor pan in. Another thing I dont think I should have had to do for the price.



Ok...done rambling/post whoring.

 

Nice work on that y-pipe and x-member! Right now I'm running a "Drews" x-member with some custom true duals I made. I really want a set of 1-7/8" &3.5" headers... BRUCE YOU READING THIS????

 

Yeah I took off a set of Grott 1-7/8" primary headers that were on the 4th gen. I wanted to put the same size on...but they werent offered. And as everyone knows, the 4th gen headers are WAYYY off from what the 3rd gen needs. So I couldnt use them.

Maybe one day a set will be available... My motor was built to rev...so putting the smaller primaries on probably picked me up alittle more low end torque. But since thats not really where my cam makes power, it would have been better to put on the bigger primaries. Seems to be doing ok though... Now if I can just get it tuned (PCM issues), we'll find out how its doing.

J.

EDIT: Haha..went back and actually read some of my posts. Seems I said the same thing on 10/10/06...sorry for the repeat! haha.

 

hey ghettocruiser, thanks for all the info and pics, definetely not what i wanted to see, that ground clrearance is pretty bad, im gonna see what i can do w/ mine, i dont have any welding equipmnet to do it myself, and i really dont wanna take it to a "CHOP" around here after the work i got w/ my prevous exhaust.

Diabloformula, when did u buy urs, like i said i just got mine last week, all the cuts and welds look very clean, nothing like what you guys got, maybe cause urs was for an LS1?

 

What happened to Drews? I hope he didnt get turfed for non sponsor issues this is a very small part of the market here. So small none of the other paying sponsors seem to want to bother making a decent cross member for us. Anyways another trumpet tooting for his cross member see sig pic for clearance or click on fquick for larger pic.

Made a HUGE difference in my car once I got it tuned especially in regards to overall drive ability.