I'm an L98 owner wondering if the swap to a newer 350 is worth it? I'd been told replacing with an L98 to the same can be a good call, but also budget concerns abound either way.
I picked up the latest Chevy High Performance magazine to read more on the LS1 and LS7 engines that GM is offering as crates. Though said to be spendy, what is the price for the LS7 and will it swap to an 89 Firebird? I would imagine some electronic changes

That may not fit anyone's bill who has a budget at this point in time, though

Just curious. Keeping articles like these for future reference when the technology drops in price, it may be a great way to upgrade an old powertrain

Bill

 

Since you only asked two questions really, the LS7 will go for near $13k ($12,595 cheapest I've seen) new and yes, you can swap it into a 3rdgen. It will not be a direct bolt-in but can be done with some custom fabrication. You will still have to get the engine harness, computer, sensors, etc. and splice it into your factory harness or have a complete harness custom made.

 

For the amount of money you're going to spend (or consider spending) on an LS-7, you can spend a little less on a Motown 454 small block, new Mini-Ram & Throttle Body, and adapt it to you're stock ECM, wiring, tranny and accessories (you'll need to burn a new chip, of course)....

With that, you get a 2 year warranty, and 600+ horsepower... all for a little less than GM's entire crate alone.

 

Is there really that much advantage going with the Motown engine? The 454 crate engine is somewhere around $11, 000 and a Mini-Ram/Super Ram/Stealth Ram setup will cost you another 1-2 thousand...that's getting very near the same cost of the LS7. The extras to make the Gen IV engine work will add up to a bit more...but for that amount of money, the newer engine will get far better fuel economy and be much easier to live with than a solid lifter, gas-guzzling Gen I engine. This is the decision I'm stuck with right now, as I'm completely rebuilding my Iroc. Initially I thought I would just go with a Motown engine and convert it to fuel injection, but now this LS7 is seriously twisting my arm. I know for the money I could probably build something cheaper with an engine I found at the right place at the right time for the right price...but, having to do everything else on the car as well, I'd like to just be able to order something brand new and ready to go. In either case, I have to replace the entire 200 000km drivetrain anyways, so being able to use the existing transmission is worthless to me. Do any of the wise have any words to sway my decision?

 

Well, in you're case.... you live in Ontario, so EPA is not a concern (go with the Stealth-Ram). If funds are a problem (compared to the LS7 swap), you can always opt for World's 427 Motown crate. 530HP/515TQ, 24,000 mile warranty ($9,295.00).

As for intake's, the Stealth-Ram will cost you much less than what you quoted, because you'll be using you're stock harness and computer ($500.00 with the AFPR and rails)....

You also have to think long term here. If something breaks (example; clutch, bown tranny, etc...), or if you damage an engine internal (example; spun cam, spun bearing, etc..) it'll be a lot less costly to replace with the Motown Engine once both warranties are up....

 

Why does it have to be an LS7???? You can take an LS1, add decent set of heads (AFR, Patriot, etc..) throw in a healthy cam (.230+ duration @ .050, .580+ lift) and a good flowing intake and have it tuned, you'll be putting down similar power. Go to some of the LS1 sites and research what they are doing. There is an LS1 guy in the 10's with cam and tuning alone!

 

Either u have a decent job and money is not a problem( if this is the case ill give you my address and yuo can wire me some money ) or you are a very good dreamer... but the simple fact is that a sbc 427 is a great feat in these cars let alone a crate LS-7 which is just in the corvettes yet....

 

It absolutely doesn't have to be an LS7 . Likewise, why does it have to be an LS1? It's more that I'm debating whether to go with the newer technology or not. However, I'm pretty set on the idea of a large displacement smallblock because it's cool :P. I've seen some pretty slick stroker kits for LS series truck blocks, resleeved 427 c.i. LS1s and I could also try and find a good 400 block to build from. But seriously, it's just easier to order a complete crate motor and only have to worry about cosmetics (and in the end, I still think it's cheaper). Plus, I like the idea of getting something new...no machining costs, no previous wear and tear, etc. To buy a new LS1, it will cost me 6 grand US and quite a bit of shipping and tax to get to Canada, then a good set of heads for it (for example the AFR LS1 heads) with set me back quite a bit further...it just goes on...I'm still not convinced I'd save that much money in the end. Also, what about durability? The LS7 (or the Motown engines, etc) are designed around running 500 HP day in day out. How much mileage do the guys running maxed out LS1s get out of them reliably? Are the internals tough enough to take the abuse? (and I'm seriously asking this, I've not much experience with the LSx engines thus far...I'll do my research for certain). Replacing the internals of the LS1 to deal with more power will make it even more expensive. I figure no matter what I do, it's going to cost me a lot to get this car where I want it. I want what will be the best value to me. Therein lies some heavy contemplation. Thanks for the suggestions, it's always nice to get different perspectives.

At any rate, don't let me turn this into another LS7 bashing match...in all honesty, we'll never know if it's worth the while until someone slaps one into a thirdgen. If I do it, I'll be sure to let ya'll know what I think. Bill Speed's original post was contemplating whether a Gen III/IV engine swap is too expensive for what it's worth. Perhaps people who have experience with this could post their opinion, what it cost them and how much power they're making to give him something to think about. Either that or we could all just do a search

 

how old are you guys that are seriously considering these crate motors.... I ask because when i first got my car i planned on buying a crate motor for the easy of drop in( for the most part) and play. but then i realized that half the fun was building the motor and that for the same price as a crate motor i could have a motor I built that had more power

 

Its all about LS1's or LS7's nothing bets and entire aluminum engine that weighs less than and empty sbc iron block. Plus the stock cylinder heads are better than most aftermarket race heads.

 

I'd just like to hear from someone who has built a dyno-proven 500+ hosepower 400+ cubic inch small block chevy engine that is fuel injected, has a fully forged (or better yet, titanium!...I know, that's a little unnecessary) bottom end and was made from all new parts (block included). By the time you inlcude every little stud and fuel line fitting...you're spending a heavy amount of time and money. I'd love to build an engine, and that's why I'm rebuilding the tired 305 for another project eventually, but I think I can find something I like that requires minimal modification through what's available in a crate motor, and save time and money (for EVERYTHING else on that car...we all know you can't just drop a 500hp motor into a third gen and have it perform). To each their own.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with age. I too once considered crate engines. They are proven performers, most coming with dyno sheet. When you build your own, your not quite sure what you get until you yourself put it on the dyno. Just because a manufacturer claims a "heads and cam" package makes 400 HP on a 350 doesn't mean your going to get 400 HP. If you buy a crate motor with a dyno sheet that shows 400 HP, as long as they didn't "rig" the sheet, your going to get 400 HP.

Not to mention, alot of these DIY'ers building these engines don't have unlimited funds. So when they pre-assemble the engine and find out they have insuficient Piston to Valve clearance, not to many of them want to shell out for a different set of pistons or camshaft to make it work. When you buy a crate motor, your paying for them to make all the needed measurements and adjust accordingly.

Many of the crate engine manufacturers also offer a warranty of some sort. So if you toss a rod, granted, they won't come tow you home and put an engine in for you, but they "should" replace it. If your building your own, you'll have to start over, on your dime.

I'm not bashing either side, I've built most of my own, just trying to give the pro's and con's of both sides.

 

i wasnt getting at the age vs crate motor question... i was getting at alot of younger guys( im 18 remember so i know how it feels) are asking about making these insane motors in their cars, ie: ls7, or one guy who was asking about a TT ls1.

 

I still think that age is irrelevant. Determination is another thing entirely. Many on this board are quick to throw up the caution flag on people who mention anything remotely expensive. On a technical forum, I think such comments are out of place. We all know that this isn't a cheap hobby, but still, many find it worth the expense. I'd bet there are many guys out there who have far more money into their garage than all their possessions combined. Also, for the dreamers out there, you don't know anything until you ask about it. knowledge is never a bad thing, whether you can afford to use it or not.

 

oh i kno that.... its just that i find that younger guys have more extravegant ideas for their ride, and more power to em....

i know that all too well be cause i have heads worth more than my car sitting in my living room, my engine is gunna be worth 4 times what a paid for my car, my stereo in my car is worth a lil more than the car....
to me money isnt an object- just an obstacle. i dont care how long it takes me to save for something that i want but there are some ideas that just arent practicle...

for example the TT ls1 guy was asking about making a daily driver Twin turbo ls1