TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Hey, I'm in the middle of doing my interior swap and the next step is to put in my power windows so I can use my new door panels. I know theres a post or two on here about this already, but I actually want to talk to someone thats done it... find out all the exact parts to use and how long it takes. Let me know if you guys can help me.

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

Its not super hard, just a lot of messing around and patience to get it to get the regulator to lineup. You need power window regulators and motors to replace your manual regulator. You have to drill out the four rivets that hold in the regulator to get it out. You need a 1/4'' rivet gun and 1/4'' window regulator (peel) rivets. A lot of people say its hard to find that stuff, but I found it all at Car Quest.

Basically just make sure everything lines up as you are putting the window regulator rivets in.

Here is the link that I followed to do mine: http://www.p71interceptor.com/thirdgen/powerwindows/

Basically, you just have to do it and improvise, each install will be different and you just have to play with the regulators to get them in.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for your help. Just a few more questions:

did you buy the motors and regulators new or used them from a donor car? Also, how did you wire yours? did you use a donor car and use a power window harness? or did you just wire it yourself?

Thanks again for the help, i want to do this soon so I can finish my interior before spring hits!

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

I purchased my window regulators complete with motors off of ebay for $40 (I believe from an 89 camaro). I bench tested the motors before putting them in to be sure they worked and they worked fine. New motors are good to get so you don't have to worry about the used motors dying in the near future, but they are expensive (around $50-$100 each).

I made my own wiring harness for the windows. You need the connectors for the window switches (found here: http://www.moderndaymuscle.com/inc/sdetail/1327 or at your local junk yard) and the connectors that plug into the window motor, mine came with the regulators but you can get them at the junk yard.

Also, keep in mind that you will definitely need someone to help you do this. One person has to hold up the window while the other gets the regulators out/in. While you have the regulator out, pull the tracks out and put some white lithium grease on them so your windows will move smoothly.

Hope this helps

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

yeah, it definatly does. I'm worried about doing this for some reason, i dont know why. I've pretty much redone my entire car, and the power window conversion i'm not looking forward to. haha. thanks for the help, i'm sure i'll have more questions for you as i do it. (in a few weeks)

84redta

iTrader: (34)

just to let you know...it is possible to do it alone...i did it while on the phone with my girl friend, i just put the window all the way down and slid out the regulator like that. It's actually suggested that way so that it can be a one person job and so that the window doesn't slip out of someone's hands and crash down on the other person or worse yet shatter into anyone's face. Just my two cents but i did do it all myself, from wiring with just the plugs as mentioned above, and swapping the regulators out myself, took me about an hour on one door and about a half an hour once i figured out what was an easy way to get them in and out. Good luck, and you will be satisfied with your decision I'm actually about to do it for a second time in just a couple months as i'm swapping doors on my project car. Good luck!

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

good to know, thanks! yeah. i'm glad I'm doing it, just never tackled anything like this. I mean, i did a complete motor swap on the car, i'm sure I can handle it, but it just seems like such a tight spot that needs such percision so you dont break the window. it'll be nice tho. i wouldn't mind leaving manual windows if i could actually reach the pass. side window from the drivers seat without leaning all the way across the car! haha.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

that glass is a bit more tough than you give it credit for, i've had a bit of pressure on it and it didn't break. Don't push it obvioulsy, but don't entirely worry about it. Yes...it will be easier if you have a second person lift up the glass to get the regulator out so that it doesn't rub up against the glass, but it can be done w/out. I did it and there are no signs of it on my glass so it is alright. You will need power to the car at one point...you will only be able to get two rivits in at a time, if you number them clockwise from top left...2 and 4 will go in first IIRC, and then you will need to turn on the car and power the windows up, i would suggest helping the glass up as to not allow the regulator to rip the sheet metal it's rivited to, and then once up you will be able to do 1 and 3. It's kiddy corner riviting, and i'm not sure if i reversed the order, but you will realize as you go along what i'm talking about. As far as alignemnt, i would suggest using two other rivits to align it as you get the first two in, this helped me out greatly, and as far as using peal rivits...i know thats what is suggested, and despite how easy it is said to be to find, i believe it's case sensitive, i spent 2 hours driving around to 14 different auto parts stores by me, and noone had them. Car quest, advance auto parts, napa, pontiac, chevrolet, and then a hand full of no name one, and then to call another 6 pontiac and chevy dealers in a 50 mile radius to find ones an hour away and they didn't have peal...they had these other rivits that they use for their regulators/actuators. These rivits are perfectly fine. They mushroom like regular rivits, but they are 1/4" by i'd say 1/2". People will all tell you to get peal rivits, i got referenced by a pontiac/chevy dealer to use these as they do, and they do work perfectly fine in my power lock/power window conversions.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Heres another question about this... how did you guys locate the placement of the switches... i want to get them as close to factory as possible...

also, how did you run the wires from the door to the body? pics by any chance?

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

TTT

Wiring pics anyone?!

89junkyardgta

Hi,

I'm surprised you couldn't find a wiring setup on eBay. Usually power locks and windows are on the same harness, you can do both conversions at once. As far as wiring it yourself, you need (or should have) a relay for the power windows. It is located under the drivers side kickpanel from the factory. If I were you, I would try to find a wiring harness from soneone...its just easier, its complete plug and play. There is a power box on the drivers side dash, basically directly above the kickpanel. Its black and has orange and pink wires going to it. The factory harness will just clip in...done. As far as pics, I can send you some...I assume you want a tape measure on it to determine lengths?
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Also, the holes for the pw should already be in the doors and body, you just need to pull the plugs and run them through. There is a black rubber accordian-like tube that keeps the wire from getting caught in the door and seals the holes

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Though I've never put one on a thirdgen, how abot the Spahl window kits? I had a kit (I was gonna use on soon to purchase firebird, but it had electric windows) so I gave it to a friend, he's had it 6 years in his Xterra, still working fine...

Rafael

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

You will be better off getting a factory harness. I bought a power window, lock, and mirror harness from an 89 Firebird when I did mine. Since you're redoing the interior you can run the wiring behind the dash where it's supposed to go. Since I bought a Bird harness, I had to shorten the wiring for the mirror switch. Right now my wiring is just run under the dash but if I ever have to take the dash out I'm going to run it like factory.

I followed the P71 Interceptor page when I did mine, those are great instructions. If you have tint on the windows, I highly suggest getting someone to hold up the glass. I put a nice big scratch in my tint when I tried pulling the regulator out with the glass down.

If funds permit, replace the regulators, with AC/Delco parts!

89junkyardgta

Here...buy this and save yourself some time and put it in like the factory intended.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/inte...ml#post3674207

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

The bird harness is a direct plug in as well.. even tho its a camaro? If thats the case, I agree this is the easiest way to do it... I just wasn't sure what has been done... thanks!

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

The Bird harness will plug into a Camaro, but like I said in my above post, the wiring for the mirror switch will be very long since the switch is in the center console in a Bird.

RAD5

I am replacing my doors and the regulators are a pain to get in and out because of those stupid rivits. I am thinking about tack welding nuts on the back side of the regulator, then just using small bolts to mount it in place.

cdoyle

I did this swap to mine last year in my 84.

I also swapped out a 92 dash, that had all the wiring too. So wiring was a non issue for me.

The hardest part I thought, was getting the regulator out, and the new one back in. It takes time, but once you get everything lined back up, it's pretty easy.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

nice, thanks for the help guys, i'm talking to him about getting that harness... the power mirrors wont be a problem, because i dont think i'm doing that conversion right now, so i'll just tuck those wires away nicely for a future project thanks!!

cdoyle

The power mirrors was another really easy one to do, if you have the wires already there.

So are the locks

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Whats involved in doing the power locks? i have the switches, just need to do them...

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

Adding the power locks and mirrors will be very easy with the harness I'm sending you,you would just need the pdl actuators and power mirror housings.
Pretty simple stuff.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Alright, I think i'm REALLY doing this this weekend!!! I know i've said that a few times, but I've been busy. Working 45 hours a week and taking 4 classes for grad school is killing me.

My final question about the process. I see in that link that you need 2 power window regulators and 2 power window motors. Autozone has the motors but said the regulators arn't available... what exactly are the regulators? does anyone have pictures? I'm a bit confused. I thought all i had to do was switch out the manual crank for a motor. Is the regulator attached to the motor? does anyone have pictures of this?

89junkyardgta

Hey,

The regulators are attached to the motors. The regulators are the 'arms'. The motor is just that, a motor. You need to drill out the old motor from the regulator and you should be supplied with new screws and nuts to attach the new motor to the regulator. However, if the motors on the regulators you've got work well (you can test with a 12V source), then you just need to bolt the assembly into the doors. The originals (manual or power) are held in with rivets, I think 4 of them. I like to punch out the center pin, then drill the aluminum away to remove the regulator. You can use a piece of folded carboard or something else that won't scratch the glass to hold the window up...just jam it in between the glass and the door, on the inside. When you remove the regulator, the window WILL fall unless its held up. I would get the wiring in first, and hook up the regulators last. You may have to power the regulator to move it around while you try to get it into the tracks. Make sure you have some short bolts or big rivets to re-attach the power regulators back into the door. Good luck. Oh, you'll also need some of those short bolts to bolt the door lock solenoids in as well. Any other issues, feel free to message me.
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Oh, and to do this all like factory, the wiring runs behind the dash in a black plastic channel....you have to pull the dash to get at it. My guess is you are probably not up for that challenge if you're trying to do this in a weekend, so you'll have to run it under the dash I guess.

Ninety-One

I did my car. Locks and windows and hatch. I just jumped into it and im not any professional. It thought it was a big deal, its so easy every third gen should have power. I don't have pics of doing it but heres how it came out:

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

Here is a picture of the regulator:



The power and manual regulators are very different, you'll see that when you remove the manual regulator and compare it to the power one. Do yourself a favor, don't buy aftermarket window motors. The consensus is pretty much that they're crap and to spend the money to get good Delco motors that you know will last another 15 years.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the advice, That is very helpful. When I say I plan on doing it in a weekend, thats only because I've been told it only takes an hour or two per side. As for running the wiring, thats good to know the location it should be, I've been trying to figure that out but didn't know. I like to do things on my car the right way. I've had it for a year and a half and have driven it... 3 or 4 times. I'm not in a rush to get it done, so id rather do it right!! Again, thanks for the advice, i'm sure I'll have more questions!
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Awesome! thanks for the picture and the advice. I figured autozone would be fine, but I will definitely look into Delco. I'll call GM tomorrow. Do you know if the regulators come on the Delco motors? or is that separate? thanks!

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

The regulators come seperate, and I don't know if the regulators are discontinued or not. Used regulators will be fine though, as long as they're not bent or something. Just buy a tube of white lithium grease and grease the gear teeth and all the window tracks.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

Alright, I'll try to find out today, If they don't sell them new, I know this is the wrong thread, but does anyone have any power window regulators their trying to sell?!

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

I called the GM dealership near my house today, and the power motors are 210 bux a piece!!!!!! wait, it gets better! the regulators are 290 a piece!!!! I asked if it was a delco number and they said they couldn't reference it. Does anyone have the delco part number?

I called autozone after and they have the motors for 37.99 each. sounds a little more reasonable to me. The brand was 'cardone' or something along those lines? it was tough to hear on my cell phone. Has anyone had experience with these?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

not sure of experience, but to my knowledge there are lifetime warranty motors...i would highly suggest you check into this...i may be mistaken...

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

what do you mean, you think there lifetime warranty? which ones?

I just called around I found 49.99 for seimens, and 49.99 for dorman?

ever heard of those?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

i can't speak on the generic companies other than their other products (of which i don't study the box so again can't really help). i've gotten all my motors from doner cars i've taken in. I remember a thread...you may have to do a search...i think there was a reference to ebay in them if you want to use that in the search (i.e. ebay window motors). I remember people talkinga bout a lifetime warranty on some $50 brand...but for the life of me i can't remember. People argued quality, along with the fact of having to replace them multiple times compaired to getting delcos and enjoying another 15-20 years. I don't know and can't speak from experience...i'm just saying do your homework...and check out waranties, i do believe a lifetime one is out there.

I do have to say though...if you plan on getting a lifetime waranty one, for the posibility of having to replace them in the future, i would suggest tack welding (if possible, otherwise JB weld) a nut on the regulator...and use a decent grade bolt with thread lock on the threads and a locking washer, and you will very simply be able to remove regulators and replace motors a breeze. just my

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

okay, thanks, i will look into it. I checked the ebay ones, i would rather get a more 'well known' brand if you know what i mean. I want to find delco, but i can't thus far. I dont want to cheap out but then again, i dont want to spend 400 bux on JUST motors... then another 600 for regulators. thats rediculous

84redta

iTrader: (34)

I absolutely agree with you, i'm running a set from an 86 berlinetta, and they are working perfectly. If you want to run brand new that is your cup of tea, but just remember that after 2-3 years they are going to get just as bad as they are in your local junk yard. But i do have to throw my at this, but DO NOT use the ebay motors for whatever reason...you going to a junk yard and spending the same price for a used motor will leave you more pleased than the stories than i have heard about the ebay ones.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

okay, so heres another question... should i just buy used... i'm more scared of used than new from autozone... but i'm not sure

(thanks for your quick reply's and help too)

84redta

iTrader: (34)

personally thats how i go, cause the pick-n-pull yards are filled with fbodies, but i go there with a 12V source and test the motors before i pull them, out of maybe 30 sets, i've only encountered one dead motor, and that includes the ones with busted windows (direct water to regulator/motor), and cracked open windows. Maybe i've just had good luck with it, but personally i'm with you with not spending $400 on motors.

And most of the slow looking motors are just dirty tracks, clean em up and use some white lithium greese, and they are up and running quickly again.

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

$200? I thought I remember people saying the Delco motors were like $80. Try calling Sam Taylor Buick/Cadillac in Florida at 1-800-498-2301.

I wouldn't worry about buying new regulators, used will be fine.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

I'll try that tomrrow... yeah, i thought 210 was rediculous

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

So, I drove an hour and a half to get to my car this weekend and realized I forgot my keys... Guess the power window conversion is going down next weekend... whoopse!

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

I called them up and they told me 115 a piece. I still think 230 is quite steep. I'm trying to decide if I should go new at autozone, or used at a junk yard. Suggestions from everyone!

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

You say the factory harness will just clip in... done. I put my harness in this weekend, and now the car is at the shop getting painted. I am going to put everything back together when I get it home next week. I just wanted to verify that there is no relay, fuse, etc that needs to be added... literally, plug in that one connection and done? I'm just trying to save myself some agrivation later on down the road!!!!

Also, speaking of fuses and relays, I put a post up about the trunk release. does anyone know where the relay goes for that? I heard it is under the console, but i dont see it... any help is great!

thanks guys

89junkyardgta

I *think* the only ones that have a relay are the 87-92 pull down units...the standard popper solenoids are just a single wire on a switch. Hit the switch, close the circuit, soleoid goes 'bang', hatch unlocks. And yes, I think they are right, the relay, if present, is under the console for the 87-92.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

It is a 91, so I guess what your saying is it should have the relay. I pluged everything in and it didn't work, which verified to me that it should have a relay. All I see under the console is a big... 2 inch by 2 inch black box, which i know isn't a relay. Is this some sort of cover that needs to be removed? or something else? Does anyone have pictures of this area on their car?

Also, Anyone know about the plug and play wiring harness, for the windows? are there any relays or fuses associated with that?

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

The relay is for the door locks. If you're using that connector that was dangling under the driver side of the dash, you'll probably need to buy a circuit breaker to go in the fuse box. Mine didn't have the circuit breaker there becuase my car had no power options.

89junkyardgta

Ok, from what I remember from the last harness I pulled, there should be a relay (large silver thing, probably about 2" X 3" X 2") that is plugged into the power window harness. It should locate behind the drivers kickpanel. As far as power to the system, there *should* be a black plug board (I don't know what else to call it) up high on the drivers side dash. It will be clipped into the the inner steel that makes up the firewall post/kick panel. Basically, stick your head under the dash, look for a big fat orange wire with a black stripe. It should lead to the plug board. If you DON'T have a big orange wire under there, there should be a BATT ACC or something like that on your fuse panel. The big orange wire on your windows should plug into that. That should power them up. I don't know about the circuit breakers on these cars...back in the day GM used them, but I've never seen one on these car, mind you, I've never looked either. You should ask compuwiz for more details. What colour are the wires going to the 'black box'??
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Oh, and I assume that the power hatch you are trying to use came out of a 91 as well??? If you want to by-pass the pull-down motor guts part, the solenoid does unbolt from the other parts and you can just use it by itself....I think I might try to take a look at some schematics and see what the wiring looks like.

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

There are two kinds of harnesses for the power locks and windows. 82-88 (not sure on the ending year) had a silver metal relay and the black junction box (pic: http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2327/40600170pd1.jpg) described in the previous post. The 89 and later harness has a black plastic relay (pic: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...w-img_0048.jpg) and no junction box. It uses this plug instead of the junction box: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...w-img_0047.jpg.

Hope that helps clear up the wiring harness types

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

okay... i have a harness from a 91. It has that 'relay' as well as that one plug. I pluged that plug into the existing plug on my cars harness. so hypothetically speaking.... if i plug in the window motor and the switch... it should work. just that ONE plug and everything is all set? nothing extra hidden anywhere?

Thanks, those pics are helpful, becuase i can see what oyu are talking about

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

Yep, just make sure you have the harness grounded. The stock ground point is right next to the front left driver seat mounting bolt, but anywhere that it is screwed into bare metal will work.

TPI-RS

iTrader: (6)

The existing 'car' harness, or the 'power window harness'

sorry if this seems like a dumb question... i'm learning as i'm going! thanks! i can't wait to get it back from the shop and finish it up next week! just in time for summer!!!!