Hi,

I found a set of seats on jegs that I want to put in the camaro.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...55323_-1_10509

These look pretty nice for what I want to do. My question is, I want to do 5 point harnesses also. I plan on doing a cage soon but not sure when. What's the best setup without getting crazy about money? Can I bolt them to the seat mounts until I get a cage to weld them to? Any ideas would be great.

Thanks

 

you'd have to make custom adapters for the seats and the stock seat mount brackets. As for the cage, unless you can weld, I'd take it to someone.

 

I can probably handle rigging up the seats, but I'm wondering how people have the harnesses set up? I haven't physically looked at anybody's as of yet so I'm not sure the best way to set it up.

 

well you use the stock bolt holes for the 2 lap belts. I believe the thread is 12mm x1.75 pitch IIRC. take your stock bolts to a hardware store to buy grade 8. The crotch belt is just a hole drilled under the floorpan with a plate under the floor from summit, etc. The shoulder harnesses are welded onto tabs on the crossbar on the roll cage.

 

6 points work out better, because each leg of the submarine belt can fit right onto the two front seat studs to make that nice "V" for the two points. Then the middle two where your lower seat belt bolts are and the upper two on your harness bar.


With a 5 point you need to have a point welded in.

 

Are any shoulder belts long enough to bolt to the back bolts of the seat? Atleast until I can afford to put a cage in.

 

I wouldn't trust those tiny seat studs to hold a harness in. I've snapped them off before on other cars just tightening a seat down.


You don't install a 5point harness until there is a cage, mounting the shoulder pieces to the rear seat bolts will result in spine collapse if you get into an accident. Also, for street driving I get sick of my 5 point harness/roll bar pretty quickly. Luckily it's not driven that much.

 

Yes there are some that will reach. Get a floor mounted harness.

Also, you will NOT collapse your spine or any of that bull. If the angle is greater than 45* than it is safe. The instructions for any floor mounted harness will specify this, it is the whole reason they were invented.

The stupid people who get harnesses and mount the shoulder straps to the rear seat bolts on the seat they are sitting in are the morons.

If you take the upper restraints and bolt them in the rear seat belt bolts it will be safe.

If you would like I could scan my RCI instructions and simpson has instructions too for floor mounted bolts.

My Corbeau set that I have in my car right now specifies the rear bolts a great place as long as it is greater than 45.

 

the angle for NHRA is LESS than 45 degrees, or I believe it shows the mounting point to be no lower than 4" below your shoulder

 

I keep forgetting that I have to pass NHRA tech inspection everytime I drive to work

Not everyone has a track car. Just because we DO NOT have a roll cage in our car does not mean we aren't safe. Since you opened the wound, do you drive that beautiful camaro around town with a helmet since you have a roll bar? If not when you get in a wreck I would hate to see what your egg would look like.

The point is, I guess Simpson, RCI, and corbeau are not full of crap. Some things were designed for the street and some for the track.

It is still safe even though I am not on the track.

 

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...restraints.pdf

Here's the instructions for the RCI harnesses, which shows what I stated previously, they are not meant to be mounted directly down. 5 point harnesses are not DOT approved either. If my head were to reach far enough back to hit the roll bar then obviously my neck would be snapped since I can't move that far in the harness to contact the bar. I do have sfi approved padding just in case, but my egg will be fine, unless my neck grows 6 inches longer. I'd be more worried about my head going through the drivers window than ever touching the main hoop.

 

Yeah, umm find where anyone said straight down? I said greater than a 45* angle. That says 40*. So what is your argument exactly?

 

that says less than 40 degree angle or no more than 4" inches lower than your shoulder. If you get into an accident and your body pushes forward and the shoulder harness is mounted on the floorpan below the seat your spine will collapse.

 

The biggest part is that what is the reason to have the harness if not going to the track, since you will still get a ticket, even with a harness on. It is NOT DOT accepted, agree with it or not that is the law. I personally think that it's a pain. My friends S10 has the 5 point for the track, and he still has his OEM seat belt for street driving. It's a PITA, but, that's what it takes. For a long time we would switch belts out to take it to the track.

 

yes indeed, its not just a matter of passing tech, its about being safe. If the guy's going to be running a roll bar anyways, there should be no argument as to where they should be mounted. I just have the wrap around kind that are attached will attach to my crossbar on the hoop.

 

Not every state has a law against harnesses. I have been pulled over 3 times and the police hasn't even so much mentioned them.

I was pulled over once on base here to see if I was wearing a seat belt and the police saw me wearing a harness and then said "Have a nice day"

Just because your state is crazy doesn't mean everyone is out to get you, besides. Most cops probably understand that it is 10 times safer than OEM 3 point.

My own reason for getting a harness was.

One side you have a crappy 3 point belt with a seriously crappy ertia wheel that always leaves slack in your belts, or do you get a harness that glues you to the damn seat?

New seat belts cost a fortune. I wouldn't get some from a JY, since 90% of those were wrecked.

Like I have said before. NHRA doesn't inspect you on the way to work. They make sure you are safe for going over 100mph.

You cannot say that a floor mount harness is worse off than OEM seat belts, because it isn't.

My corbeau harnesses have instructions that show right and wrong setups. One setup, was to the rear seat bolts, the other was to the upper bolts.
The wrong way was directly under your seat.

If you'd like write corbeau and tell them they are full of crap, maybe they will send you a sticker to keep you from spilling their lies.

 

The seat belt bolts that I pulled out from the backseat look like strong bolts to hold them. But they are below 40 degrees I believe. If you did mount below your seat, wouldn't the pivot point of the holes in the upper part of the seat be the downward pressure point? Not trying to argue here, just an idea.

 

I believe there are Federal laws against tampering with DOT-mandated safety equipment, just as there are Federal laws against tampering with EPA-mandated emissions equipment.

It is. By mounting the shoulder belt to the roof, the OEM seatbelt doesn't translate forward inertia into downward force through your spine.

If you had an aftermarket fixed-back racing seat, then you could mount the belts to the floor more safely.

 

Well, even if it is a law, not every state enforces it. It is a federal law about emissions yes, but where I live in GA there is no emissions testing or no one looks under your car or in your engine bay to check for emissions.

Point is, police will probably not waste their time. They do not here.

I disagree with you completely about the floor mount harness. If the angle from the back of the seat to the upper harness is greater than 45* angle then it will not compress the back of the seat.

This has been debated so many times on so many different forums and everyone has their own opinions. When it all boils down to it, it is your car do what you want.

I have seen no evidence in proving my way wrong or your way.

I will try and scan the corbeau harness instructions.

 

No need to scan the instructions, just read where I said "if you have an aftermarket racing seat".

A shoulder belt mounted to the floor behind the seat will compress the spine when used with a stock-type, non-racing seat which doesn't provide support for the belt above the shoulders. It's a matter of physics, not opinion.

Even when used with a racing seat, mounting the shoulder belts to a cage crossmember behind the seat is a much more secure arrangement than floor mounting.

 

Show me proof that all floor mounting is dangerous. That floor mounting is more dangerous than OEM.

Also, I want you to look up the corbeau 3 point setup instructions. Perhaps then, you may see my point since you believe you know how all harnesses are used.

3 point setup for corbeau can be mounted on the floor or in the upper top mounting point from the old oem setup.

Go ahead, humor me.

 

I have posted this before. You mount a harness to the floor and you can seriously injure yourself. With any seat, the mounting point can be no more than 4" below the shoulders. The SFI in the following explanation details the reason.

Proper Installation is Important.The effectiveness of a restraint assembly is also influenced by attachment techniques.The principal precaution for installing the mounting hardware to the vehicle is to minimize bending stress in the fitting. This is achieved by making sure the belts pull from a straight angle against the hardware. The assembly should be installed so that the straps do not rub against any surface that can cause the webbing to fray. The anchoring mechanisms should also be periodically checked so that they don’t become loose or weakened.Proper installation of the restraint assembly also means achieving the correct fit to the driver. Belts should be as short as possible to reduce stretching for better control of occupant movement.The attachment points must provide the optimum geometry to minimize movementof the belts. Lap belts perform best when they act at an angle between 45° and 55°relative to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle as illustrated in part A of Figure 2. This angle permits the lap belt to react to the upward pull of the shoulder harness. A sys-tem installed with a shallow belt angle, as shown in part B of Figure 2, permits the shoulder harness to pull the lap belt up off the pelvic area and into the abdominal region with the likelihood ofinjury to internal organs.The end attachments of the shoulder harness must also be installed at appropriate angles. The ideal position is anywhere between 5° below and 30° above the driver’sshoulder, as seen in part Cof Figure 2.If the upper attachmentpoint falls significantlybelow the driver's shoulder,then a spinal compression injury is likely to occur. In an accident situation, the shoulder belts pull down and back on the torso as they resist the forward motion of the driver. The resultant restraint force compresses the spinal col-umn and will add to the stresses in the spine already caused by the force of the crash impact.On the other hand, if the trailing ends of the harness are too far above the shoulder(greater than 30°), then two problems can occur. First, tension in the shoulder har-ness is increased and undue stress is applied to the harness and its structural attach-ments. Second, excessive angle will cause excessive motion. If the harness belts are too far above the shoulder, they will provide little resistance to forward motion of the dri-ver’s upper torso. The result is impact with the steering wheel and the possibility of neck injury. The shoulder straps should also be 3-6” apart behind the driver's neck toprevent slippage off the shoulders.The reliability of a restraint system is greatly affected by the way it is installed. It is imperative to follow the installation instructions provided by the seat belt manufac-turer. Also, the necessity of replacing or rewebbing seat belts every two years canno tbe more important.As cars become more advanced and consequently go faster, everything possible mus tbe done to make the racing experience safe as well as fun. Failure to do so can cause serious injury, or worse. If there is anything that can be learned from the sport of racing, it’s that anything is possible, and taking the attitude that “it won’t happen to me” is risky, because it does happen.

"Excessive Acceptable Range A C Reprinted from SFI Foundation/Jennifer M. Bowden"

 

i just looped my strap onto the roll cage crossbar.. like its in the tab but on the bar instead.. that way, its always at the perfect straight angle.. no tabs bending, not bolts breaking and nothing to worry about for that part.. i'll try get a pic up soon..

 

Your silly cut and paste will contradict the OEM setup, so I guess 300 million americans will die because their OEM setup is not SFI approved.

 

You are truly not very smart. I would guess you having reading comprehension issues also. These recomendations are not for OEM 3 point belts but as even I am sure you can understand. OEM belts are not bolted to the floor behind the seat.

If you want to injure yourself, feel free, just don't post false and misleading info on a public forum. Willans, Simpson,Gforce and Sparco all agree you are wrong. People can become injured and die using your info. And yes, the SFI knows a lot more about safety than most ever will.

 

If you are so smart howcome you haven't proved your point. The only point you proved is that you need SFI harnesses mounted by SFI regulations.

Show me an OEM 3 point setup that is bolted 4 inches below the shoulder? Hrmm... I cannot think of one.

My 3 point corbeau setup can be mounted in the rear seat bolts or in the upper bolts (THE SAME AS OEM) but since you think it is not safe I guess I shouldn't do it because you are smarter than DOT engineers.


My other argument is that a floor mount can be safe, You have provided no evidence other than the instructions of NHRA specifications to mount a 5-6 point harness.

Show me crash test results not your stupid theories.

 

all OEM 3 point setups are bolted higher than the shoulder for the driver. Therefore there won't be any spinal compression.

 

I guess some people can't read the writing, even when it is written all around them. If you would like to take the chance at injuring yourself, that is your business, but, please don't fill people's heads with half-truth's, and he said/she said issues. I know not all of us have the luxury of being omnipetent, so for those of us who are not, please let us stick to reading the instructions and doing things right the first time.

 

You want instructions? Since you like opening up your mouth, perhaps you can read this out loud for everyone?

http://www.ioportracing.com/instructions/VWAudiQF.pdf

These instructions show you how to use factory rear mounts. You probably will not read it though because ignorance is bliss.

 

Here is another

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...seat-belt.html

 

i only have one thing to say to the person arguing that its ok to mount the shoulder harness to anypart of the floor, or anything further then 4" or so below the shoulders.




you're a dumba$$













doesnt matter if you agree with me or not.

the fact that without any formal training or thought you think its OK is irrelevant.. i dont have a problem with that. if you turned into a greasy splotch on the pavement tonight, i wouldnt even notice, or care.


my issue with you is only this:

Do NOT go spreading around stupid info to the masses.


its one thing for you to design your car to hurt yourself.
its another when you give someone else information that can potentially injure them.



so just shut the f*ck up.

 

you're showing your own ignorance between a sedan and a 2+2 thirdgen coupe.

 

You are showing ignorance because you never read the thread. The picture that you think is the correct way is how I had my setup. So what is your point?

 

none of them are nearly as safe as a roll bar mount, so this discussion is pointless.