insomniac

iTrader: (3)

So what are the most valuable non specialty third gens?


by non specialty i mean not including TTA, pace cars, firehawks ect...


How do the convertible values compare to the hard tops? Are the values rising year over year or are they falling like cars that just get older?

scottmoyer

The car values have been on the upswing, even in the bad economy. I'd say that the most valuable, cost wise, are the low mile originals with the best engine options. They seem to be commanding the highest prices. I haven't seen that convertibles are priced any higher than coupes. If the car is a coupe, it needs to have the V8 with the 350 or the 305 5 speed. The 305 auto isn't selling for as much. The V8 verts are only available in a 305, so the value is in the best engine available for the model.

There have been a number of extremely low mile Formulas pop up, but they haven't gotten much because they had the L03 and not the TPI. Also, in the fall, there was an '87 Trans Am with 14k miles on it for $7500. The guy couldn't sell it because it had the LG4 auto. Anybody looking for a 25+ year old car for collectibility wants the performance side of it. Things are different when you buy the car brand new, but older cars will need the options list to get the best value.

MJS422

I totally agree. I searched for a long while for a 305 TPI car with a 5 speed, with all the performance goods, even if it needed some TLC and extra work. Passed up many third gens with much lower miles, and in much nicer shape. Finding a 350 or 305 TPI with the hot set up will alway be demand. Just happy to find one that I could save and enjoy.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Values have increased over the years and will continue to do so. The most valuable "normal" cars in general are L98 G92s and LB9 M5 G92s. The Camaros also go for a little more than the Firebirds.

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

as our values rise, its seems the fox body mustang prices are dropping iv noticed....

you can get a fairly clean 5.0 GT for 3500 on craigslist

IMissMy86TA

Yeah back in the day most wanted something that was enjoyable for driving to work every day. a 5 speed normally is not 1st choice. Now that the new buyers wont have these as daily drivers they want fun. a 5 speed fits that bill and really changes the whole character of the car. as someone who had an auto back in the day it is my firm belief that there will be many like you that are looking for the 5-speed stock as a collectible. The performance difference stock for stock is not so great to sway someone to have an auto. I really started looking for 5.7 when I was looking to buy but found my 5 speed for a good price and with low miles. I coukdnt pass it up
If you look for a car to mod than that is a different story and one I agree with having the 5.7 350 in it. Glad you found your baby!

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

i went the other way, my daily driver is a 5 speed. so when i bought my weekend fun car, my 91 vert, i wanted auto. dropped in the L98 and basically redid the whole drive train. its not a 11 second blow your doors off car. but its nice to just put the top down put it in drive and cruise.... i guess id feel different if my daily driver wasnt a 5 speed...

Grey89GTA

Yes there are ten tons of Mustangs for 3,500 or so. I've kept up on those over the years (owning around 17 of them) and the ones with less than 50 or 60k miles (really clean) have been bringing 6-10 grand for some time. (82-92 year models). Even though I've been around ThirdGens this is my first one to own and the trend seems the same. Like the man said options make a difference where 5.0s (kind of) came the way they came. When my buddy bought the GTA I own now back in 08 we were surprised at the price. After a lot of research we found that that was the norm. And where I have it priced now is very close to what he paid . He originally wanted a80 Z28 but they were up to 5grand over his budget.

RockinGTA89

guess i didn't edit that out correctly....
anywho, scott perhaps every year but 1989, that was a convertible that got the V8 was only a 305, however we had a topic on this not so long ago about that 350s were available on the 89 birds for some reason. Specifically, the GTAs...

my uncle's GTA is a convertible with the 5.7L engine of course with that it only came in auto.

As as value is concern, yeah it looks like the value of ours thirdgens are on the rise, which saddens me even more because it's quite possible i could of sold my car for more money now, then when i sold my gta back in 2010. Down the road i plan on buying back my ride (hoping it's still around) but when I do i'm sure i'm going to have to buy it back at a higher price then when i sold it, but i kinda knew that would possibly happen...

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

how do you think it effects the value if you swap in a L98? For example my car was a TBI 305 then I swapped in a L98. Actually tore it down and completely rebuilt the L98 before I put it in. But that aside does the L98 add value or take it away because the car is no longer original?

Also I wonder what happens to the value with a LS or LT1 motor swapped in compared to the L98 since at least the L98 is period correct...

not that im ever going to sell my car, but just curious..

scottmoyer

Those 350 birds are not factory coded with a 3 in the VIN, right? From the factory, the 305 was the only V8 available in the vert.

Javier87z28

iTrader: (1)

If its a higher mileage car I dont believe swapping motors would necessary lead to a decline in price as opposed to a lower mileage third gen

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

A swapped 350/LS1 can add value to a car but the most valuable in general will always be the low/lower mile originals.

RockinGTA89

oh yeah your right...i forgot, these cars came in ttops...before being coverted into convertibles from ASC...

Van Nuys born

Being a recent buyer of an 89 G92 5 speed Iroc w 47k mi, the Value was there.

I was considering buying a 66/67 Nova SS with a 4 speed ..... and would have had to spend around 25K or more to get a nice drivable car. An L79 Nova was what I wanted but their even more money. Then if it's original it will have a 4 speed..... and probably no A/C... so not as drivable as an IROC.

My 89 has nice original paint and interior ( Original ) and the whole car cost about what it would probably cost to put a nice paint job on it.
And the real plus is it isn't in a paint shop it's in my garage and all I have to do is turn the key and drive.

I think their an Xlnt value right now....

IMissMy86TA

Yeah they are...and more people are realizing it. Just wait till guys my age start retiring... I am 46 now and was in HS 82-86. once the kids are grown they will flock to these cars same as the 70s guys have to the 2nd gens. Its coming. I bought mine early cause I knew if I waited I wouldnt be able to afford what I wanted.

Van Nuys born

I've had a few weekend cars to compair it to..... and the Iroc is pretty sweet. When I show it to older car guys they can't get over how much it cost and it's condition.... these guys are used to the hotrods that cost 50K and still need work. I've been there too.

IMO Their in a time warp period right now..... You guys have seen this happen before with other makes. I saw it happen with older 911's.... they spiked in price right through the bad ecomomy.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I've been telling people that for years even though that's still about 10-15 more years away. Someone said to me about 12 years ago, "Buy an early 2nd Gen Camaro now because in 10 years they're gonna be worth alot more than they are today." He was right, the values did go up, not as much as the 1st Gens did of course, but it's just the cycle. More and more people are already looking at our cars as classics, it's only gonna multiply years from now.

So I say to people, if you have the cash, get out there and try to find what you like as it's already way more difficult than a decade ago. Amazing really, Thirds were still somewhat plentiful then, it's changed so much. (it was still kinda difficult to find what you really wanted though lol) I remember back when they were literally EVERYWHERE. Those were good times.

IMissMy86TA

Much agreed. I remember back in the 80s when my dad bought me a 86 TA He almost bought a 66 vette vert for me. you snooze you lose I guess.

okfoz

I made this a few years ago, I think it still rings true.



As for the Convertible 350 cars that have a VIN of 2... Why is it no one complains about the Yenko Camaros from the late 60's where they actually put in bigger dealer installed engines, those were not "factory" either IIRC... The thing is about the convertibles from ASC, they used all factory parts, made by the same people, in the same place, the only difference is a number in the VIN was a 2 instead of a 3 that had to do with the EPA more than anything else.

I will agree, beyond the special Firehawk, TTA, 1LE, and Players cars, the order of Value will be 350 W/perf gear -> LB9/M5 W/perf gear, 350 (tall gear) LB9/M5 Tall gear, so on and so forth.

I will note that it seems finding a nice performance 3rd gen for reasonable price is becoming quite the challenge. Between dwindling numbers, inflation and the like. I remember buying a 87 Formula 350 for $700 only a few years back, sold it for $2100, but I had to get it running. Cleaned it up and all, but I do not think i could replace it now for even $3000...

I digress.

oddscrounger

cool chart... I've got an 87 LB9 5 speed G92 package. Still has the original 3.45 rear end. But the engine is a rebuilt 305 (out of an earlier vette) with a Crane cam; edelbrock shorties; and a gale banks 3" exhaust. So at Thirdgen Fest last year a lot of guys were interested in my car cuz it's mostly original, and the mods are "period correct"... ie the banks exhaust and edelbrock headers, neither of which are available anymore...

jrhaus76

I bought my car in 2008 (the second time) for $5000. It had 84,000 miles, 100% original, zero rust, clean interior.

It's a loaded up 89 L98. Only a few options it doesn't have.

I think it was a pretty good deal. I've done quite a bit to it since 2008 so I have a good bit more then that in it now but it's a fun car and I enjoy it.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

In general, the top-of-the-line ones in their respective years of availability (L69, LB9/5-spd, L98, G92, etc.) are more "valuable" than the bottom ones (L03, LG4, 6-cyl, 4-cyl). GTA, IROC, etc. are more "valuable" than SC, SE, Berlinetta, etc.

CONDITION is the most important factor.

Since convertibles are widely available at dealerships these days, that feature doesn't command the desirability in these cars today, that it did when they were new. Still worth something, just not as much of a bump as it once was.

CONDITION is the most important factor. That's even MORE important with convertibles since so many of the unique convertible pieces are no longer available.

Did I mention, CONDITION makes more difference to the value, than what the car was originally.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Sofa - just trying to make sure but I think you are saying the condition of the car is most important...

Van Nuys born

Condition , originality and performance options are super important as is documentation.

A car some gear head " ordered " for performance will get special interest, IMO.

IMissMy86TA

condition is important.. but if it is a 4vyl firebird.. well you wont get much for it... but you will get more than a trashed one.. but not better than a trashed 5.0 tpi 5 speed imho

86T/A_Ram_Air

No offense sir but that statement is not correct. I personally know of two factory 350 verts both Pontiacs. One 89 formula red/black and one 91 blue/grey T/A They do exist and I would put them towards the top of the food chain since we are not talking TTA or Firehawk.

RockinGTA89

86T/A...
i think you misunderstood Scott..
what he's saying is that the factory built convertible cars (91-92) that had the vin digit 3 with the biggest engine available (305 was the highest you can get) would be more valuable then those that was built with the V6 F cars...of those two years....

I know there are 350 convertibles, (my uncle's GTA is one of them,) so it doesn't surprise me that there was possibly a 350 formula built as well in a convertible, but then again, anyone that can chime in that if there was any of those built back in 89, since i'm not familar with formulas to begin with. Okfoz? As mentioned before in 89, they weren't factory built convertibles but by the company known as ASC.
The convertibles that came to be were originally TTOP vehicles. My uncle's GTA was originally a TTOP car and had the RPO code CC1...

now if what your saying is true about those are indeed "FACTORY" built 350 verts, perhaps they were built as prototypes or for promotional use for special people within GMs office....like a COPO (central office production order)...but wasn't suppose to be available to the buying public. The only way to verify that is by checking the specific number on the vin tag and the RPO code, which i doubt they made a rpo code for 89 convertibles....
If anyone knows that i would like to hear it, because i've never seen an RPO for a convertible in the first place, then again you just don't see many convertible 3rdgen fbodies in the first place.

86T/A_Ram_Air

Umm the "factory" ones were still made by asc. They were just officially made a factory option. An 89 asc and a 91 factory are the same convertible wise.

If I misread about the 350 cars I apoligize

As far as production on 350 verts there are more than you probably realize. There's a thread somewhere that's has the production numbers in it

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

It really amazes me how few 3rd generation cars I see around here anymore. And the ones I do see are usually 91 or 92 RS cars and they are beat to hell. I agree that the ones that are most valuable are going to be the low mileage pristine ones with the TPI motors.

timfitz63

Here's a resource I've used to answer this question about values:

Hagerty Classic Car Values

These guys are in the business of insuring the vehicles, so I figure they've got a good read on the market values. That's not to say that the market, at any given time, will bear more than the insurance will cover, however...

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

how does swapping from a LO3 to a L98 effect the value in a vert? better motor but takes away originality

scottmoyer

There is a difference in the factory vert and the ASC verts. The factory was required to have every car engine/vehicle combo certified. There was no factory certification for a factory built 350 car. The added weight would have put the car into the gas guzzler zone, so the car wasn't made by GM. The VIN carries a "3" in the sixth place for factory designated verts and a "2" for coupes. Yes, there are 350 verts out there, made by ASC, with the exact same components as the factory verts, but they don't have the VIN to designate it. The ASC verts are considered aftermarket because there is no vert RPO code like the factory cars. Does it change the value? It could. Factory options carry more weight than being added later.

In comparison, a 305 IROC-Z from the factory with a 350 transplant will be worth less than the original 305.

IMissMy86TA

I agree.. BUT... most people know that if the work was done by ASC it is as good as factory. Kinda like YENKO camaros... not factory.. worth money? hell yeah! wel not like them as performance machines.. but I still think as long as ASC it is good

scottmoyer

Actually, third gen nuts like us know that. Non 3rd gen nuts will be looking for the RPO codes and correct VIN designation. You are correct that they are the same as far as build, but it's all about documentation. The VIN and RPO are factory documentation.

okfoz

I will concede that the reason why they were made the way they were, as a dealer installed option, is they would not meet the CAFE requirements for fuel economy, even though I got 25.6 mpg or something on the highway coming back from North Carolina at 70Mph.

The thing that scares most people off of a "conversion" car IE one of the other convertibles, whether it was the Matrix, Hi-Line, Autoform, or the Knudsen Tojan, is there is little or no support for them.

Where the ASC cars, even when done as a Dealer requested option, the parts are plentiful enough to if I found a Camaro convertible in the junkyard I can get most of my pieces to replace what I have. I can call up Bruce at Hawksthirdgenparts.com buy parts from them... This is true with the exception of the spears on top of the quarter panels, and the third brake light. Which even if mine got damaged, I could use a set from a 91-92 or a Camaro...

When I purchased my 89 Formula 350 convertible that GM did not make, I was able to go to my local Pontiac Dealership, tell them what I had and I could get parts. Even the parts on my car all have the appropriate GM part number... I was fortunate that the parts I needed had the part number as that is how I replaced a few of them.

John

gsxrfann

To be quite honest, I didn't buy my IROC for the long term value, as it will never be worth what the original muscle cars are worth. I bought it because it was considered a hotrod back in my high school days and I was finally able to find one that I could afford. I plan on doing (and have already started) making it into a fast, good looking g car for my wife and I to enjoy, but be able to take it to the track and run some good numbers. Maybe they will go up in value to a certain degree, but don't expect too much. I mean, to be honest, there were just too many made.
Just buy one to enjoy and make into your own and enjoy it. Get the value out of it that way.
This is just my opinion and I am not trying to offend anyone. This is just my perspective on things. My brother has a 71 Plymouth Barracuda (440 six pack, pistol grip) clone car and it will always be worth more than my car, but I can take my car out and enjoy it more than he can his because I don't have to worry about having so much money tied up into a muscle car.

RockinGTA89

if you think about it, back in the day those ol 60 and 70 muscle cars were treated the same way. Buyers back then didn't think of value of their cars other then the fact they wanted to make their ride to go faster! Value to them at the time, was not even in their vocabulary. It was more like,
what's the biggest motor i can put it, headers? sure! short throw shifting and 4.10 gears baby! haha!

scottmoyer

For all of those people that say that too many were made, you are completely wrong. Look at the number of early Mustangs. They still command a decent price. Also, look at the Tri-5 Chevy's. Millions were made and they command top dollar. There were also about 700,000 first gen Camaros in just three years. The total thirdgen count over 11 years is only 2x the 1st gen.

jharrison5

Right now is the time to buy if you're looking because prices are going to start going up from here on out. I bought my first f-body, an '81 Firebird Esprit, in 1993 for $1700. That same car in the same condition is going for $6000-$7000 now and the '79 T/A is worth even more.

IMissMy86TA

The same was said for the late 1970's Trans ams.. they were dogs and went cheap. who would want a smog controlled TA??? Here is one for 54K....


http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...=921.1&aid=466

woo. the average is in the 30K range..

how about a 454 super duty.. still had basic smog stuff..people said the were not like the late 60's... http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...ln=970&aid=525
$132,000.00


Just give us time.. the last one will be the TTA/1LE and Firehawk stuff in many years from now.

okfoz

Both of those are extreme examples... the SD-455 for starters was a limited production thing (around 700 units as it describes) It kind of waged its tail in the face of the feds. The 1977 is a Smokey & the Bandit car, albeit the paint was a trim package more than anything, they are quite desirable. The Movie made this car desirable...
IIRC the 400+ cubic inches that was in that car was not a slouch for the day... my Sister had a Buick Riviera with the 403 and it really moved quite well for a smog car, in comparison to my 350 in basically the same car that was so doggy that it had a hard time getting out of its own way it was night and day...

I think any stock 87+ 350 TPI car would take it to task, but in the day of smogalishous, it was pretty quick...

Just saying...

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

I couldn't agree more! They used to be everywhere, now they are seldom seen driving around. I have been watching the market very closely for 5 or so years now. Cars that were $10-11k in 2008 are now high teens, it seems like a steady increase in price, especially over the last year or so. Look at the cost of NOS parts like GM floor mats when they can be found, it's all getting very expensive. I'm thrilled that I have the two that I have now, want to pick up one more low mile car before they get too expensive.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Very true. I've watched the prices for almost 15 years now and there's always been a steady increase, it started moreso in the late 00s. I'm surprised it continued through the recession. When I was in high school all I had to do to see Third Gens was drive around or go to the nearest parking lot and there was one there. It was that easy. When I was a kid, they were all over every neighborhood. Now I have to go to a car show most of the time lol.

The days of a muscle/sports car selling like that are probably far gone now.

jrhaus76

I don't know, I see a ton of new Camaros and mustangs.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

New Camaros and mustangs sell in the 85,000 range not the 150,000-200,000 range like Thirds did. I can't simply drive around the block or go to a random parking lot and see one like I used to do with ours cars. I also don't see multiple ones on the road daily. One or two maybe. I used to see Thirds in traffic all the time. Follow them sometimes too just to get a better look lol.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Nope. They also sell to a different demographic. I was watching a video online about the new Mustang and the interviewer was asking about the new 4 cylinder engine. The designer from Ford contended that today's Mustang owner doesn't care what's under the hood as long as power and mileage is decent. The commercial for the Mustang shows some hipster twentysomethings cruising around on skateboards. They are trying to make them more mainstream and eco-friendly to appeal to the masses and increase sales. There is just not as much interest in tire shredding pony cars from this new generation. They are perfectly happy in Priuses and Fusion Hybrids.

jrhaus76

First, of course they sell to a different demographic. People are a lot different today then say, 1985. Lol

Second, there are a hell of a lot more choices today for quality performance cars.

Third, the Camaro has gotten pretty expensive. It's no longer the "poor mans" anything. It's also gotten a hell if a lot nicer. I had a 2010 SS and I will tell you 20 years of advancement over my 89 are apparent!

Forth, cars last a lot longer so people are not replacing every few years bc cars are falling apart.


I love my IROC as much as the next guy, probably more but it will be a while before they are worth much. Thankfully I have an 89 L98 IROC. Too bad it's got almost 90k and isn't stock or original. I expect my smiles and enjoyment out if the car are now and always will be more than the "value" of this car.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

While many of the younger generation are duds, the people buying up the radical V8 ones are in their 40s and 50s. To be honest though, unlike years ago, they're also the only ones that can afford it now. No way is your average college grad buying a $38,000 "base" V8 SS, nevermind the other models. It's not really their fault. Performance costs alot now (so does the gas) and people just don't have the cash unless they're decently established these days. So, as I said before, we'll probably never see "Third Gen" days again.

jrhaus76

Lol. Duds. Truth!

I agree the top dog ZL1, GT500 and even the 392 SRT Challenger are crazy expensive.