navy02ws6

Just thought I'd share this with you guys as I am quite upset about this...just ran a Carfax on my '91 T/A as I haven't ran it in a few years.

Carfax was always clean before, other than a minor fender bender right before I bought it (damage is still there). But today it came back as "fire damage, declared total loss by insurance company" as its first record in July '90. Under that record it says "carfax starting reporting this data on February 25, 2013". Gee, thanks. Would never have bought the car or started restoring it had I known that in the first place.

Now I'm questioning if I should just part it out and cut my losses. Been working on it since 2005, and I have maybe $2,000 in it with the purchase price (junkyard has been my main source of parts). It's a white/gray, LB9/auto t-top car with zero rust and a straight body other than the wrinkle in the driver's ft fender/bumper. New NOS rear spoiler (already painted). 168K on the odometer. Bought it with a locked-up engine, already have another low-mile 305 ready to go in it. Was planning on rebuilding the trans, replacing all the weatherstripping, replacing injectors, and all engine/intake seals. Also needs tires and paint as it's peeled off the hood and roof. Interior is very nice other than worn carpet and the door panels peeling up on the outer edges. No seat tears or dash cracks or anything like that. Has a nice set of matching GTA seats in it, otherwise bone stock. I haven't seen any evidence of fire damage, and all the gauges/windows/headlights/turn signals/electrical stuff worked before I pulled the engine.

Was not looking to make it a perfect car, just a nice driver. Was planning on calling Carfax as it met their "buyback guarantee" when I bought it, just to see if I have any options with them (and also to let them know how much I appreciate them waiting 23 years to show that "insignificant" record).

What do you guys think? Should I just part it out, or should I finish it? I never expected the car to be worth more than $2500 or so even when I finish it, and I usually keep my cars a lonnnng time.

Coyote850

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you are allowing this new info to cloud your judgement. Its still the same car you've had since 2005, nothing has changed. Finish it.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

The problem I see is if he ever wanted to sell the car in the future. Anyone running a CarFax would now see that "total loss" entry and might stay away from it, so I get his concern. While not as bad as a salvage title suddenly showing up, the new entry does have an impact.

That said, Navy02WS6, if your expectation was that the car would only ever be worth $2500, then finish it. I do agree with Coyote850 that the new info doesn't change the car you are working on -- only what you might be able to do with it in the future.

If you finish it and enjoy it, that's all that matters. You'll get your $2500 of enjoyment out of it in the long run. Even if you do go to sell it in the future, worst case is that the CarFax entry prevents a sale and you can always part it out then.

Might be interesting to go back to CarFax and see if you can get anything out of them since it sounds like you may not have purchased the car if the loss entry had been there as it should have been. Not sure what their policy is on that.

IMHO -- finish the car and enjoy it and worry about CarFax if and when you ever go to sell the car.

Jersey89GTA

iTrader: (1)

How does a 91 get fire damage in July of 90 ? Did I read that right ?

I know model yrs are out before actual year, but it would have had to been brandy new ....??

Just askin. Think carfax has it wrong ?

navy02ws6

1990 production year was short due to Chevrolet losing the IROC licensing to Dodge...1991 production started in March of '90 I think. My car has an April 1990 build date on the driver's door. Next record on Carfax shows 3K miles, so yeah, the car would have been brand spankin new at the time.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I would finish it. If you didnt notice any signs of fire damage during the time you owned it while you have been working on it then it was either not that bad or it was fixed really good. Another car could have caught fire on the side of it and just damaged the paint and melted some plastic. The dealership could have caught fire and all cars in the area suffered smoke damage if the windows were open. just keep the car and continue working on it I wouldnt worry about it.

FWIW, I would look into it on your spare time and see if Carfax made a mistake. I dont trust carfax at all. The car in my sig pic was under water and totaled. Carfax still shows no water damage claim and I have a clean title on it.

Van Nuys born

I'd contact CarFax............ for 23 years to pass before this was reported throws a wrench into their whole system.They can only report what's in the records....but this shows you how it can fail.... and they do tout a buy back.

Do you have one of their old reports ? no matter, the dates are there.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like a typo screw up to me. Post pix of the car.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Request from Carfax the source of the info.
At a minimum, you'll know the origin of the claim.
Or, if they check into it and it's in error, they'll fix it.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Carfax reports suck simple as that! I sent a 84 trans am to junk yard about 8 years ago and it still comes back as clean title hahaha.

2007xl50

I would contact them, but like said its the same car, sounds like a budget build so i dont see a huge issue with resale as long as you keep the cost down like you have been.

navy02ws6

Thanks for the replies guys -- I think I'm going to continue the build and just try to not think about the Carfax. I know Carfax is worthless as far as actually reporting everything...I can't tell you how many clean Carfaxes I've seen on cars that have been obviously wrecked and poorly repaired, so their lack of information in general is nothing new to me. Quite honestly, I'll probably never sell the car unless they become super valuable (which I don't see happening for at least another 20 years, if ever) so the decreased value part is not a big deal to me at the moment. The buyback guarantee only works if you register for it after running a Carfax initially, which of course I didn't do.

The title is still clean. I can only guess that it was washed since the damage record was in AR, and the car sold at auction a few months later to IL, then has been in GA/FL since '93.

I guess the good thing is it seems like it was a quality repair, or at least good enough to where it's not apparent over 23 years of wear and tear. Just makes me wonder what the specifics were. I can't imagine that the car self-combusted as it was so new at the time. I want to say that all my glass is LOF date coded as well, so either no glass was broken, or it was replaced with OEM, which usually doesn't happen. Will try and post some pix later...currently in the process of cleaning out the garage and getting the necessary parts together to send it off to the body shop.

Gary Simonds

I purchased an 87 iroc in ohio and got a great deal. i was told the car had a salvage title and bought it anyway. story was that the car was stolen and recovered in the 90's and found years later in a storge locker. the original owner got the car back with a salvage title because he had been paid out as a loss. The car is awesome!! it is obvious it was never wrecked. all factory spot welds in place and all body panel stickers are intact and show the proper wear for the age. RPO codes match what the car is. I live in michigan and asked them to re issue the title as original and was told it is not possible. I assume if i ran a carfax it would show stolen.. How many people would really care about the salvage title? PS i paid 4000 for the 305tpi with 90,000 miles

bryan89

I ran a carfax on my 85 trans am. Only record was an emission test in the 90s saying it had 67 miles on it. I had the title that was issued in 91 saying it had 43000 mile on it. Carfax doesnt always get all the info.

okfoz

CARFAX is almost useless... My 89 Formula 350 Convertible, there were 2 bad odometer readings done to the car, some moron used the 10ths digit... The mileage, in one month goes from 5000 miles to 50100 miles to 5020 miles back to 50300 miles or some crap like that...

I never called to see if I could have it corrected, maybe I should... but the car was barely driven for 10 years, and then all of a sudden it jumps some 45,000 miles in a month, never changed hands... It was just insane...

So I put very little stock in CF, or AutoCheck...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Carfax and Autocheck are useless, but I won't buy a car that shows something negative on Carfax. Even though we know cars that have not had issues sometimes show on Carfax as having had issues, that's about all you can do with Carfax - assume if it says it's clean it hopefully is but isn't guaranteed, amd assume if it isn't clean the car should be avoided.

The other issue is if you are buying a barely used car that's a few months old (or any car really), how can you know that it isn't FRESH out of the body shop after a major accident and it just hasn't shown up on Carfax yet? Simply, you can't.

I still can't get a straight answer from who does the reporting to these agencies, my insurance tells me it's the body shops, the body shops tell me it's either insurance or myself (lol), but actually I suspect it's the police anytime a report is written.

Van Nuys born

I ran a Carfax on the 89 IROC I just bought. I've never run one before but thought I would for this purchase to see if the miles lined up, and just to see what maint had been recorded.

After reading this thread I thought I'd register it for the buyback warranty.

The warranty is only good for one year from the date of purchase. It tells you that after you register. It's probably in the fine print too somewhere that's hard to find.

So if something showed up after the warranty period.... I'm sure you'd be out of luck.

Just think of the bucks that a company like this is raking in....

It would be interesting to see their record for buy backs .

okfoz

I have mentioned this before, I purchased a ECM from a junkyard several years back (about 10 now), the VIN was 1G1FP87F9GL177419, (86 Camaro) the car had a serious engine fire, Windshield was even melted, but when I checked the records on Carfax and Auto-Check... it came back with nothing. I have not checked lately to see if it has changed, but I suspect not.

John

scottyroc

iTrader: (9)

CarFax is for reference only. Years ago there was an issue with a car that we sold after owning it for years. The odometer stated the correct mileage but the computer stated that the mileage was triple. The new owner brought a lawyer into this issue with a CarFax as evidence. Long story short......there were multiple things that could change the computer mileage such as jump starting and a CarFax does not stand up in a court of law.

I purchased a Z28 and the owner had the CarFax he ran after he bought it with no damage recorded. I knew the car was hit in the front at one time based off my experience looking at paint. I ran the car through Ebay, listed it for sale with a extremely high price so no one would buy it, to see what their record check brought back. It reported that the car was in a non-collision back when it was new. I think it was hit on the lot before sold new.

Lastly you can fight Carfax to fix the report as long as you have your ducks in a row.

Go with your gut feeling.....as long as it's safe I would keep it and make it what you want.

Ransford2987

This is exactly what I would do. Tell carfax that you own the car and for them to send the information that caused the change after 23 years, or at least ask about it. It seems bogus to me, and, if it were my car, I wouldn't stop until that was off the history report. Also, try autocheck and see what they have. Their records might not concur with carfax's records.

navy02ws6

Finally heard back from Carfax...only thing they could do is confirm the record. They had zero information as far as specifics.

Guess I'm back to where I started.

Ransford2987

Sorry to hear carfax was no help. You could try posting a summary of your situation on expertlaw.com which is a forum just like this one that provides legal info. Also, is there some sort of police record or insurance record? If so, iwould try to trace those. Here is an articleI going regarding to your situation. It basically says to appeal the carfax: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...-it-wrong.html

navy02ws6

Problem is, I think the record is correct. It would explain all of the auction records on the Carfax immediately following the total loss, as well the changes in registered states (title was likely washed).

Of course the thing that sucks is that the car is now fine other than this crippling Carfax.

Dakota W.

It's an automatic? Kill it with fire!- oh wait...

I'd say finish it, since there's nothing but the title to show it was ever burned to a crisp. Plus if you're restoring it, it wouldn't matter to me if I were to buy it.

navy02ws6

The title's actually clean, although I'd never represent it as such. Then again, this is not a car that I would probably ever consider selling now since it's not worth much to begin with, and is now worth 30-40% less than that.

Was thinking of getting a vanity plate as this car should have died multiple deaths by now (once for the fire, then again when I saved it from certain doom). Maybe "BURNTTA" or something like that.

ccusum

I would get a vanity plate of Phoenix! a phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor! LOL!!!

navy02ws6

Yeah, was considering that one for sure as it seems to fit perfectly. Just not certain if people would understand the whole meaning as it pertains to my specific car.