Van Nuys born

I never realized there were so many low mile cars out there..... it doesn't seem hard to find them with under 20K miles..... and several with under 10K.

I saw a YouTube video of a guy pulling an Iroc ... 1985 I think... out of a old semi trailer with like 5 miles on it. And it still had the plastic on the seats.

There seem to be several low miles 3rd Gens out there.... How come ?

eseibel67

Easy answer. By 1985, really nice 60's muscle cars were slowly starting to appreciate in value. Congruently, new cars were making nice performance improvements such as factory Holley carb and headers on a new Mustang, and this new-fangled Tuned Port Injection on the GM's. Some folks thought it might be a good financial move to buy a brand new car, and either mothball it or drive it sparingly for some payoff in the distant future because V8's are going to be banned someday. Now that we are in the distant future with an oversupply of no/low mileage 80's musclecars, you can buy one of your choice for an extremely reasonable price. The other factor going on here that's keeping the prices low is the ultra high performance of new cars today. Back in 1985, I don't think anyone could have predicted a stock 638 horsepower Corvette.

2007xl50

I agree, but sometimes I am even shocked by how many are really out there.

Van Nuys born

Thank's for that answer...... An interesting window in time looking back now.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

It's crazy insane, and has never been like this before. Over the last year, you have been able to find about 6-10 Third Gens with less than 25,000 miles on ebay on any given day.

I attribute it not so much to speculation as to the fact that so many were built and enough people used them as second cars, meaning they'd see a couple thousand miles a year. Maybe it reached a point in the mid-1990s where they then started thinking the car would be valuable with low miles and completely mothballed them.

My theory is that the economy has gotten to the point to where it's forcing people's hands to get rid of their "toys." The prices aren't high as a result of the sheer number of cars now available but, still, 10-12k in cold cash from a car that has been paid off for decades and just sitting in the garage is very tempting to a struggling family I bet.

So that's why you're seeing it. I don't have any other explanation as to why you didn't see this in 2005-08 but do so routinely now.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I think there are a few things contributing to this. For one, the cars are just now getting into the 25 year "classic" zone and some bought them for investment think it's time to sell. Another thing is that a lot of long term owners are getting old and have lost interest in the cars or feel economic pressures to sell. And lastly, some of the long term owners are dying and leaving the cars to the kids or family who ether know nothing or care nothing about the cars and are selling them. Any way you look at it, it's probably a good time to find that low mileage dream 3dr gen if you can afford it.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

Bought an 89 GTA last fall with 25K miles. Price was right and the guy wanted to get it out of his garage. Easiest car I have ever bought. Felt like I stole it from him...

I know what you are saying, it is weird how many have been available lately. Used to be hard to find one with low mileage.

I saw an 87 GTA with 16K miles for $12K~! Beautiful car! And the guy wanted to deal!

I've been looking for an 88-92 GTA as a nice summer daily driver and there are a lot of them out there with 50-60K miles. Granted, it isn't a low mileage car like you guys are talking about, but I am surprised to see how many of these cars are out there for sale. Cheap also!

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

As of right now, there are 9 Camaros and 6 Firebirds with < 30k on them on ebay. 15 cars. Wow.

3rdgenparts

iTrader: (8)

That or a 300HP V6 Camaro

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

I know, and the other thing that blows me away are how many really low mileage Turbo Trans Ams are out there. Don't remember where I saw it, but there was one with about 3K miles on it!

Here is another one that will blow you away:. When I was 18 I saw this red 92 Formula with cool wheels at the local car show. Turns out, it was my first exposure to a Firehawk, it only had 3K miles on it. The owner lived literally a half mile from my house growing up. I called him a few days later and he let me sit in it/take pictures and gave me a ride in it. I was blown away. You can imagine the impression that Firehawk made on an 18 yr old boy with a ratted out third gen. It was years later when I realized how special that day/car was. Fast FWD 10 yrs when I had money and I called him looking for that Hawk. It had been traded to the local Pontiac dealer for a new Mercedes and he disclosed by accident what they had given him for it. The dealer wanted $50K for it and I told them to pack sand, offered $40K for it and they wouldn't budge. They were still going to make a profit. Lost track of that car afterward...often wonder what happened to it, it only had 3.5K miles on it the last time I saw it.

We are living in great times to buy these low mile cars up.

LHernandezJr

...

2007xl50

When I got my 87 TA last year with only 49K on it I thought it had crazy low miles on it, but now it's seem like nothing. I'm still going to keep the miles down, but kinda makes the 50-70k mile cars look like crap when you see all the sub 30K mileage cars out there.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

Hell, mine had 66,000 miles on it, how do you think I feel? It's probably worth about a hundred bucks if I wanted to sell it at this point, haha!

In some ways, I'd prefer a nice 50-70k mile car though, as you're not afraid to drive it. If you buy a 25,000 mile car, one year of average driving will tank its value -- though this is tempered a bit by the fact that I probably could get a 25,000 mile car for less than 10 grand now. However, cars in the 50-70k range are low mile enough to still be nice but not so low as to have storage issues as so many super low mile cars do.

StevenB L98/LS1

when i bought my 91 T/A with 69K original miles in 07, i thought was doing pretty good until about 2 years ago ive just been seeing thousands of low mileage third gens on ebay just selling for great prices with way low miles compared to mine. I paid $4500 for the car in 07. And back in 07 it was difficult coming across a low mileage third gen that wasn't beat up to hell and back. And now its just crazy for a few grand more i could have bought a really low mileage car.

Van Nuys born

While I like low miles as much as the next guy...... I find that "who" owned the car is equally important if not more so than the miles.

I've seen same year model cars..... and the one with lower miles was in worse shape. So condition IMO depends on alot of variables with milage just being one of the considerations.

82RZ

^ This.....

And these low mile factory original cars bring the most $$ - always have and always will.

Phenom-1

I know ^, I saw the same video back in 2009.


They cleaned it up to run and sold at auciton for 27 grand.

Jason E

As the regulars on here know, I have enjoyed the low-mileage, reasonably-priced third gen craze as much as anyone. While I sold my 34k LB9/A4 86 TA and 27k LB9/M5 88 TA last year, I am still the very proud owner of a 23k mile 88 L98 IROC...and will remain so. All 3 were bought in 2010-2011, and were not the only examples I could find.

Despite not owning all 3 anymore, I will say that the experience was amazing to be able to drive and feel 3 distinct, new-driving low-mileage thirds gens. It was so cool to own fresh examples of cars I lusted after since I was a little kid. All 3 cars drove very differently, and it wasn't due to wear or mileage differences. From the factory, they were simply set up very differently.

I continue to debate selling my Wrangler (yet another toy) and getting a second lowish-mileage third gen to modify slightly. I would love to put high quality, polished Stainless Works headers, a Stainless Works catback, a nice stereo, 17" wheels/tires and better cross-drilled brakes on an LB9/T5 or L98 third gen...and don't feel I have the guts to do it to my own. While I love my car, it seems sacreligious to tear into a 23k mile cream puff and make mods that may look dated in 10-15 years, when I still happily own the car.

A second one to mess with seems like it might be the ideal thing.

2007xl50

This is a very good point. I'm the 3rd owner of my TA, it has 50,169 on the clock now and I have had it about a year, got it last year with like 49,2**. My car has no rust at all, had new Alt, brakes and newer tires when I got, it ran kinda funny and the fuel pump went a week later. The car had never been tuned up so I did all that as well as the pump. The head lights did not pop up-fixed that, the spoiler is shot and there are little dings and scarches kinda all over so it's not a perfect car. Inside she is about 75-80% perfect. The car is very original for the most part, but the last guy that had the car a large, not in good health 73 year old did not take care of it for the 3 years he had it and let it sit alot without starting it-never washed it and parked it under pine and other trees. My TA is nice, but I have seen cleaner higher mileage 3rd gens than mine.

I love low mileage cars, but I don't like owning them in a way as I feel bad about putting miles on them and killing the value. Like I said my car is not crazy low miles, but still try not to rack up a ton. Now my RS has alomt 109K on her so I don't care how many miles I put on her and don't car to keep her original at all.

86TA355SR

iTrader: (1)

I couldn't agree more! That is why I am searching for a 50-70K mile GTA to drive during the summer!

Well said. That to me is more important than the miles. For example, I looked at a nice 88 GTA yesterday with 53K miles, all original. It was straight as an arrow with not a dent or paint scuff on it. It looked like a new car. Interior was the same, I asked the guy (who is 77) if it had been painted or interior replaced. He said no, I believe him...paint was factory thick with the gauge. He was original owner and took great care of it. I agree with him.

Like said above, that defeats the fun of owning them.

I agree. Just my opinion. That is why I respect the preserved examples like the above GTA I talked about. I want one I can modify and run hard. The guy was amazed when I told him it was too nice for my purpose and I was going to pass on it. Someone will buy it who wants to keep it original and hold onto it.

82RZ

Gents,

I have owned a number of low mile 3rd gen Camaros and have lost some money and made some money on them. But it really doesn't matter because I Enjoyed every one of them - either as a 'Driver' or a 'Garage Queen'.

Enjoying/Having Fun with your car is in the eyes of the beholder. For Example:

I own a 2001 Dale Earnhardt Sr. Intimidator SS Camaro. Only 83 were built and mine is # 38 in the series. It sits in Floyd Garrett's Muscle Car Museum with 296 Original miles.

www.musclecarmuseum.com

People have asked me how can I enjoy the car sitting in a museum? Easy answer - its Paid For and I have the title. ........

Enclosed are photos of it.......

Enjoy Your Cars(s).

LHernandezJr

...

82RZ

Thank You Mr. Luis......

Its called 'Fat Fingers' with Hard Working Callus on them! You Got Any?

Funny thing is, the URL worked on my end every time!

In any case, Thanks for the reply.....

majobis

iTrader: (3)

Well, I'll be a pessimist.....keep in mind that on the Camaro, the odometer rolls back around once 100k is reached. Although someone may advertise "only 58,000 miles"!, there's a very strong - and more likely possibility- that it's really 158k. Everyone likes to scrutinize ads that claim to be Irocs when the car has a different nose, color coded headlight buckets, wrong taillights, wrong rims, wrong decal location etc., but for some reason, the possibility of inaccurate mileage doesn't seem to get argued as much and short of a clone accusation, I consider accurate mileage to be just as important.

Jason E

That's because some jackass like me doesn't always take the time to point it out

There are a million ways to tell, say, 58k vs. 158k on a car with as lousy of build quality as third gens...

On the outside/chassis...

1) Rattles
2) Looseness of side windows
3) Wear of door hinges
4) Sandblasting of cornering lights

Now go inside...

1) White marking worn off of every switch you put your hands on (yellow if its 90-92)
2) Outter seat bolster wear
3) Speed with which things like power windows and door locks work (occasionally this tells nothing, as the low miler may have originals and the high miler probably has replacements that work better!)
4) Wear on gas and brake pedals.

8 easy-to-see things, and we haven't even taken it of park yet!! I've owned 6 third gens that had, when I purchased them, 22k, 25k, 30k, 56k, 102k and 107k.

You could be a passenger, blindfolded, and tell if you were in a low or high miler

2007xl50

I agree with Jason 100%. Now my TA is a WS6, but still it has 50K and my RS has almost 109K-it's night and day differance drving them and power has nothing to do with it. I also drove an 86 Z28 that had 133k and that one makes my RS seem like a new car and the Z28 was not in all that bad of shape.

KMK454

As time progresses, ownership history and preservation/restoration will eventually trump low-mileage.

Wear and tear due to prolonged exposure to the elements catches up with all automobiles no matter what effort we take to preserve them. We're at that sweet spot with thirdgens where low-mileage cars are still very presentable and reliable despite having mostly all original components. That's probably why a good number are coming out of the woodwork and going on ebay.

Move forward 20 more years and are you really going to want that sub-10k mile thirdgen where everything is original, dry rotting, faded, and practically fused together? You're probably going to want the car that has been driven some, lovingly cared for and partially restored along the way (or completely restored all at once). Look at firstgen Camaros for reference; the desirable ones are those that have been restored to original condition. The rare low-mile barn find is desirable because it will be easier to restore due to having all of its original parts in one spot.

Van Nuys born

Another factor bringing these cars to market may well be getting them to pass emissions. If you are going to keep them registered they will need emissions testing. People generally don't like spending money on stuff that they don't use much, or even if they do. So wondering if the car is going to continue to pass the tests might also be contributing to the cars coming to market.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

These cars are getting old enough (>25 years) to be exempt from emissions test in many states.

Van Nuys born

That's so cool if your in a State with those smog laws. Here it's 1975 or older, and I don't think that's changing?

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

I know back in 2006 I bought an 89 Iroc Z28 5 speed with 35,000 miles, 2 owner car with all the paperwork. Paid around $7k for it, if I remember correctly.
3 months later, we moved to Colorado. I drove it clear across the country. Had bank loan in place, all set, then about 2 weeks before closing, bank decided it wanted more money down. So I sold it, and drove it to Salt Lake City UT, to it's new owner. I miss that car, and wish I knew if he still had it.

Van Nuys born

^ The 5 speed in the 89 I just bought is what makes the car for me..... Well that and all the other goodies . This is a car that is filling a void of a High School memory. I would ride shotgun in a good friends 1963 1/2 Ford Falcon Sprint w 260 & 4 speed, and then that car went away and an L79 66 Nova took its place. The 89 IROC fills a void between those two cars for me I guess.We had a blast in those cars. Fwy on ramps were fair game

82RZ

True! However, soon - ALL states will require that all vehicles have in place some form of the emissions equipment it came from the factory with. Wheather it works or not is any story.......

Call me a Puriest, but I will NOT purchase/own a vehicle if doesn't have some form of the factory emissions equipment on it.

Van Nuys born

OK, car guys...... question, Do you think this may have been the height of this type of activity looking back.... the later 1980's ?
Where lot's of people went out and bought interesting cars and socked them away...or drove them very little ?

And were the Camaro Z28 and Formula Firebird the main focus of this activity..... or do you see other brands and models that would fall into this collection or time warp ?


Edit: this thread needs pictures of low mile cars... post them up, please.

rawley2

I would have said the IROC-Z and GTA Trans Am...

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

Not just F bodies. I have seen more C4 Vette's on the road in the last year than I have seen in the previous 10 years combined.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I see quite a few low mile C4's coming up on the big car auctions too.

rawley2

And they are priced right. There is a yellow vert for sale by me now for $7,500

I am trying real hard not to go look at it.

FinallyGotMyZ

Wow, those are some low mileage numbers. I thought 118,000 on the '86 I just bought was good.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

I just don't know how convinced I am on this whole sock away thing. I'm not saying I completely discount that but also consider the sheer number of these built coupled with their likelihood to have served as a second" toy" car. That could also account for all the low milers out there.

I mean, Turbo TA, Regal GN, even SVO 'Stang? Ok, I see it. But a regular IROC built in the 10s of thousands? I find it hard to believe anyone would have seen that as their retirement. And if that is true, why is everyone dumping them for little money?

rawley2

If you look at the 60s production numbers compared to the 80s they are about the same. Less people lived in the 60s so....

I think as more get parted out and crashed they will go up. When I was in high school I bought my 72 dodge charger for $300 with a 440. That was 1986. What would it sell for today.

Van Nuys born

Well, it is likely that some of the cars being sold with low miles speedos have rolled over.... but those will be easy to spot.... and it shoud show up on DMV records. I think I've seen one recently that clearly had more than the listed miles.

As far as people socking them away..... They must have... or just drove them very little because their on ebay all the time.
Like "Eseibel67' stated in the second post... the mood was right for this type of activity. And something I noticed over the years is alot of people do like others.
The V8 possibly going away scare might have been enough to trigger it.

Anybody have anything published from the 80's that mentions the V8 possible going away ?
I do remember hearing that back then.

johnnyride

iTrader: (3)

Here's my low-mileage Third-Gen. It has 36,000 miles on it. I paid $6,900 in 2009.

Van Nuys born

How many low mile examples are really out there ? the numbers might not be that high. Alot of them end up on ebay with many being relisted, so on any given week some of the stock has been for sale for awhile.

The supply of low mile cars might not be as high as it appears ? If 100 low mile cars come to market over a few months that would be enought to seem like alot when it's only 100 cars.

scottmoyer

What you are all forgetting is that the 80's was pushing for front wheel drive and V6. The Ford Probe was supposed to the replacement for the Mustang until the Mustang community spoke up. The only rear drive cars in the 90s were the Camaros, Firebirds and Mustangs. People socked these cars away because they could. During the 60's, people thought of their car as transportation and they rotted away within a few years. During the 80s, people didn't want the car to rot away, so they didn't drive them in all weather conditions. The 80s had a different mentality and times were much better than they are today.

thirdchance

I'll tell you why there are so many low mileage 3rd Gens out there.....I had factory order 1985 and 1986 Irocs and the dealer couldn't keep them running!!!

scottmoyer

Well, that doesn't make any sense since there are so many '85 and '86s on this forum that are running! And the fact that we have so many 82-92 cars still running 20-30 years later doesn't back up your statement.

Van Nuys born

Here's an 82 4speed Z28 w/ 50k miles... one owner.

What 4 speed did they use in these ?

http://ventura.craigslist.org/cto/3694355525.html

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

A Borg Warner T10 transmission. 1982 was the last year that you could get a 4-speed manual trans in an F-body from the factory.

Starting in 1983 all manual transmission F-bodies came with T-5 transmissions.

daveb123

Don't forget the later 82 4-speeds were Saginaws- Reverse down to the left.