I was a bit disappointed that there was no mention of the infamous 'Southern Doctor' this time around.

 

I contacted the seller and informed him of his misrepresentation. He stands firm that the DX3 is a stripe/decal and louvered hood delete option. I told him that the DX3 is only a $60 savings. All of the other incorrect items listed above make this a Sport Coupe. I'm not sure why he is so adamant that it isn't when he is guaranteeing the sale! I'd like someone to buy the car, and then tell this guy that they were duped and sell the car back to him, but with a huge bill attached for travel expenses and such.

 

Everyone has found way too many unusual things that say this car isn't an Iroc or even a wrecked Iroc that somebody pieced together so badly that it looks more like a Sport Coupe.

Has anybody asked the seller for a picture of the RPOs? If anybody is lucky enough to get the seller to show it to them please post it.

Here are the things I would have to see to be convinced it is an Iroc that got pieced back together poorly.

I would have to at least see RPO CZA2 for the IROC-Z convertible with power windows, locks, and no power mirrors, deluxe interior on its SPID, but the ad says power seat? Only the CZA3 had all the power options. Along with RPO Z28, RPO 822 for grey leather paneled/cloth seats which are visible on the rear seats available in only 1988 and 89 and no RPO C60 on it for the rear window defogger since convertibles didn't come with these. That's why there isn't a switch on the dash of this car for a defogger, only a delete panel which is correct for convertibles.

I bring these things up because SPID sheets and the RPOs on these have been known to be reproduced and the fraudulent ones contain errors.

I'll feel bad for anyone that ends up buying this car thinking it is an Iroc if the seller doesn't produce documentation to prove what he says in his ad. Buyer beware!!!

 

Ok, the seller responded to me that I should check thirdgen.org for details on the DX3 option!!!!

He also sent me a link to the decodethis .com site that says it's an IROC-Z. What he's not getting is that the decodethis site also says the car has 245-60 series tires. He is misinformed.

 

Yes

Getting the same dog and pony show as Scott. He clearly doesn't want to show the RPO's since it will burst his little bubble.

 

The decodethis.com website also says he has two transmissions. I went to the decodethis website and entered the VIN of a know 1988 Sport Coupe and it came back as an IROC-Z. I then checked with an '89 RS and it also came back as an IROC-Z. Obviously decodethis sucks!!

 

Good job Scott! Now get the RPOs from the guy and we can get to the bottom of this BS.

 

This thread is kind of comical. There are way too many obvious signs that this car isn't what it is being represented as. I laughed out loud when I read the seller told Scott to check TGO about the DX3 option.

I see listings all the time where people list any third gen as an "IROC-Z" -- even pre-85s. This seller fits comfortably within that group of people who have no clue.

 

He told Scott to check thirdgen.org!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ok, I got a final email from this jack-off. Here is my final email to him and from him.

To: John Griffin <carnut3835@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: 1988 Chevrolet Camaro IROC Z convertible VIN 1G1FP31E3JL151375 - Free Chevrolet Camaro VIN Decoder

John,
I ran another 1988 Camaro Sport Coupe through the decodethis website and it is also marked as an IROC-Z, but is clearly a Sport Coupe. You cannot rely on these carfax/decodethis/whatever sites.

Here is the VIN I ran, 1G1FP31E4JL157444. I found it currently on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988-...item4608bbcb94. I also looked up a 1989 Camaro RS and decodethis.com says it's an IROC-Z. I did notice that it also says you have 245-50/16 tires and 5 speed manual/4 speed automatic. Not sure how you can have both transmissions, but you don't have 16" tires.

Sorry for the bad news, but I thought you should know.

Scott


It's not bad news for me because I just took a deposit on it, you don't have the knowledge to be able to
document cars. There is so many things that truly document it's status, such as MPH is 115 which is iroc
specific, dash is iroc specific, rear stabilizer bar on the rear suspension etc. etc. It's sold so it doesn't
make a diferrence. Good luck finding a factory ordered Iroc with a 5 speed. The vin doesn't lie and any
sticker or window sticker can be duplicated.

 

Ok, I sent him another email. I couldn't resist!!!

John,
Based on your response, I hope you get sued for misrepresentation since I know you have been contacted by many people about this. This also explains why your eBay reputation was at 33% before you created a new account.

As for the knowledge to document these cars, I believe I have more knowledge of them than you ever will. You mentioned that I should go to thirdgen.org to learn about the DX3 option. For your information, I have been on Thirdgen.org as a member since 2000 and I am the moderator of the History/Originality forum. I have been in the acknowledgements of Camaro books, including "Standard Catalog of Camaro" by Krause Publications. I have been judging Camaros in "Original Class" and "Modified Class" for 1000 points scale for 12 years now. My car has been in a number of books and magazines and will soon be in "Muscle Machines", by Hemmings. I think I can safely say that I DO have the knowledge to document cars.

Your lack of knowledge is astounding. The 115 mph speedo is not IROC-Z specific. Since you have this speedo in a non IROC-Z car, I believe it's safe to say that you have no idea what you're selling. The dash is also not IROC-Z specific. The same dash was used in the base Camaro as was the IROC-Z. The only Camaro to get a specific dash, was the Berlinetta. Also, the VIN doesn't tell you anything about the model, except if it's a coupe or convertible. In certain circumstances, the engine code can help as certain engines weren't available except in a certain model, but in your case, absolutely nothing about the VIN tells you what you have.

I look forward to the buyer contacting me for information to support his legal case against you.

Scott

 

The sale is fine, Scott. Along with the car, the buyer receives a 50 gallon barrel of Vaseline.

JamesC

 

..and the thread just keeps getting better. That was a high road response to the seller Scott. Not sure I would have been as diplomatic. That guy is a tool. I hope whomever bought that car goes after him.

 

Ya I wasn't, I sent a nice reply that I wanted to see RPO and would take nothing else. He said I was stupid and it went down here from there. Exchanged couple very nasty e-mails back and forth , he then went into my spam filter since he kept going on and on how I was stupid and ignorant.

 

His response to me is listed below. I guess this guy IS an expert and I need to rethink what I thought I know. He had a group of guys that came to verify the authenticity of the car by numbers. Gee, I'm glad they decoded the engine, trans and rear to determine it's an IROC-Z. I never knew the engine, trans and rear on this car decodes this as an IROC-Z. Back to schools for me since I was just schooled by an expert!

If your that confiident put up or shut up it's an authentic factory ordered Iroc Z convertible just admit your
wrong. Ive been playing with camaros since the 1967 that generation was some what hard to prove as I
have had to contact Jerry Mcneish for additional info. If your reccomending to anybody just to use the RPO
sticker in the center console your wrong. I sold 6 years ago a number matching 69 z/28 with rally sport
option, console gauges for a 100 grand ! I think I know a little bit about documenting cars, the buyer brought
5 people to verify every casting # , stamping etc. So please go away we are talking about a 5 thousand
dollar car not a ferrari. Call your insurance company on monday and give them the vin see what they tell
you the car is.

 

Buyers that skip the due diligence get duped all the time because they thought they bought a Z28/IROC/GTA/L98 or whatever, but actally bought something less. When the new owner finds out the truth, he's not going take legal action, it's just too much trouble for $5k car. Seller pretty much says as much.

Also, even though the seller and the experts here know he's lying, the seller may have a legal defense. He has his "decode" document that says IROC, and he can present this as proof that he was presenting facts to the buyer. That's all he has and he would just plead ignorance on the other mountain of facts against him.

No doubt the new owner will stumble across TGO, hopefully he will find this discussion. Could be interesting with all the free help on his side!

 

Even if someone was just looking at an L03 powered sport coupe or Camaro RS model there are a lot of better examples on the market place that haven't been "tweaked" like the car in this ebay add has been.

 

If we have a member who would be willing to donate 50 bucks towards a build sheet from GM Media Archives for this car, that would be hilarious. Unfortunately he would deny that too.

Does this happen a lot with classic/older cars? Im only in my 20s and wonder if this kind of stuff happens with other old cars back in the day too? People trying to pass of low end models for high end models when everyone and their brother in the community know theyre wrong with proof? It makes me mad and hurts the collector car buying community as a whole IMO.

 

Ya, man. It mostly happens with older stuff because we're talking about bigger $. Buick GS is actually a Skylark, 4-4-2 is actually a Cutlass, SS396 Camaro is actually a base inline 6 Camaro. In many cases, VIN # doesn't prove very much back in the old days, only documents can prove the car is as represented. That's why original bills of sale and protect-o-plates help increase a car's value. The SPID sticker on 84+ third gens make it easier to prove or disprove the truth. With the older stuff, it's getting to be very acceptable to sell a car as a clone - as long as it's disclosed.

 

That's the problem with clones. It's represented as a clone when first put together and sold. But the honesty trail soon gets muddy because someone down the line will "forget" to tell a buyer it's a clone. From that point on, it's the real deal for the uninformed. Then stuff like this thread happens.

Myself, I have a basic knowledge of what's what but I need to do more homework if I were ever on the market for a 3rd Gen again. I got lucky the first time, going in partially blind just by looking for features I wanted.

 

FYI, lowballing him seems to get a response acknowledging $2500 as what he'll take.

I offered slightly less.

 

All of that being said, I don't think the final sale price of $2400 (if completed) is that bad a price for a 5 speed convertible.

I do notice he never said the AC actually worked....

 

Eh... $2400 is a little high.... but definitely not much. Im sure blue book on it as a sport coupe would be more... maybe? But its such a butt ugly car... Blue book doenst account for that.

 

It's baaaaaaaaack ....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAMAR...item2325716d0d

Guess that first sale didn't work out. Duh.

 

Good eye! Same location as last time --> Pawleys Island, South Carolina, United States, but a new Ebay user ID.

Check out the feedback from the original Ebay sale:
Nothing in desciption was true watch out stay away from this crook

 

Ok I'm not at all well versed on this stuff like scott but, arent the 15 inch base wheels a dead giveaway that it isnt an Iroc?

 

Depends on the year. The wheels in the above listing came on some IROC's in 1988. In 89 some IROC's came with these 15" rims, which looked just like the 16" versions -->
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camaro-Iroc-...49bae9&vxp=mtr

 

Yea I've heard of the ones in the link being on the 89's but nothing about those ugly base wheels getting put on an Iroc. Were they common on them, because I've never seen an Iroc with those 15's before?

 

The 1988 model year was the first year that Chevrolet minimized it's model lineup. In 1987, you could have a Sport Coupe, LT, RS, Z28 and IROC-Z. In 1988, they reduced the lineup to Sport Coupe and Z28(IROC-Z). Because of the lack of other models, they created base model IROC-Zs that would compare with the previous year Z28s. So you could get a 1988 IROC-Z, with the base V8, base interior and base rims. The upgraded rims became the 16". Much like the '87 which had the Z28 with 15" rims and the IROC-Z with 16". By 1989, the new RS was out and took the base 15" rims and the IROC-Z now came available with 15" IROC rims or 16" IROC rims.

 

Best solution is to ask the seller to post a clear, legible picture of the RPO sticker, along with a clear, legible picture of the VIN. I suspect this car as well (especially his claim of a "rare" non-louvered hood IROC-Z with the stripe delete option), but without verifying those two items he can claim anything he wants, and it's simply caveat emptor. However, if he IS trying to scam people, then who better than the Thirdgen.org community to put a stop to it?

 

Read the description closely. He says something to the effect of an autocheck or vin decoder is the only way to tell if it is a real IROC-Z and not by some silly sticker in the console.

We tried. He will never post the RPO, even though we all know it is not an IROC-Z. He either doesnt want to accept the fact that its not authentic, or he is trying to rip people off on ebay.

I dont know if I should feel sorry for the people who are bidding on this car thinking they are getting an authentic IROC-Z convertible, but it doesnt take a detective, sometimes looking at similar IROCs for sale on ebay and that can reveal some clues that authentic cars have differences that this car doesnt.

 

Then the only other option is to keep flagging him to Ebay for fraud. If they find he is trying to sell a vehicle misrepresented as something that it is not, they'll nail him. Ebay is pretty vigilant about keeping their image clean by cracking down on and prosecuting scammers, but it takes people reporting them for them to be caught.

 

One of my friends had an 88 iroc with the 305 tpi and auto that had the base 15 inch gray 5 spoke wheels on it. I would say its not very often you would see one. Its the only iroc I've ever seen with the base wheels. As for the ebay listing, this car is just a base sc vert. Too many tell tale signs its a base sc. This idiot knows its a base sc but trying to sell it as an iroc. Thats why he wont show anyone the spid label. Any good seller will give you what info or pic you want if you are interested in buying a car.

 

My '88 IROC-Z has the base wheel option, but they were replaced at some point with aftermarket rims. 1988 was the first year to make the IROC rims optional.

 

I wish there was a comments section at the bottom of ebay listings. The reserve is off and its gonna sell.

I feel bad for the person thinking they are getting a real IROC-Z. I hope they become a member on this forum so they can see what has transpired here...

 

Do you think he'll ever take pix of the front seats w/o the covers, so we can see their real condition ? ;o) This is fun !

 

Seems he just received a negative rating on the new username from someone who looked at it in person. Wow.

 

Wow, Ebay Motors is nice! Took me all of 5 minutes to call in, report the listing, they looked at it with me on the phone, I explained I was a member of thirdgen.org, told them about our concerns, about the e-mail conversations one of our moderators has been having with the seller, the fact that the seller has been repeatedly informed that he is misrepresenting the item and refusing to show the requested RPO code proof of his claims, and that the vehicle has been repeatedly re-posted as the same fraudulent listing. Their fraud division is going to investigate it, and they have all the info on it.

 

ill bet this car is a retag! the VIN probably is from an iroc....rest of the car, not so much

 

Fleabay fraud division investigating.................What a LAUGH !

They could give a RIP and give you plenty of lip service yet do NOTHING except
collect their fees. As long as the seller has a good credit card number to pay for
his listing add ons and paypal to collect they could care LESS!

I went round and round with a clown with multiple user names screwing me (and
others) with shill bidding and not paying on NOS Olds parts !
Olds guys beware of K Reichart in Georgia!

 

No such issue. The website that he's using to say that it's an IROC-Z said that a known RS is also an IROC-Z. These companies are worthless and have been as such. Read the posts earlier and you'll see that I checked multiple known non IROC-Z cars on the decodethis.com site and they all came back as IROC-Zs. Such a waste.

 

Iroc or not I'd run away from that one.

 

I went to decodethis site just for giggles and plugged MY vin in there;





Baaahahahahaha !!!!!

I can't tell it was converted to RWD......

 

Just for everyones info, the car is removed from eBay and the users account is no longer active. eBay did act on this.

 

 

IROC with a TBI? Yeah right...

 

Still for sale, same seller, new account id with only 1 feedback
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Iroc-...item19d96eff27

 

Yep. Still wont send RPO codes via eBay messages. Dont know if I should feel sorry for the bidders or be mad at them for not doing research...

 

Feel sorry for who buys it. Reserve is met and its at 3950.00 right now. I wouldnt give any more than 2000.00 for it with the mileage and condition its in.

 

Looks like the guy who bought it didnt take it. And he left a very interesting feedback on the account. Its back on ebay again too.