86WS6

iTrader: (1)

I managed to luck up on an all original 82 WS7 TA with 24,000 actual miles. The car is home, and I am learning about it. She is very clean and original down to the tires. It has been a while since I drove an 82, and those things are really slugs. 145 HP, Turbo 200C, a 10 bolt posi with 3:23 gears, and you get the picture... Coming home from the tag office, a farm tractor passed me like I was standing still. The driver looked p***ed because I was holding up traffic... The folks at Hawks' Thirdgen suggested doing an LS conversion on the car. Kyle Hawks suggested that a low mileage car works best for a conversion. The car is like new, and would be almost new car with an LS, maybe a 6 speed, and something like a Mosier diff. It could be done to keep it's stock look. It would be a whole bunch of fun, however the car would never be original again. My plan is to pick up a clean highmileage mostly original car with no rust, and no body damage to do an LS conversion. Something that would not elicit moans and groans about ruining the originality. Lets hear some ideas?

oldtimer

At the end of the day, it is still YOUR car. You can cut that bastard in half if it suits you. Do with it what you want to. The car would make a wonderful base for all kinds of mods, limited to your imagination and budget. I kinda like the "day two" types of restos being done on older muscle cars now. Instead of strict oem, they are employing carbs, headers, wheels, etc. that would have been common mods to those cars, "back in the day". That could work with this TA. I love the LS swaps, but believe that they have lost plenty of their uniqueness, now that it has become the thing to do with SO many cars. Keep in mind that traditional sbc development has been substantial and ongoing, despite the hot LS series stealing all the magazine press in the last few years. How about a 406 Dart SHP sbc with a great set of Dart, AFR, etc. heads in 305 dress? Toss on a good intake, Holley, and a set of long tubes. Take it off the computer with a MSD hei. Build a thm 350 or 700 with all the good parts, and bolster the 10 bolt with what you can. Presto, an easy 450 horse, period correct-looking hot small block equipped 82 TA. From slug to street sweeper ala mid eighties style. Just like back in the day, only better. Oldtimer.

cIaRmOaCrZo

i liked where you were going toward the end of your post. finding something else to do the ls swap. no matter how good a canidate this car would be for something as exstensive as an ls conversion, just remember a car is only original ONCE. maby you would indeed enjoy the car modded more, or you could could have regret another day down the road when owning an all original is more enjoyable. i dont know man lol. i could like a car either way, but an ls swapped car would be, and IS easier to find now than a 20k original gem. period

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Leave it as it is. It is a time capsule. You can find plenty of other candidates to do that to. They are only original once and yours is one of the best examples out there. You will regret it.

blackbmagic

At the end of the day, at least today, the car is going to be worth more modified (if done right) than it will be stock.

Upgrade the motor to a newer more reliable power plant like a simple LS1

Manuals usually sell quicker and fetch a bit more $ so a t56 would mount up real nice to that LS1.

Upgrade the flimsy 7.5" rear to something a little newer and nicer, moser and strange make some real nice stuff and not as heavy as those ford 9" rears.

Brakes on these cars could use ground up modification. They stop real well but only when the primitive system works right. Go with a new master, adjustable prop valve, SS line kit, hardware, and its always nice to see some big brakes with 12 rotors behind the wheels. Of course depending on what wheels you are using. Definitely one upgrade that's worth its weight in gold.

These cars are known for handling well. Some aftermarket replacement parts such as Tubular K-members, tubular control arms, rear adjustable panhard, LCA's, Torque arms, sway bars and links go a LONG way in making these things handle even tighter. A nice set of shocks and structs are also a nice choice along with some mild drop springs like eibachs.

Exhaust system..cant go wrong with a nice stainless exhaust done right.

Cars can use quite a bit of sound deadening.

Most of that should in fact add to the value of the car considering its done correctly.

Your car the way it sits is nice and worth a hell of alot more than most third gens, but in the scheme of things its not worth a hell of a lot. I think I saw super rare low mile third gen go for 14k on barret jackson. I have seen resto mod third gens go for more on the open market. Now if you had a turbo trans am or something it would be a different story.


STAY AWAY FROM...Cheesy paint schemes, Graphics, outrageous colors, temperamental or race only engine combos, giant hood scoops, giant open free flowing exhausts, cheesy aftermarket lights. Stay away from messing with the wiring inside the vehicle and the harness as much as possible. Also stay away from shoddy work. Make sure everything is done better than the right way.

Once you start adding cheap bolt ons to vintage technology your going to decrease the value of your car. No body wants some one elses headache. No one wants to see some old style, ancient technology, backyard build small block that's been beat on and only runs well sometimes.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

The fact that you're asking people here to talk you out of, to me, means you really don't want to mod it. I can say first hand that there are small differences with the '82s that simply cannot be put back or replaced. So finding an all original 82, IMHO, is somewhat of a rare thing.

At the end of the day, it's your ride. I'm a purist, and I personally have much more admiration and appreciation for older, stock vehicles. I'll echo 82tarecoro -- there are plenty of solid, non-original example to modify.

StevenB L98/LS1

I would not mod it personality. If it was maybe just a base firebird with the same motor. Then yes, but its a trans am, its very hard to find an actually low mileage 82 TA since after 82 nobody wanted an 82 model and most were destroyed. Its a gem to me so i wouldn't think twice about modding it unless the motor gives for some reason, then i would just do old sbc carb build to leave more the car times period intact.

eseibel67

Well I'm one of those keep it all original types. This 82 TA is an exception. It's a beautiful car inside and out, but the drivetrain is just too weak to enjoy the car. A mildly reworked LS1 will triple the HP. A T56, a proper rear axle and some chassis and brake work would transform that thing into a joy to drive. Just keep it stock looking inside and out. Not sure if you can keep the bowling ball hub caps, but it would be really cool if you could.

8t2 z-chev

i'd be temped to do a few mild,period correct modifications to improve the
power of the LG4(didn't really take much to wake up the 305 in my'82
back in the day)so it isn't totally embarassing power wise but is authentic
and retains the charactor of an early third gen T/AIMO,an LS swap is
one of the worst modifications you could do to that car-not as bad as a
4th gen interior swap,but getting there...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Think of it this way--that car has survived for 30 years without being abused, cut up, molested, modified, or hacked up; it's a feat in and of itself that it has survived all of that for this long, with hardly any miles put on it to boot over the years.

Think about how wonky LT1 cars look today--the LS1 cars will look just the same in time, as the LS1 is already old hat going on 15 years old. Sooner or later it'll be whatever the next generation of engines is that becomes cheap enough to be plentiful, then the LS1 cars will look just as wonky. IF you are going to mod it, I guess I would have to say mod it in a period correct way since that will never look out of place.

But, at thirty years old with only 24k unmolested miles, keep it as a stock cruiser.

If you want a candidate to mod, don't do it to a 24k mile car...find a car exactly like mine and go to town.

SR71BLKBRD

iTrader: (1)

I say go for it...Its your car you should do what YOU want..

I want an original Quasar Blue 92 GTA Trans am somewhere along 15 made...If i Found one(when Im out of school)...you better believe Im going to LSX swap the hell out of that sexy thing. my reasoning for chopping up a 92 GTA...JUST CAUSE I CAN.....but that's just my .02

LHernandezJr

What? Were you driving in reverse or something?

Anyway, here's my 2 cents... you ask 1000 people for advice, you'll get 1000 different opinions. Not saying they may be right or wrong, just their opinions.

Do your own thing!

Guess you can call this post opinion number 1001. LOL.

"A farm tractor passed me..." haha. I owned a 1982 Firebird V8 years ago, and raced it against tractors almost every weekend, and I usually won

blackbmagic

So many people refer to modifying as hacking up, molesting, and being abused. When in fact in the hands of a competent mechanic, engineer, or just a mindful car guy is making something nice even better.

Its all comes down to who you are as a person. I know I didn't buy my IROC because I have an crazy love for third gens. I bought it because they are cheap, look nice, have crisp body lines, easy to work on, simple to overpower, there are TONS of aftermarket support, lets not forget about classic car insurance. These reasons in general make me like them a WHOLE lot.

You on the other hand may have bought yours for other reasons.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

WOW, thanks for all of your opinions. The farm tractor joke is an old South Georgia saying for when something is so slow that farmer Brown pulled out and passed me with his John Deere. The car runs decent for what it is, it just does not have a lot of punch for a so-called muscle car. I just need to learn to live with it as it is. My all original 86WS6 with 29K miles may only have 60 more HP, but it feels like a lot more. I have resisted making any changes to the 86 except for a hidden CD player. The 86 will smoke the tires and bark shifting to second. No too shabby for 205 HP. Maybe the difference between the two cars is in the low first gear ratio of a 700R4 versus the first gear of a 200C? Maybe the difference is in engine torque? Maybe it is all of the above. I purchased both of the cars to keep them original. I would probably develop chest pain if either one were modded, although I was considering it on the 82. I have built some unique vehicles in the past. My modded vehicles are usually trucks, like an 88 Silverado CC Dually 4x4 with a BT6 Cummins, SM-465 trans, US Gear 20% two speed spliter, 208 HD transfer case, Dana 80 axles with 4:10 gears, full air lockers, and four wheel disc brakes. It looked stock on the outside. It is good to hear that the LS is not the be-all-end-all of conversions. All I have heard is LS this and LS that... To me a good thirdgen mod option is a soild 350 carbed SB with a built 700 and a nine bolt. Not a 1/4 mile car, but a good driver, and respectable performance on the street. I think that this car will stay original, however those OE tires, hoses and belts are going to have to go. The car is unuseable with all of the rotten rubber stuff that is not supposed to last over five years and needs to get changed. I had the engine connected to a diagnositic monitor and the Computer Command Control is still working. The choke sticks a little, but everything else is functioning within normal parameters. I may install a hidden switch to disconnect the lock-up torque converter, as that is a PIA in the mountains. I still want to build a modded play toy. Maybe a clean 90 to 92 RS with T-tops would be a good choice to build? Thanks to eveyone for thier imput. Charles

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

The car is beautiful! I would say go with the t-top 89 or 90 build!
Or we could trade and you could do a swap in my 89!!! LOL

Phenom-1

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you do that to my dream '92 GTA 5.7 I swear to God by All that is Holy I will be there the Very Next Day just to chop YOUUUUU !!!!! .... up in a Million Pieces However I Want You to look like.......... JUST CAUSE I CAN.....NOT FIND ENOUGH PEOPLE TO TAKE OUT MY RAGE ON.


......

.......



.......


...Again just my 2 Cents Don't modify an Original Survivor just because you feel you can do it like the rest of them that have done it already, or because you feel like your Brave enough to Face the wrath of Originality Psycopathic Freaks like me that will Literally End Your Life for That One Rare Car. I'm not kidding bro, I would Box Muhammad Ali in His 20's if the Prize was that Car. Thank-You and have a nice day

Phenom-1

If I Scared anybody with my Last post and made them double check their doors and windows locks I Apologize, but that's just me, that's just how I feel about F-body of all 5 Gens that are Rare and on their way to be Ultra Rare as Time goes by and more of them get modified by People that get bored with the original and instead of buying one of many swapped ones they feel the desire to do the swap themselves and if they ever decide to sell it because they got bored with that swap, They never put it back to original.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

LOL, Agreed, however I am glad that you are in California and I am 2300 miles away in the NC mountains. That way, if I royally p*** you off you will have some time to calm down before you find me. I'm too old to fight and too fat to run. A car as rare as a 1:15 GTA should be kept stock, however to each thier own. If someone buys it, they can do what they want with it. When I owned my 69 GT-350, a Hugger Orange Drag Pack car (1:8) and 70 GT 350, a factory air equiped powder blue automatic car (1:242), I would not have considering altering those cars in any manner. A friend of mine modded a Shelby vert to the extreme. Both of my ex-Shelby's are now in private collections, and the freind's modified car was salvaged and eventually crushed. Once a car is modified, it is impossible to return it to original condition again. In can be restored, but can't be original. The only reason I considered moding the 82 is that is the worst year for Trans AM performance. After reading what everyone wrote, I believe that my best option is to keep the car original but well maintained so that it can be driven when we want to like we do the 86.

Jason E

puma is right, and there is no point in me saying much more The car has survived 30 years without someone messing with it...leave it be, and enjoy it the way it is.

I don't even want to put an aftermarket exhaust, or even EBC brake pads on my IROC. The only "mod" ever done to the car is a set of tasteful stainless exhaust turndown tips the previous owner added to the factory exhaust. Any car that has survived 24 years and 3 owners unscathed deserves to be left that way

I am not surprised to see you feel the 82 is too slow....realistically, it is. I have never driven an 82, but I have driven a couple other LG4s...speed is not their thing. By the way, your 86 makes less power than you think While even the factory brochure for 86 calls it 205hp, the real rating for 86 is 190hp due to the LB9 getting the LG4 cam for emissions and MPG. Previous 85 Birds that had the 205hp rating used the L69 cam...

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'd pull the drivetrain and put in a 4-500hp turbo ecotec 4banger with a 6speed but leave it stock otherwise. Maaybe widen the rear wheels a inch or 3...

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I think what you said about the 82 being the worst performance Trans Am ever hit me kind of hard.

Maybe you ought to just do a "theme" and keep it stealth. That way it looks 100% original, but in reality its got some of the problems of the day behind it. Its my own personal preference with Trans Ams that they look 100% stock inside and out. The look they definitely got right.

For instance, lets take the engine. Its a 305, POS, dog. Say what you will, everyone knows the truth. There's no reason whatsoever, none, that you can't pull that engine and trans and bag them both, shove them in a crate and preserve them in case you need to sell the car to a collector later. You can easily then start with a good 87-up small block short block. You can use the correct early 80's 305 iron heads that flow well with very little mods. A factory correct Quadrajet intake and carb can be had cheap. Better flowing TPI manifolds and y-pipe. Your low mileage cat and cat back system will be fine for just making a wonderful driver out of the car. Take your original driveshaft and trans crossmember, along with the torque arm and throw those in bags in the crate too. Again, an 87-up transmission, crossmember, driveshaft and torque arm can be had very reasonably priced right from these forums. I know because I have gotten them here before. You pick, auto or standard? I prefer standard which means the shifter plate and pedals go in the crate too. But the auto will go just as easily.

The rear axle? If its mine it goes in the crate. I have been getting rear axles for dirt cheap off of this forum, and for a street car that's all you need. Bag and preserve your original. Pick up a good housing like I did, get a set of LS 3.42 rear gears and a torsen posi off of ebay. Get an axle shaft kit from Summit or Jeg's for the 28 spline parts. Use 89 or newer disk brakes for the rear. I am building that one right now for my car.

My point is, your car will run better due to the nice roller cam instead of the "flat" flat tappet cam that your 305 has in it (I can't tell you how many 305s I've had to replace the cam in from the 78-85 engines) and easily still run well with your stock ECM. Your Quadrajet can easily be tuned to match what you are doing. Your transmission cannot be seen and your interior stays stock and beautiful. Your axle looks OEM, and EVERYTHING JUST BOLTS ON. No crazy mods, cutting this or that, or anything.

I don't see any downsides to doing it this way because you want to drive it, right? Its a Trans Am, and it was meant to be driven in a spirited fashion that sends a thrill up your spine.

If you love your car you will do the mods

Good luck either way, I love the 82-84 Trans Am looks the best. I'm happy you have it, and that this is the discussion to have about it, and not LS engines and 20" wheels hahahha.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I almost forgot, where are the pictures of the 82 T/A? Did I skip over them or are they not here yet?

2007xl50

I say leave it alone. A few years ago I was a mod it guy, but now I love to see an all original low mileage car. I still love modded vehicles and have one right now, but my TA is about 95% original. I would love to restore and mod my TA someday, but right now I don't have the heart to do it. Hell my car has just shy of 50K on the clock and I feel bad everytime I put miles on it LOL! I like the idea of you getting a 91-92 RS T-tops and doing a nice LS/T56 swap in it.

yo soy el warg

I think these are the pictures of the car you are asking about.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-1982-ws6.html

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I can't see any reason to mess with an original car in that good of a condition. If you just have to hot rod one, there are lots of 3rd gen rollers around with reasonably good bodies that you could drop a LS1 into (I'd probable go for a built 383 myself) without destroying a nice original car.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Thanks!

What a beauty! I still would "stealth mod" it though. Starting with that air cleaner. You need to get one of the ones that works with the hood functionally and then mod it for dual snorkel.

With the proper plumbing to make it look 100% OEM of course.

Nice pull, man! Never get rid of it!

kymmee

Since this is the History/Originality section-thats what you need to think about this car. It IS a piece of Pontiac history and it IS original. The 82 cars are not known for ***** to the wall power. You cant have your cake and eat it too. I say leave it alone and find a clean higher mileage one to swap and play with.

You've heard "its only original once" and in your earlier posts this is why you were drawn to the car. You seemed to like the fact it was a clean, low mileage survivor car.

Bottom line-its your car-do as you wish. Seriously though, I dont think there are a lot of clean 1982 birds left-you have 1, I have 2, and 82tarecaro has 1. Seems like the 84 models come up for sale more often. Just my 2 cents.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I'm all for history and originality. That's why my suggestion is to put back to look 100% stock. Looking 100% with better stuff inside is better than 100% original, unless you are being judged in the concourse or pebble beach.

I am fully on board with and absolutely love the way that they look both under the hood and under the car, as well as the exterior and interior being bone stock. As I said, Pontiac nailed it with the T/A as far as style goes. I don't see any improvements to be done with the visuals. What I am suggesting is just liking replacing internal engine parts when you do a rebuild. I would rather have some forged pistons and moly rings inside than the original 1982 El-cheapo cast GM pistons. Its just me, and I only offered an opinion from the standpoint of improved performance and reliability.

I also want to look at that car from every side and angle and be mentally transported to 1982. Trust me, I really do! Sorry if I offended any of the purists. I am with you guys in spirit. I just like the hidden parts to be better.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

It's your car, but it sounds like a real cream puff, so I probably wouldn't mess with it too much.


An LS1 conversion is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo played out, I just couldn't stand to see another one.

Phenom-1

You should keep yourself In better shape bro Lmao

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

It was joke. Everything is realitive: After four back surgeries, 6 fusions, a tendon transplant and foot reconstruction, and a brain tumor, I'm still moving, just not real fast. Even though I qualify for a full disability, I turned it down and manage to work two jobs. I spend my off time entertaining our 11 grandchildren who love to water ski behind our 454 powered sport boat. Grandpa provides the boat, the gas, boat driver, and makes sure that the children play safely. I hike 4 miles each way in mountains three times a week with my assistance dog because I am almost deaf and balance by eyesight due to the tumor. I'm still in the running, I just don't move fast any more. Actually that old 82 fits me pretty well. We are both old, slow, and cranky. The 82 will stay stock and original. She will live for the shows. I am going to look for an appropriate car to mod and make into a nice street cruiser, maybe a built 350 SB Chevy.

Phenom-1

Wow, man how old are you

KMK454

This is always a painful and predictable debate. Nobody wants to "ruin" an original survivor, but at the same time, what better canvas for hot rodding is there? The fun in modifying for most comes from adding performance parts and appearance, not from fixing rust patches, repainting the car, and restoring interiors. There are near-perfect high-mileage cars out there, but they're the rarest of all thirdgens.

I think one of the best things you can do is just drive your car for a while and reflect on it. Originally, I wanted to lower mine and add some wheels, but with time I've come to have a huge appreciation for the car's stockness. It will probably end up staying that way. You may still feel the urge to modify it. The problem is, your 82 will never be fast unless you do something drastic.

You can always modify things that people won't see. Nobody is going to make a big deal if you replace all of your bushings and end links with polyurethane (does anybody actualy make stock replacements?). Nobody will notice if your ride height is the same but with better springs and struts. Most won't mind if your exhaust note sounds better as long as you only change the muffler and leave the system looking stock. Better speakers mounted in factory locations never hurt, and a hidden audio input for an MP3 player is always nice.

I like LSx conversions, but I'd like to see more TPI builds. Take an LB9 or L98 and optimize the thing with a bunch of subtle modifications and refinements. Find a bunch of old period-correct aftermarket parts and use those. Fabricate your own. That would be neat.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

56, but high mileage.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Hi Kurt, I remember your car from G-15. You have a perfect example of a completely stock pristine police package Camaro with very low mileage. That is one awesome car!

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Jason, if I struck a nerve with the slow comments, sorry. I always value your opinions. The slow comment was just an observation. For me slow does not mean junk, and it does not mean that I hate the car. It just means slow, nothing more or nothing less. The car is a survivior a significant part of F-body and of Thirdgen history. Back in the day I owned three 83's, a WS6, WS7, and a base model TA with T-tops. I owned the the base model from September 1983 to May 2003. The car looked a lot like the 82, but had the 14 inch Turbo Fin wheels with the small caps like the SE's had. It was totally stock, and had 42K miles on it when I sold it in 03. It was probably the cleanest 83 in existance, as it was babied from day one to the day of sale. The first wife named it Baby. I think that she was jealous. I remembered the 83 as quite the cruiser. Not a hot rod, but very drivable and fun. The 700R4 transmission was a huge upgrade in 83 from the Turbo200C in the 82's, and really helped make up for the difference in the low power engines of the day. Maybe I remember the good ole days that never were... The 82 will remain as built, except for a few repairs and minor restoration items to make it crisp looking. The car has made it 30 years and only has 24K miles on it. It needs to stay like it is. There will not be much of an incentive to drive it, but I will drive it enough to keep it functioning. It should do well at the shows, just due to being original. The two reasons that I had a brief moment of insanity and considered mods is that the car does not offer much excitment behind the wheel, and the folks at Hawks's Thirdgen made the observation that it is a nice canvas to work with. I mostly wanted reinforcement that I am on the correct path by keeping this car a garage/trailer queen.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

To satisfy my need to tinker, I am considering buying a car that belongs to a co-worker. It is a 91 RS V6, all black with T-tops. The car has 117K miles and is rust free. The body is straight, and there have been no major accidents. Since it is a V-6 car and female driven the shell is pretty tight, so the car is a good solid platform. The interior is worn, plastic is good, and it is all black. All of the aero stuff is good and everything is on the car. She is 100% stock. The A/C cools, and everything works. The V-6 runs good, but is starting to smoke a little. I can get this thing cheap, as the owner wants it saved, and knows that I will make something nice out of it. This car is ripe for a restomod!, and will get to live on as a fun driver instead of scrapped like trash as so many thirdgens do. My thoughts are a 350 crate engine, 700R4, and a nine bolt. Keep the outside stock, and the interior mostly stock. Run those 17 inch chrome aftermarket IROC wheels on it. Upgrade the suspension to the equivalent of a WS6 or a Z-28. Not going for a race car, just something that looks good, sounds nice, and is a whole bunch of fun.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

A ZZ4+Holly Stealth Ram TPI+ T56 Tranny, that would be sweet!

oldtimer

You know, you could do just a few basic, easily reversible mods that will add noticeable power to the lg4. I had great success with removing the stock air cleaner, and replacing it with a nice open element unit to let the carb breathe. The Qjet on that thing is, I believe, a 625 cfm unit, but the air cleaner won't flow near that. Take the stock air cleaner off, and roll it upside down with the lid on. You will see that the engine is pulling air through just a small gap between the upper and lower cleaner housings. Terrible for performance. You also have what we called a "turkey pan" cat convertor on that lg4. It is not a brick cat, but a sand filled affair that flows horribly. I used a test pipe back in the day, but, in your case, just clean it out and reinstall, letting the motor breath. I also removed the smog pump belt for reduced drag. Bump you base timing to 10-12 degrees. Presto, an easy 25-50hp. With those mods alone, my 82 changed completely. Stock, it was easily beaten by the Crossfire car of my cousin. From any speed, I lost. Just the air cleaner swap put me on even footing! No bs. After the cat removal and timing bump, I owned his Crossfire. Even giving him the leave, I'd roll by without effort. My fortified little junk lg4 would reach valve float at 5100 or so in high gear about the time the cfi car crossed 4500rpm or so. No contest. No harm done either. Just toss the stock breather back on for the car show, and no one will ever know. Oldtimer.

haisud

MOD it, they are worthless to hold stock, they never increase value only TTA and some rare small product 3rd gen hold value and increase value time do time

Touareg

Nooooooo!

Leave it alone, you have to, that car is to nice to change. It is a great cruiser to go to car shows, and it should be un molested. Much like my 82 with crossfire its no race car, although I will tell you I don't see much difference between the carb'd 82 and the crossfire. At least what I can remember the performance is about the same. I had an 82 about 15 years ago with the LG4.

I don't know about your car but mine will chirp into 2nd gear if I put my foot into it. I would assume the same for you, I think crossfire is 165hp.

Morgan

oldtimer

Morgan, the Crossfire cars were notably quicker than the lg4 cars. My car was a 4 speed manual lg4, and, as I stated, would lose to my cousin's cfi car from any speed when they were all factory stock. Another cousin of mine had the lg4/auto set up, and it was the slowest of the cars. Generally, the Crossfire cars were capable of mid 16sec times in the quarter, while the lg4/manual cars were slower by around .5 sec. Add another .5 sec for the lg4/auto cars. Trap speeds were commonly 82-85 for the cfi cars, around 80 for the 4 speed cars, and probably 78-80 for the lg4/ auto cars. All terribly slow by today's standards, but significantly different from each other at the time. The pecking order on the streets back then clearly put the lg4/auto cars at the bottom of the pack.

Jason E

No offense taken...quite the contrary. I am glad to see you want to leave the car stock. Its a beautiful car, and while it is indeed a little sluggish, to me part of the uniqueness of driving one of these cars is the total experience...the good with the not so good

Frankly, now that I own an LS1 6 speed car, my IROC feels kinda slow. Hell, my LT1 car feels slow in comparison. My point is, something else will always be quicker. I enjoy my 3 cars immensely and compare them more to the era in which they were built than what they compare to today. I fully agree with Charlie, and I've said that before...LT1 swaps look played out, and sooner or later LS1 swaps will too. Its like seeing a 32 Ford with a SBC...so what? Wouldn't it be cooler with the original flathead? At one point, that SBC was the way to go...now it looks lame.

Just my .02, but all these LS1 and LT1 swapped third gens will look lame in 15 years, too Stock is always special...mods just represent the era in which they were modded...

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Jason, I was surprised when you sold your blue 86, the one that looked like my 86, except a hardtop. Our 86 is like a favorite family pet. Since the original owner was a friend and the car has such an unusual history, it would be impossible for me to think about modding it or selling it. Everywhere I take it, it draws a crowd. Maybe the color is part of it? Since it is a Rez car, some members of the tribe monitor it's status, so I feel more like it's steward then the owner. Either way the car has 29K on the clock, and is mostly original. It is stock except for a hidden CD player that plays through an FM modulator into the OE Pontiac Performance Sound system. Ian Kee at Kee Audio just sent me some custom make subwoofers and 4x6 plates that he fitted into the OE speaker boxes. He rebuilt the boxes and added new insulation. They look stock but are much better, and work great with the OE HU and amp. Ian used a little trick of using 2 Ohm subs instead of four Ohm, and they really thump for such small units. We are going to be doing a build tread as soon as the front speakers arrive, also custom made units designed to replace the stock ones. These sort of updates are what I am planning for the 82, stock, but crisp. I read where you wrote once that the 86 cars and older were not everyone's cup of tea due to lack of performance. To serious thirdgen people they are not the best years. When the average Joe sees the cars at a meet or a show, they are something special. As for resale value, I am not interested in making any sort of profit off of these cars. Probably when I die, my family will sell them, however I won't care because I will be dead. The 86 has a waiting list, and the first one on the list will keep it original. I hope that they continue to be preserved, however that is impossible to control. As for where the market will go for these cars in the future, who can really predict. The shear number of units produced will make it a long time before they become rare. The numbers of cars that are scrapped every year makes me wonder if any will be left in a few years? In 1974 I bought a nice navy blue 67 GTO tri-powered 389, 4 speed muncie, vert, with factory air for $900.00 from a used car lot. It was a number 2. The same car now in the same condition would be worth over 50K. I wish I had a whole garage full of them to sell...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

That's cool stuff. Although the CFI was faster bone stock in '82, most of the performance minded guys got the LG4 4 speed and did the the simple mods you mention. Any idea if your cousin's Crossfire had a 2.93 gear or a 3.23 gear?

Phenom-1

My '87 Iroc wasnt a Fast car like a TPI, but it was a great driving experience, It had highway gears, I remember it also had the crappy 85 mph speedo and I maxed it out. I'm pretty sure I hit 105 in it, but it wast a full power options car, it did have power Windows & fog lights but no electric trunk release or electric rear window defroster, just pwr locks and mirrors, with the 700r4 I didn't do a Damned thing to that car, mod wise, I sold it all stock with like 92k miles I don't think I even put 1k miles on it. If I ever find it again I'll buy it back & I'm going to put a 3.23 posi, Flowmaster 80's series 3" catback, Hawk brakes, Brutestop Slotted & drilled rotors, and maybe upgrade the Cam to somethin a little better, but I cant recall if they went roller in 86 or 87.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Roller cams started in 87 the same time the center bolt valve covers were introduced.

2007xl50

86WS6 I like the idea of that 91 RS T-top with a nice SBC and drive line. The 91-91 RS cars are good looking. The idea of 17" Iroc's is not bad. Hope you get the car cheap and make it your own. Leave the TA's stock.

oldtimer

Chazman, I do not remember what gear my cuz had in his Crossfire. I would lean towards the 3.23 on a guess, as it was properly set up otherwise. His was a real looker, in black and gold. Had cfi, custom cloth in camel, t tops, the Conteur seat, and 4 wheel disc brakes with g80. I think it stickered around $16k, while my car was like the one in my avatar colorwise, with 4 speed (Saginaw, not BW, as it was a late build) t tops, the $28 cloth upgrade on the maroon interior, and not much else. He figured he'd duplicate my efforts and achieve similar results with the Crossfire. We put a test pipe in, and fabbed up two chrome air cleaners with a custom base plate. The "word" at high school was that he'd gone and put "2 fours" on the little 305! Well, the cfi cat was already a good flowing piece, and the cfi couldn't pass any more fuel, regardless of air cleaners. From a flat punch, it'd just lean out and stall! Not good. Put the stock air box back on, an it ran fine, but not any faster than stock. The q jet on the lg4 had plenty of extra to give if you let it, but the twin tbi's were all in even in a stock application. Oldtimer.

Jason E

I guess you could say I surprised several people when I sold it, including myself. At the time, the choice was clear...do you keep a pretty 190hp third gen that needs a little here and there, or sell it and for a paltry $3,500 more buy an absolutely flawless, turnkey 10k mile SLP-modified LS1 SS that you've chased after for nine years that your dad is finally ready to sell you?

I only HAD to sell one...which in the end could've just been my red 88 TA. However, as I've said before, my HD Ram had been kicked out of the garage a couple years prior, and I was tired of the thing being dirty all the time and suffering from sitting so much (I have a demo, so the truck moves roughly a day a week, 3,000 miles a year tops). I sacrificed the 86 to make room for the truck...a decision I am ok with today, but often wonder if I should've just bought a lift and kept the 86.

At this point in my life, I have zero time or patience to tinker...and that car would likely need tinkering for some time to sort out every little thing. It was/is beautiful, but sat outside neglected for several years (hence my need to redo it). When I fired it up in March from hibernating for the winter, and the cold start issue reared its ugly head (under 70 degrees, it would take 3-4 tries to keep it running when stone cold...but the cold start injector was fine?)...the A/C stopped working...the power locks stopped working...the RH valve cover started leaking oil onto the y pipe, causing a little smoke on start-up...honestly, I said the hell with it

I like things that are perfect, and I didn't/don't have time to fiddle. I sold it to a great guy in his mid 60s that loves it the way I did. My IROC satisfies my need for third gens at the moment, but I really do hope to find a pampered Firebird/TA to go next to it within a couple years. The IROC is also 100% turnkey perfect, always has been, and if anything crops up I will address it immediately. I guess I only felt the need to keep after one "old one" at that point.

It still amazes me how much better built 4th gens are. I've owned my Z28 for 11 years and close to 40k miles. I've replaced 1 water pump, 1 alternator (neither of which left me stranded), brakes & tires, and uhm...uh...you get the idea