mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

You do have a point!!!

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Yes but the people driving them is what makes some Third gens not deserve to be saved due to the people that drove them being mostly teenagers who want everything done quick and cheap or some that were just abused to hell and just left to rot in their backyard until being sold to a Junk Yard.

Granted in due time with more and more of this happening no matter the trim their gonna be worth to restore or build up to see another one on the road. Even now I know when I get my 86 finished, I would probably not see another on the road in the same condition.

So my input is, No they do not deserve to be saved. If I see a 90 Iroc with rust holes, interior trashed to hell and body more in need of work and then have a spotless V6 Third gen that needs some TLC. I would take the V6 Thirdgen. That being said I am not one that likes to restore anything, my style is doing everything I can to make it look good that you sitll know what it is without overdoing it and make it keep up to todays standards. I would never restore something back to stock form and let it sit around. Maybe when I am older this will change, but not now.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

So......how do you go about changing that?

scottmoyer

I had to remove the posts that I thought were blatantly against TGO policy for language and racist comments. If crap like that continues, I will lock the thread and start handing out a "ban" to the offender. This is unacceptable on TGO and I don't want to see it again.

lt1zr28

I am with you 110%.My hope is that this thread will continue on with out any more issue's.
As there has been alot of good posts.It's a shame that there has to be a bad element in a good thing.

HI85WH1

This is a problem most enthusiasts have.... not enough cash or not enough space to store all theses projects... hence why lots of them get stripped...

I've purchased clean rollers with the intent of putting them back together only to realize space is an issue, or time is... however, when I put them back up for sale, the other enthusiasts want to pay less than 1/2 what I paid. In that situation, the car is going to be parts as its simply worth more that way. Sad situation, but I do this to enjoy the hobby and give others a chance to enoy what I do.. however I dont do charity.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

You start by unstickying the dual exhaust pics thread, and you put a policy in place to not allow cars to be parted out in the classifieds.

This is a tiring discussion, surely I'm not the only one tired of it?

It's every month or every other month, yet the most that can be changed on this website is changing the word "Restoration" to "Originality".

If we actually--as a whole--took proactive steps to pull ourselves up, we might actually accomplish something rather than having the same never ending pissing match about the never ending trail of beaters.

Scott's post showing the nice thirdgens in Minneapolis is my case in point--where are those people? I know the blue IROC is a member here who is from Chanhassen (though I've never seen the car in person, albeit I haven't been to Car Craft Summer Nats in quite a few years), but where are the others? I haven't seen a NICE car in a LONG time on the road here, and I don't seem to see any of these people with nice ones (sans the blue IROC) posting here on this site.

I actually looked at the Northstar Camaro Club's website and saw a few mint thirdgens...but they don't seem to post here. Do you suppose there is some correlation between the stuff that is allowed here and the reason none of those people with the nice cars in Minnesota seem to post here? Purely speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I probably would unsticky the dual (duel?? ) exhaust thread too. It can live on it's own accord without getting the tacit approval that a sticky implies.

I also wouldn't mind some regulation in the way cars to be parted, can be advertized here. On some other makes' sites, you have to show that a car is pretty far gone, before you can advertize it for parts. Of course, you can take a car and part it, and then advertize the parts for sale. That takes more effort though and that's different than just finding a serviceable 3rd gen in a barn, and selling parts off of it until you make a profit, and then junking it.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Over regulation doesn't work - not in society and not on this board. You guys are starting to sound like politicians.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Actually, I generally agree with that. But I do see more than afew saveable cars here (and elsewhere), having afew hundred bucks worth of parts sold off of them and then junked, which is a shame. I don't know how else you can slow that process down.

Linson

yeah, i think that guy might be full of crap. at any rate youre going to see more new Mustangs on the streets, which will increase the odds of seeing dirty, unkept ones. furhermore, women are far more likely to buy a new Mustang than a new Camaro, and women, as we all know, are far less likely to define themselves by - and therefore, obsess over the cleanliness and mechanical condition of their ride.

Linson

dude, WTF? why are you of all people even responding to my post? by briefly looking over your response, i can tell you that you A) appear to continue to completely miss the point on no less than half the points i've made, and B) continue to put words in my mouth and imagine me as taking positions that i do not hold.

i'd be happy to once again clarify my positions, however, until you apologize for these statements:

Quote:

I'm done with you... It's kind of like talking to my dead dog...

and admit that this was hasty, flawed thinking - you know, where you made the assertion that this 16 year 3rd gen veteran (who through experience has learned how to get exactly what he wants from a 3rd gen) is somehow less of an enthusiast than you, because you happened to stumble upon a [non-running?] 6 cylinder model and find it to be a gem:

it would be nice if you would also confess to willfully putting words in my mouth - because i doubt that any sensible person would truly take the things that i've said and leap to the conclusions that you have represented.

i dont know WHY you've acted this way, but you have. anyone who can read would tell you so. if youre willing to be a man and take some ownership and respsibility, i will try to continue to have a conversation with you, but until i see evidence of that, i'm not going to make myself look like an idiot by arguing in circles with you. sorry.

Linson

i want to respond to everything you've said, but its too much to quote, so, i'll just start with this.

a non-running 3rd gen [in someone's back yard] does little if any harm to the public perception of 3rd gens. afterall, the car is in the back yard where no one can see it.

the stereotype that youre illuding to IS outdated. stink bug stance and crap wheels? who still does that? those cars arent still on the road...are they? if you say yes, then where the F do you live? where i live - two cities with a combined population of say...40,000 - i've seen about 10 3rd gens, TOTAL, in the four years i've lived here. 4 nice ones, including mine. a few survivors that desperately need more truly 3rd gen-centric owners, and a couple beaters.

if country bumpkins are even still doing the types of mods that youre talking about, i would have thought that they would have had to move on to 4th gens by now as running 3rd gens have gotten more scarce. i would also think that any car in the hands of such an owner is doomed, and therefore would be suprised to know that they still exist in great numbers - numbers that would allow this 20 year old stereotype to continue.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

personally, i don't think every third-gen deserves to be saved. there were millions of third-gens made over a span of 10 years so most aren't anything special. some are just too far gone (especially in rustbelt states) or completely hacked up by former owners.
i saved one by accident though. in 2001, i bought a 1984 TA for $50 from a friend. he was going to junk it. it still ran though so i thought it would be a good project. i didn't have a few thousand bucks to buy a nice summer cruiser, but figured i could spend money here and there over time and make it into something. it took a few years, but i did eventually get the car looking pretty good. i sold that car in 2008 and am slowly working on another 1984 TA project that has a better body. i'm hoping to make this second car even better than the first one.

before:


after:


i've seen a few posts in this thread complaining about people parting cars and trying to figure out how to stop it. i'm not sure what the problem is. the owner of that car has every right to do whatever they want with it. if you don't like it, then make an offer to purchase the whole car and do whatever you want with it. then again i've seen some classified ads on here that people get all riled up about because the car is too nice to be parted. then when the owner tries to sell the car complete, no one steps up to the plate.

Linson

in this thread, there is alot of talk of stereotypes. i've been talking of combating a stereotype, and others have talked of combating a stereotype.

i think part of the breakdown in communication is that, perhaps without realizing it, we are actually talking about two separate stereotypes. the one that myself and others are talking about has to do with 3rd gen F-body cars. the one that others are talking about has to do with 3rd gen F-body car owners.

my assertion is that 3rd gens are widely regarded as slow cars with sports car names. and that they are also remembered as unreliable pieces of crap. my assertion is that while 3rd gens are remembered this way, IROCs, TAs, and Formulas were NOT slow cars, especially in their time. therefore, the fact that something like 3 out of 4 Third Gens were in fact slow cars with sports car names [read: generally everything before 1985, RS, Sport Coupe, Base Firebird, ect., ect.,] is the reason that ALL third gens are regarded poorly by the general public. they dont know a Formula from a Base Firebird or an IROC from an RS.

my solution: the key to my solution is to highly option our third gens, (performance-wise) so that they can hang with today's muscle cars. i'm not just talking about taking a basket case outta the junk yard and stuffing a junkyard 454 into it. that isnt what i'm talking about at all. i'm talking about a complete package. i'm talking about taking advantage of todays technology to make our third gens more than they ever were, so that they truly live up to their performance names. got a V6? make it an LS1. wanna keep it a V6, supercharge it like an '89 TTA. even if the powers that be wont let your 3rd gen enter a car show because of some arbitrary cut off date (usually around '72) because Lord knows, its better to have two hundred and one '65 Impalas at a car show than to allow something different - strive to make your car worthy of a car show.

Finally, my assertion is that when enough 3rd gens - especially the low end models - become highly optioned for performance (which is usually preceeded or followed by restoration of the paint, body, interior, suspension, ects.) people will be forced to change the way they associate 3rd gens and 3rd gen owners.


personally, i think that minimally maintaining, or even fully restoring 6's and L03's is, in a sense, putting the cart before the horse if you want to change peoples' perceptions about 3rd gens. if they see a highly restored RS, it may cause them to think about whether 3rd gens are in fact all trashed out beaters owned by [white trash] but it wont change anyones opinion on 3rd gen performance - and performance is what is at the heart of Muscle Car Culture.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

The general public doesn't remember these cars as slow--the general public doesn't have a clue, everyone thinks my lowly RS is fast.

What the general public does remember are the stinkbugs they see going down the road that are four different shades of rust.

But who really does that? How many cars on this website represent the complete package? Spike-Z, WhitedevilTA, MeanZ, and a select few others. The other 80%? Junkyard 454.

Linson

i cannot argue with your experience. i can only state mine. if what you say is true, then it would appear as though the general state of the 3rd gen is more regional than universal.

i didnt actually mean that one would have to take it THAT far. i'll be very honest - and this is not anything against Spike-Z, but his car does not do a whole lot for me. Spike-Z's car, while an engineering marvel, does not seem like it will ever be a driver. an engineering show piece, yes. an example of what can be accomplished with unlimited funding, maybe. something you'd expect to see in a hot-rodding mag, for sure. but as far as true 3rd gen flavor, to me, it's practically a funny car.

again, i dont wish to offend Spike-Z, who has no doubt put alot of time and money into his project. it just goes, IMO, waaay past the financial if not technical abilities of most, and in the process loses some of it's 3rd Gen appeal.

lt1zr28

Nice looking T/A.Is that a camaro driver side FX ?

Linson

this is my 3rd Gen. a 1989 Formula 350 with a hard top and just over 30K original miles. does this seem bastardized at all? the lines on a third gen Formula, TA or IROC speak for themselves IMO. the only exterior mods are a fiberglass aero wing (the stock foam rubber one was cracked,) Monza double-dual exhaust tips, and tinted windows. it has KYB Gas Shocks/Struts and Alston Subframe Connectors. this spring it's going to get Hotchkis lower control arms and panhard rod, and BMR torque arm. i'm also looking into a 1LE front brake kit. it has a built 700R4. the gray, sagging headliner was fixed with black material and the sail panel covers were made to match. someday i may replace the carpet in black and the upholstry with black leather. i think a black interior would be sharp. also, in the cards is a nice, thick, leather-wrapped steering wheel. and it has a stereo system. this is the original paint.




this is what's under the hood: the original L98 with Aluminum Vortec (Fast Burn) heads, Fast Burn/ZZ4 cam, Edelbrock Vortec Inake (base plate) AS&M Runners (powdercoated,) Forged I-beam Rods, Fluidampr, 1.5 Roller Rockers, Dyno Don headers / ORYP, Hooker cat back, Ed Wright chip, and some other odds and ends. it's still a TPI, and looks pretty stock aside from the black powder coating. future plans include a homemade CAI - since they arent readilly available from the aftermarket. i have since, touched up the winshield wiper screen and ordered a new hood insulation. she's fun to drive and she growls like a puma when you get on it.




This is a nice car. one of the four "nice 3rd gens" that i mentioned earlier is exactly like yours - RS, same color, i think it has 91-92 wheels though. but make no mistake, yours is a fine example of a 3rd gen, just not of 3rd gen performance. if your car were mine, in order for me to get what i need out of it, i would have to turn up the heat under the hood (maybe a Ram Jet 350), plus address the whole open diff/2.73 situation in the back. that's just if it were mine. basically, i need mine to be a little more badass. not everybody needs that though.

bitchin_buick

And yet you keep posting in your condescending tone...... You say you like TGO and yet you bash the forum and other less fortunate owners every chance you get...... Take a hike!

And to make this post on topic: Every car (3rd gen or not) deserves a second chance if that is your passion. A car sitting is better than one at "The Yard". And regarding what other people in any community think of 3rd's I could really give a Rats ****. People that are concerned with what others cars may do to their beliefs/reputation in a community have self esteem issues..... I personally like to see other 3rd's on the road even if they aren't nearly as clean as mine. So what! At least they run and we don't know the owners life story, NOR DO I CARE.

Linson

i just dunno, man. i mean, does mere ownership make one an enthusiast?

bitchin_buick

I'm just "not the man" that is going to look down on those that may be less fortunate than myself, let alone give a damn what they may be doing to my community.......

Edit: "Not the man"... lol .... Was also eating dinner while posting......

battmann

iTrader: (9)

thanks. yes, those are camaro side FX. i put a SBC 400 in the car and i had custom 6.6 LITER T/A decals made to put in the camaro emblem spot.

HI85WH1

Like any other genre of vehicles... there are mere owners, and there are true enthusiasts. Some simply drive them and are content to continue driving the one they have as an automobile... they seek out places like this to look for parts they need to keep thier ride alive.

Some of us look to make our rides perfect...

Others seek to profit from our needs...

Some realize the hulk sitting in thier yard may not be worth a lot as a whole so they decide to sell it off piece by piece.

Some see the value in the whoe car as a potential project.

Enjoy the ride.... wherever it leads you.

mans1

I am in the frame of mind if they save them as my car with all the rust is my fault i negelcted it for 9 years and i want to put it wright so what ever the cost i have to do it its my project and you will see my car is my avatar as you will know if you want to save them then do it if not don't. but i think i speak for all of us and that is save them what ever the cost in the long run you get your investment back just by the pleasure of driving them and feel so proud of what you have done.

Linson

just ordered Hotchkis Lower Trailing Arms, Panhard Rod, and UMI Torque Arm.

86blackbetty

iTrader: (2)

Thought Id post mine .. Before,in between, after, and present Purchased in 88 ...saved it after being parked in my yard for 13 years since 1999.

before


in between



After



Present

RPOZ28

This post speaks to me!....Very well said!..............BILL

handy247

Yea, last summer i was pumping gas in my 88 Orange Iroc, when a mother asked me if it was ok for her 9yr old son to take a picture of my car. Its a cool feeling.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just curious, was you IROC previously owned by a female, maybe a year or two ago?

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

I agree with puma about the types of owners. Over here in the UK prices are quite low and there are some pretty ugly examples. In some ways it exaggerates the US situation of poor examples as parts are harder to come by.

It happens to most cars; as they get cheaper, they fall into the range of those with less funds (which doesn't mean anything) but, with this, the type of car amateur DIYers - petrolheads without the coin. If the car needs bodywork, they ain't paying the $$$ a bodyshop charges but instead will buy a few tools/ improv. and have a go themselves - great if they the skills, but they don't. Yeah the V6 is slow/ TPI electronics are playing up - but they can put a carb'd V8 from a 70s truck in it, 'cos they ain't paying the $$$ that a half decent performing v8/ fuel injection setup commands etc. Killing the whole sleek, 80s tech. image of the third gen.

I'll coin them as '80/20' owners.

Now not every third-gen owner is like that. But right now, the majority of the cars out there are in used/ disrepair condition. They're cheap and a little bit different to what else you can get for the same price. Unfortunately this attracts the very type of customer we'd rather not be associated with these cars.

So with these types of owners, over time, more and more will be scrapped. Low supply and fondly remembered halo cars by then kids, who now have a bit of cash (e.g. me!) willl pay a bit more for the good ones. Good bodies will be rare and whilst everyone wants the Z28/ GTAs, the price discrepancy will mean people will consider the v6 with a mind to clone/ mod them to somethin else. I believe that would be majority market - some may be partial to the I4 V6 cars and search for these. Prices in general will continue to go up, and this will price out the low-rent owners.

What's left will be better kept and third-gen's will start to be seen in a better light.

Should all be saved? because of the current unfortunate image, if it gets the cheapo type of owners away from them, then I think no.

Linson

sweet ride.

how come the aero wing was left unpainted or unfinished?

handy247

I bought my 88 Iroc last march. I had it for a couple months, and hated it sitting in the garage for 6 months of the year, so I was thinking of trading it in on a 2011 Camaro. Funny thing is I bought it for $6,800, with 91,000 orig miles on it. The Iroc is in very good condition, original everything!. The dealer told me he can get these 3rd gens anywhere, there a dime a dozen. He said he would give me $2,500 for it on trade. Obviously I told him to go get F***ed. I then wanted to know more about my Iroc and stumbled apon this site. I now realize I do have a nice 3rd gen that alot of people wish they had, and with all the 3rd gen's dissapearing, or young punks customizing them, and beating the hell out of them, I will keep it and hand it down to my kid's. Thanks 3rd Gen for letting me see the light.

86blackbetty

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Linson.... It was left unpainted since its the rubber aero wing..i didnt try painting over it..im pretty sure it would not come out good.....I just need to come across a wing to buy it.. I would really like to keep the rubber wing ...but if i cant find one then i will be going with the fiberglass one.

Linson

i paid about $400 for my fiberglass wing, plus about $300 for shipping from NC to WA. and it'll be about another $300 to have it painted and installed. so, about a grand in total. welp, i'm already 2/3 in...

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I use Tire Wet on my spoiler,it does make it look a lot better.

matts86cam

iTrader: (1)

It happens to most cars; as they get cheaper, they fall into the range of those with less funds



Thank god for that. Lol.




I would agree that the majority of people I know that are true car enthusiasts have very little respect for the third gens. They all say the same thing, "dime a dozen" and "parts are cheap and abundant." In my opinion this is because of all of the beaters still around.

And as to this site changing its culture, it will.

Give it another 10 years. Fewer and fewer third gens will be able to be purchased at a used car lot for 2500 bucks. That is when you will see this site with fewer members and a different culture.

My words of wisdom to all of you members that are not happy with the caliber of others: Wait it out. I am certainly not giving up my hobby but eventually you will see parts and cars disappearing and only the best still around. Just think, in 10 more years people will be having this same conversation on a chevy cavalier forum.

86blackbetty

iTrader: (2)

you know what u have a great idea there...dont know y i didnt think of it sooner...it makes sense.

lt1zr28

Well I going to look at 92 R/S this weekend.Its been off the road for a while my goal is to save it and give the attention it needs.So all do deserve a chance. Some are beyond repair so they will never get it. And probably should not be repaired because of safety issues.
And I am good with that. After all it's not the cars fault were they end up.Its the owners in most cases.
So maybe my original question should have been does everyone deserves a Third Gen? Probably not.IMO.....But my plan is to put as many back on the road as possbile. Because I know there a lot of people like me that appreciates seeing our cars on the road.So back to the original question.......

Linson

[quote=GTA1990;5171493]

i actually tend to agree with this. any sort of slick fuel injection is a better fit for the (at least my) sensory perception of a third gen than an old fashoned carburator. 3rd gens have a sleek, futuristic appearance, and therefore, i find fuel injection to be generally more fitting. not necessarilly saying that every 3rd gen with a carburator is a turd, but as a matter of preference...

speaking of preference, i've never been very fond of pre-'85 models. they just sit too high, and have a narrower stance than the later, higher end models. thats probably nothing that a set of wheels/tires cant fix, but it is also alot easier to associate those pre-TPI models with 1) being very low performance vehicles (from that era when reduced emissions and high performance were both mutually exclusive), and 2) having a mismatch of styling and technology, meaning that while having futuristic, stealth fighter-like styling, they had, essentially, detuned versions of previous decades' technology. Unfortunately, that is where alot of peoples' familiarity of 3rd Gens begins and ends.

Linson

DESERVE has got nothing to do with it. remember that your car, no matter how much you love it, will never love you back.

Dusk2600

mine does, i talk to it, it understands me

Linson

thats very well and good, but it doesnt really address the question though of "does mere ownership an automotive enthusiast make?"

When I was in the military, my 1996 Z28 Camaro was pretty well known in my Unit as the hottest car in the Unit. This little dipshyt in my Unit (who was quite the little dipshyt, btw), and owner of a fairly ratted out, '95-ish Chevy Cavalier asked me if I'd be interested in joining a "Chevy club" that he and some of his dipshyt friends were starting. A Chevy Club, presumably because Cavalier Club sounded too stupid. Not every car deserves a following.

I remember once in the Automotive Forum of a general topic message board, there was the topic of something to the effect of 'Name Your Top Ten All Time Favorite Muscle Cars.' So, I'm looking at this one guy's list, and aside from a couple of the usual suspects, it's got things on there like 1984 El Camino, 1978 Vega, 1983 Murcury Capri...clearly, these are just cars that he owned at one time or another. Just because you own a particular car, doesnt mean that it should be shoe-horned into the category of 'desireable classic.'

In and of itself, owning a Third Gen and posting on TGO doesnt make you a Third Gen enthusiast.

Linson

Trailing Arms, Panhard Rod, & Torque Arm are on. wheel hop eliminated. car seems less squeaky now. am not keeping the original hardware.

Richboll

This is an interesting thread exercise. Back in the day, we trashed many Gen 1s. I probably went through at least 20 of them as I was racing circle track at the time and was racing (and also driving on the street) 67, 68, and 69 bodies. I was able to pick them up for as little as $50. They really weren't anything special at the time, Most of them weren't even fun to drive. Of course, if I knew then what I know now...well you know how that goes. Anyway, I think that the same thing will happen eventually with the 3rd gen cars. The beaters will disappear and the nice ones will survive. They may never attain the value of the Gen ones but they will be of value to the owners that still have them. People will still continue to try to sell the ones that are really too far gone, (like now they are looking for 10 grand for a rusted out Gen 1 shell and 2nd Gen are starting to get ridiculous) but it is up to us as individuals to determine if we want to pay the price to salvage them or not. It is with great pride that I own, maintain, and drive my low mileage, rust free '89 IROC-Z vert. This car will likely be with me until my demise and then it will go to my grandson who already is into 3rd gens. The question as stated is "Does every 3rd Gen deserve a chance to be saved? Probably not..like anything else, it is the survival of the fittest whether its a 4 banger, V-6, RS,Z-28, or Iroc, The nice ones will always survive.

eseibel67

Au contraire. If you abuse or neglect an inanimate mechanical object, it will hate you and refuse to function when you need it most.

You have to dote on it by applying just the right type and amount lubricant, and by repairing every tiny little thing that is worn out promtly. Then, anytime YOU are in the mood to take your mistress that's parked in the garage for a spin, you will feel the love.

cIaRmOaCrZo

Linson

good point. good point.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

This is dead on, and not doing this is how cars turn into beaters.

In fact at this moment I'm at the dealer having several minor issues taken care of on my Mustang that just popped up; noncritical things like the rearview mirror popping off and a fog burning out; nonetheless, you have to stay on top of these minor things before they turn into a pile worth more than the car.

Jason E

So, I have remained quiet on this topic since early on. I've been lurking, watching people fight back and forth over what is "right." I've been here for 12 years now, and what has always surprised me about this site and the "enthusiasts" on it is the so-called stigma attached to these cars. It has NEVER gone away. If anything, its as strong now as it was 12 years ago, when these cars were everywhere.

Sometimes, it honestly is shameful to see what people post up here as something to be proud of. Now, before I get jumped all over for saying that and called an "elitist snob" (or much worse ), consider the board you're posting on. This is History/Originality. Not "damn, looka mah Cragar SSs, air shocks, true duels (sic) and 4" cowl hood." This is before we discuss the spray bomb paint, missing parts, or the Wal Mart system with exposed wires running everywhere.

To me, that's simply disgusting. How the HELL can we ever expect respect from other enthusiasts when we trash, thrash and destroy what supposedly matters to us? Lemme tell you guys a little story. As some of you know, I had the honor of representing TGO at a little event last September. Scott made it very clear to me that I would be showing my car against frame-off first and second gens. He didn't need to say any more to me...the message was clear.

Before having the shop respray the car, I had Dent Wizard remove every ding they could, to make the car as straight as possible. I sent the steering wheel to MI to be re-wrapped. I scoured eBay for days to find the best used console I could find. Little things like NOS shift ***** were tracked down, to make the interior compliment the fresh exterior. All-new GM weatherstripping was tracked down and given to the body shop. Everything was stripped off the car in order to avoid tape lines. The spoiler was trashed, even though I guess it could've been saved. Only two wheels needed to be re-done, but I chose to spend an extra $250 and have all 4 re-painted and cleared. The windshield was starting to delaminate at the base, so that was replaced.

Yes, I spent $5,000 on a 190hp third gen in 30 days. It did not involve a cowl hood...Weld or Cragar wheels...a Grant steering wheel...4th gen dash/seats...carbed crate motor...etc. Most people would not do that. However, tell me the end result isn't one of the prettiest 86 Trans Ams you've seen since, I dunno, 1989???



Not the best picture of it, but that's how the car looked at the show. It was perfect. I was neurotic leading up to the show. I kept thinking to myself "can I pull this off? Can this car stand tall next to $30k+ resto jobs?" It did, and it does. I could've spread what I did over 2 years, if needed, in order to make it affordable...something the "average" third gen enthusiast could EASILY do. Guess what??

They don't. They simply don't. They don't care...its too much $$$...too much work...why bother...insert dumbass excuse here. Until this community AS A WHOLE, does? Guess what? These cars will be worth peanuts, and they will have the same ******-mentality in the enthusiast circles they've had since the LT1 debuted in '93.

The sad part for me personally is that while I really enjoy bringing this car to shows and showing people how gorgeous they are when done right, no one else is there to carry the torch with me. The car draws a crowd at every cruise night because guess what??? No one has seen one like it in YEARS. At least, not up close.

The other sad part for me is, the above car will be going up for sale in a few short weeks. As warmer weather comes to the Northeast, it'll be out of storage, having pictures taken, and will be listed up here. PM me for details if you're interested. It breaks my heart to sell it, but it worries me too. Will a buyer emerge quickly that will pony up for an immaculate, 34,000 mile TPI Trans Am with a good history that is turnkey? Or will I get a bunch of goofballs offering me 60 cents on the dollar? I guess I'm about to find out. I was able to sell my beautiful '91 RS a year ago with relative ease, to a great buyer no less. However, I lost almost half my investment in the car, because even I thought to myself, "what is a fair value for a TBI, 119k mile Camaro?"

This topic is an emotional one for me because I've been in love with these cars since a young child. I've had them as DDs...high-mileage resto projects...low mileage garage queens. All have been a blast, and ALL have been taken care of with far more love and respect than 90% of the cars on this board. I'm sick and tired of seeing people trash them, and frankly, that fact IS starting to turn me off to the cars...and making me wonder, why the hell do I care about them so much when others don't? Am I missing something?

Thanks for listening.