Jason444

iTrader: (6)

Charlie, you would be way better of buying my old yellow '86 that Mike had on ebay a few weeks ago. That really is a nice car with new paint done right and you would end up with the same amount of money as you will in that one you are looking at. If that car has been a TPI I would have never sold it.

Jason

Jason E

That is exactly what I'm saying.

For me, it came into focus when I bought my IROC. I already had my never-ending project '91 RS, and my fresh project 86 TA. I paid about $1,000 less for my IROC than I had tied up in my RS at the time, and WOW...look what I got for my investment? My dream car...a 350 TPI/t-top/IROC with every option I wanted (save for performance axle), in almost-new condition with 21,000 pampered miles, that was 1 lb of freon and 4 tires away from being brand new...even smelling new inside. Hell, I was glad I needed tires because that meant the originals were still on it!

Then, I took a good, long, hard look at my 86 before investing the money in it. I sold my RS because I knew even with all the money invested, I still had more to do...springs, front end, brakes, tires. I was going to have a $15,000 TBI third gen pretty quick if I didn't stop. So, I did. The buyer got a good car that needed a few things, and I got off my merry-go-round from hell.

After looking at my TA really good, I estimated for around $8,000-8,500, I would have a like-new TA with TPI with 1/4 the miles on it my RS had. It was solid, tight, had a good interior that needed a couple small things, no rust...all the good things when taking on a project. I remember the year I owned the RS and the TA together, I kept saying to my wife "wow, I wish I'd invested the RS money in the TA...it'd be such a better car." I ended up around $9,000 total invested in it, and I couldn't be happier with it. It isn't the fastest thing in the world, but its comfortable, fun to drive, and can hold its head high at any show. It was just shown last month against frame-off first and second gens, and a pampered original IROC, and I couldn't believe all the compliments I got on it.

Unless you are tearing down to a shell, regardless of condition, the starting point matters EVERY TIME. Unless you are an ASE tech who double-majored in bodywork, the starting point matters EVERY TIME. If you have plenty of disposable income, and want to preserve a piece of rotting history, then the starting point doesn't matter at all. ANYTHING can be saved.

I've had my Z28 for almost 11 years. I love the car. But, it doesn't mean I will have it forever. I love all of my cars, but only one is truly sacred to me...the IROC. The other ones? I'm keeping an eye on the total investment so I don't screw myself again, in the event I get one of those "life altering" events Drew spoke of.

KMK454

Personally, I'd rather slightly overpay for perfection than slightly underpay for a project. Every used car will need something. I'd rather that "something" be a simple fluid change, air pressure check, and thorough inspection versus that "something" being a complete rotisserie restoration... because that restoration costs more than overpaying for a perfect one would, and it'll take a while before you have a car to drive and enjoy.

In other words, buy the best car you can afford.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Ah-Ha! I knew that was your old car after talking to Mike on the phone. As a matter of fact, I was the high bidder on his ebay auction, it just didn't meet reserve. Mike finds himself in the same position as many of us do, that being, having more money into a car than you can sell it for.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

You guys like this one better?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...TAFSRCHUSDTEXT

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

It looks very nice in the photos, I like it. I don't think it's worth the asking price, somewhere between $6000~$7000 is more like it assuming it's as good as described.

eseibel67

No.

Automatic transmissions are for drag racing, daily commuting, and blue haired ladies. Toy cars have manual transmissions - no exceptions.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's better, a step in the right direction, but two steps in that right direction would be better yet. 86 305 TPI auto = gawdawful slow. Mine was still fun, it'd chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift, but wow was it ever slow. The 86 3rd brake light is really polarizing too. Other than that you found a much nicer car, with fewer miles, less mileage, less goofy cornball options. The price seems a hair high, but that might be a bit negotiable.

Why the focus on 86s? Look for an 87, either with the 350 or 305 TPI 5spd, and it'd bring that gawdawful slow up to peppy.

Ps, I'm sure you already know this, but it's worth mentioning... No 350 until 87. No 305 TPI with a 5spd until 87. No Yellow Irocs after 87. So you get a 1987 Iroc in yellow with either 350 or 305 TPI 5spd, and you've got a one year only car. As long as we're being hypothetical, make it a Norwood car. That'd make it one of the last of the Z28 Irocs, the only early style Iroc with either or those power trains, and one of the last Norwood cars. Make it a T-top car too for that extra "you couldn't get that!" factor. That would be a somewhat unusual car, worth a second look.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Actually, I'd prefer an '85 or '87. I don't care for the third brake light or lack of a ballsy stick motor. But these yellow '86s are what keep coming up.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

As a yellow substitute, I've been following this '88 medium orange metallic IROC for several months. Still a peanut cammed LB9 with auto and lotsa miles.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...23.l2649#v4-43

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Blech! Metalflake brown with brown interior... Pass. I know some people REALLY like that orange, but it just doesn't do it for me.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Oh man. You are a tough customer.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

FWIW I really don't like white cars either, but the majority of thirdgens I've owned were white or just barely off-white. Sometimes you compromise... After the fact it's never bothered me, but then every white thirdgen I've come into was dirt cheap for what it was. In fact if you added what I've spent on white thirdgens together, I bought 4 of them for about what that guy wants for his 86 LB9 auto Iroc.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Ideal for me would be an '85 L69/T5 or '87 LB9/T5. But, yellow ones like that don't come up often. I do have a line on an all original, unmolested, '85, yellow, L69/T5, which the owner may consider selling in afew months. But....the guy wants alot of money, it needs news paint, (yellow is faded), and has a ton of miles, (IIRC, ~ 135,000).

The last '87 LB9/T5 I saw was afew years ago, and had a rebuilt motor.


It seems like the vast majority of these yellow IROCs left the factory with milk toast powertrains.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The #1 problem I see with pre-86 cars is the V8 engine technology. GM didn't figure out how to keep oil inside the engine until 1987. 2pc rear main seals ALWAYS leak a little bit. It wasn't until the 87s that GM fixed the forever leaking valve covers. It just seems like the early cars are always caked in crud, and there's always a lake of oil under their parking spot.

When you're searching for something specific, make a note of exactly what you want, and keep looking. It'll turn up eventually.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I'm watching that one on ebay too. It's a recent repaint, I happen to like the exterior/interior color combo ( I would call the interior tan or saddle, but each to his own ) and the 1988 5.0L had a few more ponies than the 1986 version so personally I would consider it if the price were right.

From the purely looks point of view, I like the yellow one better, but it's all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

A Ford dealer apparently sold it to this guy several months ago while they had it on ebay. The Ford dealer used car guy, confirmed to me that this was a repaint. He had no idea how old though.

The other thing with these cars all over the country is, I'd need to add about $1K for shipping.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I know what you mean. I've been shopping the internet since early spring and the cars that I like always are at least half way across the country. Most of the your looking at around $1000 to get it home ether if you have it shipped or fly in and drive it back home. It has put most of they out of my budget so far.

Jason E

Charlie,

I like the yellow '86 a lot. I would lean towards that car....the black custom interior looks nice, as does the fact it has t-tops. I would prefer the orange over the yellow, if it was me, but the mileage turns me off from the orange '88.

I know what Drew is saying about the '86 305 TPI/AT combo being on the slower side, but I don't find my 86 to be a slug when I'm driving it. Honestly, it isn't until I get in either '88 that I think to myself "damn, it'd be nice if the 86 was a little quicker."

If the car is in great shape and is otherwise a nice car, I wouldn't let the motor hold me back. If it was an LG4, I wouldn't bother...but an LB9 is torquey enough to be amusing, even with the peanut cam.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I can agree with this, but I love yellow Irocs.

If you do decide on this one ask him to get pictures of the bottom of the rear blackouts to make sure they aren't eating into the bumper. I have seen that happen and it can really eat up the paint...

KMK454

Or you could do what I did and fly to the car and drive it 1000 miles home! The one way ticket was $300 versus $1000 on shipping. It was a really fun trip... in some ways a roll of the dice because "new" to you old cars are always an unknown, but the trip went well and is a great memory. The best part was driving through the TN/NC mountains on the way back, rowing the gears in the LB9/T5 combo...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Good tip! IF I were to get that car, the first thing to go would be the rear blackouts. Then the pinstriping. The '88 + door molding may or may not stay.

BTW, this car is a twin to the one which I previously mentioned in my neighborhood. Except this one has no visible rust or bruises.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Be careful... I removed the pin stripe on one of my cars and a previous owner had the clear coat sprayed over them. It's also not uncommon to remove a tacky decal only to have the image ghosted into the paint from UV exposure.

The door moldings are too long to be 88+.

Jason E

VERY true. I'm with Drew on this one...I've seen that happen all too many times. Plus, consider this is a color with a known propensity to fade, anyway!!!

Love 'em and leave 'em if you buy it, I'd say....

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The previous owner had put '82 Indy Pace Car style decals on the hood of my '83 and apparently cleared over them. They were kind of a biotch to remove.

I can't stand pinstriping like that. They'd have to go, and I'd take my chances, even if they were painted on.

Drew, you're right about the door moldings. They appear to be some sort of aftermarket??? They'd have to go too.

83TransAmDayton

it looks like this car was repainted look at the picture of the bottom of the drivers door is black with yellow over spray on it. If its repainted who knows what kinda body damage is under that paint and I would try talking him down in cost

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Wow, I can't get that kind of resolution on those pics.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

If your looking for something a little faster, I would consider this one if you have the money. Looks great and is probably fast, but wouldn't likely pass the emissions test here in Texas.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

chazman

iTrader: (4)

That would have been a cool car for me before all of the mods.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Looks like the seats or out of a 1988 or later 3rd gen Camaro also, definitely not an original car.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

So, I talked to this guy tonight. Sounds like a pretty mint car. He's going to send me a bunch more pics.

I have some concerns though.

1) It's priced abit high.
2) I don't know how I feel about a long distance deal.
3) Shipping will of course be an added cost.

BTW Drew, the owner believes those door molding are factory, he's owned it since '88. I can't really say I ever remember seeing ones like that however.

eseibel67

Concerns:

1) No idea.
2) Long distance deals are o.k. I am in Toronto and I bought a car from California. Have the guy send tons of high resolution pics, including one with the front wheel removed. The pictures should match the story. There are also services available that will inspect the car on your behalf.
3) Fly to Harrisburg, PA on a Saturday, make the deal and drive it back on Sunday. It's a long way, but a car with that mileage should make it. Just inspect it.

The good thing about going yourself is that if there's a major defect that wasn't visible in the pics, you can bail out and your only out the plane ticket and a weekend out of your life. But if you do your homework it should be a small risk.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

They look like the factory pre-88 moldings to me... In at least 86 and 87 they were color matched to the paint. They're longer then the later moldings too. In the pics they look a bit on the thick side, but I think it's an optical illusion.

I think you're under estimating exactly how lethargic an early LB9 auto is, but you're not buying it for the driving experience, you're buying it for the color... So more power to you.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I remember them. They did lose some punch after '85. Let's face it, even the fastest of our cars would have their hands full against a modern Honda Accord. I accept them for what they are.

Jason E

As do I

Those look like factory moldings to me, FWIW. I don't think the price is too nuts, but I think I'd like it a whole lot more for $7,000-7,500 max with those miles. At that price, I would say you did fine.

After re-reading some of the above, I didn't realize that orange IROC was the same one Tysons Ford had on eBay. I agree, that car had a ton of miles, and was less than ideal in condition. I wonder how well the repaint was done...that could make a big difference in the desireability level.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Here's a cheap one that you might want to look at about the same distance away from you. If he were closer to me I would be seriously considering it myself. This guy has had it up one ebay at least 3 times, hasn't been able to get his reserve but it looks like he's dropped that price a lot. It's an 1985 5.0L, 700R4, 114,XXX, miles looks pretty much all original and rust free.
Looks to be in fairy good shape, but needs some work. A/C has been removed but I emailed the owner when he first posted it and he said he had all the A/C parts that would go with the sale. It has the the rear hatch cover too!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-...item27bf64fe4a

Jason E

One thing that jumped out at me about that car was that the outter lower dash vents are blocked off. Didn't that happen only in non-A/C cars? Also, I thought the outter upper dash vents were blocked in non-A/C cars as well...

That car looks like a nice driver, but its pretty well used to be a "nice" example, which I think is what Charlie is after. In my mind, everything needs to be pulled out and re-done with that one....

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm... I have a hard time seeing in those photos if the vents are blocked off or if the louvers are just dusty and closed. It appears to have the mount plate for the compressor on the front drivers side of the engine, which I think was the correction location on the '85s. Would a factory non-A/C car have the mount plate or is that something else?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yup.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Ok, now I see what you were talking about. I found a photo of another '85 with the lower vent and A/C. It looks like the whole vent is missing and a cover plastic plate is covering the hole. Factory or later A/C delete? If it's a A/C delete job it would be a pain to put it back in even if he still has all the parts.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Are you guys really so unfamiliar with this subject to not spot a car with aftermarket A/C?



Note the aluminum compressor bracket, not OEM. Note also the HVAC box isn't even close to a factory piece. Also the vacuum reservoir is in a completely unusual location. All of this taken with the A/C delete dash features adds up that the car had aftermarket A/C at one time.

The price is right, but it's another stripped down Iroc, and it's dirty and in need of a restoration. I'd pass.

How "RARE" are yellow Irocs again? That's the third one in this thread. Not that long ago there was another one (Yellow 86 Iroc) advertised here in Kansas. The listing has been pulled, but I bet the seller still has it. It's got under 20k miles on it, and they want 20k for it. LOL I'd still say hold out for a 1987.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

Nope, don't know all that stuff, but I'm here to learn so thanks for the info. In fact, that's the first non A/C(factory delete) IROC I've seen in detail since I've been shopping the internet ads. I've seen piles of them with broken or removed A/Cs, IROC's with factory A/C delete are relatively rare in the "For Sale" ads. Can't imagine that very many came off the assembly lines that way ether.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

They didn't build a lot that way, but they aren't exactly that rare either. They're less common then those with A/C, but it's not exactly a desirable thing. People tend to remove the A/C because it's in the way and it doesn't work. R134a conversions don't blow cold air for $4!t, and people figure R12 is expensive... Having been down the no A/C road, I wouldn't even think about ripping it out of a car. It's kind of like having steering or brakes that work.

You're fine, I can't blame a junior member for not being able to spot aftermarket A/C. Now if you've been on here for over a decade, it should be pretty easy to pick up on what's not right.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Here's another one I'm looking into:





It's an '85 with TPI. ~105K miles, no rust, (supposedly), mint black interior, (supposedly). Other than the driver's door, paint is original and faded. Has a '91-'92 spoiler and some custom yellow paint on the wheels and t-tops. Guy is asking...ummm...$5900. It's about 3 hours away.

He's going to have his sister send me more pics.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I would like to see some interior and engine bay shots, but based on what I can see there he's asking about $2500 over what I would think it's worth.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Ok, seeing as how these things are coming out of the woodwork, and you don't seem all that impressed with any of them... Why not just keep looking until you find 'the one'? There's no reason to settle.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Well it's not just that. I've noticed that I sometimes get a wild hair for something. A recurring one is for a yellow IROC. Sometimes it's for a convertible. I went through an Iron Duke phase. These moods may last a week or a month or whatever. When I get into these moods, I'm ready to buy. The trick is that I must exchange money while I'm still hot for whatever it is. When the mood passes after a certain time period, I'm much less likely to take the the plunge.

With that said, an '85 L69/T5 or an '87 LB9/T5 is REALLY the yellow IROC I want.

eseibel67

If that's what you really want, don't settle for anything less. One will definitely show up, hopefully before you pull the trigger on a compromise.

burnout88

Here you go Charlie,

This guy seems to have exactly the IROC you want. Yellow 85 L69 with the factory 3.73 gear and 5-speed. You should ask him if he wants to sell it. He seems to have enough thirdgens.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82726

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yes, he's the guy I mentioned earlier. He may or may not want to sell it next year. That's the combo I'd want. This one has a lot of miles on it though and Jeff will be asking top dollar - IF he sellls.