GoldenRhino

Greetings all. I am new to the board and thus far have enjoyed the feedback. My wife picked up her childhood dream car last weekend. An 89 Camaro RS that is a very drivable project that is straight and very mechanically sound. It is her dd only 5 miles to work and back. The interior is in nearly emmaculate condition short of the driver seat with expected wear. Not a scratch, scuff or ding anywhere in the dash..all the lights work, all controls and functions work. The gas gauge can get a bit sticky at times but appears to level correctly every time the car is shut off so we can tell gas need by that lol. The engine is matching VIN to the car and appears to have been rebuilt. I base this assumption on how very clean the engine bay and engine itself are and newer condition of some cabling. We got this from an 18yo kid whose dad and him began to restore/rebuild the car. My wife is under the strict thought that we need to "restore" it to it's original condition but after reading the possibilities in engines alone...I am left with questions. We currently have the LB8 in there and the exhaust appears to have already been upgraded as it is shiny clean as well. The odometer has 76000 so I'm guessing 176000.

Simply asked...what is the best way to go with this to give it some more poop yet retain the most original value. Restoring it is very very important to her. Performance is very important to me. My experience takes me to wondering if I should go "all motor" into the 2.8 with high performance internals and the usual round of accomplices (cam, pistons, boring, etc etc). I also have zero fear of N2O

Right now I'm matching VIN and as far as I know thats pretty darn important?

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Ok, this coming from somebody that has an 89 rs, so don't get mad


There is no collectors value in our cars. Have fun with it, and the only thing you can do to hurt the value is to wreck it, or disable the AC

The originality points and concerns should be saved for the irocs

camaronewbie

I agree - not enough value in it now and probably not ever in the future to be concerned with "numbers matching".

My neighbor has a 1970 Malibu in mint condition, and he just dropped in a ZZ4 motor selling his numbers matching 350 to me. "Numbers matching" is important on some cars, this 89 RS ain't one of them.

That being said, the best cheapest easiest power you could add to make the car fun to drive is a 350 V8. I started with a 305 V8, and was amazed at the difference 45 cubes can make - so you will be astounded! But that also involves swapping tranny as well (can't connect V6 tranny to a V8 motor).

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I agree with the guys. Just do what makes ya happy. And if your happy with a v6 keep it. But i'd throw a 350 minimum in there and soup it up. but it also depends on what part of our smog country you are in.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

I have a 89 and I love it. I have picked up the few pieces that were missing when I bought it. It is pretty much stock. Now I just need a really good paint job! I only have a little over 50 thousand original miles on it. Had MVD do a search on it to make sure that was the real miles. They said it sure is!! So restore your car. And enjoy it. Try not to look at it as a investment.

GoldenRhino

Ok...well that's some great responses and after double checking what I was "told", the numbers actually aren't matching so ...out the window with that and time to have some fun.

Now here's the thing...I am on a very small budget and the idea of the 350 and the multitude of affordable parts for it is very enticing. That being said, I have to comment on something that I know I will be told I shouldnt worry about...but I have to know. What kind of mpg difference are you all with 350's seeing? It being a daily driver and fun car that is very important to our particular situation. Is the 350 the best balance between budget and performance. Yes I know those two words really don't belong in the same sentence but nonetheless.

Input? (and I am actively using the search on the board so if I am bringing up something answered 100 times...please understand i just haven't gotten that far yet)

Edit: and what is the recommended transmission if I'm going to throw a small amount of build up to it? Maybe someone can throw me a link to a forum where someone already did this and have a good write up. I thought I remember somethign about having to rewire the harness for a 350?

Also, it is 3.73 Posi...i don't know if that makes difference as to what engine i should be looking at

scottmoyer

I don't drive my 350 daily but I get about 20-22 highway. You might see better dependent on the engine you drop in. The LT1s/LS1s would get upper 20s highway. A crate motor could be in between. Do you want a 5/6 speed or auto. The 4l60e would be the most efficient in the auto world and the T56 would probably be the best for 5/6 speed. The T5 could be good, but will require rebuild to take the power of newer engines. The same with the 700R4. If you can find a combination package, you're set. Also, be aware that dropping a larger engine in this car will require the suspension to be upgraded to handle the additional weight, etc.

You might even want to keep your eyes open for another 89 RS but with the V8. It might be cheaper in the end to start with a V8 than it will be to build up to one. The L03 V8 is very anemic in comparison to the TPI engines or even upgraded engines, so the V8 swap to a more potent engine might still be your desire. You have endless opportunities here.

navy02ws6

Being a base model 89 RS with the 2.8, I wouldn't worry at all about keeping it original. You're wasting your money though if you're thinking about doing a 'performance rebuild' on the 2.8. You can dump $3,000 into it easy, at which point it might make 150hp, and you can have a nice 300+hp 350ci for that much. Not to mention that the car would be easier to sell with a 350ci than the 2.8.

GoldenRhino

I'm definately sold on the 350 idea. Can you see me *drooling* lol

Now, where is the best place to start looking for a combo deal (w/ Trans)? I'd love to do it up in one shot. I've gotten several ideas given to me about which 350/trans combo to go with. What seems to be the best balance between cost/power?

camaronewbie

Tranny - depends - never saw whether it's currently an automatic or a stick shift.

If it's an automatic (then you have a 700R4), and you want it to stay an automatic ... you should locate a 700R4 tranny for a V8 car, preferable from 1988 or later. In mid 1987, they changed the valve bodies inside, and the 1988+ tranny is preferrable. These were made from 1988 - 1993 (the 1993 tranny will be termed as a "4L60" tranny, but it's a 700R4 - GM changed the name in 1993 to prep the world for the 4L60E, which is electronically controlled, and thus the 4L60 "name"). The 700R4 for a V8 car was a bit sturdier, and the bellhousing from a V6 car won't mount to a V8 - just as easy to get a V8 700R4.

You have some options here ...
1) buy a newly built 700R4 - about $1800 - Probuilt Automatics is the ONLY place I'd buy from - never heard any complaints at all about anyone dealing with them, and they are a sponsor here at TGO.
2) Craigslist - you take your chances here - and prices vary greatly, and 99% of the time the seller doesn't have a clue what they actually have, so you need to know what your looking at before you buy.
3) local tranny shop or JY - often, you can buy used tranny's for as little as $300 with a 90 day warranty. The warranty covers the tranny, not the labor of installing it - but at least it's something. A used tranny might last a week, might last a year, might last 10 years - you just never know. But it's a cheap "in" to get started anyweay, and it's a cheap replacement to keep a car running until you get the funds available for a rebuild ($800 - $1200+) or a newly built as I mentioned above.

I can't say much on manual trannies - I read that the T5 (what came in these cars) will not last behind a 350 - but I believe if your gentle, not track racing with sticky tires and clutch dumping every weekend, it'll last. Most folks look to the T56 (from a 1993 - 2002 F body), they will handle the 350 no question, and used start at about $1200 plus extra for conversion parts (crossmembers and such). Beyond those two used options, there are many newly built options availabl;e that will eat through even a thick wallet quickly, like Tremec and such.

For the engine, you need to determine whats available as options in your area (emissions wise). Here in NC, I can get away with almost anything on a pre-1996 car, but in CA, you can't do jack squat. So check local laws. My 350 is carbed, non computer controlled, no emissions (except a gutted cat for appearances). And I only get about 17mpg, but it's not a daily driver anymore either (I have economical two wheels for that).

Best case scnerio for ease and maintaining the bills - finding a 350/700R4 combo on Craigslist that is still in the car that you can drive before purchase. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. My 1987 Ford Bronco II just fried it's auto tranny last week, and I saw a Craigslist seller with same year vehicle that wants to do a V8 swap, and he's selling his Bronco engine/tranny combo for $450 if I go get it out of the truck, but I can go drive it before purchase and ensure that it runs and drives. (BTW - he has to remove it if he ever wants to do his swap - I'll make HIM do the work if he wants my money ).

I've rambled wnough - good luck! Biggest part is, take your time, get your ducks in a row first, make sure the bills get paid so the wife is happy, and keep your excitement down as much as possible. It took me 5+ years and $15k to get my car where it is today, and it's not yet "done" in my mind. But it's my therapy, I enjoy it, and my wife is happy cause at least I'm in the driveway and not at the strip club!

GoldenRhino

wow newbie that was some great info very easily laid out...we have the 5spd in it right now. We don't plan on tracking it. This is more of a cruising/touring car for us to get into the lifestyle before I go find my dream 66 Figure this is a good one to learn from my mistakes on lol. That being said..I would like to be able to have a little fun and maybe put on a small humble bit of a show if the moment pressed for it. Does that make sense? I'm not gonna hammer the crap out of it over and over but I want to enjoy flexing once in awhile.

Ya think the T5 would hold up in that scenario? I'd probably go with a standard run of the mill 350 of decent quality and enjoy building it over time. I'd like to possibly put a blower on it down the road. I do realize I'd probably be having to upgrade the transmission to the T56 you mentioned were I to actually ever get that far.

A solid daily driver for my wife with enough poop in it to inspire pride of ownership for both ofus. Beyond the fact that...dude...I got a Camaro maaaan.

camaronewbie

OK - then the next question (which I don't know the answer to), is whether the V6 T5 can be modded/changed to attach to the V8 motor, or will you need to swap to a V8 T5? Maybe a search in the tranny section will yield the answer.

Dream Car - 1966 what?

GoldenRhino

Camaro of course with a big fat 5 something and a gnarly blower system *evil grin**drool*

EDIT: this would do nicely http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikebrown666/4627294617/

scottmoyer

Good luck with that one! Owning a '66 Camaro is everybody's dream. Oh, BTW, '67 was the first year for the Camaro and Firebird! ;-)

GoldenRhino

whaaa?? aww great i love being new to things. The car I fell in love with at the track I was told was a 66 Camaro and nearly impossible to find. That came from someone I never knew to be wrong. Don't I look foolish lol.

scottmoyer

Nope! Just like someone that's been misinformed. We're here to help!!

GoldenRhino

Hey thanks Scott. I love how helpful everyone is here. Reminds of the forums I used to admin when I was into the Maxima. Very happy to be with a group like this again.