mr.camaro

Hi i realized the other day that i have a wonder bar (i think thats how you call it, its in front of the swaybar) on my 86 iroc-z. Did these come factory in 86? and did all iroc's have them?

Thanks

Drew

iTrader: (58)

All Irocz's came with the same FE2 suspension, and the wonderbar.

mr.camaro

Ok thanks for that info!! because i am wondering if i have a real iroc or a clone. Because everything on the body is corect exept for the cluster. The vin sais a black 86 sport coupe with 2.8l, but my car is red every wear. had 305 tpi before i swap it, posi, 4 wheel disc, power mirrors, windows, doors ect.. the cluster matches the milage on carfax from the SC vin and is a 140km. Is there a way to know if the body is a iroc with changed vin or a clone??

Drew

iTrader: (58)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-car-iroc.html

The VIN can't be transferred from one car to another legally. If the VIN says the car came with a V6 then it was never an Iroc.

mr.camaro

Yes i know its not legal, but thats what i think happend, because my car is completely red floors, under the trim ect.. but it says my car is black and it says in 97 it ways wrecked and was back on the road 2 years later. i think somethings up

kennyglm

ware are you getting the vin from maybe somebody switched console lids

itsMikey

sounds pretty sketchy

scottmoyer

The VIN won't tell you the car is black. I'm just a little confused on some of the details

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like another poor CarFax report.

OP, what is your VIN?

mr.camaro

On carfax it says its black dunno if there wrong. The vin on paper and on the dash are xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Is there a vin anywhere else on the car? Because the only things not iroc that i see are cluster and dash badge (was the normal CAMARO one) so if you change the whole dash does the vin come with it?

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Open the drivers side door and look near the striker on the door. There should be a vin there as well along with what tire size to run on the car. If it says you need to run 16" tires and the vin matches the dash then you have a real iroc. If it says 15" (not available on irocs in 86) then you dont.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That S in the 8th position identifies the VIN as belonging to a V6 car. The VIN will not tell you the model (Sport Coupe, Z28, Irocz), and it won't tell you the color. It just tells us it's a 1986 Camaro with a V6 built at the Norwood plant.

Judging from the pic in your signature, if that's the car in question it's a fairly convincing clone if the VIN is correct for the car. It's possible someone could have swapped VIN tags with another car, but that's highly illegal. You might want to look around for another VIN number, or partial VIN number to identify the car, but ultimately if the VIN under the dash says it's a base model, that's what you've got.

mr.camaro

Ok didnt find a vin in the door, but it said 215/xx/15" for tire size and the sticker on the underside of the hood says 5.0 with spark plug gap (if a clone probly a iroc hood). And yes that is my car in my sig. As for me saying its black sport coupe that is what carfax sais.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

That door isn't original for an 86 IROC then. Could you read the model year on the sticker? It's near the top when referring to it complying to emissions standards for XXXX model year.

mr.camaro

Pritty sure the year is 85 on the door. i could take a pic..

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like you've got a bit of a gremlin on your hands, lol. But hey it looks very nice for a clone at least. Someone did thier homework! Do you have the RPO code list in the glovebox still?? If so I believe a real IROC will have a B4Z code listed. Don't know camaros much though personally. Still doesn't explain the VIN error either...

mr.camaro

No codes in the glove box .

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

There should be a VIN on the hood as well, check that.

EDIT: Running the VIN through compnine gives you this list of RPO codes that would've been found in the center console originally, if that VIN is for your car. It's not necessarily complete, but it gives you an idea:

http://www.compnine.com/vid.php?vin=1G1FP87S8GN107685

According to that, your car is a base coupe...finished in gunmetal gray, with a gray interior.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

I am not sure about 85, but in a lot of years there are vins everywhere. Fenders, rear hatch, doors, etc. if you feel so inclined to start scouring your car.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Here's a post on VIN locations, but it may or may not be useful on a pre-'87 car. Still worth a look though.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...locations.html

Drew

iTrader: (58)

They didn't add the VIN tags all over the car until 87... It was a theft counter measure, to make stolen car parts easier to track. It didn't work too well, that's why it went away a few years later and the VATS system came into use...

There may be partial vins stamped in the body (obviously a vin on any part that can be removed isn't much use) but you'd have to remove body parts to get at them. For some reason I'm thinking under the fender on one side or the other there might be a tag or stamp, but I wouldn't pull the fenders just to see...

The VIN that matters isn't from an Iroc. So either the tag is from another car, or someone put all the parts on a base model V6 to build a clone. Either way it's not a documented Iroc under the best case, and under the worse case it could be a stolen, salvaged, or otherwise illegal car. You might have real problems getting that car registered in some states without more then one VIN number.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

that car sounds too complete to be a clone. It even has the wonderbar? I'm going to guess that the car is a real IROC, but it is stolen and has had another VIN and cluster swapped in...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I agree, it's a very convincing clone; almost too convincing that someone would go to that much work to turn a sixer into an IROC, with that level of accuracy. If I saw that on the street, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to assume it was a legitimate IROC.

Who would really put that kind of money into a six?

OP, the VIN says the car should be gunmetal gray with a gray interior. If you pull the carpet up a little bit, you should be able to see what color the floor boards are. If they are gray, I'd say you have your answer. If they are red, I'd strongly lean towards it being an illegally VIN swapped car, and likely stolen/salvaged.

Do you have any other pics for us to look at?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Someone with an Iroc that was terminally damaged, had a screwed up title, was stolen, rusty, or otherwise had a reason to just swap all the parts over to a clean donor vehicle. Or someone that REALLY wanted an Iroc and couldn't afford or find one at the time. The only part that would really be unusual is that someone took the time to do it well enough that it looks the part.

mr.camaro

Thanks puma1552 for that info very helpful aswell as vin location thread!Here are some pics of the car, mabey some can judge and see what you think.



This is when i bought it in 07, right after 5.7 tpi swap (was 5.0 tpi when i got it) and refresh rims.



And now (i added the IROC-Z dash emblem was the base camaro one and 4thgen front seats)

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

That was more what I was getting at; I can't imagine your average hillbilly in any of the above situations you listed would really go the whole 9 yards and make a clone properly.

I'm curious to know if the floors are red, under the hood is red. I have a feeling it's a real IROC with a shady history. Compnine also shows it should have a gray interior, it appears to have been completely swapped to black, 100%.

I really think it's a salvaged/stolen IROC that's had the VIN swapped.

EDIT: Compnine, though to be taken with a grain of salt, doesn't have CC1 T-tops, further making me believe it's a VIN-swapped car.

mr.camaro

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Door tags appear original, build date looks like 09/85, making it an early '86 model.

Red overspray under the car, all the way into the tranny tunnel as seen from the factory...can you pull the carpet up and look at the floor board color from the interior, OP?

mr.camaro

Yes i should get a chance to do that tomorow after work i will post pics.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Do that and get back to us, otherwise look hard for other VINs elsewhere on the car. Personally, I don't think you'll find that "S" vin anywhere else on the car. To me, it seems like a legitimate IROC, and if the floors are red from the inside, which I think they will be, to me that would almost seal it as certainly not a car born with the current VIN tag. As Drew said, at best it's an IROC with a shady history that can't be documented/proven.

What else do you know about the history of it?

mr.camaro

I randomly saw this car for sell in a dealer for 2500$ back when i was 17, got it for 2000. The noob i was i asked if it was a real iroc he said yes i didnt even look at the papers to see 2.8 before buying it. I know the owner of the dealer has a colection of camaro's and he brought this one from his personal colection to sell. thats about it and car fax said it was bought in ontario in 86 sold in 87 same owner until 2006 (yeah 19 years..) and was wrecked and put back on the road 2 years later in the 90's. What i find strange is that my dad has a truck with salvage title and was put back on the road like my camaro. On his paper it sais REBUILT or somthing but not on my camaro papers and on my insurance they wrote camaro Z28.. just weird loll


EDIT: I just rememberd when i bought it it had sign exhaust on it like v6 not the 3" it has now

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

it would have had single exhaust from the factory, 2.75" diameter.

It also apears to be a factory AC delete car. Interesting story here...

mr.camaro

Ok so i checked the floors there red and every where else i can see on the body, interieur looks original and is 100% black. Do the rear quarters look factory painted to you guys? I was suprised at how rust free my car was, never really took the time to check. Here in Quebec weather is pritty nasty somtimes with the salt and everything.. i owned 3 other 3rd gens and seen alot and clean like this is rare wich makes me think this might be a US car.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Titles can be "washed" by transferring the title through states that are less strict. Carfax is also pretty bad about documenting older cars. One of my cars shows a mileage discrepancy during the time period I've owned the car, and where the mileage has only gone up. They also show a few of my old cars as being guaranteed even though they were totaled and crushed.

It's a pretty safe bet that the VIN tag doesn't belong on that car. How it got there is anyone's guess, but it's worse then a "salvage" title in my opinion. Legally you don't really own your car.

83C_CamAroZ28

iTrader: (12)

2 me it seems like sumone had a chop shop and stole the car and just swaped the vin #...but that's just me...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I'm quite sure that VIN has been swapped, close to 100% certainty now.

Beyond that I don't think there's much we can do for you unless you can find another VIN somewhere on the car that we can run to try and get some history.

mr.camaro

Yes i agree, in that other post about vin location i think they talked about it being behind the heater on the firewall for pre 87. I will take a look when i have the time, any other places you guys think might be promising?

Iroctopless

Do you still have the original 305 (assuming it was the original engine)?
It'll have a partial VIN . . . https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...h-numbers.html

stealthroc89

The vin's gotta be from another car. It costs more to clone a car than buying a real one, unless you have a complete doner car. I don't know of any V6 cars that came with 4-wheel disc brakes, not saying it's not possible though. I don't know of any other way to get to the vin other than going through the windshield.

mr.camaro

Talked to my friend today he said he might know where my old 305 is. I will try and get that vin in front of the head. Thanks for the help everyone!

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

That car is in great shape, it is very similar to my 86 Z28. My car has the full deluxe interior in black, power windows, power door locks, power hatch release, 305 TPI with a 4 speed automatic.

I also noticed that your car is a T-top car... did they make T-top V6 cars?

I am going too look and see if I can find the vin in other locations on my car.

stealthroc89

Yes, V6 cars can have t-tops too

mr.camaro

Thanks Lucid that would be very helpfull! Do you have a pic of the interieur? and is your z28 4wheel disc posi?

okfoz

Supposedly there is a VIN stamping around the antenna area under the fender... I think you have to remove the fender... so... it may be a bit of work to find.

John

mr.camaro

Just last year i replaced the whole front end (bumer+fenders), if only i would of known lol. It shouldent be to hard for me because they where removed recently

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Unfortunately, going from what's seen here, you don't own that car. You own a wrecked V6 car that was likely crushed (and stripped of it's VIN) years ago. It sucks, but I believe you need to have the car inspected by the state highway patrol (well, the equivalent up there anyway) and determine if the car is stolen or not. With any luck, it's not and something legal can be done with the title situation.

This subject is a bit of a sore spot for me. My first IROC was stolen and never recovered... I'd be tickled pink if the car turned up once again.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

I can take one for you during the day. The car originally came with a 10 bolt open unit with 2.73 gears and drum brakes but I swapped in a 9 bolt posi with 3.27 gears.

nascar2496

iTrader: (2)

the full vin is behind the heater box on the firewall. I had mine out on my 86 and 83 and it was there stamped into the firewall. there is really no easy way to change that vin unless it was filled in but you would notice it.

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

My car has been sitting for awhile because of transmission issues and it had built up a lot of dirt inside. I spent a few hours cleaning and spraying protectant on the interior panels, but its still pretty dirty.

The front seats have seat covers on them, and the passenger side still is the original seat in decent shape. The drivers seat is now a grey firebird seat that I am going to recover with the original deluxe seat upholstery.