Jason E

This car...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...2-5-400-a.html


OR...

86 TA
LB9/AT
30,800 miles, verified by Carfax
All power including seat
Hardtop
4 wheel disc
Posi
Spent $1,500 in 2k miles fixing everything up from MAF to exhaust to brakes.

Drives flawless. Beautifully tight. Interior is almost mint...only the radio does not work (plays tapes, but no AM/FM). All the inside needs is a CD player and the steering wheel re-wrapped to be 100%...oh yeah, the carpet is ripped off of one kick plate a little.

Downside? It needs a paint job. Badly. Typical hood/roof/fender tops chipping and rust. Spoiler is no good. It has 4 good Comp TAs on good 15" wheels...one is oxidized a little, the other 3 are clean. Underside is perfect.

$3,500 is the price...he'll take $3,000-3,250. No 350 or t-tops like the other one, but how can you argue with 30k miles?

JT

iTrader: (1)

Was it sitting outside for a long length of it's life to need paint "badly"? I know the paint from the factory was poor, but if it were taken care of, it still should be decent at 30K miles unless it was stored outside?

I favor the Pontiac Trans AM over a Camaro in general. However, a good paint job will cost you. You'll then have a 30K Trans AM that doesn't have a lot of desirable options. If it were a 1985 with the 305, it might be different. Having only 15" wheels, I'm guessing it's also not a WS6 suspension.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Depends on what you want it for. For a driver I'd take the other one... LB9 + AT = blah.

Jason E

1) I honestly want it for a clean, quality example of a nice original third gen. The only 2 modifications I'd make total are black GTA wheels, and I'd add a hood bird when I paint it. That's all. I've never owned a low mileage, tight nice V8 third gen...,my RS has 4 times the mileage.

2) It did sit outside for some time when the original female owner lost interest. The 2nd owner has had it for 5 years. The inside is mint...on the outside, the clear and paint are peeling off the hood and roof.

3) Where's the RPO sheet? Is it in the console like Camaros? I opened it up and it had the cassette tape holder in it...didn't think to take it out.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The SPID is on the inside wall of the center console lid. The cassette holder would block the SPID sticker.

Any pictures?

okfoz

Out of the box, the 1989 350 was a hotter car, The 1986 TPI were really lack-luster... I think it makes it hard because the cars are priced comparably and its 6 to one half dozen the other... I think the 1989 would be more fun, but I am with JT, I like the TA better for looks, but with 15" rims its probably not a WS6 car, unless somoene changed them out.

Keep in mind that in 1986 WS6 did not determine rear disc brakes like it did in 1982 & 1983...

John

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Okfz is right...The 350 tpi's are more fun compared to the 305 tpi/auto..i have both combos and you can tell the difference...Thats why i am upgrading my heads, cam & exhaust. One thing to keep in mind..Low miles dosen't always mean the car will be better than a higher mileage car...A lot depends on how a car has been taken care of.

Jason E

Well, I ended up striking a deal for $3k with him...he's driving it over to my house tomorrow night. I checked with my best wholesaler in the event I decide I made a mistake, and he said he'd cut me a check for $2,700...so I know I bought the car ok.

I know a TPI 305 is not a 350. I have an LT1 when I really want to go quick, and I'm storing for my dad his '00 SS with 8,900 miles on it...that will be mine within a year as well, probably. I can go fast in other cars. I like this one because I love the style, the smooth torque of the TPI, and the fact that it is without a doubt the tightest third gen I've driven.

Unfortunately, when the owner removed the casette holder, the SPID sheet is no longer there. He said you can see where it was ripped off. I guess its off to PHS for me! I'm hoping it at least has G92...but if it doesn't, oh well.

I think I bought well...my plans for this year are simply to drive it a little and enjoy the drive. Paint will not happen before next year. Eventually, it will be repainted 100% stock...except for adding an '86 correct hood bird

Oh yeah...and black repro GTA wheels!! Pics to come...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Congrats Jason. It's getting tougher and tougher to find a low mile, unmolested, original car. Just from your description and what you paid - you done good.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'd question that mileage. My 86 WS6 T/A had 177,000 on the odometer and still had the original paint and decals. The paint was shot, but it was still original. It was a LB9/auto too. 1986 is the year the LB9 took a big hit in the name of emissions. The 85's are faster. They're really really really weak for a 305. Fortunately, 2 days after I bought mine the 305 threw a rod. After a year or two, a couple engine swaps, and replacing nearly everything under the sun, it was an ok car... Until the 700R4 went out. Musical transmissions later, I finally dumped the car for about what I had in it.

My preference is 89-up cars. The build quality is better, and the TPI had most of it's wrinkles ironed out by then.

Jason E

The previous owner questioned the mileage as well...he showed me a 2005 dated Carfax that showed the car had like 23,000 miles on it in '99. He has repair orders for different work that show the mileage as 28,500 or so when he bought it in '05. The Carfax didn't show much for records before '99, which isn't uncommon for a lot of the cars I've looked at. Its funny how spotty Carfax gets for older cars.

While the exterior denies the mileage, the interior does not. Its like brand new. Everything from perfectly tight sealing windows to upholstery to quick window motors to, well, you name it...works as it should. The leather wheel is kinda twisted up, but how many are not?

I tend to believe the story that the original owner was a heavyset lady that didn't fit in it after owning it for awhile, so she parked it later on, outside on her driveway. This guy bought it from her brother, who had no use for it. It explains the immaculate undercarriage and wheels that are virtually un-oxidized (both of which are nearly impossible to find in salt-laden New England).

The car drives and looks way too nice inside to have more mileage. I'm shocked there isn't any sun fade inside...maybe that's par for the course when you don't have t-tops and the trunk has a shade???

As for the engine being weak, I certainly wouldn't call the car fast. But the torque of the TPI is pleasant, and it moved right up to 60-65 on the test drive just fine. I know '86s fell to 190hp, but nearly 300 lb/ft of torque helps things a little I could mod it up some, but then that gets rid of the originality. Again, if I want to go fast...I have other cars that do that quite well

okfoz

Is it a Norwood or a Van Nuys car? I know that the Norwood cars usually had better paint, than the Van Nuys cars because of the emissions of CA...

Interesting how Emissions controls really seem to make "things" worse, and are intended to be better for the environment... you would think they could come up with something that worked well and was not bad, or tasted good but was not bad... Drew stated (correctly mind you) that "1986 is the year the LB9 took a big hit in the name of emissions." and then you consider that CA has such emissions standards that the paint sucked that they had to use to meet those emissions...

John

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I wouldn't put any faith in Carfax, especially if they don't have complete records. All Carfax looks at when determining if mileage is accurate, is if there are records showing the mileage went backwards. Case in point, Carfax shows my Formula with a mileage discrepancy while I owned the car. Obviously the mileage has only gone up while I've owned it. But yet Carfax disagrees. Assuming the odometer rolled over or was changed before the Carfax records begin, OR as long as the numbers are progressively higher with no oddities, they will say it's accurate.

Sometimes you gotta play detective and use your best judgement. Aside from door dings, rock chips, and rough paint, my Formula looks nearly mint condition. It shows almost 130,000 on the odometer. The mileage doesn't matter nearly as much as condition.

It's also extremely easy to reset thirdgen odometers to any mileage you want. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, since anything that old is usually considered exempt anyway.

Jason E

I just ran a Carfax on it here at work...as I've discovered with other older cars that I've run Carfaxes on years before, and again recently, more information is on the later Carfax.

The earliest record is 1995, when it had 22,900. Had 25k in '97, then 27k in '99. I think years ago CT did inspections every 2 years, so the fact that these are the only records make sense.

It falls off the map until 2005, when the current owner bought it with 28,800. 2 inspections later, its got a sticker good until November That's a good thing...the SES light is on, despite running perfect. Hopefully its nothing big...but the car won't get a MA sticker with the light on. One less thing to worry about this year...the car isn't going to see much use this year.

okfoz

One thing that I noticed is Autocheck with Carfax often gets you a more complete picture of the car...

John

Drew

iTrader: (58)

What I'm getting at (if it's still fuzzy) is if the car had 100,000 miles when it was registered in 1990, Carfax wouldn't know about it and it would still give the mileage a clean bill of health. Even if the car has a million mile odometer (most later Firebirds and 140mph speedometers do) there's still nothing to say the odometer couldn't be changed.

Carfax is a gimmick for selling cars. It's pitched at buyers because it's a security blanket. "Oh look, it's got a clean Carfax! You should buy it!" It's a great selling point for dealerships.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Post those pics Jason, can't wait to check it out!

Jason E

I know exactly what you're getting at. I've sold cars now for 10 years, and I'm fully aware Carfax is at best a sneak peek into a car's rough history (especially when it gets old)...at worst, its used as a crutch for someone who cannot think for themselves.

When you look at this car, its hard to dismiss the story behind it. The doors open and close like brand new. The windows are not loose. The upholstery looks brand new. The undercarriage is impeccable. The PW and PL work perfect. There isn't a single squeak or rattle in the entire car. Even the white on the door lock switches is factory fresh.

This will be the 4th third gen I've owned...far less than many on this board. But, I know factory-tight versus old and worn. My RS has 116,000 miles on it...everything I stated above was absent in my RS before I refurbished it.

Pics to come...tomorrow, hopefully

rideon1200

The car has 30000 miles, no private individual is going to roll back milage on a $3000 car, come on. The lady getting fat makes since, only fat middle age women brought these cars when they were new. Used to joke about it all the time when these cars were new. Not everyone has a garage to store a car in. I dont, turned mine into a man cave. Enjoy your new 30000 mile car!