pascal_91ta

hello thirgen members

i asking me, how rare my car realy is.


i have a Trans Am WS6 1991, Bright Red, Glas T-Tops, the Black Diamond Rims, 305 TBI V8..
The Grey Cloth Seats, base Firebird lights.., all decales, all center caps...

here some pictures








the car is absolutly orginal, just new brakes (2 discs and 2 drums in rear) and a new cat, ah and a chip from tbichips because i want rid of the speedlimiter. i want install a GMMG cat-Back and i installed a tranny cooler and maybe i will buy in a year or so leather seaths form a GTA.

the car has absolutly no rust, never driven in winter..:


the car has 80'778 miles


maybe you can help me, how much worth and how rare-or not- it realy is

L695speed

Two things throw me off, one the base Firebird lights, two to my knowledge the TA was only available with the TPI. Look at the Drivetrain list in the specs on the homepage.

Lastly WS6 was probably included on half the third gen Firebirds, Trans Ams, GTAs built.

pascal_91ta

its a Europe Version, look at my ugly side mirros

I have the US Side mirrors and i wlil install it after winter.

Camaro Z Man

Your car looks nice, but I think you may have bought a Trans AM clone. Look on your rpo list for WS6. If you dont see that code, then I dont think it would be a TA. It is possible someone robbed the TA tail lights and swapped the TPI, I have seen that done as well. Also all Trans AM's came with leather wrapped steering wheel, shifter handle, and e-brake handle.

pascal_91ta

Thank you.

Its a True WS6 i messed the diameter of the front sway bar. the VIN says its a Trans Am at the 5 digit (W).
The VIN says also its a L03 digit (E) on 7 digit or so.

my wheel, ebrakne....handle.. comes with leather




i think the TBI V8 was used for export cars, like the ugly side mirrors and tail lights because some law stuff (yellow turn light....)

unfortunately i havent speed control and RPO sticker .


also i have only metric gagues.

Camaro Z Man

Can you get a pic of the RPO Code list ? If that is a real TA it would be the first 91-92 TA I have ever seen with the TBI motor.

pascal_91ta

sadly i havent the RPO sticker
but i can make a censored photo of the VIN

L695speed

Well if it is an export car the Firebird tail lights make sense because of European lighting laws as well as the Mirrors because I have seen those mirrors on Export cars as well as early GTAs. Also your speedo seems to be in KPH. The motor still doesn't click though. Camaro Z Man is right though. You will need the SPID sticker with the RPO codes to be sure look on the inside of the console it should be on the underside of the lid or in one of the storage compartments in the hatch area. I am thinking Export car maybe....if not a badly done clone.

Censor the last 6 numbers of the VIN. But submit it at your own risk.

pascal_91ta

well, the cars registered (get the license Number plate) in switzerlands first at 27.03.1991, i dont think that this will be a clone?!
the VIN also says "W" for TRANS AM and "E" for L03 TBI?!??i dont think its a clone?!????!??


i also have a swiss law sticker in the motor bay who also says its a Trans Am... i will upload a picture of it in some houres im not at home rihgt now...
think about the operating expense in europe for doing this in 1991.....

also the lights in the front are different, because the orange park light is not street legal here in switzerland. i will upload pictures when im at home

also the sidemarkerds in the front are also disabled, they just light when you "give order for a turn" (blink?!) sorry for my english.

L695speed

Definitely an Export car then and a Real Trans Am the VIN leaves no doubt. Not many third gens were imported to Europe. Your car is probably to Europeans what a Renault R5 is to people in the US. Not many in the country or the continent thus it is a rare car in Europe. But bring it over here and with the exception of the LO3 and the Firebird Taillights and Mirrors people will think its just another Trans Am no big deal about it.

Export cars are definitely rare because of as you said, the operating costs of driving those cars in Europe not to mention exporting parts and etc for repair.

scottmoyer

Guys, you need to remember that everything we know about these cars is based on US known production. The rules change on taillights for both the Camaro and the Firebird based cars used as exports. There are other differences like side view mirrors and side marker turn signals. This car is more than likely legit and the export cars might not have gotten the TPI due to import regulations on the motor.

Because of these variances, giving information on rarity and value is not something US based enthusiasts can provide. The value will need to be determined by local collectors and rarity can probably be determined by contacting the auto importers.

L695speed

I am not trying to place a value or declare its rarity but I do know they are rarer and harder to find overseas than they are here.

Toyota h8r

all i know is the 91-92 trans am's are more common than here in the us.

car looks clean

more pics of the export mirrors? looks cool

pascal_91ta

yes, here are more pictures, the Export Mirrors looks like damn ugly, there are plastic mirrors on every export car BLACK. i have here the Orginal US electrics mirrors, i will let them paint and mount them after the Winter:





Export Lights (Switzerland):
(white parking light)


Swiss Law Sticker:


i also have aloy presure caps on all rims. I also have a "whater wheel guard", that you need here in switzerland suddenly.

The Side Turn Signal in the dash lights up in Green, i think in US its Orange?
i

L695speed

My 84 is a US car obviously and the turn signal indicators on the dash light up green, the gauges light up orange.

pascal_91ta

and how much worth my car is what you guys think.

and how rare? ok its an export but yea....

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

Its pretty cool actually, sounds like it has an interesting story.

okfoz

Actually this car is not the first one to turn up. It seems that the Exported Trans Am was available with the LO3, Also they came with the Base Friebird taillights for some reason. I am not sure why honestly but I can assume that possibly they had the Base bird lights already approved in the country and it was easier than trying to get the new ones approved. Some countries force the manufacturer to pay for changes when they want to update a car, so the more they keep that is already approved makes life easier and save money. I would think they attempted to get the 91-92 T/A taillights approved but for one reason or another they were not successful. I suspect the Trans Am taillights were denied because the Amber turn signals on the outside may not have met standards as it would be reasonable to think that the outside lights should be Red as to indicate the edge of the car. I cannot think of any other cars where the furthest outboard light is amber... Someone will be able to think of one, but I cannot think of any.

(I work with the FAA and foreign governments for aircraft, I can only imagine that Auto is similar to Aviation as some foreign countries require payment to get new parts "approved" fortunately here in the US it is tax payer payed.)

John

Mark_Fbird85

Great looking car you have! I've got exactly the same story here. My T/A is from '91, with factory 5.0 TBI, base firebird taillights, WS6 package and 16" in. black Diamond rims and gray interior and 2.73 Limited slip. Only converted that ugly european mirrors to Us-style. One thing that disturbs me in euro versions is that front side markers are not working all time (only blinkers) and park lights are white instead of orange :/ ( it looks way cooler - I have canadian version firebird also)

pontiacguy1

The reason that they used the base firebird tail lights is because European countries require a separate amber turn signal indicator. The base Firebird has a separate amber turn signal light, where the Trans-Am has only the red lights and combines the brake and turn signals.

I guess Pontiac figured that using the base car's tail lights would be easier than trying to come up with something different only for export cars.

I've been through the corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY. The corvettes have red-only turn and tail lights, but any of the ones for export to Europe have an amber section on the bottom of the outside lense where there is a separate turn signal bulb and pocket. You could easily tell the ones that were bound for Europe because of the different tail lights.

pascal_91ta

GREAT color! I LOVE it. my second fbody, of course i keep mine 91'ta,will be a 87-90 GTA, i hope i find one in youre color! Awesome color.

orange/white blinkers are not street-legal in switzerland ....damn.

i wounder how rare thouse export cars are and how rare 91-92 ta's generally.

okfoz

You are correct, they require the separate amber turn signals. Keep in mind however the 1991 & 1992 Trans Am and GTA used separate Amber turn signals in the lights as well. The 1982-1990 Trans am used a completely red as did all US firebirds and S/E's in 1982 - 1985.

John

thomas1976

To keep the information gathered.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...d-91-92-a.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ariations.html

All LO3 "powered" WS6 Trans am's and Formula's I have seen were built in Van Nuys CA. And were originally imported in Austria and Switzerland.

Some wery rare 87-90 LO3 Trans am's even came with the completly red tail lights and had the luck and privilege to keep them.

thomas1976

In this case your car must have be put in circulation in Switzerland (or Austria?)

The orange T2057NA bulb can be found (it is also used on other cars), and like 50% of cases, the wires have just been spliced and put togheter differently and you may just reconnect as original. Other 50% have removed a long part of original wire.

avro206

Why do you think you have WS6? Have you looked in the rear hatch cubby hole for the RPO list?
(nice car BTW)

pascal_91ta

because the diameter of the front sway bar is 36mm and the diamond spokes and the center caps and the little dash emblem "Performance Suspansion".

zXtreme92

It is rare here to find one in good shape,,,as mine is,

Mark_Fbird85

Yeah... I will deffenetly turn that side markers on, with only tail sidemarkers car looks weird.
My car have also WS6 option so I think it's just difference among the engines compared to US versions, just lowest Trans Am engine ver. available in europe.

avro206

ah if you measured the front sway bar accuratley..I see.

Just FYI---"performance suspension" on the map pocket means nothihng---by it self. My friends 91 TA says that....but it has the F41 suspension.

PontiacV8

...it depends on the european country the Trans Am first was exported to/market for...

...most (or all) the regular 91/92 Export-TAs for Germany got the LB9/5.0TPI...
...all the german licensed Tbi-equipped 91/92 TA-models I saw here in Germany were former regular Switzerland or Austria export-models...
(btw...regular RPO-codes for all european exports are "MAE" and "EXP")



@pascal_91ta:
a little in german (lazy for translation ):
...um Deine RPO-Codes in Erfahrung zu bringen genügt es, wenn Du einen offiziellen GM-Händler (kein Opel ) aufsuchst. Der kann Dir zwar keinen neuen RPO-Sticker besorgen, aber er kann bei Eingabe Deiner VIN in seinen "Service-Computer" die Codes explizit für Deinen Wagen abfragen/auflisten und ausdrucken... ...das funktioniert zumindest bei Fahrzeugen ab Modelljahr 1990...

pascal_91ta

werd ich machen, thank you

okfoz

Rough Translation...
If you go to an official GM Dealer (Not Opal) They can provide you with a printout of your RPO's Not an RPO Sticker. A List/Query can be printed for your vehicle by using your VIN into the Dealer's "Service Computer". if your car is 1990 Model Year or newer.

John

blg0720

I think I'd rather see base tail lights than the improvisations they did in early years...like this one, a Holland Import. I think this looks rather odd...

PontiacV8

...yes, that's what I was talking about...

...thank you, John

pascal_91ta

I asked a GM Shop for the RPO and well, they can help me. heres the RPO of the car:


RPO CODE:

829: SEAT BELT COLOR, MED DK GRAY (91)
82C: TRIM COMBINATION, CLOTH, MED DK GRAY (C) (91)
81Q: MOLDING COLOR, BRIGHT RED (91)
18P: WHEEL COLOR, CHARCOAL MET (91)
Y83: MERCHANDISED PKG, TRANS AM
WS4: MODEL CONVERSION, TRANS AM
VK3: LICENSE PLATE, FRT MOUNTING PKG
821: INTERIOR TRIM (DARK MEDIUM GRAY)
81U: PRIMARY COLOR, EXTERIOR, BRIGHT RED (91)
1SB: OPTION PACKAGE 02
WS6: PERFORMANCE PACKAGE, SPECIAL
V78: VEHICLE STATEMENT DELETE
U75: ANTENNA, POWER, RADIO
U18: SPEEDOMETER, INSTRUMENT PANEL (KILOMETER)
UQ1: RADIO PROVISIONS, FOR STEREO
UB3: CLUSTER, INST, OIL, COOL TEMP, VOLTS, TRIP ODOM, TACH
QLC: TIRE ALL, P245/50ZR16/N BL R/PE ST TL HW4
N65: WHEEL & TIRE,SPARE, SPACE SAVER, STEEL
NA5: EMISSION SYSTEM, FEDERAL, TIER O
MD8: TRANSMISSION, AUTO 4 SPD, THM 700 R4
L03: 5.0 LITER V-8 TBI ENGINE
J41: BRAKE SYSTEM, PWR, FRT DISC, RR DRUM, CAST IRON
GU2: AXLE REAR, 2.73 RATIO
E5Z: SPEEDOMETER ADAPTER (DELETE)
D81: SPOILER, RR, AERO WING
DE4: SUNSHADE, REMOVEABLE HATCH ROOF
DC4: MIRROR I/S, R/V, TILT, DUAL READING LAMPS
C49: DEFOGGER, RR WINDOW, ELECTRIC
B84: ORNAMENTATION, EXTR MLDG, B0DY SIDE
A31: WINDOW, POWER OPERATED, SIDE
AR9: SEAT, FRT BKT, EUROPEAN STYLE, PASS A DRIVER RECL
AH3: ADJUSTER, 4-WAY MANUAL, DRIVER SEAT
U62: SPEAKER SYSTEM, DUAL COAXIAL
UX1: RADIO, AM/FM STEREO CASSETTE EQUALIZER
UL2: FREQUENCIES, EUROPEAN RADIO
T96: LAMP, FOG
PW7: WHEEL, 16 X 8, ALUMINUM, DIAMOND SPOKE
NP5: LEATHER WRAPPED, STEERING WHEEL AND SHIFT ****
MAE: MARKETING AREA, EUROPE
K60: GENERATOR, 100 AMP
G80: AXLE POSITRACTION, LIMITED SLIP
FE2: SUSPENSION SYSTEM, RIDE HANDLING
D42: SHADE, RR COMPT SECURITY
DD9: MIRROR O/S, LH & RH, RE4 CONT, ELEC, 8REAKAWAY,
C60: HVAC SYSTEM, AIR CONDITIONER FRT MAN CONTROLS
CC1: ROOF HATCH, REMOVABLE PANELS, GLASS
BC8: ORNAMENTATION, INTR, DR MAP POCKETS
AU3: LOCK CONTROL, SIDE DR, ELEC
AJ3: RESTRAINT SYSTEM, FRT SEAT, INFLATABLE, DRIVER
AAA: 4-WAY MANUAL SEAT ADJUSTER


+


EXP = ?
MX0 = ?
VC5 = ?
2FZ = ?

For what stands those other RPO codes?

Bowtiebruiser

I dont know what source that came from but there are plenty of TBI 5.0 T/A's I see one daily.

Mark_Fbird85

MXO : MERCHANDISED, TRANS, AUTO PROVISIONS, O/D
EXP: EXPORT VEHICLE
VC5: LABEL SHIPPING, EXCEPT US
2FZ: ?

Your car is same as mine only in red color

okfoz

IN THE US... The Trans Am was available with the 5.0 LG4 from 1982 - 1987 and the LO3 from 1988 & 1989. Starting in 1990 Trans Am's IN THE US got the LB9 engine as the base engine. If you wanted the LO3 you had to opt for the Formula or the Firebird.
1987
V6 - Firebird (S)
LG4 - Firebird (O), Formula (S), Trans Am (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (0), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)

1988 & 1989
V6 - Firebird (S)
LO3 - Firebird (O), Formula (S), Trans Am (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (0), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)

1990 - 1992 is pretty easy to remember
V6 - Firebird (S)
LO3 - Firebird (O), Formula (S)
LB9 - Formula (O), Trans Am (S), GTA (O)
L98 - Formula (O), Trans Am (O), GTA (S)

John

Bowtiebruiser

That would explain it then, J's 305 TBI T/A is an 88, that wasnt specified it said no 305 T/A's ever in the U.S. Thank you for clearing that up Ox

Hawkril79

Not sure about the hardtops so much i have a 91 ws6 convertible and i know there was only 550 made that year with convertible tops. But you do have a very clean car!!

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i dont really see too many 91 92 firebirds or trans ams... they are a rare site... but i never been a fan of the nose and somewhat smaller aerowing and side moldings..they remind me of a ninja turtle...i like the 85-90 bodystyle much better...

robotic_junky

Did anyone wonder why the European Trans Am didn't have the side vents on the fenders?

Also 91-92, you get the Trans Am appearance package on a base Firebird, which was just ground effects and fog lights.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

In this case, the T/A didn't have fender vents because they went away after 1990.

thomas1976

Was the WS6 and the G80, optional, on the base model firebird in the USA?

talover111

ws6 was a trans am,GTA and formula exclusive option(standard on the GTA and the formula) although i have heard that it could be had on the earlier firebird se

and the g80 is the code for posi-traction,limited slip and i guess it could be had with a base car someone correct me if im wrong on any of this thanks