stealthroc89

Your right, you don't have to be rich to do things right. Most of the time doing it the right way is more cost effective later on, as cheap parts wear faster. Then again, the right way is up to personal preference, be it new or junkyard.
I remember back when I had my 79 Z28, people looked at it like "when are you going to junk it already?". A car that sat in a garage for nearly 20 years (back in '98) before my dad bought it. The engine and tranny were alrady gone so my dad put the old race engine and TH350 in it, shot a new base/ clear paint job on it and threw on a set of Cragar Street Lites on it. The interior was flawless, hell the whole car was! That thing looked and sounded mean, no one cared, even the other kids at school lol, I didn't care I loved it. Sold it in '02 for $2800 and bought the roc. Now that car would go for $7000 easy. Regret it? Sometimes, when the rocs giving me hell. Now I feel like I'm back in that place again, guys at work look down on it, other people wondering when I'm going to put it out of it's misery, but getting the thumbs up every now and again. The moral to the story isn't getting me to sell mine so yours will go up in value! Our cars are in the dark period, but soon they'll be back in the light.

jharrison5

I want to chime in on this subject. I have owned a lot of F-bodies over the years and will own a lot more. In 1993 I bought a 81 Firebird Espirt for $1500, it had 87k on the odometer and was in great condition. A year later I bought a 79 T/A for $1000 and it was in similar condition as the 81. I was called every white trash name in the book for buying those two cars, but now people think they are the coolest cars ever.

I sold them both four years ago out of stupidity, but I made $11,000 off of them. All I did for ten years was maintain them and give them a proper home. In time our third gens will come around in price and popularity just as the previous generations have already.

With that being said I will keep buying up all of the cheap third gens as I find them. Now I do this because I love the cars and hate to see them mistreated and not as a way to make money in the future. At some point all of the "trailer park" rides will go to the scrap heap and our well taken car of rides will be the next stars of Barrett Jackson and Mecum. I watch the auctions with my dad all the time and he tells me stories of when the $100,000 Z28 that just sold could have been had for peanuts when he was my age.

Restoration parts are slowly coming on the market for our cars guys. In 1993 I couldn't find crap for my pair of birds and now I could almost build a car from catalogs parts alone.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that's exactly it. The thirdgen crowd, overall, has got to be the absolute cheapest of the cheap in ALL of the car world from what I've seen.

What we have, are 'poor people cars'.

90% of the people with these cars buy beaters because it's all they can afford, then go "I'ma gunna fix 'er up boy" and then go to Wally World and rattle can it because they are flat broke.

We bring ourselves down.

This is what I've been saying for a long time as well; this is why I'm pissed about the crappy-*** seat upholstery repops out there. Am I appreciative someone is making them? Sure, of course, it's a step in the right direction but cryin' out loud, at least try to get them close in color and appearance, and not just "good enough for those thirdgen guys." Of course if people buy them, it just shows that they are indeed "good enough" and nobody will try to make anything better. I didn't spend $1500 on NOS parts this week because I wanted to, I spent $1500 on NOS parts this week because I want quality parts that actually fit the way they are supposed to. With over $700 in my taillights alone now I'm scared to drive the car and get rear-ended.

The repro/resto parts for our cars are sadly still in their infancy; knowing what we know now about muscle cars and values increasing having learned from the past, it's a little scary that at 20-30 years old, knowing what we know, that there still isn't much for our cars. Sure when muscle cars were 20 years old there wasn't much out there--but people didn't realize what they were or would be worth. Today there's no reason not to have a market flooded with proper aftermarket parts, unless the cars truly are throwaways like people treat them. The way I see it, if these parts are in their infancy this late in the game, will we ever really get decent parts?

Well this is simple, they are cheap and old. It's how I got mine. I was 15, and I got damn lucky to get my one owner, bone stock, stored winters average miles RS for $4300. I still think I stole it being in the rust belt. Now that I'm 26 I could buy that $20k IROC, but the fact remains most of these cars are still cheap. Thing is though, look at my car in the sig; if I threw that car up for sale I bet nobody would offer more than $2500 here; too bad that's not reality though for what I see selling. I think people here have pretty warped perceptions of what these cars are worth, a clean IROC goes for no less than $8k here with a lot of miles and a questionable repaint or two and meh condition interior. I've seen cosmetically damaged RSs with 125k+ go for that. Clean originals with lower miles go for $15k+. What do I feel my car is worth in the rust belt with full service history and a spotless undercarriage? Based on what I see other beaters going for, probably $7k, but nobody *here* would ever pay that.

I agree, nobody wants to pay for the cars, nobody wants to pay for the parts. Hell how many people you think even put theirs in a garage at night? 10%-20%? I see far more pictures here in backyards/grass than I do garages, let alone driveways.

...which is why we look like total trash to the rest of the auto community.

This is true, it's an F-body stigma. We bring ourselves down. You don't see fox bodies with:

--Confederate flag headliners
--$50 wheels (bought used) hanging 3" out of the fenders and wondering why they aren't in a magazine
--Bedliner under the hood
--POR-15 and bedliner slathered on anything and everything they can
--Carbs where there once was FI
--Rattle can paint jobs
--Paint jobs done on wet dirt, in the garage, in the driveway, in the backyard, anywhere other than a paint booth (when was the last time you saw a resto thread here where someone had body work professionally done at a shop with a paint booth and went down and snapped pics every few days? I seriously think it's 85/15 of backyard paintjobs to proper paint jobs...this of course goes back to nobody has money to get a real paint job; and when you look in two threads, one of each, which one has more compliments? Take a guess, it's going to be the one that was painted for $15, and everyone else will aspire to do the same)

I mean do we do anything right or with any shred of pride? Of course if you dare say here that something looks like crap when it's pretty cut and dry, you're the jackass.

I was a member here ten years ago, for a few years. I got tired of seeing all the hackjobs and $5 cars with 5 cent parts, so I left and got busy with life for a while. Recently came back on, thinking our stigma surely was dying by now just to find that ten years later we are just as trashy as when the cars were at the true bottom of the depreciation curve. Problem is, if you did here what they do on the Stang forums, there would be a handful of people left and that's it. Yeah my car's not on the level of a 20k mile IROC, but hell I take perfect care of it, don't hack it, and am willing to spend the money for it.

The fact of the matter is, we as a whole do this to ourselves, and perpetuate our own image. The rest of the car hobbyists in other camps are right to laugh at us.

eseibel67

Ahh, no. Collusion by GN owners is not what's keeping the price up. When it comes to $ and cars it's every man for himself. The actual factor is microeconomics - supply & demand.

There's definitely a demand for nice Third gens, the problem is that it's going to take some time to burn down the 1.5 million units in the supply chain. The good news is that the number has been decreasing since 1992.

Prices will go up.

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Too many ****ing critics here, I swear. You guys aren't aware that **** SAME STUFF was done back in the day to the same cars that bring in the big money. I would know. I have one now. Besides, if it weren't for these guys that you complain about, what are we going to fix? That's another way to look at it.
I had a lot of bad spots on my car where rust came through. I painted my junkyard spoiler with rattlecan because my other one broke. When I got done, it came out SMOOTH, looked great, and couldn't tell I rattlecanned it because I know how to spray.
I temporarily covered a floorpan hole because I didn't have a welder at the time and I was still driving it. I STILL drive it every day and I can't afford anything to paint the car. Then I come and read this...I'm white trash, cheap, this and that...and you guys are complaining about what again?

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

You have a big money car but can't afford anything better than a rattlecan for your Camaro?

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

That's right. Because now my focus is on restoring the said car.
Have you ever priced out a paintjob? Anything better than maaco? Have you ever done it?

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, $6k-$12k to strip the car and have it professionally done. I know what it costs, pay to play.

jharrison5

92 Camaro I agree that there are different levels of "low cost" and "cheap". I try to save money every chance I get and there isn't a single member in this group that doesn't try too also. I have repainted a lot of my vehicles with a "rattle can" and it came out looking great. Why? Because I took the time and did the proper prep. I don't own a welder, paint booth, tube bender, blast cabinet, post lift or a lot of other shop equipment. I also don't have ready access to them so I make due with what I have. The white trash aspect comes into play when someone just doesn't care what they are doing. Case in point I have seen numerous posts of people finding the inside of their cars torched up over the fuel tank area. All because the guy was too lazy to drop the tank.

I have the luxury of being able to park my IROC for the winter since I live in the Midwest and own a 4x4. I don't make six figures and never will so my resto will take five or more years to complete. When it is done all the haters that called me trash can line up to kiss my butt.

stealthroc89

Theres always reasons for why a car is in a certain shape, I have a rattle can paint job. Why? After 2 accidents caused by people of the "illegal" orientation, I'm tired of putting in the work to get it looking good again. Insurance didn't cover the last one because my inspection was expired by 11 days, BS. Getting it repainted wasn't in the plans, didn't need to, so all my money was dedicated to the drivetrain. Untill all thats done it'll be rattle can black, plus it looks better than 3 different colors.

Where a person lives doesn't deterine who they are, whether they live in a trailer park or a mansion, the man makes the man. I'll probably get the trailer trash nod because I live in a manufactured home community and my Iroc looks like it's on its last leg. A 3rd gen in the same condition sitting in front of a nice brick home doesn't get the same "trash" tag. My point is, just because you can't see the work doesn't mean there isn't any.
Our cars aren't going to get the same recognition as the old muscle cars. Muscle cars became big when gas prices dropped and since factorys were still making low power they were the only high horse option. We however have to fight against high powered factory cars that do everything better than ours. Theres so many fast cars out there now that owning a 3rd gen is because you like it, not because it's one of a few options. If we had repeated the gas crunch in the late '90s, I think the way our cars are valued now would be different. 3rd gens aren't appreciated because theres so many "better" options out there.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

Who appraised your car @ 70K miles for $20K?

Type this in the search on ebay: 300487568553

14 grand, 2K miles. Less common car. Something is off.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

Did someone ever tell you that getting into a third gen that needed a Restoration was inexpensive? I'm 99% sure that no one did. 6K-12K for a paint job?! One word: networking. For the people out there paying premium prices for someone to do the work, they need to socialize and meet these people to find better deals.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I figure $6k is the bottom end, with $12k really pushing it; I want the car stripped to the shell, blasted, sprayed, and reassembled, engine bay and undercarriage. I figure a realistic price for that, for GOOD work is probably $9k-$10k.

There's a guy on here with a GORGEOUS blue 89 IROC for his son who did the disassembly and reassembly of the bumper covers/lights/GFX etc. and started with a very clean no rust car, with original paint. It ran him around $6k and that was the ballpark of all estimates, and I guess I'm looking to go further so I'm preparing for the worst case scenario.

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

although that's the price of a real high end job, exactly my point....
it isn't rusting and doesn't look stupid so I have nothing to worry about. you shouldn't either now.

88formulakiller, I don't understand what you're trying to say.

2E151

Its the truth. I know a "good ol' boy" out in the middle of nowhere, South Carolina, who will give me a solid paint job for about 1500. I'm talking proper prep work, any shade of paint I want, and a baking. Does it look like a 12K paint job? Nope, but it does look like a solid 6K.

Why? Because he used to work for my father. Down here we call that the "buddy roe" system.

It's all about contacts, if you don't have them you need to get them or your gonna spend twice as much restoring your car.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

Exactly. A friend of my g/f and i does body work on the side as a HOBBY... and a friend of his buys used cars and sends them to him to paint and then sell on a lot, so last year he painted 30 cars....and what did i do? looked over every black car he did (since mine is black and will get the same paint job) and every one of them looked A++++ professional. He is now gonna do mine, all body work, prep, paint and clear for under $800. So essentially im paying for materials, a few bucks and probably alot of Beer and Beer is CHEAP.

okfoz

As of 2 years ago, for all of the materials, from Paint, Primer, tape, masking, paper, and decals here is what I remember it being for Quality paint: This was MATERIALS only mind you, so do not think you can simply get someone to do it for free.

Sherwin Williams: $2500
PPG: 2000
Dupont: 1800


Sherwin had the most pigment, and I like their clear as it has the flex agent built right in. It ends up being rock hard, and the potential shine is stunning. Its what I used on my Yellow 87 Formula that I take to the Trans Am nationals...

PPG had good pigment as well, but I had to add the flex agent to the clear for the flexible parts, actually it sprays really well. I am using it on my convertible and a friends 86 TA, so far so good.

Dupont had the least amount of pigment, therefore its cheaper. I want better coverage, so I passed.

IROC#1

They actually made 2.5 million third gens (camaro's and firebirds) between 1982 and 1992.

IROC's are on the list for the next collectible...This was written 10 months ago
http://www.ridelust.com/10-badass-fu...r-20k-or-less/


As long as 16 year olds can buy a $1000 third gen you are always going to have rattlecan paint jobs and vinyl covered dashes! Once the supply of cheap cars runs out the teenagers will move on and the condition of the third gens on the road will go up dramatically. Personally, I get tons of compliments everywhere I go.

Dartht33bagger

I'm only 18 and have no job (trying really hard, but with 10% unemployment here in oregon there is just no jobs) and I try to keep my 91 Z28 perfect. I want to keep the car forever. If I even see something that has rust on it or even think of the idea of the frame bending I freak out. I do everything I can to keep it the nice car it is.

The thing is, I just don't have the money right now. I have about $1400, and I need new shocks/struts which will run me about $700 because I want to get good parts. Thing is, I have to go off to college next year, and I need to have some money saved up just in case. I'd love to get some sub frame connectors on my car because it would make me feel better, but I just don't have $200 to throw down on the car right now because I have little income.

Honestly we could complain all day about trashy cars, and back yard pics are terrible. However, if I see a guy that has rattle canned his car just to get some paint on it to keep it from rusting away for the time being, I think that's great. I'd rather see a white trash third gen on the road than a rusted out one.

On the other side of the septrum though, these ghetto *** wheels, crazy mods, weird paint jobs, wheels that jut out and overall just thrashing of the cars needs to stop. I'm 18 with no income, but I'm not going mess my car up by buying cheap parts. If there comes a time when I can't afford quality parts, it's going to sit in the garage and I'll drive my parents truck until I can afford it. Some people just need to realize that sometimes a car is on the brink of being ruined and just needs to take a break for a while in a garage.

Every time I see a third gen get wrecked on here or hear about one getting junked it just kills me, but in the end it will make my car worth more. In 2040 when all the white trash people junked their cars years ago, I'll still have mine in mint condition, and you can bet on if it ever gets wrecked and there is even a small chance to fix it I'm going to attempt to. Of course I could just buy a new one, but its MY car, I don't want another car.

2E151

Also, I gotta chime in on this. I don't know where you guys are, but where I come from 3rd gens & fox body mustangs have the exact same stigma.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

CERTAIN lower production models of our cars will be collectable in the future.
How much will they be worth? As so many before me have said, However much someone will pay. The car market is crazy and there is almost no possible way to speculate it.

I will just keep my car and do what I please with it. In the end there is one major thing you can count on, since all of the defining parts for these cars are bolt on, a good main body structure will be worth more then anything else.

Titles and vin tags can always be transferred. Even though it is illegal it will happen.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Illegally.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

One of the most inspiring things I have heard on this forum.

2E151

Double truth. Its bound to start happening once enough IROCs, Z28s, TTAs, GTAs and Formulas' start thinning out.

I would even say it’s inevitable. I know an individual who solely restores 1969 Z-28 Camaros. He hasn’t come out and said he buys hulks from junkyards and cuts off the vin plates, but he’s talked at great lengths about it and I suspect he does.



Give third gens another 10 years…

Iroctopless

What's off is . . .
- trying to compare US currency to Canadian (close but not quite)
- trying to compare asking price with appraised value (appraised almost always comes in higher as per my last sentence, "Of coarse appraisels do not reflect sale price.". My hypothetical asking price would likely be around $15-$16K because cars like mine do sell for that kind of money around here. Even these days.)
- trying to compare a car for sale in Arizona, US vs Alberta, Canada (Canadian prices almost always average higher.)

http://www.sunburnautoappraisals.com/ is who did the appraisel. They are also recognised throughout Canada by the auto insurance industry. Which is nice because, god forbid, should anything happen, my ride's agreed upon replacement value is also for slightly more than $20K Cdn.

stealthroc89

I wonder how big of an effect emissions testing has had on 3rd gens. Since my county has started requiring emissions testing I've noticed a big drop in 3rd gen sightings. I'm sure alot of them have just went to other places, but I bet quite a few have went to the scrap yard because the owner didn't think it was worth fixing. It's been a couple of years since I've seen an originally carbed 3rd gen, now that they're exempt now I thought I would see more, guess not. It's exiting to see one though, no matter the condition.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Im so glad MN doesn't require emissions testing (or any inspections period). So, so, glad. Nobody hassles me about anything I do to my car.

eseibel67

Yes, ALL car prices are lower in the USA.

And yes, appraisal values do not reflect market values. They appraise them that a value that's WAY higher than it's actually worth so that you feel confident that your appraisal fee was well spent. In fact, unless the car is ready for the crusher, they will appriase it for whatever you want.

And the insurance company doesn't care that the appraisal came in high because A) your paying a higher premium to protect your baby, and B) they get very few claims on toy cars.

So I wouldn't get too excited about the appraised value. The actual SOLD price is the only one worth reporting.

Iroctopless

Other than your first sentence, the rest is pretty much a load of innacurate generalizations. Sounds like you or somebody you know must have been screwed over at some point.
An industry recognised appraisal company will not risk their reputation in the automotive collector business by, "appriase it for whatever you want". That's one of the silliest comments I've heard in a long while. Many, like the one that I used, spend a lot of time going through the entire car, body, frame, structure, interior, electrical, and mechanical. Tons of photographs are taken, records and reports are created reflectiving the results of all the findings. Then extensive nationwide research is done on comparable vehicles including both the recent historical sales of said vehicles and other appraised values. It's a little more involved than just telling you want you want to hear.

And the statement about insurance companies don't care and charge higher premiums is also quite ignorant. Yes, this may occur, but it's also not always the case. If you do a little research to educate yourself, you will soon find that the most insurance companies across Canada, and likely the US, follow the same or very similar set of guidelines and codes. One of these is the 19 or 19A clause. Insuring your vehicle under this policy does not increase your premiums. It does not increase the insurance companies profits. It's a policy by which the insurance company will agree to replace your vehicle based upon it's apprasied value by a reputable appraisal company. In turn, you agree that if the market changes and the adjusters conclude that your vehicle is of a higher value, your claim is capped at the appraised value. That trade off is why the appraisel has no bearing on an increase in insurance premiums.

Another thing many are not aware of is that you can also borrow money from a bank based on the appraised value of your car and how it compares to market value. The appraisal carry's a lot of weight many may not be aware of.

And there's so much more to the whole "SOLD" price and appraised value that they are both worth reporting. While it's true that they rarely if ever line up, they definitly influence each other to the point that the subject can't just be ignored or shrugged off.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

actually what eseibel67 said is common practice in massachusetts

eseibel67

On the business side of our hobby, I'm going to continue to stick to the real world for now.

Iroctopless: You have an awesome car. Probably the top 3rd gen ever produced:

1989 was the sweet spot with improved brakes & exhaust, and no hiddeous airbag. Ragtop with manual transmission will assure your car will someday easily exceed it's appraised value.

icantdrive55

I’m curious and need to ask a question of other members here. Now, I’m 60, so I date back to the era of cheap fossil fuel, big block motors and crappy bias-ply tires. I’d love to own a 60-something GM Camaro-Firebird-Chevelle-Vette or Ford Mustang-Torino or Dodge Charger-Challenger….you name it. However, I don’t have the cubic cash for a nice one and they’re damn near impossible to find now for a realistic price. And I also understand the lure of shifting for yourself and prefer sticks to slushboxes. The only reason I own my ’89 RS vert w/700R4 is that I came across it in near-mint condition for a righteous price and knew that I could drive it without haing to put a lot of money or effort into making it nice. (Yeah, basically I’m a lazy bastard!)

Reading thru the threads here, it seems like the V-8 sticks get lots more “cred” than automatics. Also, the Z-badge gets way more play than an RS V-8, even though (at least in ’89) they made fewer RS verts than Z-verts, and the original sticker prices, HP ratings and option levels weren’t THAT much different. So….given the penchant of the 80’s Gen-3 T-5 for grenading itself when driven hard, esp if the motor’s been modded, why the big disparity in desirability-price-collectability over the automatic? Am I just showing my age? Inquiring minds wanna know.

88TransAmGuy

iTrader: (3)

Yeah i think the whole deal is the low mileage and how stock it still looks
Theyre considered hot rods now! haha

eseibel67

Those are easy questions to answer. The top model is always the most desireable, whether the performance is real or imaginary. That's just the way it is.

And as far as the auto/manual debate, the manual will ALWAYS fetch more $ as they get older. Many reasons, including exclusivity. But mostly, it's because although a daily driver has to be an automatic to keep your sanity, a toy car has to have a stick because it's part of the goofing off on a Sunday afternoon. They only break if you beat the **** out of them.

Jason E

The 1 major reason I have not already spent $4,500 (which I felt was a reasonable deal) to repaint my Trans Am is because in the event I need to resell the car, no one will actually pay me decent money for the damn thing

In my mind, a clean, 31,000 mile original TPI Trans Am that is 100% unmolested and PHS documented should be worth $10,000. Actually, apparently Grundy agrees with me as the car now has a $10,000 agreed value policy under Grundy. However, if I spent $4,500 on this car and more than doubled my investment in it (paid $3,000 for it originally...was shocked to find it so cheap despite needing paint), I'd be lucky to get $7,500 for it, likely. At this point, with the economy being weak and me being in car sales, I figure why expose myself in the car any more than I already have at this point?

I highly doubt I will ever sell the car. Actually, my completed, turn-key RS I'd likely sell first due to its high mileage and "low man on totem pole" status. However, after investing close to $15,000 restoring it, I put it on TGO for $8,995, and haven't received a nibble. Its gorgeous in fresh bright red with nice original leather, t-tops, 5 speed and tasteful mods like 17" polished Torq Thrust IIs, nice stereo etc. But, even on an "enthusiast's" site, I haven't even received a nibble/offer/nothing.

Unless its a super-low-mileage, mint original like my IROC, "enthusiasts" in the third gen community simply don't care about the cars they claim to enjoy so much. I agree...as the owner of three third gens now, and 5 over time, its sad to see these cars be the bastard children of the Camaro world.

Jason E

100% agree.

I drive my RS pretty hard (not racing, but having fun on the street) and with 119k on it the original T5 is doing just fine. It does balk at going into reverse every now and then (put it in 5th then reverse and its fine though), but otherwise its tight.

RSs are nice, but I wish I had invested the $15k into a TPI car. I'll never, ever get it back out of an RS

2E151

That's not always true. My first car was a manual transmission and I drove it everyday for 4 years, through the country, through traffic, through the mountains and through downtown Atlanta. After awhile your body just shifts and you don't think about it.

I'd prefer to have another stick daily driver.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I hear you Jason. Although I am currently going through a period of temporary insanity, (I am considering buying an '82 Iron Duke Camaro sitting in an Indiana junkyard), I think you always get the most bang for your buck with an original, low miles car, like your Trans Am and IROC.

As far as getting your money out of a car. Well, I feel your pain. I am quicky exceeding any reasonable return on my Crossfire. It's not even just the big ticket items, it's also the little costs which sneak up on you. $100 here, $150 there, it all adds up. But, what the hell, it's a fun hobby. I was whining to a couple of my Camaro pals that I've already got more into my '83 than I could ever reasonably sell it for. They gave me some good advice - they said, Charlie it's a hobby not a business.

Jason E

I give anyone credit for resurrecting a third gen that isn't worth nearly what you have into it I am a member of the club...and at this point, I love it for what it is, I drive the hell out of it and have a blast (at the end of the day, that is what its about, right??), and I don't worry about the odometer increasing At the same time, I will never, ever do it again

I know what you mean about small things creeping up. My TA cost me $3k but I have about $4k in it now, after buying everything from fluids to valve seals to console lids. Oh well...it drives like a brand new Trans Am. I have to force myself to drive the RS more than the TA because the TA is so fun to drive because of its "new car feel!"

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Your T/A is very nice Jason. I've promised myself that I'll only consider low miles, originals from now on, like your Trans Am (and IROC), that is, once I get this Iron Duke BS out of my system.

My '83 Crossfire - I was probably the only guy on the planet who would buy and nurture that car. I found it on a Wisconsin farm, filthy, running like ABSOLUTE crap, with a bunch of issues. The luckiest day of it's life was when it ended up in my garage. If guys like us don't give cars like these TLC, they're gonna be gone.

eseibel67

We all know that only the tiniest percentage of all the Third Gens produced will get any TLC from here on out. Too bad most of them are being melted down only to be reincarnated as refrigerators every day.

Jason E

I love the TA...the TA isn't the one I was referring to in that post...the RS was I can't tell if I confused the issue or not. The TA really will be a great car with fresh paint, a new steering wheel and a radio (the original doesn't work...been eyeing early '90s Pontiac CD players on eBay with iPod jacks added to them ). I am fortunate that many of the higher dollar items in the interior (seats, door panels, dash, headliner, plastics etc.) all look nearly new. I have some splits in the top of the rear seat back to tend to (typical Pontiac seat issue), but I've already been told by my upholstery guy he can glue and sew them back together by actually bonding the cloth back to the seat foam, then putting a tiny stitch in each one to help it lay flat. He swears I won't even see it. Interesting stuff. All are on the top...so no one is sitting on it anyway, and when I tint the windows you won't see the top of the seat thru the window anyway.

Like you, the luckiest days of the RS's and TA's lives were when they met me. For the RS, it was a $1,000 traded-in wholesale clunker that was heading to my best wholesaler until I saved it from the "back row" As my wife says now, only I would've loved that face back then I never, EVER thought it'd be the near-$15,000 investment it is now, but its far surpassed any expectations I had when I started. Other than the slightly-weathered leather seats, and the fact it wanders a little on the highway (either tires or front end...which is the only part that hasn't been touched yet!), its what they call a "Day Two" car. It looks like its showroom new, went home, went straight in the garage, and came back out with big tires, a thumping exhaust, a short throw shifter and a nice stereo

As for the TA, I cannot believe the original owner let the car sit outside for as long as they did and let the sun damage the paint. Amazingly, the interior suffered little, and the undercarriage is very clean. Also, it drives amazingly well...sitting outside seems to have done little to damage the bushings/suspension etc. Its totally tight. But I still cannot believe someone took a gorgeous car like this and let it sit. The second owner was better, but not much. He bought it in '05 with 28k on it, and left it outside under an all-weather cover that still leaked, apparently. He had TONS of air fresheners stuffed under the seats...masking a horrid mold odor. When I saw the carpet was a little damp one day, I pulled the carpet back to find standing water under the driver's floor Amazingly, there was virtually no rust to speak of, and the carpet has since dried with virtually no smell left.

Both cars have really benefitted from me

Jason E

One other thing...I want to re-iterate that I hope more and more people latch onto what's left out there for third gens. It does amaze me how many I see that are STILL being driven by teenagers and being beaten to hell. I don't see them on the road often at all anymore. And when I do, they are normally beat '91-'92 RSs, or '80s base Firebird coupes. Yet, whenever I drive the RS, people admire it everywhere. I wish more people admired them enough to save them!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

You were clear, just wanted to say it's a nice car.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Oh, and for the record, if I had run across a 5 speed RS like yours for $1000, I would have picked it up too....

Jason E

I wish I still had pics of when I got it, and the bodywork in process back in '07. Unfortunately, a punk kid broke into where we used to live and stole my wife's camera. We got all our stuff back, but the idiot had already deleted the pics off the camera

If I had to do it over again, I would've left everything stock. While the mods make the car more fun, in the end I spent over $4,500 on mods that didn't really add any value to the car. At least the exhaust, wheels and stereo could be swapped to the TA with ease if I ever chose to sell the car at a later date.

For the time being, its off the road for the winter with the other 3, and I miss it already Next year will be my first full summer with it on the road since I bought it in '06...hoping to put at least 5k miles on it next year!

Dartht33bagger

Hey I'm a teenager and my car is taken care of well. I just bought $700 shocks/struts and strut mounts today when I have no job lol

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I'd probably have done some things differently too. I mean I spent about a G-note on a custom bent exhaust. In retrospect maybe I should have just invested 20 bucks in a test pipe to replace the original clogged cat. But I'll tell ya, I couldn't wait to give my credit card to Iggy's muffler shop the day they did my exhaust. I guess it's sort of a sickness we have.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I notice this too, it's either beat 91-92 RSs or base birds, all beat badly.

I get an unbelievable amount of looks/compliments in my RS, and IMO it could use a nice respray. I too hope people latch on to every thirdgen they can and restore them. IMO for Camaros '90 is the best year, and I happened to get mine by chance, it just happened to be the right car.

It's a bit sad people put such a premium on the IROC over the RS though; I certainly understand it, and when I buy a house next year I may add a 15k mile original red IROC to the stable, but compared to how manufacturer's usually do things, the differences between an RS and an IROC are very few (for 305 IROCs anyway).

If you think about it, usually when you buy a lower trim car you get different bumpers/valances/paint schemes (for example maybe the valances would be gray plastic as opposed to body color on the higher trim), but with these cars that wasn't the case; all body panels and valances are exactly identical sans the hood louvers (personally I've always thought they were a tad tacky but I'm biased), and tails and grille, the latter two which can be swapped out instantly by anyone in under an hour. You don't get the paint scheme, but it's no different than a DX3 IROC, and if anything the RS is cleaner without all the '80s decals. So effectively an RS is aesthetically the same as an IROC since it has all the same body panels and bumpers etc. Look inside, same deal. Interiors are identical sans the badge on the dash and a fog light switch. Under the hood, it's mainly just TPI but that's not that big of a deal.

So I don't know, to me the cars are very similar, and both can look awesome without having to hardly do anything. Since the cars are so similar, I'm not sure why more people don't go into the RS world. Sure it takes a lot to make a Berlinetta look/perform like an IROC, but with an RS, not so much. At the end of the day the RS is cleaner IMO, and I'm surprised more people aren't interested in them for it.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Sharp RS puma. Is it lowered? Any more pics?