goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

The seller says it is, but with no emblems and a non-trans am spoiler, I am not convinced. What do you guys think.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

could be anything, i know a couple people that if the opportunity arose would swap out those wrap-around spoilers for the regular ones, not to mention being rubber they cracked all the time, so replacing it with a widely available basic one, highly possible. Your real deal would be looking at the RPO codes in the center console and decifering them to figure it out, if not take a look at the engine and depending on what year it was figure out what kind of fuel injection/carb came with the car and see if they seem to match.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

check the vin, if the 8th digit is an 8 its got a chance if its an auto, if not nope

Jason1313

iTrader: (3)

You could get a Carfax report if your really considering buying it!!!

Steve86TA

iTrader: (57)

Carfax report is a joke and has nothing to do with it being a GTA.And it could also have an F as the 8th digit(305).If its not a TPI then its not a GTA either..Some more/better pics would help a bit.Without the RPO code and depending on the year it would have GTA on the map pouch.A gold taillight center section,gold "pontiac" on the headlight trim,in 87 gta emblem on the horn button.Of course all of those are replaceable.HTH

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

what is that in the front bumper cover above the foglights?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Those pictures leave a lot to be desired. If that is a GTA someone did a lot of swapping of parts. I will slay no unless the owner can prove otherwise with more evidence/information/pictures.

Jason1313

iTrader: (3)

Carfax should tell him what model the car is though, or am I mistaken?

JT

iTrader: (1)

That won't answer if the vehicle is a Trans AM or GTA. CarFax does not know the difference. It will simply state Trans AM, but it could be a GTA.

If part of the VIN is 1G2FW (2FW) that will indicate the vehicle is either a Trans AM or GTA. The GTA was an option on the Trans AM, therefore, they share the same VIN combo. If the 2FW is not present, it's not a Trans AM nor GTA.

The best way to determine a GTA from a Trans AM is to check the RPO sticker for the RPO code Y84. If the RPO sticker is not available, you can either go to a dealership and request an RPO printout based on your VIN, or order a package through GM/PHS.

Jason1313

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the clarifying JT!

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

I think you all put to much faith in carfax .. Once too a 97 camaro to GM and when they did a search on it there records showed it had a 5 speed, and leather ....
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on the radiator support, didn't GTA's carry a different seat code like the recaro's compared to the base trans am?

kuulkatdadieo

iTrader: (1)

It does say if it is a GTA or not. Mine said GTA and I know for a fact that mine is a GTA. I can post the Carfax if you would like.

kuulkatdadieo

iTrader: (1)

Here's my Carfax guys.


----------
It's hard to see. But, you can see that it says GTA in the upper left.

gary sanders

LOOK FOR Y84 IN THE RPO CODE, if the RPO tag is gone,good luck finding out what it is,you can not tell by the VIN,GM use to keep records of the VIN numbers for each GTA,but thats long gone,you will have to call the PONTIAC REGISTERY,only they can tell by the VIN number now or at the dealer with the VIN number for a print out of what it had,AQ9 SEATS,Y84 GTA PACKAGE ,SO ON,it does not look like a GTA to me!!!

kuulkatdadieo

iTrader: (1)

A closeup:

JT

iTrader: (1)

Last I ran one on one of my '88 GTAs with the Notchback option, it shown as a Trans AM - and I do have PHS, window sticker, and RPO codes showing it's a true GTA. This also is confirmed by numerous others who reported the same thing (known GTA showing up as a "Trans AM" on CarFax).

Either CarFax changed, or now they are listing "TransAM/GTA" on all TransAM and GTA vins (1G2FW). I suspect the latter to possibly be the case. If someone runs a standard Trans AM, that might answer that question.

I agree with Gary. You cannot simply look at the VIN and know the difference between a GTA and Trans AM as they both carry the "2FW". You'd have to contact GM, or a service that has GM records, to decode that specific vehicle.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Well, as I suspected, I entered a known Trans AM (not GTA) VIN into the CarFax database and it comes up with "TransAM/GTA", exactly like your example.

So, CarFax is listing all Trans AMs as "Trans AM/GTA".

Do not rely on Car Fax as they do not know.

gary sanders

Go to this site,and read,it will tell you HOW to find out if its a GTA!!!
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/

gary sanders

This is what a 1989 GTA will have and how many had it:

1989 RPO codes



AAA -- Standard Equipment -- 8,465
AA8 -- Rear Compartment Lid, Notchback -- 1
AM9 -- Rear Seat, Split Fold-Down -- A
AQ9 -- Seat, Front Bucket, Deluxe -- A
AU3 -- Door Locks, Power -- A
A31 -- Windows, Power -- A
A90 -- Deck Lid Release, Remote -- A
B2L -- Engine Package, 5.7L V8 TPI -- 6,554
BC8 -- Ornamentation, Interior Door Pocket -- A
BV3 -- Ornamentation, Instrument Panel -- 4,826
B20 -- Ornamentation, Interior (Luxury) -- A
B35 -- Floor Mats, FR and RR -- 5
B67 -- Storage Box, Cassette Tape -- 4,394
B84 -- Moldings, Vinyl Bodyside -- A
CC1 -- Roof Panels, Hatch (Removable) -- 6,820
CD2 -- Indicator, Windshield Washer Fluid -- 3
C49 -- Defroster, Rear Window, Electric -- A
C60 -- Air Conditioning, Custom -- 8,467
C67 -- Air Conditioning, Electronic -- 3
DC4 -- Mirror, Inside Rear-View, Dual Reading Lamps -- 8,465
DG7 -- Mirror, Outside LH and RH, Electric -- A
DE4 -- Sunshade, Hatch Roof, Removable -- 6,820
D3Y -- Gear, Speedometer Driven -- 6,554
D42 -- Cargo Screen, Rear -- 8,469
D5T -- Gear, Speedometer Driven -- 336
D80 -- Spoiler, Rear Deck Lid -- 1
D81 -- Spoiler, Rear Aero Wing -- 8,469
D9E -- Sensor, Vehicle Speed -- 366
E5Z -- Adapter, Speedometer (Delete) -- A
E7Z -- Gear, Speedometer (Delete) -- 1,550
E9Z -- Key, Speedometer (Delete) -- A
FE2 -- Suspension System, Ride and Handling -- A
GM3 -- Rear Axle Ratio (3.45) -- 366
GW6 -- Rear Axle Ratio (3.27) -- 8,104
G80 -- Axle, Rear Limited-Slip -- A
ILD -- Trim, Interior Design -- 2,392
IL2 -- Trim, Interior Design -- 6,078
JG1 -- Shaft, Propeller (Aluminum) -- 6,554
J65 -- Brakes, Power FR and RR Disc -- A
KC4 -- Cooler, Engine Oil -- 6,920
KO9 -- Generator, 120-Ampere -- 1,550
K34 -- Cruise Control, Electronic -- A
K68 -- Generator, 105-Ampere -- 6,920
LC2 -- Engine, 3.8L V6 Turbocharged -- 1,550
LB9 -- Engine, 5.0L V8 TPI -- 366
L98 -- Engine, 5.7L V8 TPI -- 6,554
MD8 -- Transmission, Automatic Overdrive -- 6,554
MK6 -- Transmission, 5-Speed Manual -- 366
MM5 -- Transmission, 5-Speed Manual Provisions -- 366
MXO -- Transmission, Automatic Overdrive Provisions -- 8,104
MW9 -- Transmission, Automatic Overdrive (200-R4) -- 1,550
NA5 -- Emissions, Federal Requirements -- 8,304
NB2 -- Emissions, California Requirements -- 166
NK4 -- Steering Wheel, Sport Leather-Wrapped -- 8,076
NN5 -- Emissions, California Override -- 1,077
NP5 -- Steering Wheel, Leather-Wrapped -- 394
N10 -- Exhaust System, Dual -- 3,068
N33 -- Steering Wheel, Tilt -- A
N64 -- Spare Wheel and Tire, Aluminum Space Saver -- A
PB4 -- Lock Kit, Aluminum Wheel -- A
PW7 -- Wheels, 16" Aluminum Diamond-Spoke -- A
QLC -- Tires, 245/50-VR16 Radial -- A
R6A -- Package, Value Option -- 5,478
TR9 -- Lamp Group, Courtesy -- A
T93 -- Lamps, Tail and Stop, Smoked Lens -- A
T96 -- Lamps, Front Fog -- A
UA6 -- System, Theft Deterrent -- A
UF6 -- Lamp, Interior Console Courtesy -- A
UK3 -- Radio Controls, Steering Wheel -- 8,076
UQ1 -- Radio, Stereo Installation Provisions -- A
UQ7 -- Speaker System, Subwoofer -- 3
UT1 -- Buzzer, Tone Generator Warning -- A
UT4 -- Radio, AM/FM, Cassette, Equalizer, Clock -- 8,076
UW1 -- System, Diagnostic Checks -- 3
U1A -- Radio, AM/FM, CD, Equalizer, Clock -- 394
U2D -- Cluster, Instrument (Oil, Coolant Temp, Volt, Tach, Turbo Boost) -- 1,550
U25 -- Lamp. Luggage Compartment -- A
U29 -- Lamp, Interior, Instrument Panel Courtesy -- A
U52 -- Instrument Cluster, Electronic -- 3
U66 -- Speakers, Dual FR Dash, Dual Extended-Range RR -- 2
U75 -- Anntenna, Power Automatic -- A
VAN -- Van Nuys, CA Assembly Plant -- A
VK3 -- Mounting, Front License Plate -- 6,057
VG8 -- Label, Notice To Buyer -- 1,243
WS4 -- Merchandising Option Package, Trans Am -- A
WS6 -- Suspension, Special Performance -- A
YS1 -- Seat, Custom Rear -- A
Y11 -- Package, V.I.P. Plus -- 1,939
Y82 -- Package, Trans Am Limited Edition (20th Anniversary) -- 1,550


Y84 -- GTA Option Package -- 8,470



The following are the codes and corresponding production numbers for each exterior color available for the 1989 Trans Am GTAs:


40U -- Exterior Color, White -- 2,961
41U -- Exterior Color, Black -- 1,659
74U -- Exterior Color, Flame Red Metallic -- 1,731
81U -- Exterior Color, Bright Red -- 1,475
87U -- Exterior Color, Gunmetal Metallic -- 644



The following are the codes and corresponding production numbers for each interior color combination available for the 1989 Trans Am GTAs:


19D -- Trim Combination, Black Cloth -- 259
192 -- Trim Combination, Black Leather -- 816
66D -- Trim Combination, Beechwood Cloth -- 1,084
662 -- Trim Combination, Beechwood Leather -- 3,519

82D -- Trim Combination, Medium Dark Grey Cloth -- 1,049
822 -- Trim Combination, Medium Dark Grey Leather -- 1,743





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for you help guys, he is supposed to send me pics tonite, I will post them here when I get them. The engine has been changed to a 4 bolt 350, i believe the car is multiport injected, more info to follow.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Pics have arrived. Notice how he "forgot" to show the whole dash pad.

ND4SPD86

iTrader: (1)

Unless the fenders where changed its just a plain Trans Am.

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

the gta did not have the vents in the fenders. Since that one ahs the vents I would say its not a GTA Look at some of the pics under owners. And you can see that they dont ahve the vents

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/index.html

JT

iTrader: (1)

The vents in the fenders, which the GTA did not have, would nearly conclude that it is not a GTA. Problem with basing it on things like that is parts can/will be replaced after ~20 some years. The lack of gold GTA emblem in the rear tail lamp assembly is another sign of a Trans AM.

It's not concrete to go just by options or parts. Options available on the GTA were also available on the Trans AM - such as that digital dash. Parts can be replaced. The lack of aero wing could have been because it was replaced due to being cracked - a very common issue.

It's best to look for a Y84 (GTA RPO) for concrete conclusion, but so far, it looks to be a Trans AM and not GTA.

If you have the VIN, you can determine if it's a GTA/Trans AM.

1987?

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

you can see what looks like the original tabs on the rear window moulding that the aero spoilers had ... I think your going to find that it is in fact a GTA. Aside from the fender vents ... It has the seats looks like even the correct horn cap, tabs for the aero spoiler if thats what the reflection is.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The seats ("Ultma" seats) that the GTA came standard with were also available in the Trans AM and Formulas, atleast the later years of the Third Gen era. They are not strictly GTA only seats - though they often mislabeled as being so.

I do agree that it looks like it has the correct GTA badge in the center horn ring. But that is one of few things it appears to correctly have for a GTA.

JT

iTrader: (1)

By the way, I'm moving this to the History forum. It's more of a research question than related to Appearance and Detailing.

You can't confirm and conclude a Trans AM between a GTA on looks alone, due to parts being changed/altered in those ~20 years.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

according to the current owner its a a chrome mesh grill.
Yes, it is indeed an 87.



I am going to request the vin and some more interior shots of the car asap and I will let you guys know then. It is a nice car and he is selling for really cheap, which is why I am skeptical.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Ask for a picture of the RPO sticker. If it's still there, it will be inside the console. Open the lid and it will be on the inside wall. If it has Y84, it's a GTA. If Y84 isn't present, it's not a GTA. That will be the end of story.

Getting the VIN here won't do much. It will only tell us if it's a GTA/Trans AM, not which one. Because it's a 1987, you likely won't be able to go to a GM dealer and ask them for an RPO printout based on the VIN. They have some records for 1988, but don't have as much as 1989+.

If you're willing to pay a fee, you can submit the VIN to GM and receive information in regard to options - which should tell if Y84 - GTA was optioned on that vehicle.

Jproz1167 was correct that it appears to have the GTA badge for a center horn ring, which was different from the Trans AM. But that's about all it appears to have to support it could be a GTA. I will add that leather steering wheel looks like it's in excellent condition. Could have been replaced. In regard to the seats, they were not solely GTA seats. They were an option on the Trans AM - atleast starting in 1988. It's a common "myth" that those are "GTA only" seats.

Klortho

That car isn't a GTA, fender vents, no gold bird in the taillight filler either but a body colored bird. You could get the complete upgraded interior in a Trans Am but if it's an 87/88 model car, the map pocket will have GTA embroiered in it instead of the firebird symbol or Trans Am on it. Alot of the people who convert these don't change the map pocket, taillight filler, horn button or the PONTIAC on the driver side headlight.

As stated, until you see the actual RPO list for this car, steer clear if he continues saying it's a GTA.

And as JT said, the VIN won't tell you if it's a GTA or not, since the GTA was a package on the Trans Am it was combined on Carfax to say Trans Am/GTA with any car that has the 1G2FW in the start of the VIN.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If it is a GTA, seems like someoen really went out of their way to make it NOT look like one... I mean, I can see one or two things being swapped. But fenders, spoiler, de-badging?? Unless it was in numerous accidents and those parts had to be replaced.

And at this point, he cant expect to get GTA money out of it. Bumper cover is ruined IMO, no wrap around, no emblems, wrong fenders... If he wants to sell it as a GTA, and someone wants to buy it for a GTA...they will need to put work and parts into it to make it right again. And with parts becoming scarce and expensive, that is gonna stink.

Might be a good bargaining tool if it is infact a GTA, and you still want it and watn the price to be knocked down a bit. Its still a decent looking car aside from the bumper. How much does it want and how many miles if you dont mind me asking...???

Everyone is right though..you need the VIN and those RPO codes to confirm things.


J.

P.S.!!! I see the old wrap around spoiler holes are still there!! Open! Letting in water! And rust bubbles in the rear decklid. Those pictures are big...if you save them and use something to zoom in, you can see a lot of details. The "15 footer" rule applies to pictures too! haha.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

It looks like he didn't take pics of the passenger floor because look at all the wires hanging and showing just from what is in the picture...good luck on this, i would be weary of the deal IMO

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Thanks I have asked him. He should reply by wednesday.



LOL, indeed it would be a good bargaining tool. This car has been rebuilt, there is even a new floor in it so this car has been redone for some reason. The car has a brand new engine with 45000 KMS on it! I thought it was miles but indeed it is KMs on a 5.7 multiport V8. She also has a 91 forumula hood now, (not shown in pics..happened recently) because his mechanic forgot to close the hood tightly and on the highway it blew up and cracked.

I must admit this guy seems a little shady from far away but I just think he is unfamiliar with thirdgen cars. You can see this car has overcome some amazing changes which is why I see it may be possible that the non GTA things were swapped in over the cars' life. However I am requesting a pic of the RPO and will let you guys know asap. That being said, if the car is not a GTA, it is not necessarily the end of my attempt to buy her. I want a digital dash GTA, but a Trans Am would do nicely. Around here those cars are scarce so selling her for more than I buy her for is an option as well.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Some more pics for your viewing pleasure. Thanks for all your imput guys.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

a few more.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

these pics still really don't show the map pocket but I still like this car.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Y84 is ONLY true way to know. Everything else can be put on the car.

The VI won't tell you. As for Carfax, Trans Am/GTA, with the "/" only means it's either. If it said Trans Am GTA, then that would it IS GTA. But they'd have zero way of knowing anyways.

Get a repro SPID sticker...Have a stealership get you the RPO codes. Y84 or its questionable, as to its "authenticity".

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I would stear clear of this car. Way to many things not right about it. Looks like the A/C has been deleted.

Guest

Looks like... uh... a Corvette under there.

I wouldnt let GTA or TA stop you, unless you want the badge on the fender. I'd let the numerous mods to the car stop you unless thats your style.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

There was a corvette engine in her first.

mike_c

iTrader: (13)

Didn't only GTA's have digital gauges? I've never seen a regular T/A with a digital dash.

JT

iTrader: (1)

No. The Trans AM could be optioned with the digital dash. I've got one ('88 Trans AM with digital dash).

The digital dash option appeared to be fairly popular. According to Frankie's figures, slightly over 50% of 1988 GTAs came with the digital dash. That's on top of how many Trans AMs came with the digital dash.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I agree with this guy... Something tells me this car has been molested many times. I can see numerous oddities just from the pics alone. Looks like the HVAC controls/radio pod has been screwed with. So no telling what the wiring behind there is like. Stickers on the map pocket...looks like a comp cams sticker or something. Who puts brand stickers on their map pocket? haha. Half deleted a/c. Not original motor (if I read that correctly). Then add on top of that all the body mods (fenders, hood, spoiler, lord knows what else..plus the rust bubbles you can see).

You'll probably spend a good deal of time...and of course money...just to kind of go back and make things right that were never finished or correct. It all depends on what you want out of the car too.

Ide have to hear the price...but my opinion would be steer clear unless you are looking for a project that you are willing to completely go through and rebuild. Plenty of other thirdgens otu there for good prices that havent been messed with. I got my 86 with 40k on it recently for a really good price. And its soooo nice not having anything goofey in it. No wires messed with. All the dash screws are present and accounted for. Even had original tires still on a couple of the wheels. Its an odd but GREAT feeling.

Just my opinion tho...If this is the sort of project you've been looking for...then go for it! It seems like a decent start anyway...

J.

gary sanders

U52 -- Instrument Cluster, Electronic -- 5,102 in 1988,Y84 -- GTA Option Package -- 9,765,so a little over 50% is correct,and the digital dash was avalable on the TRANS AM,lets say FIREBIRD WITH TRANS AM PACKAGE.They are all firebirds,lol

zerogsx

I too had a Trans Am with a digital dash. It was a LB9/5m 1987 Trans Am.

I'm not liking that front bumper at all. Or those wheels. Unless it's a screaming bargain, I'd pass.

Klortho

Actually, the Trans Am was a seperate carline, sort of like the GTO being different than the LeMans starting in '66. There were things you could get on a T/A that you couldn't get on a Firebird. The GTA was an option package on the Trans Am though. Some people call them Firebird Trans Am but when the VIN's became seperate to designate the Firebird/Formula from the Trans Am, it became one by itself.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

For '87, the GTA was "just" an option package. In '88, things changed.

mike_c

iTrader: (13)

Hmm, learn something new every day.

gary sanders

Does anyone even know where PONTIAC got the TRANS AM NAME from,THEY ARE ALL FIREBIRDS!!!!!,YES FIREBIRDS,Long ,long time ago,in a far,far ,away land called PONTIAC,Pontiac wanted to use the name TRANS AM,PONTIAC asked the SCCA if they could use the name TRANS AM for the PONTIAC FIREBIRD.SCCA agreed and charged PONTIAC 5 dollers for each FIREBIRD,that they built for the public,just to use the name TRANS AM!!!This started in 1969,for every FIREBIRD WITH THE TRANS AM NAME PLATE PONTIAC built,and lasted to 2002 model year,thats 5 dollers TIMES every TRANS AM EVER BUILT!!!
The reason SCCA charged PONTIAC FOR EACH CAR,THE TRANS AM name was SCCA PROPERTY,they had the TRANS AM SERIES.Named after the Trans-Am Series, the name was used without permission and the SCCA threatened to sue. PONTIAC DECIDED TO PAY!!!!
SO YES THEY ARE ALL FIREBIRDS!!! TRANS AM IS AN OPITION,SO IS GTA!!!!!

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Being a GTA or not will not void a possible purchase, I just want to know for sure for bargaining sake. The price is very reasonable for a trans am and with low kms on the engine makes me very interested.

Thanks for your help guys, its invaluable again and I will post pics of hopefully the underside and the rpo code as soon as I get it.