tranceemotionz

I apologize if im posting on the wrong thread but here goes.. i have a 91 z28 5.7tpi. its got 53000 miles and about 5000 on the motor which had to be swapped because of a cracked block. (motor purchased and installed from chevrolet (stock replacement)) the car is pretty much flawless with the exception of a few bubbles in the headliner. everything on the car is original including the tires. ok i tell you that to tell you this. about a month ago i had my car in a local shop having an exhaust leak fixed. when the car was on the lift, the front passenger lift gave out causing the body of the car to collopse on the lift itself. it caused alot of undercarriage damage including bent rocker panels on both sides as well as exterior damage to the fenders and ground effects.to top it all off there going to the extent of saying my car already had damage. so im battling out the insurance company for repairs and i have two questions. how can i determine the value of my car, and two what will my car be worth after the repairs, because now it has damage, and new parts/paint etc. thanks for your time.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What insurance co.?

Better be the shop's, not yours.

Better also be, they make it back like it was; no further questions asked. You don't need to be worrying about "how much" anything is. Not your problem.

I doubt that the "value" of the car was impacted. These cars don't, and probably never will, have that type of value, with VERY RARE exceptions (which unless yours is a 1LE or something, it isn't an exception). Sounds like it was a nice car though, I in no way intend to say that it doesn't deserve to be made whole again.

Think about it... if it was some BMW or something, you wouldn't be hearing this crap out of em. They'd be "yes sir when do you need it back sir your exhaust work is free sir". That's the tune the shop needs to start singing, NOW.

All of that about swapping the motor is a non-issue. They didn't screw up the motor. It doesn't matter to the matter at hand; which is, repairing the damage from their negligence.

Otherwise, if it was me, they'd be getting a summons to court on Monday morning.

tranceemotionz

Yes its their insurance. which only contacted me after i sent the owner a letter along with police reports, body shop notes, and a written statement from the gm dealership that services my car that can testify that my car is in near/mint condition. first they hired a private insurance investigator to come and look at my car to determine if in fact that my car was damaged from the lift. (I witnessed it falling on the lift). All major damage is on the passenger side, but the driver side rocker panel got damaged as well, and now there trying to determine if they want to pay the estimate that i have. i bring up diminished value because in ga anytime there is damage to a vehicle, you have to be compensated for inharit diminished value, because now the car has been stigmatized, having to have body panels, body stucture, and paint replaced. i could understand if it had 200k miles, 3 different colors of paint and just falling apart, but with the exception for having a stock engine replace by chevrolet, everything is original on the car from the ground up with 53000 miles, and last time i checked ive only seen 2 other 91 z since ive had my car, so they are not very common in the atlanta area. but i appreciate your feedback.

oldtimer

The whole diminished value thing here could be a sticky issue. Depending on how much physical damage is here, and depending on how much the car was worth will impact the number. I am guessing that the car will probably total loss when you add the dollar damage to the car plus your request for diminished value. Law will probably require them to "make you whole" only. In other words they are not going to be on the hook for anything more than the value of the car. Your diminished value claim and other details like rental car expense while your car is being fixed will figure in with the damage estimate on the car. They stack the deck in favor of totalling the vehicle, as they are just more money that will have to be spent in the overall repair. Unless you have an credible appraisal stating otherwise, they will probably be bound to use book value to value the car. Here in LA, the threshold is 75% of NADA retail to force a total. However, an insurance carrier is allowed to look at probable supplemental damages, rental car, diminshed value, etc. in determining a repairable car. The car will total out below the 75% mark with ease. If you can get the insurer to repair your car, I would lay low on the demands in an effort to cooperate if you are interested in keeping the vehicle. Thanks, Oldtimer.

scottmoyer

The shop is fully responsible for all repairs required that were caused by them. No questions asked! If you demand the parts be original GM parts, they have to provide it. Since they damaged the car, it is their responsibility to get it back to original condition at whatever the cost.

As for value, your best bet is to start looking on ebay, carbuyer.com, cars.com, autotrader.com and cars-on-line.com to find similar cars to yours and get the asking price. Book value is lower than what these cars are selling for. If they total it, they will need to pay you an amount that will allow you to purchase another like vehicle. If you continue to have issues, contact your insurance agent and have them fight the other company. Your insurance agent will work for you in this case.

tranceemotionz

I highly doubt they will total out my car, the damage is estimated around 2000, i paid 12500.00 for the car in feb of last year. the only thing that worries me is bent rocker panels is considered structural damage because its part of the unibody. unless times have changed last i heard was if a vehicle had frame/unibody damage then it is considered a totoal loss. does anyone know anything about that. maybe you could clear things up for me. as far as the estimate their going to "repair" the fender and refinish it so its not going to be replaced. they are replacing the passenger side ground effects and emblem. and there is a lot of notations about the rocker panels so i dont know if theyre repairing or replacing or what. all i know is im getting ticked off because everyone is treating me like the badguy, still havent even got an apology from the shop and the owner called me a crook and thief for pursing this. so i dont know what will happen from here. as far as "repairing" and "replacing" is it better to keep the original parts and have the repaired, or should i demand oem replacements from gm. thanks for your inputs i really appreciate them.

Krazzycowgirl

Depends on where you are at also depends on how the Insurance value our cars any more.

6yrs ago my husband was in a wreck & the car was totaled. When our insurance went to look at the value of the car they went to look at other cars that were selling of that year in that shape with all the options, They came close & Found ONE That had sold a year earlier for nearly 5k & gave us that price plus the buy out on the car (meaning we got the car back to do with what we want)
What the insurance company didnt know is the Car that they Valued his 87 Iroc was sitting in our drive way lol It was My 87 Iroc that is optioned out the hilt while his was missing some of the options.

BIRD-VERT92

Insurance responsibility varies from state to state. Here in Missouri, I know because my wifes year old car was hit pretty hard just last month. The Insurance company is not required to pay diminshed value. And the repair shop is not required to use all OEM parts, And can use salvage parts where deemed appropriate. Yeah, Insurance companies rule the world. Good luck.

okfoz

I would fight it tooth and nail. If you have a reciept for what you paid for the car then thats what it is worth, even after 1 year depceciation would not dicate a 50% drop in this case. I hope you didn't cheat the govt but stating you purchased it for a lower price than what you really did as that may bite you in the butt.

I would consider contacting a local car appraiser and see what they can do. They may be able to look at the car and get you a reasonably accurate estimate of its value while overlooking the damages done by the shop. It might cost you a few bucks but whats $75 to $100 when your taking about a $12K car.

As for the damage on the Left side when the Right side collapsed the car probaly came off the left side slightly too when it fell. I would make sure the car was completely fixed.

As far as the engine it should not matter. Cracked blocks are not uncommon and to the insurance company it should not be an issue. I would call your insurance company and see what they may be able to do.

As for will it devalue the car if fixed. It might, it might not, it really depends on the quality of work, I would demand a quality shop, NOT A DEALERSHIP, as they usually do crappy work. BUt I would go to a Good shop who you trust and know will make it right. Let them hash it out with the insurance company they are used to doing it.

Good luck, fight it.

John

tranceemotionz

hey thanks for your input guys, ill keep you posted on how everything turns out. i still have my bill of sale, and when i got the tag i was never asked about how much i paid for the car. so i dont know. but if i have the option. is it better for me to have the original parts "repaired" or have them "replaced"

oldtimer

Bolt on items like fenders, trim, etc. are usually not that expensive to replace, so the threshold is low. Minor dents and dings--a repair is no problem, but replacing would be nicer. You'd end up with no mud in your car, just fresh sheetmetal. However, they may be able to use salvage fenders, etc., and may not even have a choice on some items that are no longer available new from the oem. Salvage is no problem either, as long as the panels used are good, straight pieces. Now, for things like rocker panels, quarter panels, etc., I would go farther to save the current pieces. In general, the less welding and cutting done to your car, the better. The rockers are semi concealed when the car is together, as the cladding will cover any minor issues. As far as panel replacement mandating a total loss, that will not be a problem. Generally, tl determination is a dollar amount, or some major structural issue that would prevent the car from being returned to the road. Shops replace door pillars, roof panels, trunk floors, entire rear clips, etc. daily, and those cars do not automatically total. If your estimates are only in the $2k range, then you do not have much damage or much to worry about. As others have said, pick a good repair facility, and the car should be an easy fix. Thanks,Oldtimer.

tranceemotionz

I just wanted to post an update on my situation. so about two weeks ago their insurance company sent a private adjuster to inspect my car, his conclusion, it is impossible to determine how old the damage and whether or not it was new or old, the fact is it is new. so time goes by and a few days ago, i received a check in the mail from the insurance company for 850.00 usd under "special notes" it says "agreed price with shennandoa collision center, plus 3 days car rental @ 27.00 usd a day. i called my body shop and they have never even heard of this company yet alone negotiate a price to fix my car. i contacted the company and requested the documents be sent to me. i received them in the mail yesterday, and all it is is their estimate for damages using aftermarket crash parts (not oem or used oem parts) as well as aftermarket paint not oem paint, under the remarks about the damage they said because it couldnt be determined if it was old or new that they would only compensate for 50%. so why would they put agreed price on the check when they never even contacted the body shop??? i was advised to call them tomorrow to refuse the crash parts and to refuse the check they issued because it is not enough to fix the car. so what i do from here i havent a clue. the damage is not enough to pursue with a lawyer so do i go to small claims or sue the owner, or do i sue midas, or do i sue the insurance company.... this whole situation is really getting under my skin because im tired of getting the run around. when i find out more info ill let you guys no. thanks for all your input and support, hopefuly ill get this situation resolved. this is also the reason i pulled the car from the for sale posts.
----------
Also do you think i should take my car to my local chevrolet dealership to see if they would give me an appraisel of what my car is worth compared to what it would be worth now with these damages.. i dont know if that would help my case at all or not. thanks again

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

As suggested before the shop is at fault for the damages and them along with thier insurance company needs to correct what they caused.You need to contact your insurance company,also as ,as they will go to bat for you.The shop caused the damage and they are liable and in NO way do you cash a check like that because once you do it's settled and you have no recourse.I would get estimates because your insurance company will either siggest it or they may send an adjuster or send you to one of thier service centers.

Krazzycowgirl

Dont cash the check & get a lawyer, You are allowed to take the car to any bodyshop you wish for price est. Go to 2 top end ones & then go to yours, see where the cost is at.

396-375-HP

Yes do not under any circumstances cash that check. My wife works for an insurance company and I know first hand that it is up to the shop and there ins. company to fix your car. You will have to be firm and ugly to say the least with them. They are trying to get you to agree to there terms instead of theres because they know that they are screwed. Stand your ground and you will win.

subliminal

iTrader: (1)

Your first mistake was going to Midas, NEVER EVER go to a Midas, Meineke or Jiffy lube. Those places are real shady. I know atleast at midas every car that comes into them atleast needs brakes and they will tell you that even if you JUST replaced them. They have a trailer behind their store here where they keep all the parts that they told customers are bad but are really still good and they sell them to salvage yards. Had you taken it to a locally owned shop it is more than likely the owner would do everything in his power to make it right. I would let them know you plan on taking them to small claims court and get written statements from the dealer where you had the car serviced saying the damage was new, They will either give in and pay up or go to court and more than likely be forced to pay anyways. Good luck and let this be a lesson learned.

scottmoyer

Again, as was mentioned, don't cash the check. That's an old trick. If you owe someone money and you pay via check but write "paid in full" on the memo line, they cash it, you don't owe anymore because they accepted the terms of payment.

As for the line that they can't determine the age of the damage, they have to. It is now up to them to prove they didn't cause the damage. If they already accept responsibility for damaging the under side of the car, they now have to prove that any damages that you are trying to get repaired were not made by them! Don't bother threatening small claims because insurance companies don't care. Remember, all this time that you are wasting is $$ they need to compensate for also. Keep fighting them and you should win. They admitted damages, now they have to prove what damages were not from them.

tranceemotionz

Ok so yeah, i have all the info you guys are talking about, i have written statements from two different body shops saying it is evident that 1. the car was not placed correctly on the lift and 2. the damage is in fact "fresh", i also have a written statement from bill heard chevrolet where my car has always been serviced at since ive owned the car also stating that never has my car had any kind of damage period. i talked to the insurance company today and they couldnt give me an explanation as to why they put "agreed price with my body shop" on the check, in fact they couldnt even tell me a name or time and date when they supposively called. so why they put that on there i dont know. the shop im having it repaired at is my cousins shop and he does damn good work. but get this. now they want to send their inspector out again to go over damages with my cousin cause now theyre saying, "just because there is something on paper, doesnt mean the car is damaged" so theyre accusing him of giving a false estimate. i mean seriously how much more bs do i have to put up with, its one thing after another, damages are only 2k so its not worth me getting a lawyer, cause i would pay more for him then i would getting my car fixed. but as always ill keep you posted, and thanks for your inputs. i did tell them im refusing to use non oem parts and i also refused this check.

855speed

Your Insurance should repair the car, and then get reimbursed from the other insurance company. The diminished value is the difference in what the car would have sold for and the new price it could sell for because it was damaged, My wife got hit in her Toyota, and it was repaired and we got a $2500 check for the lowered resale value. I figure she can keep the car till the motor falls out of it. It's not like its ever gonna rust.
Who are the insurance companies involved? Some companies take care of their customers (USAA certainly does), and some couldn't care less about you (State Farm/Allstate)

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

You are lucky you live is GA where you have diminished value laws to protect you. My wife did $8300.00 damage to her 05 Mercury Grand Marquis in 06. The frame was not bent, it was all sheet metal damage. The car was repaired with all OEM new parts, and looks/runs perfect, but it is a repaired car and the resale value is diminished. The dealer, who is a friend, told me that the value of a severely damaged car is approx 2/3 of the same vehicle that has never been in a wreck. That figure is providing quality repairs have been made. Most states require a total loss if the repair costs excede 75% of the car's actual trade-in value which approximately is halfway in between the wholesale and retail price. the In NC we do not have a diminished value law, so diminished value of our car is just my loss. Since the shop and thier insurance does not want to play fair, you need to get your figures together, present your version of a fair settlement, plus a little extra for barganing, then let them make the next move. If you express aggravation with them, they will sense this and make you a low-ball offer. I once used the Autotrader.com to help determine the value of a vehicle that I totaled when I hit a cow, and it worked. Statefarm, my insurance company, originally offered me $1500.00 for my vehicle, and they keep the salvage. All insurance adjusters always offer the low-ball offer first. You would be suprised how many people fall for it. I did a search online, and found 5 vehicles like mine priced between $3500.00 and $6000.00. Statefarm eventually paid me $3245.00 for my vehicle, plus I kept the salvage. Good Luck! Charles

avro206

can people break up the HUGE paragraphs a bit? Makes it very hard to read. Ok enough on that!

Sorry for your damage--I can totally relate to your situation. Around a week after brininging my Formula home from the US a local shop damaged my car too.

They placed the arms for the lift under the front fenders and tried to jack it up!! Put a pair of dents in my flawless car!!

Worst part was I did not notice for several weeks!! However, just by coincidence I had taken pictures a day or 2 after--going back and looking for the damage I could then see it plain as day.

Also--a day or 2 after bringing the car home I had it appraised. No damage was noted.

With these 2 facts I confronted the shop and they paid for repairs. Still it took over 2 months--which was agony for me--cause when bought the car it wa perfect.

Hope it turns out good for you.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

I agree, I would be sick if that happened to my car. Stand your ground, get what you need to fix your car correctly. Also get your diminished value reimbusement. Fix your car, then either enjoy it or sell it which ever you decide. If you loose a little that's life, and sometimes that's the way it goes. If you come out ahead, so what, you earned it for aggravation! Hope it comes out to your good! Charles

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Any updates? Charles

tranceemotionz

Hey guys sorry for the delay on the post, my father just opened up his own restaraunt and ive been working non stop, anyways.... THE CAR IS FIXED!!! both sides rocker panels and all. with the exception of a little overspay on the undercarriage i you wouldnt even know it was ever damaged. as far as the diminished value case i think ill just leave it alone and just be thankful that my car got fixed. but two words of advise stay the hell away from midas, and dont use central insurance. those are some shady greedy obnoxious people youll ever meet. i guess that will close this thread for now. later.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Glad you got your car fixed. Charles