lancerracer

Whats the difference between these two beasts? I mean I know their bodies are look different but how different are they performance wise? What are the differences in the Suspesion Systems and other parts of the car (IE exhaust stuff like that) Thanks

RB83L69

They are essentially identical, with the full range of drivetrain combos having bee offered in both versions of the car. The single biggest mechanical differences I know of are: the engine air intake systems in the Pontiac version usually are more restrictive because the hood location doesn't allow enough space for it, and the Pontiac is usually heavier. Consequently the Chevrolet is usually faster. The Pontiac has a little more dressed-up interior which is partially responsible for the extra weight, usually 100 lbs or so.

Beyond that, the choice of which to buy comes down to what styling you prefer, and then all the other factors of price, dealer support, etc. The 2 versions of this car aren't really very different at all once you get beneath the skin.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

Reno

The Camaros I don't think ever had the Level III suspension, called WS6 on the Firebirds, or is that the same as 1LE?

-Reno
89 Formula

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The Level III suspension is Pontiacs selling phrase. When you get down to the details, the RPO FE2 designates the suspension. Both Camaro and Firebird used FE2 suspensions. There are minor differences in the Camaro/Firebird, but when you factor everything it really comes down to which is in better shape and which you prefer.

85 T/A WS6

Pontiac Engineers tested the 1985 TA WS6 at over .92g, an 85 IROC pulled a .87g on the skidpad.

I find it very hard to believe that these two cars shared the same suspension components.

Don

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The only difference is a 34mm vs 36mm front sway bar. The Iroc has the wonderbar too. Magazine tests are subjective and open to interpretation. Believe what you want, but for all intents and purposes the two cars shared the same parts suspension wise.

85 T/A WS6

Great, next time I need parts Ill go to a Chevy dealer. lol

.92g is a proven fact generated by the Engineering Team at PMD.

Stock vs Stock, the TA wins on the skidpad.

Don

Drew

iTrader: (58)

When ordering GM parts, any GM dealer can hook you up. Case in point, I've ordered many a part from my Pontiac dealer for my 87 Iroc. At the same time I've picked up a few parts at my Chevy dealer for my 91 Formula.

Any two thirdgen fbodies are going to be different in one way or another. You could have taken two identical Trans Am's and had two different results. Every car that came out of the showroom was not blueprinted. Some were better than others. Since its now 10 years since the last thirdgen left the factory we're dealing with used cars. With that we have to consider that some have been used a lot more than others. For that reason if you cruise thru the local carlots you'll probably find 2-6 thirdgens. Say a coupe, a RS, a T/A, a Formula, a GTA, and a Berlinetta... All priced about the same. The RS has 40000 miles, fresh tires, babied since birth. The GTA has 200,000 miles and bald tires, worn suspension, bad tranny, etc... Compare the two and the RS will probably handle better. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles and whatnot, but its still tight, and functioning closer to the original design specs.

Magazine tests and even GM tests often showed different results from the same car. GM can't even decide true performance numbers in most cases. One case in point, in 91 Pontiac advertised the dual cats as adding x, y, and z horsepower. X, Y, and Z were three different numbers. How about other times GM has misrepresented the truth... Look at the numbers for the TTA?

When dealing with thirdgens today, the performance can go either way.

Grim Reaper

Actually WHEN I do take my car to a dealership (there are somethings I either don't have the time to do or it is incredibly difficult to do without the proper tools...I take my GTA to a local Chevy Dealer instead of the local Pontiac Dealer just because the Chevy Dealer does a much better job.

And....

Drew, are you describing my car?

Actually, in spite of my high mileage, mine is in excellent mechanical shape. I do have to look at getting a new paint job and a few "door dings" fixed though.

But I have to agree with Drew that you cannot look at a 15 year old magazine article and expect a 15 year old to perform as it did when it was brand new, unless it is extremely low mileage or has effectively new parts.

Also, many of these test magazines use "test mule" cars. If the "test mule" is basically a virgin, it will perform very well. But if the "test mule" has been around a long time, even it will not perform to it's full potental.

I am with Drew, unless you have a preference for a particular styling, buy the car that is in better shape as it will be closer to performing to it's "advertised" level than a beater.

I'm also with RB that the Pontiacs had a slightly more restrictive intake and the GTAs do tend to weigh a bit more, depending on their options. The intake is easily fixed. As for weight, even that can be misleading. My GTA "only" weighs 3,410 lbs with no driver and minimal fuel. Among L98s, it is one of the lighter cars and guys are looking to see if I've added Helium to my tires or drilled holes in my car to lessen the weight.

L98 Formulas tend to be the lightest of the L98 F-bodies btw. They are generally a "strippers" with few options. But if they do have "power everything" they tend to weigh as much as the other L98 F-bodies.

But 5 HP for the intake and 100 lbs still only amount to a .15 sec difference in the 1/4. A good driver and a good launch can easily make that difference. Just "nailing" the throttle at the track will make my car almost .5 to 1.0 second slower than if I have a good launch.

RB83L69

That's a bunch of BS about the skidpad numbers. The cars are identical underneath, option for option; the various options went by a variety of names in the glossies, but the RPOs are the same because they pointed at the same part numbers. The cars are as close to identical as 2 different things can be.

Glenn is right about the speed differences; while the Chevy is a faster car on the average, the difference is slight. A Pontiac that runs better than average, or has relatively few options, could be faster than a more loaded Chevy whose engine didn't quite turn out as good.

For all practical purposes, misleading ad copy produced by the individual sales divisions aside, the cars are identical. They even rolled off the same assembly lines, built out of the same parts out of the same bins. Anybody that's ever been around mass production knows that it costs more to make 2 different things on the same line than one same thing all the time. GM knows that better than most consumers realize. The only real difference between them is bodywork and trim, and of course marketing; the Pontiac was marketed as a more stylish car, the Chevrolet as a straight hot-rod, it's a classic example of taking the same product and packaging it slightly differently to appeal to slightly different demographics. Look at tobacco companies for the textbook case of how that is done.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

Grim Reaper

Amen RB.

I REALLY am going to have to send you an private e-mail one day. It seems I sent you some e-mails in the past when you were moving to California (guess you closer now) and then I moved to Kamloops and was off the 'Net for awhile.

Too bad I don't work for "that" company anymore. We use to have an office in Carlsbad and I use to visit it a lot. I use to stay at that place that looked liked a "Windmill". Anderson's I thnk.

Also, now that I can burn an eprom, I can make a car "clean for emissions" yet "pollute good like a car should" when you stomp on it. Got to take a trip down to Carlsbad one day and show you some of this stuff. It's just like "tuning" a carb/distributor, but you don't get dirty and you don't have to crawl under the hood.

Grim Reaper

PS: Shouldn't we be talking "F-body vs Mustang"? We ARE on the same side aren't we?

85 T/A WS6

I guess you guys are right...

Found a good article for an 85 Iroc vs TA test, I think we can all agree on the results.....


http://www.iroc-z.com/articles/artic...Magarticle.htm

Peace

Don


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Recaro Seats
58,000 miles
5.0 TPI
WS6 (.92g)
3:27 Posi
Hi Flow MAF
K&N
My Car
TransAmGTA.com Ride of the Month

85 T/A WS6

Ok hows this:

http://www.iroc-z.com/articles/artic...%20Mustang.htm

Don

89REDGTA

I have heard that the Firebirds are more aerodynamic because of the hidden headlights. I know this is true for the 4th generation. It is very minimal though and comes down to personal taste.

Grim Reaper

Daytime only. Beware of Camaros at night.