idea: IROC VIII Racecar replica
02-25-2006, 02:49 PM
#1
idea: IROC VIII Racecar replica
I've had this idea for a long time now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. A search turned up at least 1 thread with somebody who had the same idea. I have always longed to build an IROC based on a production car that resembles the IROC racecars from IROC VIII.
I couldn't work for a better company right now to do so, maybe with the exception of working for IROC. I work for Katech, the company that built the engines for IROC in the 80's.
I think I could do it pretty cheaply. I could find a 1985-1990 IROC coupe w/o t-tops that was pretty rough and needed paint or mechanical work. I would completely gut the car and sell the parts not needed. Weld in a cage, weld the doors shut, remove the side glass, paint the interior white, fab a custom dash, throw in some race seats and harnesses, drop in a budget carbureted 350, T-5, hit it with some paint and do some custom vinyl graphics. It would be a fun project and I wouldn't do it to an IROC that was nice to begin with because I would feel guily ruining it, but find one that may be destined for a junkyard anyways and have a little fun with it.
Here are a few of the quirks and how I see getting around them. Any ideas or feedback is appreciated.
CHASSIS:
The IROC racecars were built on a completely unique tubular chassis that was a little longer, wider and shorter than a production IROC. The only production parts used were the roof and a-pillar skins.
Solution; Chop the top a little bit to give it a shorter look. I can't really make it wider. It would have to be extremely slight, because I don't want to hit my head on the ceiling. Maybe don't even chop it at all.
TIRES:
Due to the wider body and chassis, wider tires could be used.
Solution; I would have to find a size of tire that would fit into production side wheel wells and still look somewhat like a replica. Cragar makes some cheap rims that look a lot like the racecar rims, but I'm worried the offset is too much.
BODY:
The racecar has front and rear fascias and sideskirts made by a company called Diversified Products formerly located in nearby Pontiac, Michigan. I don't think they are in business anymore after doing a little bit of searching. If anybody knows the history of this company let me know.
Solution; Short of finding some old pieces from Diversified Products, which would be an absolute miracle, I'd have to make my own. I'd have to fiberglass over the production front and rear facsias and sideskirts to make them larger. Luckily I found some excellent IROC literature at work with some dimensions on it.
ENGINE:
The IROC racecars used a dry sump 350ci 400hp engine built by Katech.
Solution; I could built a wet sump budget 350 that merely resembled the Katech engine. I'm not going so much on performance here as I am on budet and looks.
TRANSMISSION:
The IROCs had a race built 5 speed transmission.
Solution; Simply use a T-5 out of a production IROC
REAR AXLE:
The IROCs had a unique axle with quick change differential.
Solution; I think I would just use the production 10 bolt here
SUSPENSION:
Double wishbone front Grand National suspension.
Solution; Just use production suspension pieces
EXHAUST:
The IROC racecars dumped exhaust out the side under the sideskirt.
Solution; Just use headers and fab true duals dumping out the side.
GRAPHICS:
Solution; Get custom made vinyl to resemble the series. Not difficult, but could get expensive as things add up.
LEGALITY:
The IROCs did not have side view mirrors or turn signals.
Solution; Keep all of the lights operational. Just cover up the headlights with removable headlight covers. Keep the sideview mirrors off and risk it with the cops.
EASE OF USE:
The doors would be welded shut, therefore no side window glass. If it rained I guess you would just have to drive it home. If I wanted to park it somewhere I guess I would just have to leave it open.
Go ahead and give me some ideas/feedback. I should probably also include that I'm no newbie when it comes to IROCs or a project of this scale. I've owned 2 IROCs and 1 Z28. I'm capable of the fabrication and welding involved in the project. I'm a certified mechanic, and I have excellent resources since I work for Katech. I think I'm capable of a do-it-yourself half-assed paint job. My dad painted his 79 Firebird himself and still has all the equipment so there should be no reason why I can't also. I'm experienced in fiberglass work so with enough time I think I could fab some fascias based off the production ones.
Flame away
I couldn't work for a better company right now to do so, maybe with the exception of working for IROC. I work for Katech, the company that built the engines for IROC in the 80's.
I think I could do it pretty cheaply. I could find a 1985-1990 IROC coupe w/o t-tops that was pretty rough and needed paint or mechanical work. I would completely gut the car and sell the parts not needed. Weld in a cage, weld the doors shut, remove the side glass, paint the interior white, fab a custom dash, throw in some race seats and harnesses, drop in a budget carbureted 350, T-5, hit it with some paint and do some custom vinyl graphics. It would be a fun project and I wouldn't do it to an IROC that was nice to begin with because I would feel guily ruining it, but find one that may be destined for a junkyard anyways and have a little fun with it.
Here are a few of the quirks and how I see getting around them. Any ideas or feedback is appreciated.
CHASSIS:
The IROC racecars were built on a completely unique tubular chassis that was a little longer, wider and shorter than a production IROC. The only production parts used were the roof and a-pillar skins.
Solution; Chop the top a little bit to give it a shorter look. I can't really make it wider. It would have to be extremely slight, because I don't want to hit my head on the ceiling. Maybe don't even chop it at all.
TIRES:
Due to the wider body and chassis, wider tires could be used.
Solution; I would have to find a size of tire that would fit into production side wheel wells and still look somewhat like a replica. Cragar makes some cheap rims that look a lot like the racecar rims, but I'm worried the offset is too much.
BODY:
The racecar has front and rear fascias and sideskirts made by a company called Diversified Products formerly located in nearby Pontiac, Michigan. I don't think they are in business anymore after doing a little bit of searching. If anybody knows the history of this company let me know.
Solution; Short of finding some old pieces from Diversified Products, which would be an absolute miracle, I'd have to make my own. I'd have to fiberglass over the production front and rear facsias and sideskirts to make them larger. Luckily I found some excellent IROC literature at work with some dimensions on it.
ENGINE:
The IROC racecars used a dry sump 350ci 400hp engine built by Katech.
Solution; I could built a wet sump budget 350 that merely resembled the Katech engine. I'm not going so much on performance here as I am on budet and looks.
TRANSMISSION:
The IROCs had a race built 5 speed transmission.
Solution; Simply use a T-5 out of a production IROC
REAR AXLE:
The IROCs had a unique axle with quick change differential.
Solution; I think I would just use the production 10 bolt here
SUSPENSION:
Double wishbone front Grand National suspension.
Solution; Just use production suspension pieces
EXHAUST:
The IROC racecars dumped exhaust out the side under the sideskirt.
Solution; Just use headers and fab true duals dumping out the side.
GRAPHICS:
Solution; Get custom made vinyl to resemble the series. Not difficult, but could get expensive as things add up.
LEGALITY:
The IROCs did not have side view mirrors or turn signals.
Solution; Keep all of the lights operational. Just cover up the headlights with removable headlight covers. Keep the sideview mirrors off and risk it with the cops.
EASE OF USE:
The doors would be welded shut, therefore no side window glass. If it rained I guess you would just have to drive it home. If I wanted to park it somewhere I guess I would just have to leave it open.
Go ahead and give me some ideas/feedback. I should probably also include that I'm no newbie when it comes to IROCs or a project of this scale. I've owned 2 IROCs and 1 Z28. I'm capable of the fabrication and welding involved in the project. I'm a certified mechanic, and I have excellent resources since I work for Katech. I think I'm capable of a do-it-yourself half-assed paint job. My dad painted his 79 Firebird himself and still has all the equipment so there should be no reason why I can't also. I'm experienced in fiberglass work so with enough time I think I could fab some fascias based off the production ones.
Flame away
02-26-2006, 11:30 PM
#2
Question... what would you do after it is done? It does sound like one helluva plan and would be very cool to do.
I know it wouldn't be exactly like a IROC car, but here's my suggestion... build it to somebody's rulebook so that should you decide to track it, you won't be illegal for something small. SCCA has American-Sedan and NASA has CamaroMustangChallenge. I'm in the slow process of building mine for CMC. Cage, harnesses etc. They allow front airdams, spoilers, gutted interior and side glass.
A few differences right off the bat tho.. they don't allow welding of the doors, but you can completly gut the door if you're using NASCAR type door bars. Wheels are limited to 16x8s. Solution: Have a street/replica set wik some big fat tires, and a few 16x8s for racing. Now the biggie... both series only use 305's. CMC has a HP/TQ limit, where I don't believe AS does, so an AS motor will cost much more. Solution: Build a fun 350 for street/looks, and a 305 should you go racing.
On the note of removing the side glass, I know a few people who have made 'travel windows' that attach to the car with dzus fasteners for when they trailer their car.
btw NASA's rules are a bit more 'stock' than SCCA's
I know it wouldn't be exactly like a IROC car, but here's my suggestion... build it to somebody's rulebook so that should you decide to track it, you won't be illegal for something small. SCCA has American-Sedan and NASA has CamaroMustangChallenge. I'm in the slow process of building mine for CMC. Cage, harnesses etc. They allow front airdams, spoilers, gutted interior and side glass.
A few differences right off the bat tho.. they don't allow welding of the doors, but you can completly gut the door if you're using NASCAR type door bars. Wheels are limited to 16x8s. Solution: Have a street/replica set wik some big fat tires, and a few 16x8s for racing. Now the biggie... both series only use 305's. CMC has a HP/TQ limit, where I don't believe AS does, so an AS motor will cost much more. Solution: Build a fun 350 for street/looks, and a 305 should you go racing.
On the note of removing the side glass, I know a few people who have made 'travel windows' that attach to the car with dzus fasteners for when they trailer their car.
btw NASA's rules are a bit more 'stock' than SCCA's
02-27-2006, 12:56 AM
#3
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Car: 91 firebird
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
They run the Camaros in the IROC series for several years, so there may be a few of them left around in the back of some racing shops. If this is the case, you might be able to get one of the real cars.
02-27-2006, 06:05 PM
#5
Originally posted by GMan 3MT
Question... what would you do after it is done? It does sound like one helluva plan and would be very cool to do.
I know it wouldn't be exactly like a IROC car, but here's my suggestion... build it to somebody's rulebook so that should you decide to track it, you won't be illegal for something small. SCCA has American-Sedan and NASA has CamaroMustangChallenge. I'm in the slow process of building mine for CMC. Cage, harnesses etc. They allow front airdams, spoilers, gutted interior and side glass.
A few differences right off the bat tho.. they don't allow welding of the doors, but you can completly gut the door if you're using NASCAR type door bars. Wheels are limited to 16x8s. Solution: Have a street/replica set wik some big fat tires, and a few 16x8s for racing. Now the biggie... both series only use 305's. CMC has a HP/TQ limit, where I don't believe AS does, so an AS motor will cost much more. Solution: Build a fun 350 for street/looks, and a 305 should you go racing.
On the note of removing the side glass, I know a few people who have made 'travel windows' that attach to the car with dzus fasteners for when they trailer their car.
btw NASA's rules are a bit more 'stock' than SCCA's
Question... what would you do after it is done? It does sound like one helluva plan and would be very cool to do.
I know it wouldn't be exactly like a IROC car, but here's my suggestion... build it to somebody's rulebook so that should you decide to track it, you won't be illegal for something small. SCCA has American-Sedan and NASA has CamaroMustangChallenge. I'm in the slow process of building mine for CMC. Cage, harnesses etc. They allow front airdams, spoilers, gutted interior and side glass.
A few differences right off the bat tho.. they don't allow welding of the doors, but you can completly gut the door if you're using NASCAR type door bars. Wheels are limited to 16x8s. Solution: Have a street/replica set wik some big fat tires, and a few 16x8s for racing. Now the biggie... both series only use 305's. CMC has a HP/TQ limit, where I don't believe AS does, so an AS motor will cost much more. Solution: Build a fun 350 for street/looks, and a 305 should you go racing.
On the note of removing the side glass, I know a few people who have made 'travel windows' that attach to the car with dzus fasteners for when they trailer their car.
btw NASA's rules are a bit more 'stock' than SCCA's
Good thoughts. This project would be purely for fun. I don't want to build it to the constraints of any specific rules, rather just to have fun and build it how I want it. It would be mainly for street fun and for my own personal fulfillment. It's not necessarily intended for road racing or drag racing. It might see the track once or twice just for fun. Are you asking me if I would sell it?
Originally posted by stitchop
They run the Camaros in the IROC series for several years, so there may be a few of them left around in the back of some racing shops. If this is the case, you might be able to get one of the real cars.
They run the Camaros in the IROC series for several years, so there may be a few of them left around in the back of some racing shops. If this is the case, you might be able to get one of the real cars.
Originally posted by ajmclean
great idea
but beware u cant use a standard T5 on 400 hp engine
it will break,
great idea
but beware u cant use a standard T5 on 400 hp engine
it will break,
You just have to not care if it breaks. Seriously though, if I'm not launching it at the track or running it hard on the road course I would feel confident using it for street driving. If it breaks, it breaks.
02-27-2006, 07:02 PM
#6
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Hey skirocz28 or anyone else...
What tranny was put into the IROC race cars - were they T5's or richmond or... Not sure what you meant by race built.
And on another note - the max displacment was 305cid, but was this limit the same sort of thing the R7U car's had to follow - or were aftermarket heads, rods, cam used in the mix.
Sorry if these are dumb questions I'm curious tho...
-Andrew
What tranny was put into the IROC race cars - were they T5's or richmond or... Not sure what you meant by race built.
And on another note - the max displacment was 305cid, but was this limit the same sort of thing the R7U car's had to follow - or were aftermarket heads, rods, cam used in the mix.
Sorry if these are dumb questions I'm curious tho...
-Andrew
02-27-2006, 07:53 PM
#7
Originally posted by kaptinkafeen
Hey skirocz28 or anyone else...
What tranny was put into the IROC race cars - were they T5's or richmond or... Not sure what you meant by race built.
And on another note - the max displacment was 305cid, but was this limit the same sort of thing the R7U car's had to follow - or were aftermarket heads, rods, cam used in the mix.
Sorry if these are dumb questions I'm curious tho...
-Andrew
Hey skirocz28 or anyone else...
What tranny was put into the IROC race cars - were they T5's or richmond or... Not sure what you meant by race built.
And on another note - the max displacment was 305cid, but was this limit the same sort of thing the R7U car's had to follow - or were aftermarket heads, rods, cam used in the mix.
Sorry if these are dumb questions I'm curious tho...
-Andrew
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02-28-2006, 05:50 PM
#8
Originally posted by stitchop
They run the Camaros in the IROC series for several years, so there may be a few of them left around in the back of some racing shops. If this is the case, you might be able to get one of the real cars.
They run the Camaros in the IROC series for several years, so there may be a few of them left around in the back of some racing shops. If this is the case, you might be able to get one of the real cars.
We dug up a great video tour of Katech circa 1984. I'm going to finish watching it later. It had an IROC race on the tape. I also got my first decal for the car today. This is an ORIGINAL air cleaner lid decal.
with
03-01-2006, 05:42 PM
#11
Originally posted by Red1992V6Rs
All I have to say is that this is quite possibly the best thing since sliced bread.
All I have to say is that this is quite possibly the best thing since sliced bread.
03-02-2006, 01:07 AM
#12
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Car: 1992 RS
Engine: 3.1
Transmission: Auto
It's nice to see positive feedback for a change. Other forums are nothing but flamers it seems. Not on this topic, I'm talking in general.
03-02-2006, 05:09 PM
#13
Originally posted by Red1992V6Rs
Wow, I don't get that at all. With the 1,000,000+ thirdgens out there, they are flaming you? I wouldn't consider you tearing up the car. Your trying to replicate a racecar that gave Iroc's their name. I would have never thought about making a replica Iroc car, and to see someone do it, its awesome. It's going to take a lot of time and effort, and I have to support you. It's not like anyone else has tried it. Good luck with it, and if you need any opinions or what not, shout me a PM.
Wow, I don't get that at all. With the 1,000,000+ thirdgens out there, they are flaming you? I wouldn't consider you tearing up the car. Your trying to replicate a racecar that gave Iroc's their name. I would have never thought about making a replica Iroc car, and to see someone do it, its awesome. It's going to take a lot of time and effort, and I have to support you. It's not like anyone else has tried it. Good luck with it, and if you need any opinions or what not, shout me a PM.
03-03-2006, 01:33 AM
#14
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Car: 91 firebird
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Originally posted by skirocz28
Nobody flamed this idea on other boards. I'm talking about other topics.
Nobody flamed this idea on other boards. I'm talking about other topics.
03-03-2006, 01:34 AM
#15
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Car: 91 firebird
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Originally posted by skirocz28
Nobody flamed this idea on other boards. I'm talking about other topics.
Nobody flamed this idea on other boards. I'm talking about other topics.
03-06-2006, 10:28 AM
#16
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Engine: 305/383
Transmission: WC T5
Axle/Gears: 3:42
It's a great idea, but you don't have to use an Iroc if you don't want to; any 3rd gen Camaro will work, as the Iroc racing cars were just tube frames!
EDIT: lol never mind, you know that already!
It's a neat idea, I like it! Do it really nice and show it off! Maybe you'll get some media coverage or something!
Also, I don't know if the laws are different in each state for mirrors, but in MA all you need is ONE rear mirror, so the interior one works.
EDIT: lol never mind, you know that already!
It's a neat idea, I like it! Do it really nice and show it off! Maybe you'll get some media coverage or something!
Also, I don't know if the laws are different in each state for mirrors, but in MA all you need is ONE rear mirror, so the interior one works.
03-09-2006, 12:29 PM
#17
Originally posted by aaron7
It's a great idea, but you don't have to use an Iroc if you don't want to; any 3rd gen Camaro will work, as the Iroc racing cars were just tube frames!
EDIT: lol never mind, you know that already!
It's a neat idea, I like it! Do it really nice and show it off! Maybe you'll get some media coverage or something!
Also, I don't know if the laws are different in each state for mirrors, but in MA all you need is ONE rear mirror, so the interior one works.
It's a great idea, but you don't have to use an Iroc if you don't want to; any 3rd gen Camaro will work, as the Iroc racing cars were just tube frames!
EDIT: lol never mind, you know that already!
It's a neat idea, I like it! Do it really nice and show it off! Maybe you'll get some media coverage or something!
Also, I don't know if the laws are different in each state for mirrors, but in MA all you need is ONE rear mirror, so the interior one works.
In Michigan the minimum is a left side mirror. You dont have to have the inside mirror because cube trucks dont.
03-10-2006, 12:52 PM
#18
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You might double check the law, I believe MI requires 2 mirrors minimum. New cars I think may be required to have at least the outside mirrors on both sides. Older cars in the 60s were required to have one on the LH side.
John
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