Mikes86SC

I noticed nobosy's brought it up lately, and I was just wondering what the latest news was. Is the F-body done for? Are they gonna brng it back? Is it gonna go FWD? Whoever's got the latest scoop, let's hear it!

------------------
86 Sport Coupe, 2.8 V6, dead stock, but not for long!

Daily driver:
2000 Pontiac Grand Am SE2

"Little girls play with ponies!"
www.geocities.com/camman86

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

If they continue to make them as ugly as they are now who cares?

Keith5

I think their're perty! I really like the 4th gen's all of them. Except for the 93 to 97 birds, I don't like those too much.

I love the Camaro's with composite headlights, can't figure out why no one of here likes them. Go to the dealership, stand in front of a new z28 about 6 inches away and look down at it's front end. Is that mean looking or what?

Pino91Formula

well they are gone for now , will they come back maybe ? as for them being ugly , how can you say that , ill take any Fbody from any year.. well i guess its because i love all firebirds allways have allways will its just i have a soft spot for the thridgen , but id trade in a second for a 70 1/2 TA

ls1powerbaby

you couldn't be more wrong =)


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2001 Black WS6 T/A A4
Direct-air flow lid w/K&N filter

daily driver '88 ford taurus AKA "the tank"

jm91rs

look at a new firehawk and tell me its ugly. new ta's and z's (with gfx) are so sweet.

jimbo

???

...right now 2002 is the last year for the f-body platform as we know it today. If the Firebird or Camaro name is resurrected in the future, it'll be on a new platform...

...hopefully a rwd one...

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jimbo

Mosquito Coast F-Body Association (MCFBA)

1991 Formula SLP350
1999 Trans Am Firehawk

[This message has been edited by jimbo (edited March 27, 2001).]

superz

car craft magazine said that 2002 or 2003 was the last year and that they may be back for 2004 or 2005. they also said that it will be a new platform with (these are all rumors) independent rear suspension, and only one F-car will be back, either the camaro or the firebird. in have a camaro and love camaros, but i kinda hope if they only bring one back, that it is the firebird.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

I stand by my original post. The fourth gen cars are butt ugly. The Camaros look like Geos and the Firebirds look like Saturns. The interiors look like they belong in a Maxima. They look like an import, they don't have that tough American muscle look. It's a sad day when a new Mustang looks MUCH better than a new F-body. Sure they're fast, but third gen cars are a much better platform to build on. They are much easier to work on and much better looking.

jimbo

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I doubt that it's shared by the majority...not that it makes any difference. As far as the 3rd gen being a better platform to build off of...how so? Right now, 3rd gen performance parts are less expensive than 4th gen LS1 parts (and pretty comparable to LT1 parts), but with an LT1 you're building off a base hp of 275 minimum, and with an LS1 you're building off a base hp of 305 mimimum (which is a significantly underated number I might add). You can get an LT1 or LS1 into the low 12's for under a grand (and with an LS1 into the high 12's with just a set of drag radials). It has cost me several grand in parts alone to get my L98 to that performance level (and I started with 290hp with the SLP Performance Package option in my '91). And as well as the 3rd gen WS6 birds handled, they don't hold a candle to the 4th gens, stock for stock. I'll agree with you that the 3rd gens look more muscular, but the 4th gens sportscar like styling is definitely far more eye appealing than the Mustangs IMO. Unfortunately, the f-body platform is dated, and it's time for it to be replaced. We can only hope that when it's replacement comes along, it is a vehicle worthy of the Camaro and Firebird heritage...



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jimbo

Mosquito Coast F-Body Association (MCFBA)

1991 Formula SLP350
1999 Trans Am Firehawk

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

I don't know how anyone can claim that the fourth gen cars have a better platform to build on than the thirdgen cars. Just the engine bay alone makes it a better choice. You can put anything in a thirdgen car. Try putting a carb engine or a big block in a fourth generation f-body. In addition,the amount of parts available for small block Chevy engines is staggering. You can build any type of engine possible. The new engines have a limited selection of aftermarket parts. Any engine work on a thirdgen car is much easier too. The thirdgen engine bay is tight but the fourthgen bay is a nightmare. I can't imagine having to put headers on a new f-body. The simplicity of the thirdgen cars allows for more options than the newer cars making it a better platform for buildup.

BLACKIROCZ

I agree with "LAFN AT U", the 4th Gen cars are U-G-L-Y!!!!

While I do appreciate their "performance", that is where the good things stop. They do look like a big GEO. Don't send me hate mail, as I am only voicing my opinion, it seems that everyone that I know, thinks that thise cars are "visually challenged". The visiblility in them SUCKS!!!!

I have been a diehard GM guy for many years and if I had to buy a 4th Gen F-Body or a new Mustang, I would be sporting the "Bullit" Edition Mustang. The Mustang outsells both the Pontiac and Chevy combined, because GM strayed too far from the F-Body's original concept. Ford hit the nail right on the head when they tried to "update" the looks of the Mustang so that it was more like the 60's cars. GM should learn something from Ford there.

As far as them killing the cars, if it would save it from coming back as a front driver, than I am all for it!!! Let them take some time, do their homework, and bring back the car that every F-body owner really wants.....Not a GEO look-a-like!!!!!

20-psi

I heard the f-bodies are comming back in 2004 and will be sold by Oldsmobile. They will have the 270 HP straight six in them.

Pete

eightTfourTA

iTrader: (3)

I think the newer 4th gen Trans Am looks great. It looks like it has biceps that it's flexing or somethin' like that. I never liked the 93-96ish ones, they look like a spoon on wheels with the way the front end is shaped. I don't really care much for the way the front end of the Camaro looks now either, reminds me of a Chrysler.
BUT, why would you want to put another engine in a 4th gen? The LT1 & LS1 can hold their own with the right mods. Unless it's a 6cyl....but why get one of those, anyway?

------------------
DR Stevens
Car #1: my ride
1984 TransAm
305HO(L69) 96K & counting
750 cfm Q-Jet/Holley rem.
K&N filter
700R4/Superior shift-kit
and trans cooler
3.42 rear/3.73 blew up!!
underdrive pulleys
Accel HEI Super-Coil
180 stat/hi flow water
pump/Jet fan switch
dual snorkel/'84 ram air
3" exhaust of some sort
partial emissions delete
Car #2: My wife's ride
1991 Firebird/Formula
305TBI(LO3) 99K & smoking
K&N air filter
Hypertech Chip
more engine mods later
"Hey, Uncle Sam!! Where's my f**king tax return??!!"

PhantomTPI

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And my opinion is that anyone who would want a pos ford gangb**gstang over an f-body is on crack. But thats just me. Personally, i think the new stangs are FUGLY. If someone ever gave me one, and I couldnt sell it, I'd give it to the local recycling plant. I love the 3rd and 4th gen cars, but when it comes down to it, i'd rather have my 3rd gen...because once i get it the way i want it, the looks alone will set it apart any 4th gen thats factory. The availability of 4th gen engine parts is not as common as our 3rd gens. They are also double, even triple in price. This is due to the fact that the new engine is relatively still a "new" concept, and is still undergoing a certain "development." IE: C5 Corvette's HP on the LS1 went from 345 in 1998, to 350 in 1999...becuase of factory improvements in the engine. The TPI engine is an outdated product...its been around for 14 some odd years. Everyone knows about them, how to work on them, etc etc etc....its all been done. Parts will be cheap for it. Same with the LT1...easy to work on, cheaper parts. In a few years, the LS1 will take the same route...but by then, something newer may pop up, and that will be the standard to set everything else to. This is the way it will always be. The newer, badder, latest craze will become yesterday's news, and to do things with it wont be as big of an issue as it was when it was new. Its like the computers we own...same story...just with our beloved hobby...thats my $.05

------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited March 28, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited March 28, 2001).]

BLACKIROCZ

Wow..there must be a heck of a lot of people on crack then................

jimbo

...yeah there are, but they're mostly secretaries...



[This message has been edited by jimbo (edited March 28, 2001).]

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

Well enough ripping on the fourth gen cars...for now. I've got a complaint about the owners. In general, the owners of the new f-bodies have become what the Mustang 5.0 owners were 10 years ago. They go out and buy a new car, put an exhaust and intake set up on it and think they're king of the street. Whatever!!! I own seven third gen cars and some of them have to sit outside. I've got some moron who drives by my house in his new Camaro and stomps on it every time. He must think I'll be impressed or something. Just wait until I pull out my beast ('82 Firebird) and blow his doors off. That should stop his little show.

[This message has been edited by LFN AT U (edited March 28, 2001).]

jimbo

...ya know, generalizing is a lot like like assuming...and you know what happens when you assume. The monthly f-body cruise in down here attracts probably anywhere between 120-140 f-bodies...and probably 95% of those are 4th gens, with the remainder being 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I've never seen anyone there talk down to a non-4th gen owner or make them feel less than welcome. Every show I've attended with my 3rd gen including two Gatherings in Atlanta have only exhibited the utmost camaraderie between all generations. I am sure that there are some jerkweed 4th gen owners out there, just like there are jerkweed 3rd gen, Vette, and Mustang owners, but to generalize against the owners of any make or model vehicle only serves to build walls between people who all share a common interest...than being performance automobiles.

[This message has been edited by jimbo (edited March 28, 2001).]

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

Notice I said "in general". Sure there are some owners that are cool. I'm just saying that there seem to be more of them that want to be idiots. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've had a lot of other people tell me the same thing.

Greg90iroc

the statment that stock to stock the 4th gen will out handle a 3rd gen. my car has relativly low milage and the suspension is still pretty tight with new shocks and struts I will out handle many 4th gen cars with moded suspensions. I carry 3 to 5 mph more through a certan corner than a certin 4th gen z-28 with a highly moded autocross suspension. I do have superior tires but still that is alot more speed through a corner. I don't know if the 90 iroc had diffrent springs or something but my car will out handle just about every stock 4th gen. it will also out run all stock lt1 cars that i have raced. it sounds to me like the 3rd gen is a better chassis. when the 3rd gen suspension is in good shape it handles very well. The camaro will never die. it may take a break for a few years but after they introduce a new camaro the sales will increase.

------------------
90 IROC l98
last season best corected 13.62 @102
mods
full exhaust, AFPR, pulley, jet stage 1 chip, billet servo, 52mm throttle body, slp runners and some 1.6 RR's and a few other little things.
243 RWHP and 342 RWTQ with hot engine and 90 octain fuel

BadBowTie

I don't think the forth gen cars are ugly, just boring.

PhantomTPI

My stock-suspensioned 86 TA outhandles my friend's 97 Z28 30th Anniversary, my friend's 94 TA, and my other friend's 99TA. Everyone has stock suspension on their cars, with light modifications to the intake/exhaust/computer. I think on the 3rd gens, it has alot to do with the sway bar, and tire sizes...

------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

Tom Batts

I'll have to agree... I have a '98 and an '86. I can just YANK the hell out of the wheel on the '86 and it's like it's on RAILS... really tight even with 169,000 miles on it. The '98 is not quite as good in the tight stuff. Of course my '98 is not a WS6 and my '86 is...

<font face="Arial"><a href="http://www.geocities.com/battstas/cars/transams.html" target="_blank"><font size="2">Click here to see my Trans Ams</font></a>
<font size="1">1986 Trans Am WS6 (#40,977 of 48,870)- Silver, 305TPI, 16" charcoal gray cross-lace wheels. 168,500 miles, LB9, 700R4.</font></font>
<img src="http://www.fbody.com/members/98TransAm/86/1986.jpg" width="200" height="80">

<font face="Arial" size="2" color="#FF0000"><marquee width="201" height="18" scrollamount="3" bgcolor="#000000">CURRENTLY: the '86 was rear-ended in Austin (about 3K worth of damage), and is undergoing repairs.&nbsp;</marquee></font>

<font face="Arial" size="1"><a href="http://www.fbody.com/members/98TransAm/DSC00037a.jpg">'98 Trans Am</a>- (#907 of 12,046)- 3.23 4A, Chrome Wheels. 62,000 miles. <a href="http://www.fbody.com/members/98TransAm/DSC00055ga.jpg">'99 Honda VFR800fi</a>- 5,000 miles, GIVI wind screen <a href="http://www.fbody.com/members/98TransAm/99rodeo1.jpg">'99 Isuzu Rodeo</a>- V6 2WD 20,000 miles. </font>


[This message has been edited by Tom Batts (edited March 31, 2001).]

jimbo

...I have the Bilstein Level II suspension on my '99. On it's best day, my '91 WS6 couldn't or wouldn't hold a candle to its handling, but then again, I wouldn't expect it to...there's a decade diference in technology. There is no doubt in my mind that with aftermarket pieces, I could make my '91 handle like the '99. Stock however...NFW...

------------------
jimbo

Mosquito Coast F-Body Association (MCFBA)

1991 Formula SLP350
1999 Trans Am Firehawk

98_1LE

I think they all look great To each his own. It looks like 2002 is the end of this platform, and maybe the line as well. I'm hoping for a new V8 F-body with IRS in a few years. As for handling, it's my opinion that my '87 WS6 Formula handles as well as my '98 1LE Z28, it just doesn't stop or accelerate nearly as fast. Thirdgen brakes are scary sometimes.

------------------
87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

irocz_ca

according to this article, gm has not decided on f-bodies' fate. yet... http://www.motortrend.com/news/stories/112199gm.html

PhantomTPI

Forgot to mention....all 3 of my friends with the 4th gen's have ridden in my car before. It was THEM who pointed out the handling and told me my 86 handled better. I didnt believe it until we put it to the test...where I used to live, there was an exit ramp which was a sharp S-curve type ramp. I first followed my friend with the 30th Anniv. through it...he took it as fast as he could wihout letting the back end slip...you could hear his tires. I was on his @$$, and my tires were quiet. My friend in the 94 TA followed me one day, and couldnt keep up with me on the same ramp. Its all suspenion(sway bar, shocks, etc) and tire/wheel sizes. Thats the difference between 3rd-4th gen handling. My car(the way it seems) is also a WS6...these 3 are not, so that also i am sure, plays a role.



------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

Happy17yearold

I am a newbie to the f-body scene but one of the main reason i picked a third gen was because the parts are available and with some work i can make my car respectable and alot of fun to drive....I love the fact that when i drive it i get stares because in my school there seems to be some rule on everyone owning a honda....as far as the fourth gen cars i dislike the 93-97 because the camaro looks plain and the firebird nose is horrible.....I love the new firebirds and the camaro has improved but with a part time in a body shop i dont see myself driving one soon

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1988 Firebird trans am 305 tbi LO3......Hey for 600 bucks i cant ask for more but i am going to swap the engine and spank some rice

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

PhantomTPI: Your comparison fails to take into account the difference in the drivers. A true comparison is for the same driver to drive BOTH cars and compare their times. Better yet do a G-Tech comparison as well.

As far as the fate of the F-body; I am encouraged by a recent article I read of GM's plan to convert the entire Caddy line-up back to rwd. Also that the new GM facility in Lansing will build a new rwd Saturn. This means there will be a lot more platforms available to build the 5th Gen F-body from. The important first step will be getting the F-body out of the Ste. Therese facility and the restrictive Union contracts.

------------------
90 RS Convertible
http://www.sc3gfb.org/members/lonsal.html
http://www.taskerinc.com/gs3/profiles/Lon_profile.htm

PhantomTPI

lonsal,

Maybe i should have mentioned that i have driven all three of the other cars and driven them the way i like to drive mine through curves, as all three of the other guys have driven my 86, and I too, can feel the difference, and so can they. Reguardless, i wasnt the one who noticed this first...it was my other 3 friends who pointed it out to me. I believe it, and if you do a comparison, the 3rd gen does have a larger sway bar, and i believe the WS6 opioned cars that are 3rd gens also have wider tires. Coupled with the tighter suspension and also the width of the car, generally speaking, it should handle better than the newer, narrower, 4th gens. I am just posting my experiences, and maybe a device like a G-Tech would be more accurate...this is just somehting that the 4 of us stumbled on, and realized and we all also felt the difference.



------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited April 01, 2001).]

bird67

Actually I heard it's going to be Oldsmobile's legendary "Quad 4" engine that powered the unforgettable 442 of the mid '80s. And, instead of "SS", the performance Camaro will be called the "Camaro Achieva." Pontiac's version with have its famous "Rope Drive," last seen in the 1963 Tempest.

Good times are a comin'!

98_1LE

PhantomTPI - Same tires (245/50/16) on both gens, I'm not sure about measured track width, but my fourth gen is wider than my thirdgen in the garage. The thirdgens have bigger sway bars and stiffer springs; my '87 WS6 front bar is 36 mm, my '98 1LE bar is 32 mm, 93+ Z28 has 30 mm front. Rear '87 WS6 bar is 24 mm compared to all fourth gen's 19 mm rear (except '93 1LE 21 mm). The '87 has 450 #/in front springs, the '87 1LE has 360 #/in springs and the fourthgen base springs are 30 % ligther than the 1LE Ironically my steel bodied '87 with iron block/heads and power options weighs within 30# of the plastic bodied, aluminum block/heads, no option '98 The chassis on the '98 is alot stiffer and the brakes are light years ahead though, maybe that adds some weight.

------------------
87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

Ovrclck350

Maybe he just knows you're jealous. So what if they put exhaust and nothing else on it. They've got the power to do that. What do you want them to do? Cam/Exhaust/MAF would be all I'd do to a LS1. And the only reason I'd even mess w/ the cam is that you can change it without pullin the heads.


You can't count the little voices in your head. j/k

PhantomTPI

98_1LE...

It seemed to be that the thirdgens looked wider to me than the 4th...but i guess not. Well, either way, all four of us in my little "Clan" of F-body owners agree that my 86 handles better than the 4th gens...as long as its stock. I am surprized though...when i parked my 86 next to my friend's 99 TA, his seemed narrower. Oh well...yes, the chassis is definetly much more stiffer than the 86, and it could add more weight....

------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH

rezinn

Whenever I park next to my brothers 2000z, my car looks wider. You know why? Because the back tapers, haven't you noticed how tires on a 3rd gen look REALLY wide? Might not be as wide, but it looks like it because of the body style.

jimbo

...I have 275/40/ZR17 tires and 9.5" wheels on both my 3rd and 4th gen cars. On the '91, the outside of the tires are even with the fender well opening. On the '99, they're well inside it. Plus, the very back end of the '99 tapers in, and it is in fact narrower than the 3rd gen if measured across the tailights. It gives the illusion that the '91 is wider.





------------------
jimbo

Mosquito Coast F-Body Association (MCFBA)

1991 Formula SLP350
1999 Trans Am Firehawk

PhantomTPI

This is why i was "tricked" into believing it that the 4th gen is wider....it gives that illusion becuase of how the tires sit on both cars, and becasue of how the back tapers in.

------------------
1986 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

Ovrclck350...Jealous my a$$!!! It seems to me who's the one whose jealous. If I wanted one I'd have one. I own currently own seven thirdgen cars. It's not like I can't afford one. A fourth gen car cannot match a thirdgen for looks or performance potential. My beast is a 500+ horse '82 Firebird. I'm already planning on an engine swap to get me 800+ horses. It will hopefully get done next year. All I have to do is bring it out and run him and we'll see whose jealous.
One more thing, I didn't say there was anything wrong with just putting an exhaust on. What I said was that people make a few minor modifications and think they're king of the street. I know with 500+ horses I can beat most cars around but I don't go around and try to show it off. I know there are cars around that would blow me away. I'm not sure if my car is even fast enough to have the plate "LFN AT U" (Laughin' at you). That's why I'm planning on the new engine.

[This message has been edited by LFN AT U (edited April 03, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by LFN AT U (edited April 03, 2001).]

BLACKIROCZ

So Ovrclck350 what do you drive???? Maybe if you enjoy ugly 4th gen cars so much you should go hang out on their board!!!! I agree with LAFN AT U, I have a 3rd Gen car that will Humilate 99.9% of the 4th Gen cars, and my third gen looks a million times bertter, I think that you got the facts backwards, it is the 4th Gen owners that are jealous!!!!!!

98_1LE

Truth is that there 100+ 13 second or faster fourthgens for every 13 second thirgen. Why is there so much anti-fourthgen bs on this board? I can only think of one possibe reason?It's not like they are ****!

------------------
87 Formula 350 13.94@96.67
98 Z28 1LE 13.15@107.59
1LE Owners Association

89FormulaL98

You guys ARE on crack!
I will agree that the 3rd gen looks more like a muscle car... i love my 3rd gen to death and i would never sell it,

But geeze, the 4th gens look so bad *** they were the first cars to get that styling back in the early nineties, everything else was all boxy. Now lots of things look similar to it because car manufactuers want to make everything "sporty" As for the 3rd gen being a better platform? maybe for someone who can aford to drop a whole new engine in! I for one cant afford to do that, nore would i want to. TPI is what defines my car. If i were to go buy your logic, LFN AT U, the G-body would be a much better choice. it may not be pretty, but hey, it does fold in half.

i just dont see why were are aguing about this, all f-bodys are great, and anyone on this board that whould rather have a new mustang than a new camaro, is either a friggin woman, or needs to be shot!
the new mustang is a chick car

------------------
89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms

more to come soon.....

My temporary P.O.S. website: www.angelfire.com/il3/DuPageSpeed

PhantomTPI

I'm with ya on that one 89Formula...i wouldnt trade my 86 114,500 mile faded bumper paint, door dinged, seat ripped ***hp TPI 3rd gen even for a N E W cobra(notice the word BRA in Cobra)...h*ll no...its all about pride, baby...GM has been in my family since birth. It will remain that way...till death do us part...

------------------
1986 WS6 5.0 TPI Trans Am
Random Tech High-Flow Cat
Two Chamber Flowmaster Muffler
Megs Custom 4.5" Stainless Steel Tips
1999 Grand Am GT In-Dash CD Player w/Equalizer(fits like '86 original)
5% Tint On Rear, 35% On Sides

OTHER RIDE:
1998 C5 6Spd. Corvette
Silver w/Gray Leather Int.
12/14 Options
Stock(for now)
Best 1/4th: 13.5 @ 104.4MPH

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited April 03, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by PhantomTPI (edited April 03, 2001).]

BLACKIROCZ

"If i were to go buy your logic, LFN AT U, the G-body would be a much better choice. it may not be pretty, but hey, it does fold in half."

You are correct about the above statement. Any rear wheel, full frame car is a perfect starting point for a race car. Go to the track and see how many Malibu's, Monte SS's, ect there are racing......lots of them. They are a great platform to modify...I own 3 of them.

As for buying a New Mustang over a new F-Body...I condone buying a Ford (I currently own 5 Chevy's, 0 Fords), I would not go out and buy a new Mustang, but if I HAD to buy a New F-Body or New Mustang (which THANK GOD I do not) I would choose the Mustang. Sorry just my opinion. I have been a GM guy since day one when I bought my first SS396 Chevelle, but point is, Ford realizes what the people want, and designed the Mustang more like the old one of the 60's. They took some of those styling clues from the first ones, and molded them into the new ones. If GM did that...........LOOK OUT.....They would sell a zillion. All we are saying is that since 1993 the F-Body sales have fallen off BIG TIME. Customers sure are not unhappy with the drivetrain (Because they ARE quick cars from the factory), so it must be the looks. I have talked to about a million people about this, and all agree, the Camaro and Firebirds need a revamp!!!

What's the saying......."You can't polish a turd....", they need to start over and redesign the whole thing. Put the ls6 motor in it, get similar lines to the 60's cars, keep the price down, and watch them fly out of the showroom floors....seems pretty basic to me.................(but keep them rear drive for gods sake) Maybe someday GM will listen.

I think that this topic was blown way out of proportion.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

89FormulaL98...You're right, Chevy did beat everyone else with the new Camaro styling. It was on a car called a Geo Storm.

BLACKIROCZ

SLAM!!!! Sometimes the truth hurts!!!!

PONTIMANIAC 90

Here's my opinion; The 98-up Ram-air TA is MOTTS! The 4th Gen Camaros are slightly bigger Geo Storms, given.
What I don't understand is all this loyalty to 3rd gens and anymosity to everything else. Sure, 3rd gens are good platforms for build-ups.As a matter of fact they NEED to be built-up.As car manufacturers tryed to comply to new emssions crap,back in those days, the best they could come up with were 200-250hp V8 cars.Unmodified, 3rd gen cars are pathetic by today's standarts.
Stock GTAs and IROCs are Honda Accord fodder. Never mind recent mustangs.
As far as 4th gens, I went to a dealers auction w/hopes of buying an LT1 4th gen,LT1 Impala SS or a 5.0 stang. I was also looking for a TT 300zx but those are rare at auctions. The reason I bought my 3rd gen is because it was a 5speed TPI, went dirt chear(2K)
and it was in near showroom condition. I also have a prticular fondness for 3rd gen firebirds since I bought an 87 TPI TA back in 87 and had it stollen 4 month later.
In now wa am I limited to F-bodies. Be damn happy that you have the Mustang.It's still a RWD V8. If they bring back the Camaro and F-bird, in the same way they brought back the Grand Prix, Grand Am and Monte Carlo SS and don' get me started on the Nova and the recent Impala fiascoe.
If that's the future of the F-body, thanks but I'll pass.If a RWD Japanese TT car and the Stang is all that's out there as far as muscle, sign me up.
I'd like to think that even though this is a 3rdGen site,most folks here are muscle car nuts, like myself and appreciate any and all performance cars. I have a 99 Lexus GS400 and the sad part, and I DO MEAN SAD, is that a gloryfied V8 Toyota Camry can take out a stock 5.7L IROC, in the 1/4M.
Anyway my point is, be glad that there are some TRUE muscle cars left, out there.No matter what they are. I look forward to picking up an LS1 car, dirt cheap, in a few years. All the fun to be had. Hehee.


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1990 Formula
Factory:TPI-305/Dual Cat(230hp),5 Speed,3.42 rear, Dealer:Aluminum Drive Shaft
Mods:SLP air foil,K&N Filter, Accel:wires,coil cap,rotor.Hypertech Thermomaster chip,Stat,Fan switch,TES headers,MSD6AL,AFPR(46), Harwood fiberglass hood,original GM "Notchback GTA" hatch.
Flowmaster 3" Cat-back exhaust,TB coolant bypass, Centerforce clutch (going).

TINFY Racing

ok first off stop the damn bickering yes this is a thirdgen site dedicated to the love of thirdgens but everyone is entiled to there own opinions. stop slamming people because they like something that you dont thats why there are choices. i dont care which is a better platform to start with or which handles better stock. all i know is that i want the f body to live on true to is form as both camaros and firebirds not one or the other. TINFY

TINFY Racing

and one last thing early second gen camaros and all second gen Firebird and TAs look better than any of the newer stuff(thirdgens included) 'nough said TINFY

scottmoyer

What legendary "Quad 4" engine powered the mid 80's 442's? The mid 80's 442's were all 307 HO v8 motors on a RWD platform. The quad 4 was an early 90's motor. I got an 86 442 with 29k miles on it now and it won't compare at all to a Chevy. the 170hp motor is a dog!!



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87 IROC 350 TPI with less than 10k original miles
www.users.uswest.net/~smoyer/iroc.htm
www.northstarcamaroclub.com