Gotta throw this out to the group. If I'm typical of many, I'm part of the problem that is causing GM to kill the f-body. I never bought a 3d gen new. I liked them, but I knew that if I waited, I could buy one used in good shape and enjoy the car. It worked. I paid $5000 for a 1992 convertible that cost over $20,000 new, and I'll enjoy it just as much as if I bought it in 1992. You could argue that I cost GM a sale, since rather than pay to buy one new, I waited to buy one used. I was willing to trade off having the latest up-to-date version for paying far less for the car.

I like 4th gens too. I could buy have bought one new, and still could. In fact, I'd like to have a T/A WS6 convertible. I could buy one new, but I've chosen not to. That's because I know that in a few years, I'll be able to find a used one that was well cared for for less than half of what it would have cost new. Again, I'm willing to wait, even though it means if/when I eventually buy one it will no longer be the latest, most up-to-date version of the car.

I assume I'm not alone. It seems that very few of us on this list are original owners who paid for our cars new. So we enthusiasts of these cars are the ones who wanted them new, but either couldn't afford or chose not to buy them new.

So isn't that GM's problem? There are many more people who are fans of the f-body than there are people who are willing to pay full price to buy them new?

Of course, one could argue that GM is in part to blame - their cars do not hold their value as well as some other manufacturer's cars (mostly if not all foreign), so you can pretty much count on getting a great car for far less money if you're willing to wait and take one with a few miles on it.

I'm not at all criticizing any of us, just making an observation about why GM is killing the f-body. The bottom line: many of us are enthusiasts, but relatively few are willing to pay full price to buy one direct from GM.

Comments?

 

yes.... I think the bottom line is that GM priced these cars out of their intended market. The people who can afford them, can buy Vettes. The late teen/early twentysomethings who want one, can't buy one, because they cost $25k+, and the insurance is too damn high. The Camaro and Firebird line just can't survive on 'parasites' like us, who buy the cars when they are used. Someone has to make the initial purchase.

------------------
91 Trans Am WS6
Bright White
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter

Built on Wednesday

 

Parasites! The perfect word. That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Our parasitic behavior is made possible because GM combines (a) poor resale value with (b) excellent quality vehicles that last a long time and are therefore a great value used.

 

Do not want to sound as though I am union bashing but if you look at the wages that the assemblers are getting, some one has to pay for the wages and benefits. As the economy takes a nose dive, the auto industry is the first to have layoffs.

 

I think you also have to local at the market place. All the people that "can afford it" are buying SUVs. GM sees the profit margins in SUVs and the demand and are just responding to the market place. Why have a plant operating at less than 50% capicity, making cars it cannot sell; while they have a demand for another particular vehicle that is currently exceeding plant capacity and they can sell everyone they make.

The plain simple fact is, there is only a limited market for these cars and the demand is decreasing every year. Its damn tough to get the "soccer moms" to haul all the kids in a F-body (though the kids that are able to fit in would love it) or carry a sheet of plywood from from the lumber yard.

For the "pony car market", there is only enough room in town for one car; and the Mustang won, sorry to say.

 

I agree that GM is merely responding to the market. SUV's won. They provide station wagon versatility to an entire generation that swore it would never drive a station wagon (or minivan for that matter). GM killing the f-body is a rational, though for us highly regrettable, free-market decision.

BUT - if we agree that the free market dictated that decision, and if we agree that the Mustang "won" the pony car war, doesn't that mean that,without any meaningful market competition, the Mustang will hurt too? If you accept market theory, Mustangs and Cambirds have been in competition with one another - each driving the other to greater horsepower, handling, styling, etc. Market theory says that, once a corporation gains a monopoly - in this case, the pony car market monopoly - the corporation loses incentive to compete and the product suffers.

In other words, without GM's pony car with which to compete, shouldn't we expect Ford to weaken or water down its pony car?

Just think. All this because we were all too cheap to buy f-bodies new.

 

Good point Bird67, hell look what Ford did when they changed the Mustang into the Mustang II (while GM retained some semblance of performance with the Firbird and the reintroduction of the Z28 in late 1977).

Also, I find it interesting that Chrysler is reevaluating the Pony Car and considering resurrecting the Cuda (or Cuda like replacement).

Lastly, it was the 3rd Gen F-body that kept Ford from making the Probe the Mustang's replacement (which they decided against at the last minute, and introduced the Probe as a seperate model line).

My raw gut is the GM will reintroduce the F-body as a FWD, multi-valve V6. I sincerely hope that if they do, that it is a resounding FLOP and some GM executives and bean-counters end up in the Unemployment Office. Unfortunately, GM has been successful (so far) in reintroducing the Monte Carlo and Impala as FWD vehicles and will do it again.

One article I read about the GN was the GM never wanted to kill it. It was only because GM no longer had a platform for it that the GN died its untimely death. Sales were constantly increasing and the GN was very popular at the end of its production. GM had already made the decision to move away from a RWD platform and the GN was no more, sad to say. Had GM retained the GN, I probably would have bought that instead of my GTA in 1991.

 

I agree, GM priced themselves right out of the market. I cant speak for Chevrolet, but for Pontiac there logo is "Built for Drivers"; other than the GTP the only thing that they are advertising is that Aztec piece of crap. They should change there motto to "Built for Campers" because now that the Trans Am is gone there isnt much left.



------------------
1986 Black & Gold WS6
Trans AM...The Muscle Car Lives
...Its just not at home at the moment...

www.members.home.net/nosaint

 

Three words: Sport Utility Vehicles.

GM is a business. They sell what will make them money. SUV's make money, F-bodies do not. It is very rare that an automaker makes an affordable performance car for image anymore. The Viper, Vette, and Mustang Cobras are the image makers. The F-body is being squeeze out. GM has their image car - the Vette.

 

Good points, all.

I'm sticking to my plan - waiting five or so years, then buying a WS6 Trans Am convertible for less than half of the original sticker. Then I'll have a first gen, third gen and fourth gen convertible. Then I'll be satisfied. Yeah right.

 

Yeah, like mentioned before, the GN sales got better and better every year, but '87 had to be the last, because in '88, the Regal went FWD, and GM didn't make a Transaxle that could withstand the output of the Turbo 3.8. The 3T40 and 4T60 sure coudn't do it, and the 4T65-E of today can't either, but now that GM has built the 4T80-E wich has proven succesfull behind the Olds Auora, and Caddy's Northstar 300+ HP, I think a FWD 5th Gen is very possible (although retarded).

Not to mention dwindiling sales. Trans Ams are sitting on the lot and St. Therese workers are told to stay home for the day (while still getting paid) untill more cars sell, meanwhile, our dealership can't keep the Yukon XL Denali's and Sierra C3 in stock because people are standing in the showroom paying for them before they even get off the carrier! So why would they waste the money, manpower, and facility on a "novelty"? I love the F-body, but there is no sense in crying over spilt milk.

------------------
If you live in Southeastern US, check us out!
South East Thirdgen


ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA

'87 Trans Am
S/D TPI retrofit including functional PassKey, 22# injectors,
JET AFPR, Ported Plenum,
TB Coolant Bypass, Custom Cold Air,
SSM SFC, KYB Shocks, Boxed LCAs, Wonder Bar,
8mm Accel wires,
Flowmaster Exhaust,
16" GTA rims,
Corvette Servo,
-->14.97 @ 94.9 MPH<--

'97 Bonneville SSE

 

I hate to admit this but a SUV is also in my future and will be come my next daily-driver (with my GTA being relegated to Sunday/Toy status like it deserves). A new 4th Gen (or 5th Gen) just doesn't factor into my family now; an SUV (for the wife) and a beater truck (for me) does.

But, look at the bright side, cancellation of the F-body will just make these cars more desireable. They will represent and end of an era; but the spirit will remain alive.

 

I think that GM will take a year off from the f-body , and kill off the camaro completly , but Pontiac will introduce a new version firebird. I dont think (hope) GM will be dumb enough to give ford the market. All u guys know that OLDSMOBILE is gone right? The division will be scraped . There is alot of things going on at GM but I hope there will be some good to comeout

 

I think GM is dumb enough to let ford have the whole muscle car market. look what happen to all the big RWD cars Impala and Caprice and with the Impala SS being a hot seller they still axed it. GM is slow to respond too cautious and not daring. Chrysler is not they took a chance on a car called the Viper and look what happened. yes GM priced the F body out of the market. they have turned names sunonmous with power and handling into luxury with power and handling. which is fine unless you tell them they have to pay for the luxury they dont want in order to get the power. i am talking about not being able to buy a stripped down TA or Z and no the Formula doesnt count it doesnt look like a TA it looks like a six cylinder. GM may kill the F body but i will still buy a fourth gen when i can afford it and i will never drive a mustang or a FWD F body period. I just really hope that its a big hoax and they really do have big plans for the f body and keep it traditional fast bruttaly powerful and RWD. TINFY

 

yeah, i think it's safe to say now that the F-body is probably going down the drain. They are priced way to high, and are competing with the vette. The only way that sales will increase would be to price them around that of a Mustang, but keep the performance edge. Heck, i'd imagine that a modern day 305 would be able to still outproduce hp wise a 281 stang. But hey, i'd rather see the f-body die, than to see if come back as a front wheel drive car, that doesn't live up to it's name.

 

I hope the word camaro or firebird ever appear on a FWD car!!!! If Gm isn't seling enough why don't they put a cap on the amount of cars they sell a year like the corvette(25,000) or like Ford is doing with lightning(5,000). I am saving all my money so I can be an original owner of 35th anniversary SS. I just hope that the names don't get disgraced.

------------------
LONG LIVE THE MUSCLE CAR!!!!! MAY ITS REIGN NEVER END

1983Z28 350w/ edelbrock performer RPM power package with 64cc aluminum heads, flowtech shorty headers, 700R-4 with shift kit, 750cfm carb, edelbrock 3" exhaust system.

future mods:
completely done over suspension, black paint with flames, B&M shifter, intellitronix digital gauge package, 16" IROC rims,ASCD SShood, procharger supercharger.

 

WEll, I know I am a young pup to the Camaro fans. But I think the Camaro will come back, leave like the Thunderbird, whats it been 3-4 years since the demise of the Thunderbird. Why not take a few years off on the Camaro and Firebird. By 2005-2006 the Dodge Charger will be back on the streets as well a newly designed Mustang, so maybe GM has plans to throw a wrench into the competition by buildin an all new F-Body car.

Thats my $.02

------------------
[b]My site http://www.camaro3rdgen.20m.com

 

First let me agree with others and say that it is indeed a rational business decision to kill the F-bodys, given current demands.

There are a couple of facts to think about when thinking about the f-body.

The F-body "classic", RWD, live axle, V8 motor, low chassis, uni-body design, is through. Hard to swallow, but true. Most educated forecasts see FWD, independant suspension, maybe a V8 but probably a V6. It will definitely be multi-valve 30+ MPG motor. and it will probably be built on a cross market platform. As in available to Buick, Pontiac, Chevy, etc.

I say all of that to say that even if the F-body did come back we wouldnt recognize it. To me the F-body platform means Firebird/Camaro. It was an "exclusive" thing if you will. Who would want to buy a car, billed as a muscle car, that has the same makeup as say a Buick Whatever? I wouldnt.

Thats not to say it wont be fast. lve heard nothing but praise about the Chevy Impala from the hiway patrol. As you may or not know, the SCHP is testing one out as a possible replacment for the Vic. So the replacements for our F-body will be fast, and probably have cup holders. Comfortable, yes.
True to the ponycar style, not a chance.

So, despite whatever caries the badging Firebird or Camaro, I plan on saying goodbye to the line at the end of the 4th gens.

 

not to start a flame war, but why do all the Firebird/TA owners think that the Camaro name will be the one that goes away and that Pontiac will carry the muscle? Everyone keeps complaining that the price of an F-body is too high, yet the Pontiac costs more. Also, most comparisons to the Mustang have been with the Camaro, not the Firebird. To keep things on an even playing field, Ford cars are FoMoCo's entry line cars. Chevrolet is GM's entry line of cars. People wouldn't think new comparisons are on equal terms. This is my opinion as a Camaro owner, so it may also be biased. I don't know if I have ever seen a comparison of a Firebird to the Mustang without it being mentioned as the sister to the Camaro!!

------------------
87 IROC 350 TPI with less than 10k original miles
www.users.uswest.net/~smoyer/iroc.htm

 

scott i personally preferre the TA but i can not explain why people think that. as a matter of fact i think the firebird will not come back. but dont forget Pontiac kept the muscle once before. the mid to late 70's thats when the 455SD was availible and the 455 stayed in the firebird until 76 with the 400 and 403 finally going out in 79. camaro didnt have anything bigger than a 350 from like the mid 70s on. the TAs were the rullers of the street in the late seventies. even corvette had problems out performing a TA. so that could be why people think that but i dont i think the camaro will return and GM will ax the firebird basically because of the chevy vs ford battle and because more poeple by camaros. also it has been mentioned before but GM has too many sisters cars that are too similar where as ford has one pony car(mustang) and one pocket rocket(ZX2). and yes chevy is GMs main name plate. so that my theory and reasoning.

Hey El Guapo i have heard the same praise about the impalla but what is South Carolina going to do to replace all those pewter unmarked Z28s they are using. no way can an Impalla out run those things.TINFY

 

As far as whether they will keep the bird or the camaro, l thought the census was that the bird was a goner, and that the camaro was the one that had a chance of a "comeback". That would be most logical to me, buy l could have missed something.

TINFY, l dunno about the Camaros. Ford just brought out a new Vic so maybe they might do an about face and replace the Camaros w/ impalas and Vics with new Vics. Not sure.

What do they drive down there? Anything beside Caprices?

Clayton

 

GM is in the business to make money, not cars.

The current 4th gen platform is pretty profitable because the tooling was paid for a few years ago and the motor shares with the Corvette and other GM models for the V6. The DO make money one each one they sell. The amount that are sold are not enough to satisfy GM shareholders and executives.

The profit margin in a Cadillac Escalade is pretty fat. Same with a Lincoln Navigator. You really think some fake wood trim and leather seats really cost an extra $10,000? That is why GM wants to focus on the flavor of the month because they follow instead of leading the industry.

Let's face it: The F-body in it's current form is terribly inefficient. The cabin layout is very poor use of space, the build quality-althought worlds better than the 3rd gen- still sucks,realiability is terrible and they sticker for too much money for their target market. Performance,though, has never been better and that is what most buyers want in a car like this. Not enough new car buyers really car about quarter mile times anymore. They want space,size and gadgets.

The Mustang was here first and will be here last. They have stuck with almost the same formula since day one. When Coca-Cola changed their recipe, the world rejected it. Look at Ford, they have stuck with the same recipe for the Mustang and builds them cheaper and more profitable.

GM will say "If dealers can get 100,000 non-refundable deposits for a 5th gen f-body for 2003", watch how fast the whip one up. This will not happen because a big majority of the ones fighting for the f-body to survive won't put their money where their mouth is.

R.I.P: F-Body

 

Very well said, Formula8!!. Especially the latter part about not being willing to put money where our hearts are. I am guilty as charged. I would not pay $32,000 for a new T/A. If I needed another car now, I'd take $12,000 and buy a used f-body and put the other $20,000 to work.

I intend to wait 'til I can buy a nice WS6 convertible for low teens. Probably won't be more than a few years - the early 4th gen's are getting there already. This, in a nutshell, is GM's problem.

 

El Guapo depends on what part of the state but mainly crown vics and impalas. i am sure they have some Z28s. but the coolest part is there is a county in south georgia on 95 that gets a lot of drug runners so the sherrifs department bought a bunch of 94-96 Impalla SSs with i am guessing all the drugs and money they have confiscated. i am not sure on the county but every time i watch the police chase show on fox they seem to be in it with their Impallas chasing someone down. TINFY

 

i dont know about you guys, but i sure as hell want to buy a new f-body!
there is something about being the original owner of a car that i like the sound of.
i WAS going to buy order a brand spankin new one in 2004 when i graduate from college! i hope i dont have to settle for somthing else



o well, worst possible case is they can the f bod for ever and i still have my third gen... im never gona sell it!

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89' Firebird Formula WS6 L98, MSD 6AL MSD Blaster, Hypertech chip, K/N filter cone,flowmaster 80 series, hypertech air foil, koni shocks, edelbrock trailing arms

 

I am definiatly a die hard F-Body fan. I love my 85 firebird, and will never sell it. I would have to say GM will be making a huge mistake if they get rid of it. (may not realizie it yet but wil later) An even bigger one if they bring it back as a FWD. I can't stand FWD and will never ever own a FWD car. As much as I would hate to do this but I think out of spite sake, if GM brought back the F-Body as a FWD, I think I would go out and buy a RWD Mustang and go smoke a few of them. Don't get me wrong I am a mustang hater but it would be my way of getting back at GM!!

 

I think Gm is in for a rude awakening.With the economy in a dowturn and fuel prices remaining high, I believe the demand for sport utes will wain in the near future. With Ford poised to release its new Thuderbird and Chrysler soon to bring back the Charger(With a Hemi V8?), I hope the demand for perfomance coupes/sedans comes back. The Automotive consumer is fickle and changes their mind quickly as to what is hot and what is not. It might be viable for Gm to keep the F body going in its current form beyond 2002, just re negotiate with suppliers and the UAW for a lower output of these vehicles and keep the changes to a minimum. Then maybe the bean counters would see the light.But I guess I'm dreaming. I think that if they cancel the F body, the 96- 2002 cars stand a good chance of keeping relatively high resale value, becuase they were the last of their kind,well the 98 and up cars with the LS1 should anyway.Maybe with a little luck the people who roll their sports utes over will decide that they arn't all that they are cracked up to be and we will finally see the demand for these leviathons drop off. Maybe then the F body will have a chance...........

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1990 Iroc convertible,305 tpi,Black with black leather interior,lowered

 

suvs killing off the f body is one more reason they should be banned from production,
blinding headlights, too much emissions, and accident fatalities are the other reasons. oh yeah and they are just right for the guy who is in denial that he needs a vinivan. because 90% of them are used as just that-glorified-less cargospace than minivan-non off road-less safe- grocery getters.
all the features like a roof rack and off road suspension etc that attreact buyers dont even get used, when was the last time you saw that lexus suv with the chrome 22 inch rims flying through a trail? suv are for the great majority a fad, and hopefully it will be over soon.

 

Since SUVs and Trucks now fall under stricter EPA guidelines their profit margin will be reduced great (both were previously listed as off-road vehicles and thus only had to meet very minimum requirements).

You can't limit production or kill one and not the other. The less of a car you make the less the profit margin because of overhead. Even if the tools are paid for they still need matience and labor and the car still needs to turn profit relative to the tool investment. IMHO I think these cars are reasonably price. Base Vette's are 10k more than a loaded T/A and I bet insurance would be twice as much.

Its unfortunante but the more I think about it, the F-body was destin to failure.

(Most mentioned before)
1. They target the late teens, early 20's people. The people who are either working minimum wage full time or going to college and working minimum wage half of the time. The car market for those in 'poverty' is not a car that is 3x something like a new Cavalier.

2. Once you get past that group, you get into the group that is starting a family. They are not very child friendly nor a needed expense for a growing family. 30k for a summer car is a lot.

3. Now you get into the older people. These are the ones that can most afford them. However, the low ride, seats, and cabin space is not very fitting of older people. My boss bought a 94Z in 1994 new, he is 54 now. The car has 6k on it because he can't stand to ride in it because the seats hurt his back. My dad also complains about this when in my car.

Advertising is what sells. If you don't know the product exists or what it does then you can't expect to sell it. I see a Sierra commerical once every 30 minutes. Plus, the american public is gullable show them a product and they'll have some desire for it. People know the Camaro, Firebird, and T/A name tags well. If you make them think about it (via commericial) more often they are more likely to go buy it. This is a classic case of GM doing everything backwards. They'll wait until a car sells to air a commercial.

I also believe the car will come back but probably with a base multi-valve V6 FWD and a V8 option.

Who knows, maybe in 5 yrs. the F-body will be back or the name will be back on a new RWD platform. The pony cars have been fading for awhile now and just like small engines faded in the 60's they made a comeback for today. Most things that sit on what's popular has a way of circling around.


------------------
1984 WS6 Trans Am Hartop
Former L69 Car under restoration
1984 Trans Am T-tops
4-bolt main 350, performer intake, headers, Holley 650, T-5, hayes clutch, dual elec. fans and 3.23's.
Daily driver and restoration
13.98 @ 101

 

<snip> "3. Now you get into the older people. These are the ones that can most afford them. However, the low ride, seats, and cabin space is not very fitting of older people. My boss bought a 94Z in 1994 new, he is 54 now. The car has 6k on it because he can't stand to ride in it because the seats hurt his back. My dad also complains about this when in my car."

Sad to say, this is absolutely true. I just hit my 4th decade on this earth. I have reached a point in life where I can afford the cars I lusted after while starving to put myself through school.

Yes I am still more than young and limber enough to shoehorn myself into my 67 and 92 Firebirds, but I know that my older friends roll their eyes at the fact that I even LIKE these cars, let alone OWN one and DRIVE them (the 92 anyway) on a regular basis.

And of course, there's the fact that even though I can afford to buy a new f-body if I want to, I choose not to because I know I can get a great one used and enjoy it just as much. On my value scale, $35,000 is too much to pay for these cars.

So this is a problem for GM in trying to make an honest profit from these cars. Those that want 'em can't yet afford 'em, and those that can afford 'em are either no longer interested in them or, like me, choose not to pay full price for them.

 

uh once again yall have your heads up your @$$'s. haven't you noticed how all the imports are getting 50 some odd mpg? connect that with why they sale. also look into the prices for the cars and the insurance. the camaros and mustangs and vettes and firebirds, and all other performance cars for that matter are too expensive for people to afford. my insurance is $1000 every six months, IN THREE TO FOUR YEARS THE INSURANCE IS GOING SURPASS THE VALUE OF THE CAR, and it will no longer have be profitable for me to keep the car. plus you know why the SUV's and the minivans are so popular? because most people have family's and two 12 year olds in the back of sports car whining because they cant feel their legs cause they cant move. plus it's a PITA to get a kid in a child seat in the first place no matter what car your in, so having to bend and crawl into the back seat of a sports car is not pleasing to people with kids. the old geezers and family minded people of today dont care about looks or performance. they only care about gas milage, price and room for them to pile in their ****.since the old geezers and "normal people" out number us gear heads by a whole ****ing lot that IS why GM has stopped making the camaro. we just need to get over it and blow the doors off of your friends with minivans.

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

 

oh yeah one more thing, i'd appreciate the ones out there who cant handle the truth, to stay off my *** . pleease and thank you

------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

 

Well, I blame both GM (Pontiac as well) and the dealers!
Why are there no ads either on TV or the magazines? By this, I mean stop using the same ad they've been using for about 4 years now. They just change the year!
I go to the local dealers in my area, and what do I find? The dealers are out of brouchures! No Firebirds/Trans Ams on the lot! Never see a Ram Air! You have to order one! Oh, I'm sorry, you have to buy it first, just to test drive one! Same thing with the Firehawk! This is with over three dealerships here in my area!
Now, go to Las Vegas, and visit Courtesy Pontiac, and they've got (had) 14 Ram Airs, and over 27 Trans Ams and Firebirds! Why? Because the are the number 1 dealer in the nation! These cars are allocated to the dealers! Don't sell many the year before, don't get many this year!! Look at the 30th Anniversary Trans Am! Dealers could have sold more! Yet, some dealers couldn't get any!
Back to the Las Vegas dealer. They mark up their cars by 4 grand! Boy, that just put alot of Trans Ams out of some people's price range!
Talking to Pontiac reps, I get the same information. The car that brings in the most money for Pontiac, is the Ram Air! They make the most profit on that car! Yet, why don't they make all of them the Ram Air? I never get an answer!
I read the new GM High Tech Performance Magazine on the whys of the demise. Most of the Editors state about the hump in the passenger floor! What???? I buy the car for me, not my passenger! Have you tried to get into a Vette lately? It's more difficult that a F-Body. So why aren't sales dropping for that car? Get real!!!
I also talked to a Pontiac Firebird Marketing guy at the last SEMA show about the end of the F-Body. The young punk didn't even drive a F-Body or own one! Probably drove a Jap car!!!! He sure didn't want to hear about anything I had to say! He walked away!! Boy, this sounds like they got the right guy for the job!!!!

I could go on,

George

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1970 Trans Am Ram Air III
1974 Trans Am 455
1979 Trans Am convertible 403
1981 Trans Am 301 Turbo (heavy modified)
1989 20th Anniv. Turbo Trans Am #231

 

case in point....
I am 18, I am a Camaro enthusiast and I have a '88 v6. It is dog-slow and I'd love a newer one.
My sister is 23 and is a Camaro enthusiast she has owned a '79, a '81, and a '85. She could afford a used one up to maybe '98 or '99. She drives a '95 Blazer, because she has a kid.
My Father is gonna be 54 on sunday, he is a Camaro enthusiast, he has owned a '69 (new), a 73 (new)and he's always been a 'maro guy. He currently drives a '00 Silverado, he likes the 4-wheel drive, and the power (he goes 5-10 under all the time now.) He is a former dragracer (one of the best in the early 70's. Most people who were into drag racing then remember Johnny Briones' LeMans Blue '69 SS named "Hells Reject" kicking butt @ Great Lakes Dragway in Milwaukee. His best was a 13.1 in '71. Funny thing is a bought a non-running '86 IROC in May, and pulled the motor to rebuild it, and actually has done nothing to it AT ALL. One day (when I'm more responsible) it will be mine, but for now it's a eyesore to me. It's a nice iroc, I just have a sport coupe w/ a v6.
My Mother is a camaro enthusiast, she co-owned the '73 had a '77, and a '86 sport coupe. She is 45, and drives a '96 monte carlo z/34. It's plenty quick, but she drives alot, and that's the ONLY reason she wouldn't buy a Camaro new now, because she drives alot. She's looking into a new car, and is looking at maybe a truck, dad says she should get a grand prix GTP, but she says she "feels" too old for a sports car like a 'maro or a GTP (a sports car to me) The fact is, we are all Camaro people (hardcore) dad is too old for one (will baby it), ma "feels" too old for one, sis is still paying off the blazer, and I am too poor for one right now. However I am thinking about a '91 or '92 convertible. Fourth gen is too expensive yet. So our history is

'69 ss 396
'73 maro 350
'77 maro 305
'78 maro 350
'81 maro 305
'85 maro v6
'86 maro v6
'86 iroc 305tpi
'88 maro v6

sounds like I am the only one who will ever add to the f-body list. my sis might in 5-10 years, but the maro prolly won't be around anymore. ok I am done ramblin'


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• 1988 Camaro Sport Coupe
• 2.8 V6
• TCI 3200 Stall TC
• B&M Transkit
• 2.5" 80 Series Flowmaster & Catback
• Hi-Flo Kitty
• '83 Z/28 Hood
• '87 IROC Wheels
• '92 Z/28 Bowtie Grille
• IROC Gauges
• IROC Taillights
• IROC Foglamps

 

oh yeah taking my parents ages 54 and 45, all the maros they bought were new, and the last new one was a '86 sport coupe, and that made my mom 31 then.
my dad was 22 when he got the '69
mom was 18 and dad was 26 when they got the '73
was was 22 and dad was 30 when they got the '77
mom was 31 and dad was 39 when they got the '86. looks like after they got the '86 they weren't in the demographics for the age of a camaro owner.

 

My dad has 25yrs at GM and he says they'll quit makin a car if they don't have the dies ready rather than continue an old design. Another thing is that the agreement at the plant where f-bods are made is running out. There probly gonna move the assembly plant. I'm sure they'll bring the fbody back.

 

Looking on the bright side; I already have my F-body.

Incidentally, I find it much easier to put my son into the child seat mounted in my Firebird, than in the back of my wife's Camry. Push the seat forward, sit on the kick plate and plop him in.

Regarding geezers not wanting F-bodies:
My Granddad was 72 when he bought his 87 Formula. He traded a Cadillac for it and LOVED it. He drove that car for the rest of his life, and then it passed to my aunt. It was recently destroyed when my punk 14 year old cousin introduced it to a light pole. She bought a 2000 'bird to replace it. Way to go auntie.

 

F-body go away in 2002
SSR Come out in 2002/2003
SSR go away in 2005/2006
F-body come back 2005/2006

they want the plant for the SSR, in the mean time the SUV trend will die, GM will have a whole new F-body ready to go. The End

 

And P.S., you want to kick mustang tail after 2002 with a new ride? go buy an SSR. 330HP next generation LS1. Rear wheel drive, plus its got a hard drop top.

 

how bout the "next generation" LS6 with 385 :P hehehehe

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1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

 

GM has had my business for many years. I bought 1981 vette, 1984 fiero, 1986 fiero GT, 1986 Corvette,two 1987 Grand-Nationals, a 1991 vette, and a 1993 vette, Iv'e had as many a 4 cars at one time. I've also had other cars such as 1993 lexus, 1995 ford cougar, 1997 ford explorer sport, 1997 ford limited, 1992 ford 150 pickup, 1995 twin turbo dodge stealth.

Looking at this list makes me sick... I now realize that I wasted alot of money on cars.

I curently drive 1989 turbo transam that I paid cash for and dependable and cheap to maintain This is my toy I don't need this car(but like it).

I have an 1998 E.B expedition that my wife and 3 kids use as daily transportation

I also have a 2000 f150 extended cab pickup I use in construction that can seat 6 people. Since I have a Business and a personal car I write the lease off.

I guess what a want to say is this.. If GM cancels the F-body who cares? You'll find another toy to spend your money on.

For you younger single guys out there... when you get married and have kids you'll be buying up those big SUV's Just like us SUV guys are doing now.

Just as the gray hairs set in all of a sudden you'll be at your peak earning capacity (if you picked a carreer) And it will be time to get some nice ride BUT WAIT that f-body only seats 4, what if you have to sport clients around? I just know You'll buy one of those BMW's jags, MB, or lexus Why? cause you can

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3.8 turbo 20th anniversary transam #497 first owed by Clifford Williams, Bass player from rock band AC/DC

 

does anyone know when the last year is that we'll see a new camaro?