Xceleratemaro

i feel like i lost some brain cells by watching this... :shrug:

man they suck ***....

derrrr i cant intall a oil filter...

B4Ctom1

now they are lying for them about the oil leak

safemode

iTrader: (1)

No matter how stupid they are or stupid the show is, the winner of this race is going to get two Sweet looking third gens. for nothing.


I wish i could work at a jiffy lube so i can get picked to go on a show and win cars I would never be able to afford and do almost nothing but bolt on parts.

it's crazy how they can supercharge the car without any ECU tuning.

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

Disapointing for sure...
Three mods....
Supercharger, radiator ("Tuners" couldnt even get that to fit, LOL), and cat-back? WTF? LOL oh, and the ignition. Ppfht.
Was excited when i saw that they were using the Mac cat-back, was hoping to hear what it would sound like......didnt sound all that great IMO, but then again you couldnt really hear it. Oh well

mgomez

The reason they didn't need cpu tuning is beacuse they were using MAF. Since the MAF measured the actual air coming in, it was able to compensate. I would bet MAP would be more difficult but I'm not sure. I would think they would at least need an aftermarket MAF though

safemode

iTrader: (1)

since most stock maf's rarely measure over 1atm of pressure, i'd think they would definitely need an aftermarket maf. (Expensive too).

mgomez

I really think there was alot of "behind the scenes" stuff that helped those cars along. I did notice there was alot of involved. Maybe the show will help show some of those import losers that these cars are still on to

scottmoyer

did anybody else catch dork #1 say that he was feeling a breeze by hand turning the supercharger? He said I can almost imagine how much air they'll flow at 7000 RPM. What import will he install it in to get 7k rpm, since we all know the IROC-Z is dead at 4400

mgomez

still on top

1984z28irocz

so uh who bought the episode? and btw i thought that was a sweet show. i thought the cars looked a little sluggish down the track but it was sweet. and come on who didnt like the 2000 hp 7.6 second camaro?!?!?!?!

mgomez

now, now he's a MASTER machanic remember!!!!!!


LOL

scottmoyer

Also, it was nice to see them dyno the car at 206hp before the mods and 322hp after. They also showed a decent time of 13.2. I think the import scene will be more afraid of the IROC-Z than they would be of the Grand National. Mr. Import Jiffy Lube even commented that he will keep the car now that he has seen first hand what American Muscle is all about and will show it to his import friends.

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

I really wished the other team would have won... Oh well...

mgomez

Even though I dodn't think it was incredibly accurate, it was close enough to spark people's curiousity and was nice to watch compared to other show's I've seen

mgomez

wasn't incredibly accurate. I really need to double check spelling

safemode

iTrader: (1)

for 4100 bucks (the cost of the supercharger) I think they could have beat those 13 second times. Definitely not shabby considering all they did was bolt on a supercharger, they probably could have opened it up a lot more with a lot of minor mods like intake manifold + cam. Cheap additional things that might have brought that time close to the 12s. I dont think i'd drop 4100 bucks for going from 200hp to 300 though.

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

yeah, the 7,000 RPM comment made me go "Whaa???"
But i figured "maybe theyre doing something with the intake?", but guess i was wrong....
ah well
saw some NICE vids of IROC's :-P

Gr89RS

iTrader: (5)

Anyone notice how the red team didnt even install the hood right??it had a huge gap between the front clip and the hood!!

safemode

iTrader: (1)

That's what happens when you have to install a new fuel pump, msd ignition system, exhaust system, supercharger (includes new computer chip and injectors) and not to mention, a new radiator in 2 days on a car using a fuel delivery system you have no experience with.

Guest

The MAF setup does just fine with Vortech's included band-aids that they didnt show being installed. There is of course room for improvement.

IROCThe5.7L

Yea, same here. The team with the red IROC-Z just should have left it in D

nick418

it was okay... Both of those IROCs were really clean, and i was happy they did L98s. The history was good, i wish they modded more.. Also it seemed like they didnt kno what they were doing. 13.2 aint that bad... They coulda hit high 12s.. It was amazin that the 88 Iroc had 207 rwhp stock

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

The history was cool the tech was lame. Why do they pick people like that? "I like the sport compact scene because that is where the technology is". Apparently Ferrari, Benz, BMW, Lambo, GM, and SVT are using 4 bangers in their super cars now. Idiots. The guy didn't even know how to drive the car at the track and admitted that he didn't know how to shift. There must have been a lot of behind the scene work. But then again, they had to use flashy mods because thats what keeps people watching. A heads, cammed and dyno tuned stealth ram set-up wouldn't keep people watching. A Super charger appeals to all car enthusiests. Even if they suck at knowing anythign about cars. Even a mild wrencher would fare okay on another car that they are not famiar with. Well I geuss that is why they work at Jiffy lube and not a speed shop. TV can be so cruel to us and our cars.

okfoz

I really feel as tho the show covered not enough about the camaro, and too much about the IROC racing series. They had at least 2 Min of total footage of the NOT STOCK IROC cars going around in circles, that I could have seen better use of time. I really could have seen more about the 3rd Gen, and less about the Mustang too. I did not mind the glimpse of the Firebird, but they had more mustang footage than the Firebird. They did state that if you were to talk to any car guy about the IROC they would assume that you were talking about the 85-90 Camaro. BUt I was a little disapointed in the end.

I noticed that the White car at least had the correct badge for being a 350 car on the back bumper. I never got a good enough look at the red car to actually attempt to determine if they in fact were both 350 cars. My bet would be that the Red car with T-tops was in fact a 305 Car, since the T-top 350 cars are so unusual.

John

MrDude_1

its a THIRDGEN. one of the few cars a jiffy lube worker could afford. lol.
not to put us down or anything, but they're cheap cars. dont get ahead of yourself just because you own one.. that would make you just as bad as the honda owners who think theres is the best, just because they own one.

its easy. use a FMU. no programming. it jacks the fuelpressure up with the boost.

no. the kit uses a FMU... the MAF has NOTHING to do with it.

MAF sensors are MASS AIR FLOW sensors. they messure the MASS (aka amount) of air flowing past them.
MAP sensors are Manifold Absolute Pressure sensors. they measure the pressure seen in the manifold.
also, MAP sensors are cheap. (compared to MAF sensors atleast).

and they dont need either of them modified, or new programming.....since its using a FMU.


know how we know alot of stuff about thirdgens? well listening to the guys on the history channel, we think they sound like morons, right?
really ANYONE talking about stuff over their head, sounds like a moron to someone that knows the stuff already. i just quoted you two and replied to point that out to everyone. being on a show like that isnt easy... imagine if you were put on a honda show. you would just be reading whatever they wrote for you... and probly come off as stupid to anyone into it.

im not positive, but didnt that "catback" include a Y pipe? i couldnt tell..

i donno about a vortec blower, but if you put your hand over the inlet of my eaton M112 and spin it with your other hand, you feel alot of air moving. you do feel a suction/breeze..


me too

safemode

iTrader: (1)

Not that unusual. There are definitely real world examples of T-top 350 87 IROC-Z's regardless of what the retards on the history channel forum say. You know, when you get on a forum that is too hell bent on simply hating on something, you get a lot of people who seem like they know what they're talking about, but are way too quick to be anti-whatever to think about what they're saying. That history channel forum is chalk full of people saying the t-top iroc-z couldn't have been a 350 because "everybody knows t-top and convertibles were 305's"

Well, just to stick their faces in it, here is a factory build sheet of a guy who has a red t-top 87 IROC-Z with an L98 engine. Yes, a 350 *shock*. I'm not saying the show didn't know the difference between a visibly identical 305 and 350 because they were too stupid to look at the rpo's but I'm saying that it is indeed possible that they had the same engines and nearly the same options.

http://www.users.qwest.net/~smoyer/i...buildsheet.jpg


Edit.
And my comment on the MAF possibly needing to be changed had to do with the fact that cold air induction requires a MAF change due to the air simply being too far out of the calibration the maf was set at, I thought the supercharger would be similarly outside of the stock maf's calibration.

MrDude_1

umm, no. and that also sounds insanely stupid.

you mean because the air is a few degrees colder then the air in the engine bay, you need to "recalibrate" your maf?


umm, dude. it measures the air mass coming in. and it works in the full GM temp range, from artic cold to desert heat. humid to dry.

and if you did move the maf, say far from the motor with a long inlet, at worse you would have to redo some of the tables in the ECM... still dont need a diffrent maf.



edit:
remember what i said about talking over your head? bad thing to do.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

ON A MORE POSITIVE NOTE:

Actually I was pretty impressed by the show.

I thought the times (at lowest 13.29 @ 105ish) was pretty damn respectable... For people having zero experience behind the wheel yet. With a little tuning, watch out!

I also thought it was great how they portrayed the IROC-Z cars. They portrayed them as being the baddest American muscle car on the road for the era, which was cool and to top it all off, they were actually pretty correct with a lot of the 3rd Gen info.

All in all, did we really expect 13 second cars? NO. After seeing them pull 14's with a beefed up GN, I figured we were all in for "16's city", but I was pleasantly surprised at the times they did pull.

Pretty good show, as good and as well-promoted an out-of-production 17 year old car could be.

History Channel

[edit]PLUS: At the end of the show, the kids (which were supposed tuner car advocates) said after driving the IROC-Z they were impressed and were probably going to keep them... How's that for irony? I wonder if we'll hear from them on TGO.

MrDude_1

i kinda wondered that too.

then i wondered if it was theRCkid and McDammit....

then i stopped caring.





lol, j/k


if they did keep them, they should be here already, that show tapes way in advance.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

True, but many times they don't legally allow contestants to reveal the show's results.

pheonixofdoom

even the history wasnt totally accurate...and yes...lame time slips. when they talked about the first gens, they compared the Z28 to the Firebird *the T/A would have been a better comparason* and they claimed the Pontiac 400 w/ 335 horsepower was it's top engine option. That would refer to the Ram Air III, or code L74 on the 69 option sheet, where in actuality the top engine option was the L67 Ram Air IV rated laughably at 345.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

I wonder why they didnt dyno the red car after the mods?

I think it dynoed at 196 at the rear at the beginning of the show.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

The car would've had a S/C BBC and pulled the front tires 2' off the ground... teeheheheheheh

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

That was 1 hour of my life I'll never get back LOL
It wasn't real bad they just seem to gloss over to much stuff

I had a 305 with a ZZ2 cam stock trans slp headers and a cat back running 13.70s @ 103 on street tires with a stock chip Y can't people check these cars over a little better...

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Let me ask you this;

How many shows are there out there featuring IROC-Zs? NONE if any at all...

So why are we bashing this episode? It showed our cars with inexperienced drivers still pulling 13's... Yes, with SCs, but look at the GN that they did. Bigger turbos and the works at only 14's.

Look a bit further up in this post and the other ones on Full Throttle. We were expecting 15s and 16s. I say getting 13's from these cars having never driven them but 3 runs on a track, thats pretty damn good.

Besides that, when was the last time you saw anything IROC-Z related on TV, aside from old movies that had them in the background? (well, I did see "IT" a few days ago and there's a red 1990 vert IROC in it, but thats beside the point).

I just don't understand why we are bashing this particular episode....The show kinda sucks, yes, but for what it did show of the IROCs I thought it was pretty good.

Oddball

One thing I noticed (because od DVR I got to see it today); the Red IROC did NOT have blacked out headlights. The white did. Was it an IROC clone or did it have a paint job? I assume all IROCS had the blacked out headlight pockets -- my 86 does.

There was also a 10 hp difference between the two cars before any mods. That should have sent up a red flag that the cars were not identical. I agree they should have dynod (and weighed) both cars after the mods.

As someone who has *never* raced a car and has not been to a track you should lay off them for not knowing how to drive. Most people don't race every time they can. Of course they aren;t seasoned racers and that is part of the appeal of the show: how well will they race a car they know little about with 16 hours of mod time without being an expert racer? Maybe with some practice and tuning the cars would be in the 12's or lower.

I personally hated that the tuners won but they got a real lesson that tuning involves more than plugging in your lap top.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

#1: The car was a repainted car; thats all.

#2: The 10hp diff should have been factored into the races and the red car should have been dynoed, but oh well. Maybe they found that after all the mods, the HP was near identical on both. We might just have not seen the dyno on the red one.

okfoz

I only remember seeng the Dyno on the White car, both times. They just made mention of the first dyno run on the red car. The first dyno, they were all shocked at the +200 HP at the rear wheels. Especially when they were under the assumption that the TPI was rated at the crank. I thought all cars in the late 70's to current were Drive Wheel HP.

Mr Dude, please don't call people stupid.

There is a whole write up in one of my service manuals on how MAF works, its pretty simple. As air travels across the a heated wire it cools, and the more air that goes across that wire in a set amount of time the more it cools, and the resistance changes. (the way the one I read about worked) You take the resistance from the MAF wire, and compare it to the Intake Manafold Temperature, and you can get the amount of air, through math.

As you pressurize air, it heats up, (thus why there are intercoolers), likewise if you depressurize something it cools, ( That is exactly how an A/C unit works, but thats a different story. ) As you pressurize and heat the air coming into the intake, the temperature in the intake rises. BUT I believe the MAF is before the Supercharger, so all it knows is there is ALOT of extra air passing over it, and calculating the tempurature from the intake air temp sensor the engine should run lean. The O2 sensor would throw a code... So to correct this you add a Fuel pressure boost to the system to up the amount of fuel being dumped into the system and the whole thing balances out, with a stock MAF no less.

Actually in theory if you were to put the MAF after the supercharger there should be no need for the extra fuel pressure. I think the GN uses a post turbo MAF.

As for the comment about the supercharger spinning 7000 RPM, Anyone should be able to look at the tach, and relize that the red-line for our cars is only 5500 RPM. BUT remember he was just talking about how there is a gear drive on the supercharger that would help spin it up faster. The Supercharger could be traveling at 7000 RPM pretty easily, especially considering gearing would be an easy way to get extra boost through the same system.


John

Guest

Ugh, not the drive wheel HP thing again.

FAQ:
Q: Are HP ratings at the wheels?
A: Never. On anything. SAE net is at the crank. Even on a BMW. Or GM. Or Toyota. Or anything else for that matter.

Cadillac

I enjoyed the show. Was a little annoyed by all the references to Mustangs. Oh well.

Good entertainment.

Mr Dude be nice! Represent those Charleston gentlemen!

MrDude_1

i never called anyone stupid... i just said that if you were in the same position as the shows hosts, you know, talking about some car you dont know anything about.. and if you were just reading cue cards, then you would probly come off as stupid... afterall, you dont know if what you're saying is wrong or not.

srdynamics1

iTrader: (10)

I think overall it was way positive for the Third Gen's image.

When is the last time you saw a CLEAN thirdgen on TV?
Let alone a 3rd gen without some lame stereotype behind the wheel.

Now reveal yourselves TV IROC owners!!!
We want details.


btw: I was insulted when the dude said he wasnt sure if he was gonna keep it. Was he gonna sell it and buy a "high tech" civic?

91rsowner4life

:hail: i loved the history footage we finaly get RESPECT on TV and in prime time. it was just cool to see third gens get a hole show

IROCThe5.7L

What if both didn't have the same rear, thats not fair

scottmoyer

John, good point on the 7000 rpm part. I took it that they were referring to the engine rpms. He was referencing the spin at the pulley though when he commented about his hand spinning it causing air flow, what would 7k rpm do!!! Based on that statement, I stand by my original comment that they were referncing the engine rpm and not the supercharger.

As others have already stated, the show wasn't too bad.
1. inexperienced drag racers
2. not familiar with the car
3. quick bolt ons without additional tuning
4. engines probably not properly tuned
etc, etc...

The history portion for the IROC-Z was fairly accurate. All in all, the 3rd gens were represented well with typical cars being modified and driven by typical people. A few comments made by the twins weren't 100% accurate, but overall, the show spoke very highly of the IROC-Z.

BTW, that's my buildsheet you're showing up there!!! 350s and TTops are very common from 87-89. No dispute there.

labrat

I guess I was right!

Overall a good show.

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Shouldn't the moderators at least have to pass a basic car knowledge test?!

Cadillac

Lord... I hope not. That would mean there is no hope for me.

AJT86

i think if you put some drivers with some track expeirience in there- you would have seen better times- i mean if you have to give them a crash corse on how to race- then its time to find some new drivers. they ran low 14s with the GNs- my GN ran low 14s bone stock with 91 octane gas in it. im running the stock turbo- using a front mount intercooler- wich they did run because they were hot air cars, 3 1/2" down pipe, 3" intercooler pipeing. quick spool bleeder valve, fuel system upgrades, 2400 stall, pro shifter, and a scanmaster for tuning- and im in the high 12s on ultra 94 octane- problably spending half what they spent on their mods. they use what the sponsers tell them to use- the pick blue collar joe shmoe down the street to make it interesting to watch- i was dissappointed about the IROC history- they did a great job on the GN history, well thats just my 2 cents

Aron9000

I saw the show and kept thinking of ways to make it better. The history portion was good(could have done with less Mustang footage though) and shouldn't be changed.

The times they got out of the IROC were pretty good when all the factors discussed earlier are considered.

Now ways to make the show better:

1. Fire the Turbo twins and get Dean Skuzza and Cameron Evans. It doesn't have to be those two, but race car drivers or mechanics would make excellent hosts.

2. Don't hire the first four clowns you get off the street. At least hire people with higher skill levels than being the lube guy at Jiffy Lube. A great way to get contestents for the show would be to surf the message boards(like Thirdgen.org) and pick members who are very knowelgable, have a good rap with the board, and have built their own cars.

3. Maybe give the guys three or four days to turn the wrenches on the cars. If you are using experienced guys, they could so some serious mods with that much time on their hands(heads, cam, intake, headers, nitrous, custom chips, swap a rear end, etc.) Also make sure that the cars they are modding are in top mechanical shape and will be able to handle the additonal power without frying rear ends, trannys, throwing rods, main bearings, etc.

4. Force all contestents to familarize themselves with drag racing by practicing before the show. This won't be an issue if they put experienced people on the show.

5. The most important point: Give both teams 10 or 15 trial runs down the strip. Let each team decide who will drive(if they are smart, the same guy will drive). This will hopefully allow them to become familair with the cars and work out any bugs. Then give them 1 race to decide who will win both cars.