dj's B4C

Hi Folks! New to the forum, but have been reading for awhile to research my latest purchase.

1992 Camaro Z-28, 1LE,L98,Z03, automatic.
White paint with customer ordered "BLACK" Heritage stripes instead of the standard RED stripes. How rare is THAT!?

NADA says the Heritage is worth between 9625 and 17875.
Regular Z-28 worth between 3900 and 5825.
Why the big difference?

Are there any stats as to how many Heritage Editions were made and numbers as far as RS vs Z28, engines installed?

Any Heritage info greatly appreciated!

Any numbers info on either of my Camaros also appreciated!

Other Camaro is also a 92, B4C (with light bar, 1LE, L98.
Love these cars!

Thanks! d.j.

bes217

Well, just being a B4C with 1LE makes is rare, and being a heritage car makes it even more rare. You have a special car, I just hope that you take care of it.

MdFormula350

wow sweet find.

CraZ-28

Good find and welcome to the boards.

By the way, where in AZ are you at? If you didn't know we are having a 3rd gen get together here in Tucson for the Super Chevy show. If you can make it I'm sure a lot of us would like to see it in person. Check out the Southwestern Regional boards for more info.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

White paint with customer ordered "BLACK" Heritage stripes instead of the standard RED stripes.

During the first and second generation years, GM allowed customer ordered cars to deviate from their "accepted" combinations. In other words, you could easily order a blue exterior with a red interior, for example. This stopped for the third generation years. Chevrolet did NOT allow any deviations from their "acceptable" combinations from 1982 thru 1992 (and possibly beyond, but I do not know anything about 4th gens).

At their introduction, the heritage color combos were as follows:

White with red striping,
Black with red striping, &
Red with black striping.

Later in the model year run, two additional color combinations were added:

Purple haze with silver striping &
Polo Green II with gold striping (RS only).

No exceptions were ever produced. So if you have a white heritage with black striping, the only way this could have occurred is if the original owner paid the selling dealership to paint over the original red striping with black. I'm sorry to say that this is the only way a white/black heritage car could have been sold.


NADA says the Heritage is worth between 9625 and 17875.
Regular Z-28 worth between 3900 and 5825.
Why the big difference?

Collectability. Notice how NADA asks for mileage for the 1992 non-heritage Camaros, but not for the heritage equipped cars? When they do not ask for mileage, the car is considered "collectable".


Are there any stats as to how many Heritage Editions were made and numbers as far as RS vs Z28, engines installed?

No. Chevrolet does not keep any production records of option combinations.

dj's B4C

That's for the info Willie!

But "what if" this is the original white paint,
and these really are BLACK stripes?

Don't make me take out the bill of sale!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

That's for the info Willie!

Glad to provide some insight.


But "what if" this is the original white paint,
and these really are BLACK stripes?

I made a slight mistake on my original reply. The heritage stripes were never painted on. They are decals.

I am not 100 percent knowledgeable on heritage cars. By that, I mean I don't know if there is an RPO code for the striping colors. I don't believe there is, but am open to more info if anyone has some. Yes, RPO Z03 is the Heritage Appearance Package, but not sure if this is further broken down by color. If it's not, there is absolutely no way to prove what color striping came on any heritage car, only that it came with striping.

Regardless of striping color, you've got a keeper!!


Don't make me take out the bill of sale!

The original bill of sale may state black striping, but the bill of sale is produced by the dealership, not GM. Therefore, this would only solidify what I stated above -- that it was a dealer change, not one that came down the assembly line at Van Nuys.

The only way to conclusively prove that you own a one-of-a-kind car is through GM documentation, not dealership documentation such as a bill of sale.

BTW, did you get the PM I sent you?

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

I may have just figured out how to conclusively tell what color striping came on your car from GM!!! I'm examining the Camaro parts manual. In the "1992 F Stripes/Body (25th Anniversary Z03) section, I believe I see RPO codes for the striping colors!!! It lists the following:

81U = Black
10U & 41U = Red (Don't know why two codes are listed)
84U = Silver
45U = Gold

See if your SPID sticker lists any of these and I think we have the answer!!

Willie

iroc22

Weren't the two special edition 92 Z28's that had the 300hp L98 and ZF 6 speed the white with black stripes setup?

dj are those louvers on your back window?

dj's B4C

I wish mine had the 6 speed! What a find that would of been!
Mine is an automatic .

Yes those are louvers on the back. If you are going to ask me where I got them, they came with the car.

I won an auction on ebay for a second set for my B4C ($61) But they are in Washington state. It's gonna cost me $161 to get them shipped down here because they are considered oversized.
Any one know a cheaper way to ship them??

I'll post more on the Heritage and it's BLACK stripe history this weekend. I get the orginal paperwork from the previous (original) owner this weekend.

Love these car's!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Weren't the two special edition 92 Z28's that had the 300hp L98 and ZF 6 speed the white with black stripes setup?

No PRODUCTION third generation Camaro had the 6-speed.

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

DJ,

Did you check your RPO codes? That will tell all.

Willie

Tim Burgess

Hummm..........Dark Teal Metallic w/ gray stripes.

Tim Burgess

And the rear shot....

Dean92RS

Wow! I think you may have solved my dilemma about what to do with my teal RS.

I'm wishy-washy about the color plain, like mine is, but love the stripes and blisters on yours. The new z grille is in a box in the hatch----but where'd you get the stripe kit for a blistered hood?

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Tim painted his stripes and did the work himself. Not bad for a first time painter, wouldn't you say? He was originally thinking of black, but I talked him out of it. Told him silver would be the best choice (at least in my opinion).

What makes Tim's car rare is obviously not the striping as it's not original. It's not that he's the original owner either. It's because it's teal which was used only on the Z28 in 1992, and it's only one of 18 Z28's in 1992 with a 305 and G92 (and all other performance options that came with G92).

Willie

iroc22

Hmm I should clarify my last post.

The two special edition 92 Z28's with the 300hp L98 and ZF 6 speed were never released to public. I thought the word two would have been a obvious indication.

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

So teal Z28s only were in 92? If thats the case then there is a teal 92 Z right by my house, I was never sure if it was a 91 or 92 i assumed that i was a 91 cuz there are much more of them around. Well that is pretty cool then.

Kevin

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Hmm I should clarify my last post....

Thanks. On this board, we talk primarily about factory production vehicles, not "one of" or prototypes. That's because guys sometimes visit here and think they have a unique car because of, say, one weird or rare difference. This difference is always attrituted to a dealership or the original owner. I say "always" because no one to date has been able to document their difference was the way GM made the car. It would be cool if DJ's car originally came with black stripes because that would make it ONE OF A KIND. He hasn't reported back with his findings yet, which would be a simple thing as looking at the RPO codes to determine "upper body color" (as GM puts it).

The owners of these cars are always bummed when the truth finally sets in (which is a normal reaction), but it must be this way.

Here's another example of this very same thing. My 1987 Z28 convertible. I bought it from the original owner. Being a Z28 (not an IROC-Z), it came with accent color rockers and a four-color stripe. When I saw the owner for the first time (as a potential buyer) and saw the car, it was solid red with no striping!! I asked her what happened to the original accent color and stripes. She told me she ordered the car that way. I know that it would have been impossible for GM to build (paint) the car that way because no deviations from "standard" were made in the third generation years. Knowing this, I probed her statement (politely). It turns out that when the car arrived at the dealership, THEY removed the striping and painted the rockers red. When she showed up to purchase the car, it was solid red. She NEVER saw the car with the striping/accenting color rockers!! So you see how this type of thing could happen?

I firmly believe this is exactly what happened with DJ's car -- the original owner wanted something "unique" and told the dealership to remove the red striping and add black. He probably never saw the car with red striping. I should make one more point here. There was no option for the Heritage Appearance Package striping color on the dealership order form. Yes, Z03 could be checked, but no mention of color was made. It was an automatic selection based on the combinations that were available.

I believe that whatever documentation that DJ has on a white Camaro with black Heritage striping will be from the dealership, not GM, except the original window sticker and/or build sheet. So until DJ can provide us with GM documentation, I have no choice but to stick with my beliefs. And if he can provide GM documentation, his car would be unique and publications must be notified of such -- that ONE non-standard Camaro was built in 1992.

I just hope that whatever the outcome, DJ doesn't think I'm putting his car down. Those of you who know me know better. Let me conclude with this statement, "The truth is out there!" and it should be revealed for the betterment of all.

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

So teal Z28s only were in 92?

Yes, this is true. The source of the info is the Camaro White Book.


If thats the case then there is a teal 92 Z right by my house, I was never sure if it was a 91 or 92 i assumed that i was a 91 cuz there are much more of them around.

There were a TON of 91/92 teal RS's built!! It was a very popular (and new) color in the early 90's. I don't know why they didn't have it available on the Z28 in 91.....

Willie

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

I know that there are alot of them around me, RS that is. I was just comenting on the fact that I have only seen one teal Z28, and finding out that it was 92 only cooler since there are few 92 Z28s out there to begine with.

BTW is there anything Willie does not know??

Kevin

Tim Burgess

Do you know if it has a 5.7L TPI badge on the rear bumper, or a 5.0L badge? And, if it's a 5.0L, is it a 5 spd with rear disc brakes? Would be interesting to know........

Yes, I did paint the stripes on the car - thanks for the color recommendation, Willie! It turned out to be quite the awesome combo. White would have been way too loud......I was fortunate enough to see a '92 Z with the heritage Appearance Pkg while driving to work one day (red with blk stripes), a few years back. I followed the guy until he stopped & I asked him if he'd mind if I measured the stripes on his car - he said no prob - so I spent the next hour recording the details of the layout of the GM applied Heritage Appearence Pkg decals. I painted the hood & deck lid & aero wing Dk Teal Met & then painted the ('87 trim) Met Silver on top of that & then clear coated the entire works. Masking prior to painting the striping was the most labor intensive part of the job - took about 1/2 day.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

BTW is there anything Willie does not know??

How to win the lottery.....

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I was looking at a 2003 Monte Carlo (for fun) and I told the salesman that I wish they came with t-top like the old Montes. He said that they could probably make it happen if it would make the deal. Now of course, little did he know....


...but the point is that they'll do what it takes. (within reason).

adding black stripes back in 92 probably cost the dealer about $100 bucks. Easily worth doing to close the deal.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

....but the point is that they'll do what it takes. (within reason)..... adding black stripes back in 92 probably cost the dealer about $100 bucks. Easily worth doing to close the deal.

Completely agree. In fact, I know a guy who bought a new 1988 IROC-Z, but hated the newly designed wheel. So for slightly extra $$$, the dealership swapped these wheels for wheels off a 1987 IROC-Z that was still on the lot. When he eventually sold the car, he told the buyer that his car was unique -- that he bought the car new with 1987 wheels!! The buyer assumed that meant it was a unique car. So ya see, there's all sorts of stories out there of "one of's". I hear of these quite often. So far, none have shown any proof.

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

I'll post more on the Heritage and it's BLACK stripe history this weekend. I get the orginal paperwork from the previous (original) owner this weekend.

I wonder what happened. I'd like to know more about this car.

Willie

fisherbody86

I bet that if you find your build sheet for the car, alot of your questions would be answered. The previous owner could lie and tell you what you want to hear, but the build sheet is the absoulte no bullsh*t truth as to what the car had when it left Van Nuys. Even if the black stripes were laid down by a Van Nuys employee in the parking lot of the plant 2 minutes after it passed final inspection, it doesn't make it anything special. It's when the stripes were laid down by the same plant employee 2 minutes earlier and 100 yards away within the plant walls that make it special. lol

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

All I have to say is one thing, never, EVER trust a car salesman. I should know, my dad used to be one!

dj's B4C

Got it! Not what I thought!
Reason I could not go into detail was I didn't have the car yet!
As Willie said (and you didn't hurt my feelings) the truth will come out! Here it is!
Go to eBay and check out the car I was referring to, item number is:

2438342395

From first appearances I see (from what I learned from this forum) is a Heritage Edition 92 Camaro. Note the stripes, hood bulges, blacked out headlight area, same color front fascia, 25th Anniversary badge on rear, seats. Couldn't tell ya about it while the auction was on cuz you would have made me pay a lot more for it!!

Anyway, here it is.
Please explain why it has all of the Heritage specs but no Z03 RPO code? Doesn't sound like the owner cloned it. Original paint, stripes are real...

Still haven't talked to the owner (neighbor posted the eBay auction). Car is VERY clean (minus paint peeling). Once I saw the car I still had to have it!

So it looks like I have a 92 Z28 with:

B2L-Performance & Engine Package
DE1-Louvers
GU5-3.23 Gear
G80-Posi
J65-4 wheel disks
KC4-Oil Cooler
L98-5.7 Liter
N10-Dual Exhaust

Unknown: (Help!)
1AY
1SZ

I only listed what I thought were the important codes.
So, she apparently isn't what I thought.
But I'm gonna keep her anyway!

Thanks all for keeping with me on this. It was fun!
Thanks Willie for your knowledge and understanding.

Love these cars!
d.j.

dj's B4C

eBay this
2431685794
to see my other 92 Camaro!

Have since reinstalled the light bar (blue and amber lenses).
People are soooo nice to me when I drive this car!
Those left lane lovers move right on over when I pull up behind them!
Just wish I could pull them over and smack the *&%# out of them!

I'll try to bring both cars to the Southwest meeting.

Love these cars!
d.j.

CraZ-28

Glad to see the mystery is finally solved............................for now.

















oh yeah, can't wait to see the cars in person.

oldblueZ

I'd love to see that with the light bar on it......but isn't that kind of illegal? For impersonating a police officer? *shrug* I think it was here in Colorado that some guy "pulled over" a girl because he had a light bar, then commited a crime.

-Jesse

dj's B4C

Arizona law states that you can not display a "red or red and blue" light or lens that is visible from the front center of the vehicle. My neighbor is a Lt. on the police force, we copied and went over the law together he advised me to carry a copy of the law with me. Just in case!
Course you can't light them up while moving! That IS illegal!

I'll post pics soon.
This pic is not a Camaro, but it's another one of my Chevy cars!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Reason I could not go into detail was I didn't have the car yet!
As Willie said (and you didn't hurt my feelings) the truth will come out!

It's rare to find someone who's open-minded about this kind of issue. Thanks for being open and objective.


From first appearances I see (from what I learned from this forum) is a Heritage Edition 92 Camaro. Note the stripes, hood bulges, blacked out headlight area, same color front fascia, 25th Anniversary badge on rear, seats.

Let me clarify a couple of issues. The Heritage Edition option (RPO Z03) included the double striping, rear deck emblem, and a color-keyed front "grill". That's it!! So it would be very simple for someone to add these pieces, to make a Camaro look like it has RPO Z03. FYI, the "25th Anniversary" dash emblem was used in ALL 1992 Camaros, not just Z03.


Please explain why it has all of the Heritage specs but no Z03 RPO code?

I think I explained it above.


Doesn't sound like the owner cloned it.

Gotta disagree here. It's simple to do. In fact, Tim added the rear deck emblem years ago and recently painted the stripes himself on his Dark Teal Metallic '92 Z28 (shown above). All that's needed is a color-keyed front grill and it would "appear" as a one-of-a-kind dark metallic teal Heritage Appearance Z28 (of which none were made).


Original paint, stripes are real...

I have no doubt about these items. So is Tim's and we know his doesn't have Z03!!


So it looks like I have a 92 Z28 with:
Unknown: (Help!)
1AY
1SZ

1AY = Dealership ordered vehicle. FYI, 1AZ = Customer ordered.
1SZ = Not for sure, but I believe this is one of the option packages.


So, she apparently isn't what I thought. But I'm gonna keep her anyway!

I would too. Any 1LE is worth keeping. It IS a 1LE, isn't it?


Thanks all for keeping with me on this. It was fun! Thanks Willie for your knowledge and understanding.

Glad to help. That's why we're here! Now, test me on a subject I know about, the 1987 Camaro convertible!! When you come to Tucson on the 15th, I'll show you one of two verfied 1987 Z28 convertibles with a 305 TPI / 5-speed. Oh, and did you know the 1987 convertibles were the 20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition Camaro? It's the only third gen Camaro with a map pocket and is considered the unknown anniversary Camaro.

Willie

scottmoyer

Why was it for fun? I love mine. It isn't the fastest in the world, but it looks good and drives great. Now back to our regularly scheduled and unhijacked thread!

Tim Burgess

Willie,

Did the Heritage Appearance Package also include color coordinated rims, or was that part of the standard paint package? Saw a red '92 Z28 convertible with the black Heritage stripes on it this morning on the way to work - had the red rims too - GAUDY!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Tim,

1) The Black/Red stripe combo included red painted wheels and silver could be ordered.

2) The Red/Black stripe combo came with the same red painted wheels. Again, silver could be ordered.

3) The White/Red stripe combo came with white painted wheels. And again, silver could be ordered.

I have no wheel color information on the combinations available later in the model year run; Purple Haze/Silver or Polo Green II/Gold.

Willie

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

As for the Purple/silver I know there was no option for purple inserts and silver was stock, so i belive they came with these (ooh purple wheels..funnn), hey willlie how many of these did they make? (with stripes that is) And polo green II/gold every one ive seen in this color had gold wheels on it so im assuming it came with gold painted wheels with an option for silver?

bigals87z28

hey Willie.. Im glad to see that this was all sorted out.. but maybe you can answer me this question about the car that was posted first...

It looks like a 92 Z28 with the black eye pockets, but the grill is white? Could that be a sign of a paint job? Thats the only thing that stuck out when I saw it.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

As for the Purple/silver I know there was no option for purple inserts and silver was stock, so i belive they came with these (ooh purple wheels..funnn), hey willlie how many of these did they make? (with stripes that is) And polo green II/gold every one ive seen in this color had gold wheels on it so im assuming it came with gold painted wheels with an option for silver?

Very good reasoning. I like it.

The total number of Heritage Appearance package cars is 8,197. The officially recognized total 1992 Camaro production is 70,007 (although I have record of a 70,008th car being built, but that's another story).


It looks like a 92 Z28 with the black eye pockets, but the grill is white? Could that be a sign of a paint job?

All Heritage cars got a color-keyed grill. The red cars got a red grill, the white cars got a white grill and the black cars got a black grill (the black grill is the same as non-heritage cars). The headlamp pockets on all Z28's are black.

Willie

scottmoyer

I believe all heritage editions had the black painted headlight pockets. RSs and Z28s. Non heritage edition cars had body color pockets.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Non heritage edition cars had body color pockets.

Z28's were all black. RS's were body color.

Willie

Tim Burgess

This may be irrelevant to this particular discussion, but the Berlinetta seems to always be the exception, so I thought I'd mention it here - the Berlinetta (at least in '84) came with black "eyes", too.

scottmoyer

I should have been clearer. I was referring to the RS cars when I mentioned the headlight pockets. All Z28s and IROC-Zs have the black headlight pocket, but aren't the only RSs with the black pockets the Heritage Editions?

bigals87z28

Thanks Big Willie.... oh man that songs in my head... dam me!

Willie

iTrader: (1)

....aren't the only RSs with the black pockets the Heritage Editions?

No. Here's a pic of the 1987 RS, directly from a Motor Trend article on the newest RS, released in California only. It appears to have black pockets. I wonder if the '88 RS had these too? I believe once in regular production, 1989, they were body color.

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

and a second from another publication. Definitely black...

scottmoyer

I had an 88 Sport Coupe and it was body color. I don't know about the Limited Production RSs though.

dj's B4C

______________________

So what do I have Willie?
Original owner says this is the original paint (notice white grill).
I'm 99.8% sure that he is telling the truth. If he had cloned this car to be a Heritage, why didn't he advertise it as one on eBay?
That would have netted him more bids/money than he received.
If I had gone through all of the trouble to clone a car I would of at least mentioned that it was a clone, or if less honest, would have tried to pass it off as a real Heritage.

Is it possible that this car came with all of the characteristics of a Heritage and it isn't one? Remember that the stripes were "factory" ordered to be black because the owner didn't want red stripes. Yeah, I know the dealer could of done it, but why does the car have all the right pieces?

Thanks, d.j.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

So what do I have Willie?

The answer ALWAYS lies in the RPO codes. There are no two ways about it. Whatever is listed on the SPID sticker is the way the car originally came, period.


Original owner says this is the original paint (notice white grill).
I'm 99.8% sure that he is telling the truth. If he had cloned this car to be a Heritage, why didn't he advertise it as one on eBay?

You haven't been around TGO very long. It's amazing the cars people advertise on e-bay and how bogus many of them are. The owners basically (but not always) fall in two categories:

1) They were "told" something about their car. When it came time to sell, the owner tried (unknowingly) to pass it on as what they were told. Or

2) They're trying to make an extra buck knowing they're being fraudulent.

Do you guys remember the "all original" 1987 yellow IROC-Z convertible? It was a dealership in Canada. I won't go into details, only to say that ZERO third gen Camaro convertibles were yellow. It turns out that this car was originally yellow, but it was not a convertible. This is only one of countless "finds" that have surfaced on e-bay in the last four years or so.


That would have netted him more bids/money than he received.
If I had gone through all of the trouble to clone a car I would of at least mentioned that it was a clone, or if less honest, would have tried to pass it off as a real Heritage.

It's very simple to "make" a Heritage Appearance package:

1) Buy the striping and apply it.

2) Buy the rear deck emblem and affix it.

3) Buy the color-keyed grill and install it (six screws).

Voila!! It's now a Heritage Appearance Camaro!! (But the RPO codes reveal all!!!!) Keep in mind that a private individual, as well as a dealership, can do this work. I'm betting in your case that the dealership performed the task. Ya see, you listed RPO 1AY as being on your car. That means it was ordered by the dealership for their stock. Speculation: The original owner went to the dealership in 91-92 to buy a white Heritage Z28. When he saw that the dealership didn't have any, he decided to order one. It's a known fact that dealership would rather sell you a lot car than to order one. So the salesman said something like, "Wait just a minute.... I think we can come up with a Heritage car!!" He talks to management and they realize that it would be simple to add/replace the parts necessary to make their white "lot" Z28 into a Heritage car. So the salesman says to the prospective buyer, "We've got a white Z28 and we can make it into a Heritage car!!! What color striping would you like? And the best news is, we can work the price of the extra goodies into the financing!!" Ya see what could have transpired?


Is it possible that this car came with all of the characteristics of a Heritage and it isn't one?

No. I think I explained it well enough above. Just remember, the SPID sticker reveals all.

Willie