Bill Speed

Well, I found two issues from 1989 that have interesting, if not already known, data. Anyone interested in me putting up some of the info from these articles? If you recall some of the features, make mention of which ones and I'll look.

This was from my own personal subscription in 1989 when my car was born. I suspect some here already have seen these mags and at the time Motortrend were disparaging the F car as old and dated, BUT they did give it high marks for it's obvious performance standings that have made it the legend it is even with all the numerous competition during it's ten plus year run.
The neatest stuff is how it compared to other current cars (even the new foreign breed) and the original list and 'As Tested' prices.
As an example, in the Bang For the Buck shootout a Iroc Z droptop and TA GTA were tested along with the 89 TA Turbo!
The droptop Camaro had an 'as tested' price of $30,000.
The GTA 350 L98 was 'as tested' at $22,000.
I haven't got a scanner setup yet, but I'll add some more if you guys want.

The best all around sports car during that year was not American though... it was the Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo which still is an amazing, awesome car! (also $30K new)

-Bill

labrat

According to the White Book the 82 Z28 was Motor Trend's car of the year. It would be interesting to see that article. I'd like to see some of those older articles from motor trend. People tend to forget that at the time these cars we're close to the top of the performance heap.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

You know I don't think the fourth gens ever won a category like car of the year. Or one of the 12 best handling cars in the world.

The third gens did do it several times. One second gen car was the fastest production car in the world for a year or so. I think the SD got that honor if I am not mistaken. But it is highly likely that I am.

I have seen fourth gens reffered to as great performance for the money. But nothing as bold as handling awards or car of the year.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

You are correct 87WS6. Magazines always have something to say when a car is on the same chassis for like even 5 or 6 years, that's just the way they are, it's like they expect it to change constantly. I'm glad the Third Gen was here for so long, they should have kept it longer IMO!! They sold better than 4ths even after being here for 10 years or so.

To the person who wanted to see the 82 Car Of The Year: https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/b...roftheyear.jpg

TA 83 Daytona

IROCZTWENTYGR8, thanks for posting that link. That ad is awesome, I wish I had old magazines when they actually did articles on our cars...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Click here for lots of them, always check our main page.

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/b...es/index.shtml

91Zman

As everyone probably knows that the 4thgeneration was the worst as far as sales goes,whether due to hardly no advertising,overpriced or their looks,but even the 1st generation camaros outsold them by 93,372 units

Bill Speed

10 years of the third gens, 82 to 1992

I found the issue I was thinking of I do believe... June 1989, the cover story FLAT OUT AMERICAN CARS 2, the sequel. I don't know if I have the first one though.

Pontiac Gran Prix Turbo and TA Turbo both featured... also the Arizona border patrol TA and Camaro Iroc in an example of police cruisers that require speed for pursuits.

When the SD was mentioned, I think the Lambo Countach was already debutted? That was either 1971/2 or 74? I think the first Countach on the street was 1974 though. I can't really recall the world's fastest production car, but Lamborghini and Ferrari already had cars out during that time frame that were pretty darn fast.
Considering the 4th gen mentions here, it's funny that I see so many around here.... several convertibles the other day in fact!
Bill

Bill Speed

Gotta run at the moment but 89s car of the year was in the January 89 issue so that's bogus me thinks but it was the Thunderbird SC which is not a bad Ford in my book, but still boring hehe

The 1992 winner was the newly designed Seville (and Eldorado) though not adorned with the awesome Northstar, these were good transition cars for GM.

BILL

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I used to live in Arizona. Highway patrol TA's kick ***. I was also unsure of the year. But I am fairly certain one year had the TA as the fastest production cars. Now I might be mistaken but I don't know if the Labmo's can be considered production. Weren't they hand assembled then?

Magazines do rip on cars when they don't change platforms very often. They think every two or three years should change them completely. Which is why resale value on cars is so bad. The longer they go without change the better.

In their world when you don't own the cars or have to pay for them to drive them I guess you would want them to change all the time. But for the owners its different. For manufacturers it's better if they don't have to re-tool factories as often. Especially on a sports car or higher end car the amount of profit they have is smaller. So they want to milk a design for all it's worth.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I would also like to point out that when the Trans-AMs and Camaros were redesigned in 1982 they were pretty advanced technology wise. The design was bold and new. Not to mention that in the lack luster automotive industry of the day, nothing short of the Corvette was interesting or great to look at.

There were few cars for the enthusiast. Hardly anything with large displacement. The Corvette was out of most people's price range.

Part of what made the thirdgen successful was the timing of their release. A real drivers car with great options and power plants. Also they had several budget models so that people could afford to have a Camaro or Firebird even if it wasn't the nicest model.

By Comparison the only thing to be said for the fourth gen even if you are a fan of the style is that it performs well. Responds well to modding and doesn't really have a competitor in the same price range.

Think about it. During the fourth gen years the Mustang never really did compete. All the models except the Cobra were slower. The Cobra was way more expensive then a fully loaded TA or Camaro.

Part of the problem with the fourth gen is lack of options. You have two engines only. V6 or V8. I know they changed over the years but only two were ever available at a time. None of the special edition cars were centered around performance except the Comp TA or the Firehawk.

You had only 3 interior color options most of the time. (I think). And as time went on they got even more tight about the options.

The third gen car could be found in many styles depending on trim level and had what like 6 interior colors? All fourth gens basically look alike. There is no personality difference between models.

Third gens however look alot different based on options.

So there are alot of reasons why the third gen car enjoyed more success then the fourth gens did.

Bill Speed

As for the Lamborghinis and other exotics, they were partially hand assembled, or mostly, but still kept a steady production so I would say they are 'production' in my way of thinking. Cars that were truly limited in the case of the 959 or McLaren F1 I would exclude, or any 'tuner' cars like the AMGs and Ruf.
I'm curious if the year in question isn't 1973 or 4, but I guess that's a bit off subject. I have the 89 COTY issue and it's February, not January as I thought.

The ZR1 Vette roadtested in the June issue priced at $55K!!

175 to 178 MPH was estimated top speed (Chevy required roll cages for full on speed test) MT was able to coax 181 out of the one with the cage!
The Iroc Z was 350 with 4 speed auto at $14,145 and 240 HP
The ZR 1 vette was also 350 cubes but 380 HP. The Gran Prix was done with help from McLaren, who I believe to be the people behind the ultra fast and spendy F1, which can go to about 240 MPH!!
The Pontiac 20th Anniversary TA was 3.8 V6 of course, 245 cu in.
and 245 HP. (conservatively rated, say MT!)

The TA price was $20,399 and the GP was $25K estimated.

The GP was 88 car of the year and 205 HP 3.1 V6 powered for the 89 shootout.

162 mph was the radar reading on the turbo TA which had tranny problems and required 'locking'.... not too shabby.
The corvette L98 managed 153 while the other cars went a margin or three slower

hehe
The IROC did 144 to a top radar speed of 149.

Bandit400

I love looking at the old magazine articles about our cars. Started buying in 1989. A couple of issues that I regret not getting still are the 1991 huge Motor Trend Shootout that included a blue Z28 and an issue that tested one of the first Firehawks.

Yes, 3rd gens had many options base 6 cyl, base 305, even better 305, and top gun 350, (even a 4 cyl for a while). Plus it was ALWAYS easy to tell the upper performance models apart from the other cars -ie IROZ Z with specific graphics and wheels, and '91, 92 with huge spoiler and bulges. to tell a 4th gen Z28 apart from the 6cyl you had to know what to look for -badges, exhaust tip because even the "Z28 exclusive" blacked out roof changed. The 4th gen Formula looked just like the base V6car except for the exhaust tips adn little decals.

And ONLY 2 engines were available at any given time except for late '94 when the 3.8 first became available which replaced the 3.4. You want 200 hp or 280 hp? Not like it used to be when you could have 145, 170,205,230, or 245 hp. Kind reminds me of the 3rd gen stang when you had only 2 meager power plant choices...88hp 4cyl or 225 hp top gun. No in-between.

The 4th gen cars were heralded as better in every category but actually didn't have superior handling. PLus the female buyers dwindled. Something is better about each generation and it's too bad that GM didn't care enough to promote and try to sell them better. It was time for a 5th generation not cancelation.
They simply don't care about affordable performance. You want performance?- buy a vette. Can't afford it, too bad(they think). They just want to sell trucks and SUVs anyway.

Bill Speed

I'm sure some of the gearheads at GM are not too happy with bean counter and board decisions but it's hard to explain as I see many fourths on the road even with the SEVERE lack of advertising. I do agree with that point and have. Firebirds and Camaros got very little ads, in print and elsewhere.

Another bit I didn't add was that Ford declined to send cars for the shootout (hoping to add the SC Bird to the fray) MT borrowed a 5 liter LX and a Taurus SHO from one owner and they both performed right up there with the top cars. I'm not a Ford man, but they both did a tad over 140 MPH and that's within spitting distance of the TA and Camaro doing 150 odd.

If I had a scanner I'd scan this, but I've had problems PC related.
Anyway, there is also an ad featuring the 89 Turbo Trans Am in front of Pontiac's other cars for '89 and the Indy 500 building.
Should have been more, but again these were cars that were considered familiar since there early 80s production. According to MT, the Lambo Countach made it's debut in '71. I think it was '71 at the Geneva auto show though and not on the road that early.
If your a fan of exotics, you may know the first Countach had no scoops and ducts (or the wing), as it was designed more streamlined but was found to have countless cooling problems in it's early development. I don't know the early numbers, but the top speed of the last countach was 180 or so. The ZR1 is pretty impressive in that regard! The 24 valve overhead and more exotic nature of the Mercury Marine block may be reason why it doesn't get 'hot-rodded'. I guess I'm in the dark, but maybe most ZR1s made are still up and running and not in the parting out yet(?)


Bill

83crossfireZ28

the hatch glass on the 82 camaros and firebirds was the most advanced peice of automotive glass ever produced

i have lots of brochures and stuff,... including an engineering profile brochure about the 82 camaro

Bandit400

I remember reading the Camaro chassis was developed first for the Z28 and then 'lessened' for the other versions. THey wanted a 1 g car but fell short reaching the .8Xs and doing so with the skinny 215 tires. GM was all about handling in the early 80s with the F-car and the '84 Corvette but soon learned that the public didn't really want such a stiff ride and good handling afterall and spent the rest of the generation trying to make them ride smoother.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

They got real close to it though with the IROC-Z's, .92 G's. Still the best handling F-Bodies ever.

Bandit400

True. Even the F41 RS could manage .90.
Even the mighty 2002 WS6 couldn't do that, and they had fat 275s.

Bill Speed

Even in off the shelf car buyers guides I looked at the harsh ride and rattles made mentions on most occasions.
It's certainly indicative of a car designed for good handling and that also got mentioned, so enthusiests knew what they were getting at least.

If you were like me and had owned an 80's Cadillac and the 80's Birds/Camaros, you'd certainly notice the contradicting rides! The funny thing is I took my Eldorado Biarritz up to about 110 MPHs at one point and I think the top speed of the 4.1 is 125 or so. I'd like to test that, but alas. I don't know the official cornering but since the car is small, heavy and more square['d off] then any sports car, it takes a gifted driver to take it around freeway bridge ramps at speed hehe

Bill