I'm curious how many people are actually RESTORING thirdgens. I see a lot of posts concerning 'what did this car come with' but not much 'how do I restore this part' type posts.

I've gone thru the trouble of replacing various parts, restoring others, etc in an effort to make my cars more enjoyable. I don't see much info out there from other people doing the same. On the other hand the Fiero people have several sites with details on restoring their cars.

Are thirdgen owners content with beating their cars into the ground? Or do we just buy new parts to replace broken parts?

 

It seems to me a majority of people modify them to make them faster and or look different and therefore aren't too concerned with being original. For those that want originality, third gens are just now starting to get old enough to where parts are discontinued and harder to find.

 

actually the history and restoration board is my favorite.

But I bought car that didn't need restoration, because I wasn't that interested in restoring one. It seems to be hard enough to keep it in good shape just driving it.

I think that the information on this board has been useful and informative.

 

Yes I am trying to Restore a 82 indy pace car but its not not having the know how to do it its NOT having the cash right now to start on it.

 

I am only 18 but I am holding on to my 86 IROC not only cuz it was my first car but I want to restore it to its old glory. Its seen better days since some girl blew a stop sign and I nailed her. But it was no beauty queen because since I live in Chicago the salt has paid its toll!! But I am NOT ever getting rid of it!!! If I did I would not get any thing but $500 for it so its worth more to me to keep it! My White ROC will see its day!! But not for a while.

Kevin

 

It seems to me that this site has ALOT of info in general, you can find almost anything you want to, either in a search, or by asking. Someone always has the answer. But it looks like more and more ppl are into customizing their cars than restoring them. At least to me anyways.

 

I bought my 87 Z-28 Vert before I even knew what I had bought. I wanted a car that needed work, I like to wrench. Had it not been for this board, I would have never know what I was buying and have more than likely made some mods that would have destroyed the value of the car, like getting rid of the original lg4 305 and installed a 350. Now I am more interested in restoring the car to original show room condition. :lala:

 

In my opinion, I've yet to see a thirdgen that I would consider restored. I don't think that issues have been touched on that all these cars exhibit. I see general repairs, tons of customization and modification, but really nothing about rectifying the rattles in the interior, or stripping a car for a complete refinish. I've seen nothing to show that actual restorations are happening.

 

It seems that really nice ones out there are still original and not restored. In time there will be fewer really nice ones then people will be more inclined to restore them I think. These cars still aren't all that old from a classic car standpoint..yet.
Lots of good info. avail here when someone does need help though.

 

I bought my bird specifically to restore, but by the time i actually get around to doing it there will probably be alot more info available. As of now, this site is pretty much the definitive authority I think.

 

Drew thats whats going to have to be done to my 82 pace car. but right now I dont have the 10k its going to cost me to do it. Let alone the 4k for the paint job. & no one makes the Replacement seat stuff for the cars YET.

 

You can't compare the 3rd gen Camaros/Firebirds to the Fieros in any regards. There are many reasons people are "restoring" Fieros:

The 3rd gens were made for 4 years after the Fiero died off.
The Fiero was only a 5 year run, which considerably limited the parts availability.
There are more aftermarket replacement parts for the 3rd gens because of it's popularity and heritage.
The 3rd gens had a 4th gen, many parts are interchangeable and can be upgraded.
370k Fieros made over it's lifespan, but 2.3+million 3rd gens over it's lifespan.
Still see lotsa 3rd gens on the road, in all conditions.
Very rarely do you see a Fiero. That's why they get restored and ours don't.

 

I have a good example.

I'm about halfway through the effort of restoring to the original shape a 1988 non-A/C (standard heater C41) G92 305 TPI that has the DX3 option as well.

For many of the parts that I have replaced in favour of newer ones, I've obtained them from Year One. I'm having trouble locating new inside door stickers however. Other than that, pieces have been reasonably available.

I did strip the entire car bare (carpet, interior panels, exterior ground effects etc) to make sure everything was in ok shape and not necessarily showcar quality but lined up and such. Plus it had to be paint ready as well because of the new paint that was put on.

As far as the restoration steps go, I really have had no need to come on here to ask questions. It's a fairly straight foward job to me anyway and plus I have the help of my Dad who has restored an uncountable amount of cars (the 68 Chevy II he currently owns is immaculate).

I believe that most of the fine examples of thirdgens on the roads today, have been that way from the start. They've just been taken care of. Unfortunately mine was never taken care of and that's why I have to do what I am doing.

 

I'm more interested in the history aspects of the forum since my T/A does not require any restoration at this time. I'm glad the previous owner kept excellent care of the car.

The Wife's 85 HO on the other hand will need some parts, the good thing is that I have a perfect example of how it should look sitting right next to it

 

I think restoring a third-gen is a great idea. But that's not why alot of up bought third-gens(IMO anyway)--to restore them to showroom condition. It's a cheap performance car with lots of potential to go fast and with good paint they look great. When stuff breaks on my car, it gets replaced with something better than factory.

"In my opinion, I've yet to see a thirdgen that I would consider restored. I don't think that issues have been touched on that all these cars exhibit. I see general repairs, tons of customization and modification, but really nothing about rectifying the rattles in the interior, or stripping a car for a complete refinish. I've seen nothing to show that actual restorations are happening."

You sound almost upset about this. Are you saying we should be doing resto's on our third-gens? My comment to your last sentence is "so what". How many cars need a resto and have owners that can afford it. My old 82 is solid, no rattles, and I can't imagine why I would want or need to strip it down. Wait another 10 years and see.

 

I agree, and further down the road, the third gen resto industry is only gonna get better, with more parts etc. available. No rush now, the day will get here.

 

i've got two cars sitting here, one of which i want to restore, yet make it somewhat modernized.

the other one i just want to make a decent driver, and sell it to someone who will take the time to restore an early z correctly.

:shrug:

we'll see how far i get.

 

I have one in the works but i have limited time with 2 young girls and both my wife and I working. I am restoring it for fun. i think the reason more are not restored is because there are still plenty of low miliage ones out there that can be purchased much cheaper than restoring one.

 

agreed. it'll be a few more years before these cars are really desireable.

 

I just happened across my 84 Bird that was sitting out by the road with a For Sale sign on it. The owner put it out 10 minutes before I went by. It was in pretty good condition body wise except for a few problems and very little rust (a miracle in Ohio, aka- the salt state). It is in the shop now getting painted (as well as new weatherstripping, and some other stuff) and I want to do a semi-restore on it. I will likely never be able to afford a total "back to factory" redo, but I plan on redoing the paint and exterior to factory shape (except the wheels that I hate and will use aftermarket ones I like), and a redo of the interior. I've purchased an identical engine from another '84 to rebuild with some moderate performance parts instead of strictly stock. Just looking to use it as stress management therapy and have a good looking car with a stronger than stock engine (but not a drag racer... more of a respectable cruiser). The short answer is that I bought it with a "restoration" in mind as I like to work on cars and it was available and very reasonable. I think that you can learn a ton about your ride if you do a project like this. Brad

 

I can proudly say I'm restoring my 84, not to original condition but how I always wanted. Floor pans, T-tops, rebuilding the engine and transmission. All of my interior will be replaced and a few aftermarket pieces added. Alot of our stuff is discontinued through GM, (I know I work for a Chevrolet dealership and one of our parts guys has an 87 IROC and he keeps buying up the last of the available parts for his car) I will admit It's hard to spend thousands of dollars on restoring my car knowing it's only gonna be worth a quarter of what I put into it, but I plan on keeping it.
Alot of people (not on this board) think I'm crazy for even attempting it. The fact is in south Florida I can count maybe five
nice Thirdgen cars I have seen, the rest are all beat-to-hell six
cylinders who will be in a junkyard soon. These cars, in decent shape are becoming rare.

 

I agree with ChevyTech84. I have seen a few third gens in our area and most are in horrible shape body-wise. I think that a good looking third gen is going to be a rare find in the future. I too will end up spending tons on the modest "restore" I'm doing after rebuilding all the mechanicals, but I too plan on keeping it. While they made a ton of these cars and few of these are rare vehicles, I think they will be a rarity in the future as many of them rust into oblivion in the near future. My son has a nicely redone 1992 Firebird with new paint, etc. He gets looks and compliments from everyone even though it's a stock V6. He got a charge out of an older guy in a third gen pulling up beside him and giving him a "thumbs up" sign. Quite a thrill for a 17 year old! If ya got a third gen, take care of it! Brad

PS- ChevTech84-- make us proud with that restore and post some pics when ya get it done so we can admire your work!

 

I think any restoration requires time and money and most buy third gens to get sports cars in an affordable range. There's no question these found used are great performers at a good price, but aren't we in the same boat as 80s Ford people? In terms of customs or keeping a car close to factory. Most people, in general don't think highly of any 1980s cars.
It was a tough time in the car business, especially with Japanese competition.
I'd restore portions not related to performance or in terms that keep it road worthy economical. I do like these boards. No real complaints here
-Bill

 

I see more then a few, but agree nontheless. You also have to admire the 1986 Fiero (or was that 87?) That was the beginning and end of a great car, as GM did with the Impala SS....BAD move.
Anyway, They are also used as Lambo and Ferrari kit car chassis, don't forget!
hehehe

-B

 

The impression I get is that any additional effort placed in documenting restorations, and providing more restoration info, would be wasted. It's a lot of work to take the time to photograph and document the minor restoration work I do to my cars. It gets even more difficult writing the HTML and establishing a layout. It's too much of a pain in the *** to justify for the few people that would actually use the information.

 

Drew, I can sympathize with your thinking, but besides cost and time, there is also a question of space and tools. If you aren't mechanically inclined and all those factors line up in your favor, it's hard to accept a majority of people to fall in that catagory. I'm more then willing to relagate the work to an expert who spends the time and experience to do the/a project.
I don't have alot of the above so it's often the recourse.

I feel these boards are a little open ended which allows more 'fanboy', if you will appreciation which I don't find a bad thing. The plus side is there is very little of what one could call 'trolling' found on such boards.

-BILL

 

Drew,

I am restoring a 1988 Trans Am. I intend to use as much correct parts as possible, even down to getting a set of Good year gatorback V-rated tires!

Last week I installed tore into the car and hooked back up the factory speakers and wiring, and installed a correct AM/FM (no cassette) deck! I find it hard to say, but I was excited to see my RADIO working! LOL.

I want to re-paint under the car, and detail the parts that should be, and leave parts that shouldn't be. You might recall my question about paint colors under the car.

I'm even picky to the point, I want to use GM hose clamps and not the usual replacements you see.

Lastly, I want to document the car as well as possible. Where is was built, sold at, sold to, how it was delivered, etc. Since mine was also a race car, I have more history to document.

I find there is lots of good info in here, and some good knowledgeble people. I would welcome more detailed information.

Mark.

 

Sounds like a 'frame-on' restoration. The only part I really have a problem with is AM/FM car radios!! Virtually every radio station is owned by two corporate power houses so there is no integrity and very little quality on the dial anymore. I'd bring a boombox in the back seat in your case..hehehe


-B

 

Frame on ... I guess it is.

The car is rare enough that it should be worth more 100% stock. If I can find a correct rollcage, I will put that in as well. With my car, it is important to document how it was optioned since all Players cars were equally optioned.

I don't know if it will ever be worth much, but since parts and information is currently available, it is a fun project to do.

Documenting the history is the best part. PErsonally, I would like to see a book that listed all the correct ways the car came from the factory. Paint codes, markings, wire routing, etc. Granted it would not be a number one selling book.

Mark.

 

I did just pick up a book from 2000 called '75 years of Pontiac'.
I'll submit some details from that later this weekend. It is worth looking for but neglects some info found here. It has a section on Firebirds and Trans Ams and a sidebar on Smokey and the Bandit!!
That makes for a good book!

Bill

 

When I picked up my 1987 Trans-AM WS6 car it needed a new interior (mostly) a few mechanical items and almost no bodywork. I will need to do new paint on it eventually but the paint isn't that bad right now.

I am restoring it to original for the most part. I plan on changing to fourth gen leather and doing major drive train upgrades. So I guess I am inbetween on restoring my car and customizing.

I am going to keep it looking stock on the outside, paint and all. The interior is just getting the updated seats. I have changed the stereo because not having a CD player sucks. But the weak 305 has to go.

Really the only car I would just restore and drive as is would be the 1982 black and gold TA or Recaro TA if I found one for the right price that didn't need to much. I would like to have one of those "as is".

that's my $0.02.

 

My 88 convertible is being completely customized...
superram 355, 88 GTA rear end, 4th gen interior, custom paint, etc...

However I plan on restoring a 91 Z28 convertible in the near future. Got a thing for 'verts.

 

I have owned two Fiero`s and what I found while owning them is without the websites and other owners most of them would not be on the road just because of the little things you can`t get like brake hoses. I had a rear one collapse and had to find some sort of replacement as no one makes them without other peoples help I probably would have trashed the car because of that.There is very little if any aftermarket support for those cars so the few sources there are get passed from owner to owner with the car.
OH and for whoever made the comment about the good year that was 88 it had a lotus designed suspension until GM killed it mid-year.The other years used Chevette front end peices in the front and Citation front end in the back and for being parts off of two p.o.s cars they seemed to work quite well on mine.

 

I was looking at things like the Celebrity circa 1985 when first car shopping and infact, the Fiero was on my short list for first car choices, however I got an earload about that engine... much akin to the porsche 914 or 944 (the cheap version in the same style, although I can only think of the 928 right now hehe)

The 1988 I think you mention as the last year, a notchback restyle...Those aren't too rare around here but they all look mint.
That being said, well OT, here's the book I got this week when
I stopped by the Library... thought I'd look for the twin turbo bird GM made. No luck just yet. This is a REAL good one though -=>

BILL

 

The four cylinders just plain suck and if you get a v-6 car make sure to change the injector o-rings as they are the cause of the fire problems on the v-6.

 

I am still in the process of restoring my 89 that I found under a tree. I found this thing under a tree with the top end of the engine torn out, interior is so-so, 161k, and the paint looks like Maaco did it. My dad and I have made this our project and we started by yanking the L03 and rebuilding it. Yes that's right, no 350 swap or any of that crap. The only thing we did to it was bore it 30 over. The engine and engine bay look just as it did 15 years ago. I am starting on the interior, new seat covers, carpet, and door panels (amazingly there was a new headliner in it when I bought it). I did put on '91 Z29 16" rims on it instead of keeping the 15's. Then I'll do exhaust and if the funds allow, a new paint job. We have put a lot of time in this car and probably about $3g's including the $800 purchase price. It is getting to be a very nice ride. I feel the 3rdgens will be coming up in price real soon because so many are neglected and trashy. The nice ones will get the cash. Look at the second gens. Can't really get a good one for under 5g's now. This is my 4th in 13 years and I don't think I'll stop anytime soon.

Thought i'd add the link to the pics:
http://www.fbody.com/members/3rdgenstm

 

I think it all comes down to what a prime specimen is worth. Example:

My first car was a 1991 Camaro RS , LO3, tilt, cassette, and the 16" wheels were the only options--no a/c, manual windows, manual trans, base interior, no t-tops, no defroster, etc. When I bought it in 1996 it was pretty clapped out already. When I sold it in 1997 I got $3500, then bought a 1991 Z28 in showroom shape (literally), with every option except: leather, CD, & B2L. The guy had it stored, and decided to sell it to help pay for his 1969 Camaro resto. For this car I paid $8900. Even if you ignore the option level difference of both Camaros, for the $5400 difference there is absolutely no way I could have ended up with the RS in showroom condition had I kept it. I don't think I'd have ended up with the RS in showroom shape if I had spent $10,000 restoring it.

I think this is why cars get restored--unless the car has a TON of sentimental value, no one is going to restore a car if they can get a nice one for less than the cost of a proper resto.

Also, out of all of the 1st and 2nd gens everyone has seen here, how many are PROPERLY restored? For every concours quality 1st gen I see, there's 15-20 or so that range from incomplete/incorrect to just plain patchy garbage--& they still go for a lot of money because there are so few.
Plus, I have yet to see a 1975-1981 pure restoration. I'm not saying later 2nd gens haven't been done this way, but if I were to go through the trouble of restoring, say, a 1976 TA SD 455, I would not waste my time rebuilding it back to its 7.6:1 180 hp. bead-type catalyst single exhaust 'glory'. (I like it to look factory, but thats where I draw the line). I use this example because some 3rd gens are equally lethargic--heck, my LB9 Z28 probably only runs a 15.5 sec. 1/4 mile. My point--if you had to choose between two new condition cars--the first is a 1000 pt. 307/powerglide 1969 camaro, the other was 69 in identical condition but with a non-numbers matching 427/4 spd. which would be worth more to you? I think when the time comes for the thirdgens it will be a similar scenario--good or bad, 1000 pt. LG4's won't be common.

 

Forgot to mention--I didn't think less of the RS because it was an RS--I would have been happy with it and would still own it if it had been cost effective. I'm not a fan of 305's but I got another because all the B2L cars around at the time weren't in as nice shape.

I do have a 1991 T/A convertible and am debating whether to keep & go through it or just sell, however. The level of detail I'd consider would be like the guys at thirdgenresource did with their 91 Z28 convertible, & thats kind of a daunting task I'm not sure I'm ready for(labor wise or financially).

Sure would be nice tho

 

I feel the same as fast sports cars are only typically restored if they number very low. Otherwise you want a custom touch car with a little added show'n'go

I've had my engine steamcleaned and it still looked poor so something else, like a resto in the engine bay would be needed. There are spots of rust on the firewall which is a pain to fix.


Another post I tried to reply to was not working so for the record...

RE: convertible top replacement...
The interior shop in my town that did work for me on my Caddy, they mentioned $525 to do the top in the winter and $625 during the summer which sees a busier schedule.

Bill

 

i got my 83 z28 in good condition, motor only needed a few seals replaced and the throttle bodies rebuilt... interior was good (no rips) and the body was straight with a couple little door dings... just needed some small things to be factory original shape..

but yet, i still pulled the old crossfire engine and dropped in a small block 400 in a quest for power... its gonna be tough keeping everything on the car unmolested that doesnt just bolt on like an engine, tranny, and rear end... but i figure some day crossfire injected cars will be rare so i should keep it where i can restore it.... once the need comes for a roll cage, ill probably swap my drivetrain into the slightly less appealing 84 z28 chassis i got and put the crossfire one back together

then again i might just say screw it and go all out and then regret it while driving my mom's perfectly restored 68 firebird 400 when i inherit it


i figure itll be a while before some of the more common third gens are desirable as factory original 100% restored cars... there really are only a handful of cars that it would be profitable to keep stock right now... (82 pace car, TTA, etc)

 

As far as im concerned, restoration should only be done if you truly love a car (like my bird). It is not a sound financial idea at all. And really, even in 20 years, who's going to want a car with the stock 305 in it? I still payed some decent money for my Chevelle, which is far from stock. And still plan on modding the hell out of it. I think it would be money well spent to buy a camaro/firebird in good shape, make sure its got decent paint on it, keep it well maintained, and upgrade the performance as much as fits your needs. Sure, you could make money by totally restoring that camaro in the driveway, but if youre only in it for the money, you could take the money you spend on restoration, invest it wisely (mutual funds, stocks, etc.) and come out far ahead.

 

What I'm slowing doing with mine may not be a "resoration" as such since.. I am not reverting it back to the way "this" car came from the factory.. But everything I am doing is a factory option ie. Power windows, luxury package, OEM CD Head unit (v.s. cassette), I think the leather steering wheel, and shifter **** came with the Luxury option (right?) .. (with the exepction of the cat-back & Dual snorkle intake).

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not investing a ton of money in it. I am not doing a true, full- bore restoration of concours quality. It is more of just making it look better and truer to the factory original. For example, instead of an aftermarket radio, I found a used Delco unit on Ebay for 10 bucks. I found used armrests for $15. That is the type of thing I am doing. I know I would never get any big time money out of the car in the near future and I don't think I am putting it in either. I absolutely love working on the car and figuring out where to buy parts and how to make the broken things work. The money doesn't really matter to me; it is something my dad and I do to spend time together.

 

In that case, great idea, and I hope it turns out well.