Tongi

On kizz's website he says that you need to have AQ9 code for Recaro T/A's.Since his page is dedicated to 82 T/A's i'm not sure if that applies for 83-84 Recaros.I have a 84 Recaro but i was never 100% sure about it because i never had the RPO codes.Tonight i checked my cowl plate and found the AQ9 code and i wanna make sure this time.Any info appreciated.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Yes. 82, 83, and 84...

Tongi

Thanks for the info.Now i'm compeletly sure that i have true Recaro T/A.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

If you have a cowl plate with AQ9 then yes you do. Congrats!

90TA

Sorry. If you want to be 100% sure, you will have to check with PHS and find out if you have Y84. Only for 1982 did AQ9 have the single distinction for Recaro seats. '83 and'84, it was for the Lear Siegler and the Recaro seats.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Yes but have you seen the pictures of his car? Sure looks like a Recaro to me...

90TA

It is hard to see the interior in the pics in the reader's rides. It is also hard to tell if it has T-Tops. The car shouldn't have front grills, and the tail lights don't look right. Are there some better pics elsewhere of the car?

Tongi

The car had an accident from front and rear.The rear hatch is also changed.From the day i've got the car i'm trying to solve this mistery.The car has t-tops, front-rear sway bars, posi, HO engine, rear disk brakes, 15" wheels everything recaro should have is there i was almost sure that my car was a recaro even without that code.But yesterday somebody mailed about my car i checked that code and found it on the cowl plate.My recaro seats shows the age of the car and not in very pretty condition.I have some interior pictures but since the seats are in bad condition i have covers on them.But i'll post them anyway.Any input is welcome.

90TA

Everything seems to be correct. But with the seat covers and the angle the pics were taken, still couldn't give you a definite answer. Since you don't have the RPO label, you would have to check PHS for Y84 to be 100% sure. Nice car.

Tongi

Are you sure PHS keeps the track of RPO cars below 90?I've never tried but from what i know you can't get the codes from the dealers for the cars below 90.The seats and everything inside is identical to other 84 recaro pictures that i saw.I don't have any of the original stickers, sail birds, hub caps etc.The car was cheap.I was looking for 82-84 T/A with cowl induction hood and came across this one.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Yes PHS can verify that your ride is indeed a real Recaro Trans Am. I had them do research on my old 84 15th. PHS can't give you all of your cars RPO codes, only the RPO that were options installed on your car and Recaro's would be one of them.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Where did you get that? That's wrong info. These are the cowl plate codes:

Viscount 1982 "AR9"
Recaro 82-84 "AQ9"
budget seats 82-84 "AS9"
Lear-Seigler 83-83 or 83-84 "AR9"
Recaro seats 85-86 "AS5"

I listed Lear-seigler as 83-83 or 83-84 because I don't know when they were discontinued. But ALL Recaro edition cars got AQ9. This includes:

82 Recaro
83 Recaro
84 Recaro
83 Daytona Pace car
84 15th Anniversary

I have cowl plates to prove it. Now, whether or not the seats were removed, that's a different matter alltogether. A Recaro T/A without Recaro seats is kind of like a Picasso that's a blank page never touched, so Y84/AQ9 doesn't mean a whole lot if a car's seats are gone. It's hard to tell in those pics what those are since they're covered. The lucky few 85-86 T/A's with recaro seats (optional but extremely rare) carry the code AS5. Actually as luck would have it, the cowl plate was discontinued after 85 so 86 never got it, but I do have an 85 cowl plate photo showing AS5. thanks to Don B.

T-tops were mandatory on 82-83 Recaro but they were optional on 84 Recaro. So if you see a hardtop 84 Recaro, it is legitimate.

Hope this helps, .. happy new year!

GT

Tongi

Thanks for the info on the cowl plate kizz.Yes i do have the the recaro seats.Few months ago i posted the pictures of the car on your website and i asked about restoring the seats.The seats are in pretty bad condition and ripped off from edges so i didn't want to destroy them tottally.The covers are not for the looks it's for protecting the seats.I'll take some pictures without the covers if you want to see them.

Tongi

Here's another interior shot'.Still my seats have covers on them but you can see my matching back seat.Because of the high leg and back support of the recaro seats the covers didn't fit very well you can see it clearly from the picture also.

90TA

There is nothing wrong with the info in my statement. As I said,

"Only for 1982 did AQ9 have the single distinction for Recaro seats."
'83 and'84, it was for the Lear Siegler and the Recaro seats.

I know '85 and '86 had AS5 alone for Recaro seats and Lear Sieglers alone had AQ9

Any Pontiac dealer info will tell you the same, whether it is an order sheet or dealer album.
The cowl plate and RPO label on my '84 TA that I have had since I ordered it with Lear Siegler seats will tell you the same.
My '84 build sheet will tell you the same.

Though I don't have a scan of my plate, label or build sheet to post, if you have any doubt, here is a link to a '83 build sheet that has AQ9 listed the same as mine, as Lear Siegler.

http://www.snock.net/~snock/83ta.jpg

Cowl plate codes are not going to be different than the RPO codes.

T-tops were mandatory on 82-83 Recaro but they were optional on 84 Recaro. So if you see a hardtop 84 Recaro, it is legitimate.

Pontiac info lists T-Tops as included with the '84 Recaro Package. I know the '83 Daytona lists it as optional.

Tongi

I'm in touch with another person who has two 84 Recaros.I sent him my codes that i have on my cowl plate.He says that the code 2FS87 which i have it on my plate is for Firebird base models and all recaros has that code on the cowl plate.But on the other hand VIN has W as a fifth digit which is a code for Trans-Am on all Recaros.Which i have it on my VIN too.So that's another sign that i have a true recaro.That's sweet.

90TA

The "2FS87" on the cowl plate is the designation for the Firebird Series. All Firebirds, Trans Am's and SE have the same on the cowl plate '82-'85.

On the VIN, the "W" only signifies that it is a Trans Am.

2FS87 = Firebird Series

All Firebird = S87
All SE = X87
All Trans Am = W87

All Trans Am's will have "2FS87" on the cowl plate and a "W" in the VIN whether it is a Recaro or not.

Tongi

I'm restoring the car even if it's not recaro but i think getting some info from PHS will be helpful.Too bad they don't have online application.I'll have to fax or mail it.Also the guy that i'm in contact with says AQ9 could be anything.It's a code for luxury seats i guess.I also have W62 code on my cowl plate it's a code for ground effects and it's included in the recaro package.He says he doesn't have that on his recaros.Maybe it's a regular black-gold T/A with 305 HO, 4bbl, sway bars,rear disk brakes, posi, quick steering wheel, recaro seats, 15" wheels.But it's not logical.If i'm gonna get all those stuff why not simply order a recaro edition.If this car is recaro i wouldn't be suprised but i'm not expecting to make profit anyway.I like the car and it's a car that i wanted to own for years.It's value won't change with that.Still i really like this process and i'm curious about it.I guess that's another thing i like with f-bodies.

90TA

I commend you for restoring a car that well deserves restoring. Knowing it's history is part of that and you will find it interesting. Everything you have listed on the car was on the '84 Recaro. Since the car had been in an accident, things could have been changed. Finding out what the RPO codes on the car are, since the label is missing is that one key piece of evidence that will remove all doubt. It will be nice to know, with out a doubt, that you have 1 of 1321(?).

For an '84, AQ9 were the Luxury Lear Seigler Camel Tan Leather/Pallex cloth seats along with the same color/material Recaro seats, the rear seats were the same for both.

The W62 is the correct aero package code. It may not be on your friend Recaro's because Van Nuys and Norwood cowl plates had different info. What year Recaro's does he have?

Keep posting any questions you may have about the car, and good luck with the restoration.

Tongi

So why they have other codes for trans-am and s/e?After 85 they don't have cowl plate.They should be using them somewhere if the codes does exist.

2FS87 Firebird Base Model (Trans Am is 2FW87 and S/E is 2FX87.Interestingly, the Recaros and the 15th Ann. Edition have the FS code on the cowl plate, not the FW code as one might expect. However, the VIN number for all my vehicles has W as the 5th code which indicates Trans AM. Check yourcar.)

That's what the guy wrote me.He owns two '84 recaros and 15th ann. edition.His e-mail is pretty long and detailed.He found me from the boards i guess.I'm just wondering if it's possible to order recaro seats without ordering the complete package between 82-84.

Tongi

more pictures.many stuff is restored since then.But i didn't fix the body yet.

90TA

So why they have other codes for trans-am and s/e?After 85 they don't have cowl plate.They should be using them somewhere if the codes does exist.

All Firebirds, Trans Am's and SE have the same 2FS87 on the cowl plate '82-'85.
2FS87 is also on the build sheets.

'82-'84
2FS87 = Firebird = VIN 1G2AS87
2FS87 + RPO W69 = SE = VIN 1G2AX87
2FS87 + RPO WS4 = Trans Am = VIN 1G2AW87

'85- ? (the "87" in the VIN was changed later years, my '90 TA is 1G2FW23)
2FS87 = Firebird = VIN 1G2FS87
2FS87 + RPO W69 = SE = VIN 1G2FX87 ('85-'86)
2FS87 + RPO WS4 = Trans Am = VIN 1G2FW87

I'm just wondering if it's possible to order recaro seats without ordering the complete package between 82-84.

Mecham TA's were another package that they were available on.

Does your car have the outside "Recaro TA" door handles?

Tongi

I don't have any of these indicating that it's a recaro.No gold sail birs, no gold hub caps,no black-out rear stop light with gold bird,no recaro door handles.The only recaro sign that i have is on the seats and they're silver on black plate.In the pictures it doesn't show but the car not in a very good condition.I wouldn't call it junk but it's not too good either.It still needs lot's of cosmetic work.But engine drivetrain everything is pretty good.And i didn't had too much problems.Simple electrical stuff so far.No smoke no leak yet.I guess something wrong with tranny but i didn't check it yet and it doesn't effect my driving.It's just an annoying buzzing sound coming from the tranny when the car is cold.I'm gonna change the tranny down the road.Just rolled 260.000 km.(canadian).Mecham T/A's were not factory models if i'm not mistaken.Seats and other options were installed by Mecham

I don't have WS4 on my cowl plate.But my VIN starts with 1G2AW87.

90TA

No they weren't factory models, but they were Pontiac authorized and promoted.

Tongi

But they were not installed at the factory.But still is it possible to order recaro seats without the recaro option in 82-84.I never saw a T/A with recaro seats that wasn't recaro edition between 82-84 so i believe seats doesn't come without the whole option.Can anyone confirm this?

90TA

No.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Sorry but whoever told you that is wrong, simple as that. Even if it was Pontiac. I have personally seen a hardtop 84 Recaro, and I know for a fact that t-tops were optional on those cars, not mandatory. The price of the t-tops was excluded from the Recaro Edition package for 84, and so the 84 Recaro was also the cheapest, among 82-84 Recaros.

Since you were wrong on that, I don't really know if your AQ9 info can be trusted either. Can it be verified? I'm familiar with Snock's build sheet. I've got it saved on my hard drive. I'm more inclined to think that any mention of 83+ Firebird L/S seats being AQ9 is the result of a snowball effect of wrong info handed out within Pontiac, and should've been AR9. Even stamped cowl plates could be wrong. Can anyone rule it out? Didn't think so. Just think about this for a sec: Does it make any sense whatsoever to have TWO completely different items sharing the SAME RPO during the SAME model year? Nope. OK well, it's a fact that Viscount seats (1982 AR9) were discontinued after 1982, possibly making it into a few extremely early 1983 cars as some people would swear, though I have seen zero proof. So my thinking is that since the Viscount seat code (AR9) was freed up for 1983, that's what the code should be for L/S seats in 1983, and that's what I've seen before. It's a fact that 1983 Recaro seats (Recaro edition, and Daytona 500 pace car) were AQ9. From that point forward, it's anyone's guess. It makes no sense to name 2 seats by one code. If you can think of any instance where two items share the same RPO code during the same model year on the same car line, and why that would make any sense at all, then I would reconsider my opinion. Till then, I'm not convinced. It's not the first or last time GM has made widespread errors in details that people never notice except us, heh.

Another example: Pontiac also lists T-tops under "Available Options" on their original Daytona 500 Pace Car order sheet. Now who in their right mind would believe that crap?! Fact is, ALL Daytonas had T-tops mandatory. GM makes mistakes all the time, that's all I'm saying. You cannot trust their documents like they are the Holy Grail

GT

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Hardtop 84 Recaro. Not the best angle, but you get the idea.

90TA

WARNING: LENGTHY POST

Originally posted by 90TA
Pontiac info lists T-Tops as included with the '84 Recaro Package.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kizz
Sorry but whoever told you that is wrong, simple as that. Even if it was Pontiac. I have personally seen a hardtop 84 Recaro, and I know for a fact that t-tops were optional on those cars, not mandatory. The price of the t-tops was excluded from the Recaro Edition package for 84, and so the 84 Recaro was also the cheapest, among 82-84 Recaros.[QUOTE]

So you are saying that ALL of Pontiacs documentation in incorrect.

Pontiacs 1984 dealer albums and order sheets list:

Y84 - Special Edition (Recaro) Trans Am package includes:
camel tan interior with leather Recaro bucket seats
black exterior
aero package
hatch roofs
gold high-tech wheels
Delco-GM ETR AM /FM stereo radio
hood applique and black with gold pin striping.
(Available with 5.0 liter L69 engine only.)

Of course the package cost less, because there was less standard in the package than the '82 & '83 Recaro. What do you see that was excluded in the '84 package, that was standard with '82 &'83?


Pontiacs 1984 Option Price List:

CC1 Hatch Roof - NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE W/Y84

I have listed 3 sources where you can look that say the same thing, but you would say all 3 are wrong?

Just because YOU have seen a t-topless '84 with Recaro seats and possibly AQ9 on the cowl plate, what documentation do you have that the seats were not swapped. Do you have a copy of the build sheet or RPO label, any PHS documentation, or even a link to prove what you say? Let's see it. If that picture that you posted is all you have, it proves abolutely zip, zero, nada. Oh, but we should take your word for it, that it is, what you say it is. As you would say, "I don't think so."

Since you were wrong on that, I don't really know if your AQ9 info can be trusted either. Can it be verified? I'm familiar with Snock's build sheet. I've got it saved on my hard drive.

Gee, why don't you see if Snock has a picture of his cowl tag, and have HIM post it, since his '83 build sheet that clearly shows AQ9 Lear Seigler on it as does my '84, must be a mistake that Pontiac made for at least 2 years. Wonder how that could ever happen?

I'm more inclined to think that any mention of 83+ Firebird L/S seats being AQ9 is the result of a snowball effect of wrong info handed out within Pontiac, and should've been AR9. Even stamped cowl plates could be wrong. Can anyone rule it out? Didn't think so. Just think about this for a sec: Does it make any sense whatsoever to have TWO completely different items sharing the SAME RPO during the SAME model year? Nope. OK well, it's a fact that Viscount seats (1982 AR9) were discontinued after 1982, possibly making it into a few extremely early 1983 cars as some people would swear, though I have seen zero proof. So my thinking is that since the Viscount seat code (AR9) was freed up for 1983, that's what the code should be for L/S seats in 1983, and that's what I've seen before. It's a fact that 1983 Recaro seats (Recaro edition, and Daytona 500 pace car) were AQ9. From that point forward, it's anyone's guess. It makes no sense to name 2 seats by one code. If you can think of any instance where two items share the same RPO code during the same model year on the same car line, and why that would make any sense at all, then I would reconsider my opinion. Till then, I'm not convinced. It's not the first or last time GM has made widespread errors in details that people never notice except us, heh.

One problem you have, is drawing conclusions and assumptions, when you do not have all of the information, and stating them as facts. As far as the seat codes go, there were only 2 for the years in question. AR9 and AQ9. The AS9 that mentioned in a previous post is wrong, because we are talking about Firebirds, not Corvettes. The information you do not have or know about is that there are more than one design and trim level code to go with each. You will need another RPO code to distinguish them.

Example for '84:
Standard Reclining Bucket Seats = AR9 - Design 1
Standard Custom Seats = AR9 - Design 2
Lear Siegler Adjustable Custom Bucket Seats = AQ9 - Design 1
Lear Siegler Adjustable Luxury Bucket Seats = AQ9 - Design 2
Recaro Special Edition Bucket Seats = AQ9 - Design 3 - These are the ones you will find in the Recaro Edition.
Recaro Special Edition Bucket Seats = AQ9 - Design 4 - These are the ones you will find in the 15th anniversary.

Now you take Snocks build sheet, it lists AQ9 Lear Seigler and 642 Trim.

AQ9 Lear Seigler +
642 Doeskin Luxury Le =
AQ9 Lear Seigler Adjustable Luxury Bucket Seats - Doeskin Sierra Leather/Pallex Cloth

One code alone does not distinguish without another. The same with the seats in the Recaro Edition and the 15th Anniversary. Yes, they are both Recaro seats, but each has another code to distinguish the two because both are different.

Another example, take N89 or N24 for example. Can you distinguish if they are 14" or 15", silver or gold rims, without another RPO code. No you can't.



Wrong again. Where do you get your information. Post it. Because you have never seen one. There was one on eBay last year with all of the documentation. I may have a pic somewhere, but in the meantime, one of Pontiacs Bulletins lists:

CAR DISTRIBUTION BULLETIN
PONTIAC

Subject: 1983 DAYTONA 500 25th ANNIVERSARY LIMITED EDITION
83 - F - 6
TRANS AM PRICES AND STANDARD FEATURES November 3, 1982

List - $6,450.00
Dealer Net - $5,289.00
Dealer Invoice - $5,482.00

Y82 Limited Edition Trans Am Package
Consists of the following standard features:
Special Mid-body Two-tone Paint (white upper, dark sand gray metallic lower)
White Aero Cast Aluminum Wheels
Red I/P Lighting

Custom interior
Consists of:
Luxury Recaro Seats, Front w/Leather, Suede and Cloth Trim
Luxury Rear Seats Deluxe Seat Belts Map Pocket
Luxury Doors
Split Folding Rear Seat

Aero Package
Consists of:
Rocker Panel Extensions
Front and Rear Fascia Extensions Air Dam
Rocker Fences
Grille Pads Power

Door Locks Power Windows
Custom Air Conditioning
Soft Ray Glass, All Windows
Deck Lid Release, remote control
Electric Rear Window Defogger
Cruise Control w/Resume Speed
Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel
Tilt Steering Wheel
AM/FM ETR Stereo with Cassette, Seek & Scan, Graphic Equalizer and Clock
Automatic Power Antenna

Lamp Group
Consists of:
Luggage Compartment Lamp I/P Courtesy Lamp
Tone Generator Chime
Headlamp "ON" Warning System
Dome Reading Lamp

Controlled Cycle Windshield Wipers
Luggage Compartment Trim
Power LH and RH Sport Mirrors
Locking Fuel Filler Door
Hood Applique
Additional Acoustical Insulation
Front Carpeted Mats "Daytona 500"
Rear Carpeted Mats "Daytona 500"

Special Performance Package
Consists of:
215/65R]5 Black Wall Steel Belted Radial Tires Special Handling Package
Limited Slip Differential Axle
Front and Rear Power Disc Brakes


The following options are available with the Y82 package at the current published option prices:
Heavy Duty Battery
California Emissions Requirements
Cargo Security Screen
Heavy Duty 85 Amp. Generator
Removable Hatch Roof
RH Visor Vanity Mirror
Heavy Duty Radiator
Silver Finned Turbo Cast Aluminum Wheels
Wheel Locking Package

PLEASE BE SURE TO FILE IN YOUR "PONTIAC PRODUCT MANUAL" FOR FUTURE REFERENCE
PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION-GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION

Since that probably isn't enough for you, here is a link to a Daytona order sheet. Still not good enough for you?
Let's see what you have to the contrary.

http://www.geocities.com/ramairta2002/83ads.html

Tongi

Well the thing that you've posted is about '83DAYTONA 500 25th ANNIVERSARY LIMITED EDITION but we're talking about 84 RECARO here.And he stated that he saw 84 recaro with hard top.So your post doesn't make any sense to me.But maybe what you said is true for 83 recaros or ann. editions.For almost one year i've been reading kizz's posts and he's rarely wrong on thirdgen's and he's NEVER wrong about recaro's.And after all those posts i'm sure that i have recaro edition and PHS is only gonna confirm what i'm thinking i guess.But for now it doesn't matter much i'm not gonna sell the car.But it's nice to know the history of my car.

Tongi

I don't know if the link that you gave is your site.But i've checked the site out and there are some mistakes.In 84 15th ann. page in the links below there are two recaro trans-am links for some pictures one is with the interior and the other is 84 2 page ad. from a magazine.Neither of them are Recaro T/A's.Just the interior shot is the correct one.

85 T/A WS6

"Just because YOU have seen a t-topless '84 with Recaro seats and possibly ..............., "I don't think so."


I will have state that I have seen and documented an 84 Recaro T/A WITHOUT the T-Tops.

At the time that these photos were taken I was more concerned about the details than the car as a whole so there is no overall shot showing a hardtop:

http://www.ohok.com/82recaro/message...ML/000037.html

The striping shown in the thread is an exclusive to this model. (Simular if not the same as the 84 Anni)

Thats what I was trying to document.

More important, this car is in the garage of the original owner who bought it off the lot (cancelled factory order, this model was rarely seen on the lot as new because they were made to order). He is a fellow parishoner at my church and a good friend.

I can take more pics to lay this to rest if you wish.

These debates are always of interest to me. One of the best ones I remember was the 86 Recaro power seat option. They were not supposed to exist but one was found in a barn.
All PMD documentation said the two could not co-exist (power seat and AS5)


https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ight=86+Recaro

Goofy things happen with these cars and its a learning process for us all.



Don

85 T/A WS6

84 Recaro CC1 plate:

kizz

iTrader: (1)

If Pontiac's documentation says that 84 Recaro had mandatory t-tops, then YES, I am saying it's wrong, totally wrong. I don't know why that's so hard to believe.

OK, what I see there is t-tops listed under Option, and apparently it says it's an option available at no extra change. How can it be an option AND be mandatory at the same time? That just proves my point. It's very common for a manufacturer to offer an automatic transmission as standard equipment and then a 5-speed manual transmission as "optional - no extra charge". Transmissions are just an example. Maybe that is what we have going on here, who knows. "Free t-tops for those who want them, but we won't force them on you". One thing's for sure. t-tops were not mandatory on 84 recaro.

Earth to 90TA, earth to 90TA. AS9 is a valid seat code for third gen Firebirds, at least early ones, like those we are talking about. It denotes the standard seats you got if you did not choose to get the optional seats. Have you ever seen Smokey and The Bandit Part Three, with the 82 Trans am and the budget seats? Those are AS9's.

Um, hellooooo, isn't that what I was saying in the first place? That sheet right there is the very same piece of information I was going on. It says that t-tops are an "Available Option" for an 83 Daytona. OK let's take this step by step, based on that order sheet: T-tops are an available Option on 83 Daytona. This means that some people will choose the available option, other people will choose NOT to get the available option. Those people who choose NOT to get it are NOT getting t-tops, so they are getting a hardtop. Are you with me so far? OK cool. So it implies that some 83 Daytonas will be hardtops. Now.. if you can show me ANY 83 Daytona hardtop that came that way from the factory, I'll cut you a $1000 check tonight and I'll mail it off tomorrow, just for making that new discovery. That document is WRONG. All 83 Daytona's got t-tops, every single one of them. Mandatory. That's the best way I know how to put it.

Which proves my point: GM makes mistakes. I don't trust their written information unless I can verify it in real life with REAL cars. I know dozens of people who swear on their mother's grave that Pontiac made 1983 Firebirds with Viscount bucket seats, but none of them can provide a shred of evidence, like a build sheet. And you didn't answer my question which was: can you think of any situation where on the SAME car, SAME model year, SAME assembly line, there are TWO items with the SAME RPO? I don't think that has ever happened.

Maybe I'm wrong and L/S 83 was AQ9, but if that was true, it would be the ONLY occurrence I know of where two seats during the same year, same car line had the same code. It would be completely illogical. There is NOTHING shared between the Recaro seat and the Lear Seigler seat. It's like saying "Here we have Firebird #1, and here we have Firebird #2, except that Firebird #2 is a Yugo". I showed you some proof with that hardtop 84 Recaro photo, and 85 T/A WS6 backed me up on it with more of his own. maybe we're both conspiring against you for some unknown reason? Or maybe Pontiac makes mistakes. Let's some proof of your claims and I'll shut up I don't consider Pontiac Bulletins "proof". They're not infallible.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

1982 AS9 in a "stripper" Red Trans Am

Tongi

My plate is a little bit different.I have E02B, CC1, 2FS87, AQ9, 19L, W62 and there's that 6-7 digit code which is a part of your VIN.The strange thing about my plate is that i have the aero package code (W62) on the plate.The guy that mailed me about my car told me that he has two '84 recaro's and neither of them had this code listed and aero package was included in the recaro package.

90TA

One quick note for Tongi:
List all of the info that is on your cowl plate from top to bottom. You don't have to list the last 6 numbers on the top line if you don't want to, but at least up to and including the "L" or "N".


Don and Kizz:
Will be replying to your posts later today or Tuesday, as time at the moment doesn't permit the lengthy post that it is going to be.

Tongi

I've checked my cowl plate again.There are more codes on my plate then the picture Don posted.So here it goes;

E02B - 2FS87 - N 225062
19L - 19U - ENAMEL
643 - AQ9 - CC1 - W62
080 - 090437 - 121786

Maybe the diffrence between cowl tags is because of the factory that they were built.Mine is Norwood and the other is Van Nuys.Anyway so far the codes that i know are;

E02B: Build date 1984 Feb 2nd week
2FS87: Firebird Base Model
N: Norwood
225062: Last 6 digit of the VIN (which is correct)
19L: Secondary color, exterior, lamp black (which all recaros had.Other 84 t/a had gold as secondary color if i'm not mistaken)
19U: Primary color, exterior, lamp black
643: Trim combination, leather, Lt Beige (recaro's interior color)
AQ9: Seat, Front bucket pass driver RECL (My guess RECL means Recaro Leather but i might be wrong)
CC1: Roof hatch, removable panels, glass
W62: Aero package

Let me know if there are any mistakes.

90TA

Quick note to Tongi:

Too bad you didn't post all of the info on your cowl tag before, but then Kizz wouldn't have the info he is going to get.

AQ9 - Seat, Front bucket pass driver RECL(RECL = Reclining)

Now the 643 is the RPO code that verifies that it is a Recaro Edition, not the AQ9 RPO code alone . More info on that in my later reply to Don and Kizz.

19U - Primary Color, Black
19L - Secondary Color, Black

Even the Black and Gold had the same 19U - 19L, some had 55M for the Lower Gold Accent on the cowl plate.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

You're exactly right. The 2 factories used slightly different codes on the cowl plate. I believe Norwood also listed "WS4" on NON-Recaro T/A cowl plates, while Van Nuys never listed it. "LU5" was always listed on Norwood LU5 Recaro, but never on Van Nuys LU5 Recaro. There is also the code D80 (rear spoiler) which I don't think I've seen on a Van nuys spoiler car but is common on Norwood spoiler cars. There are other differences, sometimes random. for example on black & gold cars, "55M" seems to be either there, or not be there. Seems random. I haven't seen a verifiable pattern but there could be one. Another example is that for Norwood sometimes it'll say "E", other times it will say "ENAMEL". This might be a year-sensitive difference. I think all 82's say "E" or "W" and from 83-85 "ENAMEL" or "WATER" but I am not sure.

There is also the lower left 6-digit code you have, which is Norwood specific. Van Nuys never had that code, but instead had apparently random combinations of the letters "D B W N S", always in that order, with random letters there and random letters missing. You can see Don's cowl plate picture above is "D blank blank blank S". Actually I'm sure they are not random, but I have never figured out any patterns as to WTF they mean. Same with Norwood's equivalent code in that position, the 6-digit code.

The lower right 6-digit code is unrelated and it shows on both factory plates. I've heard it referred to as "Fisher body number", but that's so vague it's not too helpful.

Top right 6-digit code shows up on both factory plates and it is the sequence number; same as your VIN.

I'm curious to see if 90TA or anyone else can decode the lower left codes: "D B W N S" for Van Nuys or the Norwood equivalent code, in your case "090437"

Tongi

So i guess i can be 100% sure that i have a recaro edition t/a.But i'm still gonna get all the info from PHS.Thanks for all the info and the replys.That was a very educational process for me about 82-84 t/a's which is my favorite third gens.But just like the parts information on our cars are limited and GM's stupidity or errors whatever you want to call it makes it even more difficult for us to collect information which is very sad.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

PHS is not always reliable, but 99% of the time they are.

Before anyone blasts me, here's an error they made: A friend of mine sent off for PHS on his 1990 6000 SE AWD. They replied and claimed in a handwritten note that 5599 were made in 1990. This isn't even close to right. The real figure is about 1700 for 1988-1990 TOTAL, by most owners' educated estimates. 1988 got 128 of them, 1989 got the biggest chunk, and 1990 got way less than 1000.

Even still, the $35 is well worth it, so I suggest you do it. On a car-by-car basis they don't make mistakes because all they're providiing is original GM documents. If the documents themselves happen to have errors, that's not PHS's fault. Go for it,

GT

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Recaro Trans-AM's were produced from 1982-1984. One could still order recaro seats until 1986. And yes you could infact get Recaro seats without the recaro TA package.

Tongi

You can order recaro seats between 85-86 but they didn't had recaro edition.But i've never seen a t/a between 82-84 with recaro seats that wasn't recaro edition or special edition (like 15th anniversary).Do you have any pictures or documents or did you see it yourself and are you sure those were installed by factory?