SuperchargedRS

I have been wondering this for a while. What is this car, and is it more powerfull than a iroc or z? what do they sell for??? just wondering thanks.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

F41 was a suspension upgrade option for the lower models. Nothing is better than Z28 (especially IROC-Z28) suspension.

Brett Gutshall

F41 included larger front and rear stabilizers and special front and rear shocks. It was not available on z28.

Chet

Also known as "stage 2" WS6 IIRC. On TA's you got a cool little performance suspension badge on the pass. side kick panel (ws6 got one too). One way to tell if you had f41(for ta's) was that u had the badge but only had 15 inch rims.

SuperchargedRS

Thanks, I've been wondering that for a while

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

F41 was an optional suspension on Sport Coupes and possibly other non-z28 models. In 86 it became standard on the Sport Coupes.

MdFormula350

thats cool so the lower models could have some form of ws6/irocz performance..

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't go that far. I've got one of each (F41, WS6 and an IROC) and trust me... the F41 is nothing special. The car handles somewhat better than my 86 Firebird did (which didn't have F41), but it's not really much different. The IROC and my GTA suspensions are a complete 180 from the F41.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

I have to strongly disagree. Maybe your F41 needed new bushings or something, that's why it didn't ride well? My 85 firebird (F41) and my 82 Trans Am (WS6) both have 32mm front sway bar, 21mm rear sway bar. Both have 15 inch wheels. Being that the 85 bird is lightweight and pretty much a stripper on power options, it handles even BETTER than the 82 Trans Am. My 85 is the tightest and stiffest thirdgen I've ridden in.

GT

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

re-read what I wrote. My F41 rode very well... it didn't handle well. It was a substantially more comfortable ride than my IROC and my GTA, but it had a ton more body roll and was sprung much more softly. The sway bars are half the size and the shocks/springs are much softer. It made a great daily driver because I didn't have to deal with the pounding that my other 2 cars give me, but it was no handling champion.

Maybe the F41 in the firebirds resulted in WS6 swaybars or at the very least something different than the Camaros got, but I can assure you that every base camaro from 86-92 certainly does NOT handle like a Z28 or an IROC.

avro206

Some 16" wheel cars got F41-- 91 Trans Am specifiacally. Oddly enough it has a WS6 badge inside.

Even more strange my IROC- originally equiped with 15" has FE2--up from F41

kizz

iTrader: (1)

If you mean "Performance Suspension" badge, F41 cars got that too.

Sounds like someone messed with yours after it left the factory. Mine had 32mm front, 21mm rear all its life. The WS6 of the same year, 1985, I believe was 36mm front, 24mm rear, or something very close to that. And like I said the WS6 of 1982 was the exact same setup as the F41/Y99 of 1985. both 32mm/21mm.

By "ride", I meant its handling characteristics in general. Like I said, it's STIFF.. if I wanted granny suspension, I would've gotten granny suspension. My F41 is probably about 200-300 pounds lighter than my WS6, and as such it takes the hairpin corners as well as, or better than, my WS6, and both are in 100% factory condition as far as the suspension setups.

I very highly recommend to everyone coming to Western NC and driving our mountain backroads to test the limits of your suspension and braking. Best driving you will ever find anywhere in North America. US-64, US-276, US-178, US-129, US-74A, US-221, NC-9, NC-215, NC-226, NC-226A, NC-151, just a small sampling. Pretty much no other cars on the road, awesome scenic views, hardly a straight stretch for more than a few yards, and of course.. no cops.

Matthew91-Z28

[quote]It made a great daily driver because I didn't have to deal with the pounding that my other 2 cars give me, but it was no handling champion. [quote]

No doubt!! There is a street here in fort worth that I never drive on because its all laid in brick. You drive a mile and have already ground your molars down. I did a suspension upgrade on my 91 Z28 to eibach springs. Everyday I want to call the city engineer and bitch about pot-holes etc. I never really knew how bad the streets arounds here sucked until then.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matthew91-Z28
[quote]It made a great daily driver because I didn't have to deal with the pounding that my other 2 cars give me, but it was no handling champion.

Quote:

No doubt!! There is a street here in fort worth that I never drive on because its all laid in brick. You drive a mile and have already ground your molars down. I did a suspension upgrade on my 91 Z28 to eibach springs. Everyday I want to call the city engineer and bitch about pot-holes etc. I never really knew how bad the streets arounds here sucked until then.

I lowered my IROC with Jamex springs. It's got way less body roll than my GTA, and will outhandle it to such an extent that you wouldn't believe it's the same platform. The funny thing is... it rides better too. My GTA is the worst riding car I've ever driven. All the Corvettes I test drove felt like a Deville compared to my GTA.
Maybe, but I doubt it. I've driven/ridden in plenty of other base-model Camaros and they all handled/rode similarly to mine.

Here's the information that I have on F41 vs. all other suspensions in 1985. I assume that it was the same for other years, but I have no verification of that

Front suspension:
On the L4, V6 and V8 models, the base front sway bar had a 27mm diameter. The F41 had a 30mm diameter and the IROC had a 32mm.
The spring rate for the L4 & V6 was 331.0 lb/inch. The spring rate for the V8 & F41 (including V6) was 365lb/inch. The Z28 spring rate was 548lb/inch.

Rear suspension:
V4, V6 and V8 all had an 18mm rear sway bar with F41. No info was listed for the non F41 cars, so I'll assume it was the same. The Z28 had a 23mm sway bar and the IROC had a 24mm sway bar.
The non-z28 cars had a rear spring rate of 103lbs/inch. The Z28s had a spring rate of 131.5lb/inch.

So what's all that crap mean? It means that the F41 had a front sway bar diameter smack in the middle of the base and Z28 sway bars. The F41 had springs that were barely stiffer than the base L4 and V6 springs, and nowhere near as stiff as the Z28 springs.

All in all... the F41 suspension was nowhere close to what came on the Z28 & IROC.

Oh yeah... the F41 used a steering box with a gear ratio of 14:1. The Z28 used a box with a 12.7:1 ratio. The base camaro used either a 15:1 or 13:1 ratio. It's unclear in the literature. It may have depended on what size motor it had.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

J85IROC is right, F41 is like mid-model suspension.

TA gal

OK,I own that 91TA that 871LEIroc is refering to.I have a badge inside that indicates"Performance Suspension".My rims are 16's and the centercaps say WS6 Performance Suspension.My RPO reads F41.What does it all mean.............????????????Confused in Canada(but thats not too hard to do).

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Theoretically there are 3 levels of thirdgen suspension. The first is your soft base suspension, second is the F41 package, and third is FE2. FE2 is commonly refered to as the Z28/WS6/GTA/IrocZ suspension. But... and here's where it gets interesting... Not all Z28's have FE2... Many have F41.

In my experiance F41 is a nice package, not too hard, not too soft, just right... FE2 is more rugged and is better for performance. Everything else is just a waste of time in a thirdgen.

Bandit400

I agree, F41 at least on the later third gens is a good setup.
A '91 Motor Trend test of an RS with F41 pulled .90 g.
My '92 (all stock with stock Eagle GA 235/55)with F41 holds the road VERY close to my '02 Firehawk which has much wider tires(275/40). THe RS is a little rougher but oh well...

All in all I'd say F41 is good. Been several years since I drove an FE2 car but the best I can remember they were a little bit harsh.

my .02

iroc22

Yeah that's what I thought too. It seemed in this thread that the common consensus was that the Z28 couldn't have F41...but I was sure it could.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Drew, do you have any additional information on that? All of my GM information specifically lists the F41 as available only on the non Z28 models.

Bandit400

I believe someone posted a list of RPOs within the last week or so of their Z28 and it had F41.

iroc22

I can go over to my buddys house this week and take a digital pic of his SPID and post it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Jim, as always I've got printed info to back me up. The problem is that I live in a slimy mudhole apt and the rest of my belongings are stored in two garages with my RS and the Formula. So finding things is a pain in the butt. Not to mention, my personal computer (which isn't connected to the internet anymore) is running Windows ME which has made it nearly useless. So a good 90% of the information that I've collected is locked up in a computer I can't access.

I know it sucks, but yes I'm sure F41 was the base suspension for the Z28. Maybe even the Iroc in 88-90, but I couldn't guarentee it. You'll just have to trust me on this one.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

It's not a matter of dis-trust. It's a matter of wanting that information.

I've got a ton of GM info on my 85, and at least in 85, I don't believe F41 was available on the Z28. The GM documents that I posted the above spring/sway bar info out of specifically list the F41 as separate from the Z28. Obviously this must have been different for other years, and I just wanted to see the info so that I could if/why/how and anything else that might apply.

TA gal

Hey,give Drew a break ok-----afterall-----he's livin in a cardboard box with pictures of the BacksteetBoys for wallpaper!(psttt only kidding thehehehe)

Ed Maher

Jim, F41 was absolutely available with Z28. My convertible is an F41 Z28. It has the same front springs ( IIRC ?XU front) springs as a F41 RS and NNL rear like the FE2 91/92 Z28s i've seen. Came with a 32mm hollow front sway bar, and a small rear, maybe 21.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

What I can say for sure is my 32mm/21mm F41 85 firebird (factory setup) and my 32mm/21mm WS6 82 trans am (factory setup) both are nice and stiff. I've ridden in FE2's and not seen much difference at all, though I know it's there. Like I said my 85 is also devoid of any really heavy options, except that it does have A/C, cruise, tilt. having the same general suspension being considerably lighter, it handles *better* than the WS6. I never claimed F41 was top-of-anything, I know it's a 2nd-tier option, I'm just saying WS6 got more refined around 84 - 85 and never looked back, so the earlier WS6 is roughly the equivalent of the later F41, and my cars seem to adhere to this theory of mine. whew.

Jim85 the main thing to remember is that Camaro F41 and Firebird F41 are not the same, so all those detailed specs may be helpful for Camaros, but they're not applicable to my cars.

gt

Matthew91-Z28

OK...now I am a little confused:: I have a 91 Z28 convertible and the RPO code lists my suspension as an F41. I've read all the info in prev. posts about the years Z28, IROC, and RS were in production. Does anyone have any idea what F41 signified in 91 when there were only Z28 and RS in production.

I was thinking about going to the pick and pull this w/e to grab the sway bars off a non-convertable Z28 w/ the FE2. Anyone know what size sway bars were used in 91 on F41 convertables??

Drew

iTrader: (58)

F41 in 91 was the mid level suspension (didn't I already explain this?) it was standard on all 16" wheel Camaro's, FE2 was optional. The sway bars and springs on an FE2 car are more in line with performance, but I don't think it would be worth the trouble, unless you're going for absolute performance.

Matthew91-Z28

Drew, I understood in a broad sense what F41 signified. But I had not read anything that really defined what size sway bars, springs, etc. that each option posessed. Jim had mentioned some measurements, but those were for years in which Z28, IROC, and RS were all three being produced (I think).

I am curious as to the specific measurements for the years when IROC was out of the picture. And at this point, the FE2 sway bars would definately be worth it; I installed Eibach prokit springs a few months ago. You know how it is: by replacing one old part with a newer better one, all the flaws in the related parts become really highlighted.

I know its not the best I can get, but it'll be pretty easy to find, it'll be cheap, and it will keep that rear in-line to a better degree thatn what I have now.

I guess I'll just find one with bigger sway bars than mine and just go with that.