whitecamrs

count me in for a set.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

This is exactly what I want

I just may have found a deal on a C4HD front brake setup and my C4HD conversion may be happening even sooner than planned. If I could get some drop spindles to work with too, that'd be awesome.

So these...drop the front of my car 2" without new springs? What if I buy these and a Pro Kit? Would that be a 3" drop? That'd be a bit too much for me I think. Then again...my stock springs have probably sagged a bit anyways..

vsixtoy

I positively want a set. I am planning on redoing my entire front suspension setup and these would greatly benefit the suspension geometry I am planning and working towards right now.

As A Note: Someone above mentioned they thought you need shorter shocks? No you don't. The advantage of drop spindles is that it lowers the car while MAINTAINING all of the other factory angles and hardware (that includes suspension travel). The Strut mounting pstition remains exactly the same distance from the top fender, only the spindle stud is moved upward.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Yes to all.


Ed

Xceleratemaro

count me in

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Hmm this just may work out for me. I'll have to do a bit more research first.

CrazyHawaiian

Yeah Dean is correct, you maintain the strut travel with the drop spindles. My Z28 is slammed but the struts dont have a problem bottoming out, kind of amazing actually. I do plan to do the C5 front brake conversion with these spindles, not sure when though. I'll be sure to get pics.

Dean, are you sure there are no performance downsides? Revlimit sold me these drop spindles because he said they caused an understeering problem with his car on the track (drifting). So I got em and decided to use them on my Z28 since I dont drive it as hard. I always wondered why.

vsixtoy

CH, the spindles will allow a drop in the front while retaining the facotry roll center. When you lower the rear of the car, the rear roll center goes down.

What this does is the imaginay line that connects the front and rear roll centers (Called the "roll axis") becomes more parallel to the ground. weight is transfered forward in motion of this line while braking. Just like the angle of the LCA's can do different things based on LCARB mount positions, the more parellel roll axis will not unload the rear weight forward in as much a steep angle which causes the rear of the car to lift under braking and unload. That unloading is what makes the car more loose(oversteer) going into a corner.

Through a corner, it will cause the outer rear tire to gain more traction than the inner front (Cross weight due to angle of roll) If one gets more weight, the cross wedge tire gets less).

Generally by lowering the rear roll center will stabilize these cars more neutral for grip through corners. V8's are notorious for understeer going into a corner to begin with so doing this will of course cause havoc to you drift guys. You're going to get more RW traction- just put a really big rear swaybar on there

mightymaro94

so will lowerin the rear of my car make my handling better? cause i am big on a well handlin car, that why we got the vettes, but i want the camaro to be just as well of a handlin car as the vettes

CrazyHawaiian

Thanks for explaining it Dean. Its a shame the mods keep banning you. There are not many people that will take the time out of their day to talk suspension tech (and actually know what they are talking about). Back to the books for me I guess ...

Souseless

I am absolutely interested in the spindles. Hell a used stock spindle is like $50 in the junkyard. I would be happy to pay $200 for a new set. I am not sure that I want to go that low but it might be ok with 800# springs in front. I autocross my car so I need to make sure that I wont bottom out when braking hard for a turn. This is a much better option than lowering with the springs

Dewey316

I would most def. be in for a set, assuming that they will work with my brake conversion, and price isn't too out of control.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, they should be to stock specs, but instead of the dust shield mounting holes, they should have those holes drilled and tapped, so we can use custom brake brackets like Ed's.

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

Well so far it seems as if we may have 17 who want Dropped Spindles. So far as I have it - as follows:

Acescarrs
Firedawg 225
Duron Clocker
Oil Pan 4
MikeB85TA
Cocacolakidd
See Ya
Tom P
Texas LT1
88 IROC ZZ4
OneBad Z4U
Scorpner
Whitecamrs
V6Toy
XCeleratemaro
Souseiess
Dewey 316

We may even add more as time goes on.

Called Alvin Rocha, Bell Tech Production Engineer, this morning (1-12-05) to inquire of any updates on Bell Tech p/n 2200 (Dropped Spindles)- He was out of his office, and will return a call later.


Found one other source for Dropped Spindles - This was SSBC, Stainless Steel Brakes Corp. They have a brake setup with 2" Dropped Spindles. The only problem with this setup is that it is single piston caliper and 10 1/2" rotor, with a Dropped Spindle...sounds like OEM brakes to me. They also stated they will not sell the spindles separately because to many are modifying the spindles for their own home brake projects. They would also not specify whether they were still selling this particular setup, without a direct order for the complete package. They only stated it was a backorder item.

I think they are Turkeys there at SSBC (Personal opinion).

I am going to keep on this, as my spare time allows, and hopefully this year we may see a return of Dropped Spindles for our 3rd. Gens.

If there is anyone that would like their name added, or deleated, please post - thanks.

Cocacolakidd

RTFC

Coca, You may want to explain to Belltech that the new trend for 3rdgens is going to coilover front setups. The problem with this is it will not work with the car lowered 2" because of the new mount position and added bracing to the fenderwells for the coilover setups. This would now be the hot ticket where in the past the need was not necessary for such a race or radical street performance setup.

Please delete Vsixtoy and replace that with RFTC for now Joke

Here's a picture showing the clearence problem with a severely lowered 3rd gen. The coilover plate mounts at the height of the top of the yellow strutbody. No room on this lowered setup for suspension travel if coilover setup was added. I need drop spindles.

VILeninDM

If you use these spindles, what springs should you go with? I was thinking of eibach sportlines, but if you get these, then only rear springs should be lowering, fronts are stock height. Is it important to make sure all 4 springs are matched in how much they compress per certain weight (what's the term here) ?

If I can still use them with C5 brakes, there is no spring issues and they go for $200-250, I'd go for a set.

tomclf

Add me for the spindle purchase

Avoided Z28

not trying to change your minds about spindles but I have put a front coilover kit on my car and I prefer it I had drop spindles and the problem was when I went from street to race wheels the ride height was different the coil overs make it so in 10 minutes I can completely changed the ride height to where ever I want it.

tomclf

What do you mean by race wheels though? Are you talking about after market wheels or weld wheels? The idea of coil overs is cool and I have been waiting for them to be made but it sounds like there may be other benefits to the drop spindles.

Avoided Z28

I went from a 18" IROC wheel to a 28" tall ET drag on drag lites. I think that a coilover kit give all the benifits of drop spindles with the option of perfect ride height in your own eyes. I would also like to say that my car is lowered almost 3" at the wheel opening I can send pic of the car to show how low it is

firedawg225

The reason for the drop spindle is to lower the car and correct the geometery of the front end.

tomclf

AvoidedZ28 - please show pics. By the way - where did you get your coil over kit?

Avoided Z28

mine came from Art Morrison also I am not sure how to post pics So I will email them to someone here and they can post them.


Art Morrison

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

UP-Date!!

Just hung up the phone with Alvin Rocha - Bell Tech Production Engineer - The 2" Dropped Spindles, Bell Tech p/n 2200, is going back into production...

Repeat - They will soon be in production.

They have two castings in hand now, and have set times in late February for more castings. These castings will be routed in with other production items, on the machines that use close to the same set-ups. This way they can run them in batches of 50 pairs instead of their usual larger quantities. This is going to make them less costly for us, the end user. I'm still hoping that they will be under $400.00 per set....At this time Mr. Rocha could not state what the new prices may be.

Mr. Rocha could not give a specific time for release of the new spindles either...but they are on their way. This is the best news I have heard in these many months of phone conversations with different engineers at Bell Tech and Mr. Rocha.

Cocacolakidd

:hail:

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

Our list is still growing also:


Acescarrs
Firedawg 225
Duron Clocker
Oil Pan 4
MikeB85TA
Cocacolakidd
See Ya
Tom P
Texas LT1
88 IROC ZZ4
OneBad Z4U
Scorpner
Whitecamrs
V6Toy
XCeleratemaro
Souseiess
Dewey 316
RFTC
TOMCLF

All those who want to be added to our list chime in -

RTFC

THAT IS FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!

Spohn coilovers, here I come. Now I have the clearance to retain my lowered stance, run an adjustable monoball to set my set my front roll center where ever I want it, correct my still slightly suffering steering angle (bumpsteer- I have the baer bumpsteer adjusters completely maxed out and I still don;t have enough geometry correction- the spindles will do this)

TRhis is the most important part these cars need in retaining geometry levels when anyone lowers a 3rd gen more than 1 "

Coca, thank you for your persistence.

Dean

acescarrsRS

Cool! Thanks for all the new info....& putting me at the top of the list lol!

Xceleratemaro

hell yea
im ready


PLEASE GIVE ME A 3 WEEK NOTICE THAT WAY I CAN COME UP WITH THE MONEY IN TIME..

sweet,

thanks chris,:lala:

Dewey316

This is GREAT.

I'm in the same boat, some advanced notice, so we have money in hand and ready is always nice.

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

I am sure we will have an advanced notice of sales release of the spindles. I am also thinking that if we see the spindles ready for purchase by early summer this will give us each some time to save up for them.

I have been waiting for another product to be produced from another manufacturer for some time now. This particular manufacturer has stated over and over that they will be ready in a few more months. Just recently they stated it will be six more months. There is another list here on TGO with many/100's who are waiting for that product. I do not get the feeling that this will be the case with Bell Tech and the dropped spindles. Hopefully they will be on the market soon. From being idle/non-production to retail sales does take a little time though.

Cocacolakidd

VILeninDM

Dean, I've got a question for you.

I am seriously starting to consider this dropped spingle option if I go with Spohn coil over front/rear setups.

I've read some people say that our strut towers were never designed to carry the weight of the car itself, so having coil overs would only be good for strip car, but not for heavy use and daily driver.

I will be going with spohn billet strut mounts, but I don't know if there is other stuff that should be done to the frame before you put these things in.

What are your plans? Do you know how much those coil overs from spohn will run at when they do release them?

RTFC

The plate system Spohn has developed addresses the problem of the fenders bulging from underneath. He designed a 1/4" thick plate the bolts to the recessed area underneath the fenderwell that retains the factory rolled lip of the fender hole where the strut breaches through into the strutmount. This whole fender platform is what bends upward from the previous designs of others (AJE, PA, Etc). They have done very slight modifications to brace this area, but nothing as beefy as an aprox 8" x9" 1/4" thick plate that braces the underneath of the fender where the strut mount attaches, and all required removal of the rolled lip which weakened the factory structure.

The fender structure laterally is plenty strong for daily use hence the factory control position of the strut mounts point. This is a crutial mounting point already for the factory suspension being the upper link. it just wasn't braced enough from the factory to withstand the load of the coilspring forcing underneath the thinner sheetmetal flat top portion. The added 1/4" thick plate further supports this from bending or bulging at all.

The concern I think right now is the ride height clearence when installed on a lowered car. Spohn wanted and gathered more info on actually ride heights (stock and lowered) to get an idea of actually suspension travels. He is working out all of the potential bugs and making sure before he releases it that all basis' are covered and that the product is fully tested and is safe. Its working perfect for a stock heoght car, but it will not fit on mine lowered 2- 2 1/2" inches without grounding out into the underneath plate assembly- He's working on it and trying to perfect any option.

I personally don't really see any option on an escessively lowered car like mine unless I was able to get a custom steel strut mount assembly (which I have designed- but not cost effective) that was able to holdup to the forces (My HMS aluminum mount won't) of the spring cap resting up inside the bottom of it instead of on the second of the 3plate design Steve has developed.

In conclusion, I am very happy with, and when possible want to immediately install Spohn's current design at stock ride height as long as I could acquire a set of new BellTech Drop spindles (2" drop).
This is ultimately the best solution regardless of Coilovers if anyone is considering dropping their car more than 1". Otherwise without drop spindles, even a conventional lowered spring setup (Non-coilovers) has problems with steering geometry and A-arm geometry- it can NOT be corrected properly without drop spindles if the car is lowered 1 1/2" or more- This is a fact!

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

hey if it will be easy to upgrade to the c4 brakes like ebmiller was talking about count me in for at least 1. Been looking for these things for a couple years.

dwright

Hi
I am very interested in a set of Dropp Spindles. We run a '82 Camaro at the Bonneville Salt flats, and we need to get it down out of the air without messing up our very stable suspension geometry.
Keep me up to date on the possibility.
Thanks
Dan
daniel.wright@genetics.utah.edu

dwright

Hi
I am very interested in a set of Drop Spindles. We run a '82 Camaro at the Bonneville Salt flats, and we need to get it down out of the air without messing up our very stable suspension geometry.
Keep me up to date on the possibility.
Thanks
Dan
daniel.wright@genetics.utah.edu

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

According to Alvin Rocha of Bell Tech the first of the spindles should be out of production by this June, 2005. I thought this was wonderful news as before they were almost extinct, and now they are going to be available again. I am thinking that I may get two pair and frame the second with a picture of a Saber Tooth Tiger (Naw just kiddin).

I have talked/emailed with E.B Miller of TGO (our brake master here), and he is going to run the experiments with a set of Dropped Spindles, to fit them with LS1 brakes, and others. I guess we will know more then, and I hope the new Spindles will be adaptable for our larger brakes like OEM spindles. Cocacolakidd...

VILeninDM

Yeah, I think you'd get quite a few more people committing to this thing if we actually knew that the brakes would fit. This is why my name is not on the list. Otherwise, if you told me I can take my C5's and put then on there, I would buy these spindles 100%.

btw, what's the latest on the price range we are looking at?

RTFC

They should work identical to the factory OEM mounting points so YES the 1LE brakes will work.
The difference on the drop spindles is the balljoint mount, the steering arm, and the steering stop are casted lower. Where the backing plate mounts in relation to the spindle remain constant thus using these holes to mount the 1LE brackets will remain just like the factory does it.

On some kits I have seen where people remove the steering stop so their homemade brackets will work. The same can be done on drop spindles.

Note the red "extention" areas are what give the same mount position of the factory balljoint but raises the spindle 2" so unotherwords the car lowers 2" in the front retaining proper geometry.

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

If this is the case of the ball joint mount, the steering arm, and the steering stop are cast lower - what of the Strut mount at the top of the casting? Is this not also moved lower on the casting? Therefore retaining OEM suspension. This could effect the mounting of different (1LE,LS1,C5,C6) brake systems. The Dropped Spindles should retain the OEM brake mount dimensions, so the spindles are useable as replacement parts. I hope that the strut mount is also lowered, and the wheel and brake mount is raised, therefore giving full travel to the struts ( this is maybe an ideal world also). What of the old style of Dropped Spindles? Was this the case of just lowering the bottom portion of the spindle?

If Alvin Rocha is not busy, or out of the shop there at BellTech (very hard to get him on the phone), I will call to see if he can clarify this issue. Maybe he has an idea of the configuration of them (new or old).

Cocacolakidd...

VILeninDM

I am sure the original brake bolt holes will be exactly where they are supposed to be for the stock brakes to work. Problem is that our conversions use dust shield holes. Who knows what happened to those when they designed the dropped spindle. For all you know they could have said, dust shield is not that important, let's not even waste time drilling them.

soloc4

Here are a couple of comparision photos of original and drop spindles. The drop spindles are on the right. I hope this helps.

soloc4

SORRY! I need to figure out how to post pictures. I'll try again later.

bud mcmanus

i would take 2 sets of these dropped spindles for my salt flats race car and a future project. absolutly count me in, can i have them tomorrow. bud/#790

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

maybe these will clear up the shield mounting questions....

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

belltech rear....had to compress the pictures quite a bit more than usual to get them to post, must be something with the board?

FullSendRacing

I'd be down for a set. As others have said, it'd be awesome if they made it so you could mount C5/LS1 kits.... Seems silly to buy a brand new spindle just to drill holes in it and hack pieces off

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the pictures...I can see from both pictures that to have the strut mount in a standard position the bottom strut bolt would be into the spindle proper. The rest of the steering geometry remains the same, and the spindle proper along with the strut mount moves up by 2"...all clear. Again thanks for the pictures - Cocacolakidd.

RTFC

The mount pad for the strut IS actually lower, just not as much. It looks to be at least 1" drop though giving more strut travel room for coilovers on a lowered car. the bottom sections are 2" lower wihile the top is only 1" due to positioning of the spindle would invade into the strut mounting space if it were lowered the 2" also.

You can see in my reference picture that the stock backingplate holes (blue dots) are positioned with different vertical reference to the stock spindle as apposed to the Belltech lowered spindle pictured above. Note the blue arrows referencing positioning.

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

Well the 1" drop for the struts is livable - that leaves plenty of travel for std. struts, and room for coil-overs.

Alvin Rocha of Bell Tech Engineering said there were going to be a couple of engineering changes to the Spindles. At the time I think he was referring to routing, or machining processes to make the spindles a little more shop friendly. He did state that one reason for their discontinuance before was that the third gen. spindles were labor intensive in the machine shop. So with this information let's assume that the spindles are going to be the same, but with different machining, or shop processes. He also stated that the new engineering changes were to help keep the spindles in line with prices of other spindles they currently produce. We will have to wait a bit, but I hope there are no big surprises ...

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

just wondering if any of you guys will be running lowering springs with these? I want a set of these, but i just bought eibach pro kit springs. so that would be a 3in drop in the front. and only 1 in the rear. btw any estimates in price yet?