jahblah

ello mates!!!

1) which way is a hood scoop more effective?
2) which way does it look better facing?

ram air faces forward..cowl induction faces backwards..see people with both..i was planning on getting a hood scoop or 2 so i can mold or weld and smooth them into my steel hood. yes, i have heard that it wont last forever cause of cracks and bending but i think this would be easier instead of spending 5+ on a ram air hood or anything like that. i do like the ram air, but im not the type to throw half a grand into something like that. if i was to find one cheaper then sure..ANYWAY..what you all opinions?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Go with whatever looks 'cooler' to you.

You will not notice much of an improvement either way, unless you have a race car.

As for plastic bonded to metel, you are right it won't last forever, actually if it lasts a year before cracking you've done well.

jahblah

lmao not looking for plastic so much as fiberglass or even a metal one if i find one. but i was just wondering because i googled it and there are many mixed emotions all over the place. some say the rear facing scoop helps draw the air flow that is clinging to the car while driving as well as allow a "back door" for the current air to flow through..others say the front facing ones help draw air into the bay (as one would think) therefore cooling down the engine and giving some EXTRA fresh air straight to the open element air cleaner (in which i have)..

but even though you say it only matters on race cars.....which one would make a better difference???? ive seen race cars with both styles

travis401

iTrader: (1)

you can get steel weld on scoops that if welded on right will last just as long as the hood.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

front facing is for more of a ram air effect. but as stated, each has slight advantages and disadvantages. neither will show a large increase in HP

jahblah

i understand that. so with advantages and disadvantages aside, ram air effect is better than cowl induction? which would YOU get IF you had to decide?

never heard of but shall be looking one of these up.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

the ram air effect is only marginal at highway speeds, so its more of a question of which one do YOU think LOOKS better. either one will be marginal performance gains.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

you can get weld on cowls from jegs for about $150

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

The front facing scoop is the best if we are only talking race car. Just look at pro stock cars, lots of time has been spent researching the most effective design. Lots of disadvantages for the street. My 55 has a front mount scoop, largely cause it fits the body style. I have a cowl induction style on my iroc.
All designs will be useless unless they are sealed to the carb or tb.

jahblah

now THAT is more like it. $150 and a little welding tops $500+ to me anyday...but then again, those hoods are fully fiberglass, not steel. but i was honestly looking for something functional but not so common if that makes sense. dont want those nonfunctional $20 autozone stickons but i didnt want just a 3" cowl or the ram air nostrils like whats on EVERY OTHER CAR EVERYWHERE either. so i was going to maybe order a functional scoop or two, fab something up, and put it all together..but wanted to know which position on the hood would have been more useful or plentiful if you will..as far as 'LOOKS'...i mean heyy, i have a flat steel hood...anything on it will make it 'look' better...i just wanted to know what looked better to others on TGO..and just needed a few opinions about which position handles air flow better. maybe that helped elaborate on what i was trying to get out of this post. sorry if i wasnt as clear earlier

jahblah

KIND OF LIKE THE FUNCTIONAL SHAKER HOOD????? I THOUGHT ABOUT A SIMILAR DESIGN!!!!!!!!!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

biggest issue with a front facing scoop is rain. A cowl will not suck in as much water.

also depends on induction. A carb/TB will work well with a cowl, a FI engine, no so much since the intake is in the front.

jahblah

and rain with the front facing scoop has been my biggest question..i mean, how DO the ram air guys get past that??? and i have a tbi with an open element. i was thinking that maybe a front facing scoop positioned slightly (maybe an inch or two) before the area on the hood directly above the air cleaner, maybe that would benefit more..

travis401

iTrader: (1)

driving in the rain is gonna get watter in the intake no matter what you do. rain water makes it through the front and into the intake, just not as much as a scoop. either way its not enough to be of concern.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

A hole or too drilled in the lowest point of the air pan, or hood under scoop.
On my 55, It doesn't see rain, no wipers, 16.5" et streets make rain too scary!

jahblah

so a rear facing i better, rain water wise?

jahblah

that would make rain a horrifying thing lol

AlkyIROC

Cowl scoops work well on a street car. The base of the cowl is a high pressure area and air is forced into the cowl. It helps to have the carb sealed to the cowl.

Front mounted scoops look impressive but as stated above, rain is the worst enemy to a street driven vehicle. Front mounted scoops also catch a lot of air. You probably wouldn't notice it on a street vehicle but by about half track when I'm over 100 MPH, I can see the back of my hood trying to lift from the amount of air the scoop is catching. For me, that ram air effect increases the VE at high rpms by forcing more air into the cylinders.

For a street car, the biggest improvement you can do is just get cooler outside air into the engine instead of the hot air from under the hood. Any kind of cold air induction will work better than a cowl or scoop. Cowls and scoops are mainly for clearance issues. The added bonus is the ability to get some outside air at the same time.

jahblah

this..is a PERFECT explanation ..cowl it is.

NOW...as far as looks... what are YOU GUYS OPINIONS on a..oh lets say 3" cowl hood AND adding like 2 small scoops (like maybe 3" wide by 2" high", front facing) over or on the inner sides of the washer and overflow tank? something to set my hood apart from other cowls.. remember, your opinions. if you think its stupid, please suggest an idea instead (ive seen how people up here can get). im going to try and draw up my image for you guys on paint

jahblah

something like this but alot more detailed lol maybe the smaller scoops placed further away from the open element will still allow some air under the hood but not anwhere near the the goods where water or whatever would get directly into the pan. i have removed my washer bottle and plan to get a smaller overflow tank and relocate it to in front of the radiator like some do. plus, i rarely get caught in rain anyway..im usually home or at work already.

robotic_junky

That reminds me of the turbo style hood.

jahblah

it does, doesnt it lmao well then...dont i feel...sheepish
but idk, guess ill have to advance my creative side. thank you for that robotic_junky, i havent laughed all day

Patrick Day

jahblah.
When it comes to scoops vs cowls it deepends on what you want them to do. A scoop such as the ram air only has one fuction and that is to push air into the intake. A cowl helps cool the engine and gives more cooler air to the intake. Now I've noticed that you maybe using this on a firebird. Well you don't have many choices. and what ever you get weld on or wold it on your going to have to modife your scoop or cowl to fit becouse your hood has a curve and is not flat in anyway. I myself made mine hood from fiberglass. startedwish a cowl scoop and made it fit the stock hoop then made a plug , then the new hood. I can't uplaod pics of it here but it is on my face book under patrick day if you want to see

jahblah

yeah man,, firebirds have a VERY limited selection of hoods. you can go on craigslist, ebay, or whatever and find a camaro hood. but 9/10, you wont find a firebird hood (thats not the flat one) anywhere. and yea, that curvy hood has striked up some concerns in my plans. i saw, on thirdgen ranch, a firebird fiberglass 4 1/2" cowl induction pin on hood for $335.

http://thirdgenranch.com/-strse-1034...s-4/Detail.bok

maybe i could get that hood and go from there

travis401

iTrader: (1)

thats kinda big for a street car. youll have some visibility issues with even a 3" cowl

jahblah

DANGGIT!!!! lol havent seen any 2" cowls either. ever heard of anyone chopping up a camaro hood and fitting the louvers or whatever into the firebid hood? are those camaro hoods functional or are they like the "for show" louvered trans am hoods

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

They are for show, but some guys have made them functional.

As far as Firebird hoods, I like the factory GTA hoods with the vents in the front and sides. Also the Ram air hood looks better on the birds than camaros imo.

What are you trying to accomplish? Ram or cold air intake, or looks?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

either can work, but it all depends on design. Most of what you see does nothing besides give you some hood clearance and look different. Even the factory setups (I own a '97 WS6) aren't as good as a cold air intake under the hood.

the factory setups put a baffle right after the opening, with a trough below it that has drain holes. water coming in hits the baffle, falls down into the trough and then drips out of the holes. Water getting into the engine is usually not a problem with them.

If you want function then you need to define the function you're looking for (getting cold air into the engine, getting hot air out, hood clearance...) and the intended use (street, strip, road course, autox- speed and conditions will change what works and hot big/position for the openings).

Why not just find a used 82-84TA/3rd gen formula hood (they were functional on the 82-84, the formula one is the same hood with a removable block off plate)?

robotic_junky

"For show," but some people have made them functional.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Thats what I said.

robotic_junky

Sorry, I type slow.

Gumby

Rain snow or what ever is no problem with a scoop, had em on a few cars and never a problem.

Either with the firebird.

forward facing scoops just need to be in the air flow to be most effective, why they are so big on race cars. [why nascar is cowl induction, big scoops would block their view]

To help with that is why i installed my scoops at the apex of the hood, so the scoops are facing forward right into the air streme, and it makes a big difference when you car now breathes cool fresh air directly from outside.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Gumby, any pics of how your scoops feed your engine?, NEvermind, I looked through your thread. Some interesting mods there.

AlkyIROC

You only need enough cowl to provide enough clearance for what's under it. If you can get away with a 2" cowl, you'll be happier than going with a 4". I once had a 6" on my car and visibility sucked but I also had 2 air filters poking through the cowl. My current hood has a 2" cowl on it with a low profile scoop attached to the top. It's just enough to cover the tunnel ram but I have no room for air filters. If I wanted to, I could unbolt the scoop from the cowl and run with the induction system exposed. I may remove the aeroscoop next year and install a Hilborn style scoop but I'd want a flat hood first.

jahblah

i dont have anything giant under my hood that needs 4" of cowl...my cleaner fits under the stock flat hood. i just want more good, fresh, clean air to my engine without the hassle of water. thats why i had that idea of a cowl with 2 small front facing scoops..imagine Gumby's hood with a 2-3" cowl induction on the back..maybe have the scoops a little further apart so that its not all squished on the hood. that would provide the benefits of a rear facing cowl and 2 small front facing scoops for the added front facing scoop benefits....AIR EVERYWHERE!!!!!! LOL

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Again, You will not see or feel a noticable difference with any of these on a stock or near stock car. If you want something that looks cool to you, build or buy whatever you want. You are not going to see or feel any real change from any of the designs, so we are jsut splitting hairs here in terms of performance advantages.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

cut a hole in the flat hood and run a shaker scoop

jahblah

well im in the process of building me a 350 so performance will play a part soon enough. but as of now, im just looking to get more fresh, cool air into my air cleaner and engine bay AND having it look unique while its doing just that. thats why i was running ideas of scoops facing different directions and the combo of the 2 on 1 hood. sorry if you dont quite understand what im looking for here.

yeah man!! that was an idea i had as well. only thing i dont like about a shaker hood on a 3rd gen bird is that it leaves the rest of the hood looking bare and plain. maybe i could fab up a bigger one myself...thats something to look into

travis401

iTrader: (1)

theres a sketch that a member did on here that ive kept for inspiration i wont post out out in the open just because its not MY sketch, but if you want i can PM it to you. it looks damn good, but its a camaro sketch. its a rear facing shaker scoop that just fits with the body lines and style.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I understand what you are looking for. Like I said, I run a Cowl induction style (jongblod) hood on my camaro, it is sealed to the air cleaner.

On my 55 chevy I have a Front opening snorkle style hood scoop, that is sealed to my air cleaner.

Either or will work, both work well, again it comes down to what you think looks good, and what drawbacks (such as blocking view) you can deal with.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

i think cowls look better with the long front end and laid back body lines of the 3rd gens. the scoop fits good with the forward pushed look of the tri-5.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I agree.

jahblah

yes please do. could be the uniqueness im looking for. i could build from it.

wow, can see how a big front facing scoop can obstruct view. the one on your 55 is a nice size for the body. and idk if its just the way the pic was taken but that cowl on your camaro looks awesome. its not just squared off. looks to have some roundage. rolls with the body

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

It's not the angle, it's the hood. It's a jongblod aka sunoco hood, not a standard cowl induction.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

i love the jongbloed hood. theres even someone on here putting functional louvers on one.

Gumby

When ya do make sure and just focus on making it dead center of the hood, then fudge the under side to line up.

Gumby

Keeps it intresting, Ive had it over 12 years now.

91ls1t56

A forward facing scoop won't do you any good unless it's the size of a mailbox or bigger. All the little scoops on cars these days are about as effective as decals and stickers. I watched a program on muscle cars and they were focusing on the 64 GTO,they went into detail on the scoop design. The little one inch open in front scoop on these cars was shown in a wind tunnel the air went right over it not in it. Compare the designs of the 4th gen cars,the SS and WS6. The SS is the same as the before mentioned 64 GTO, a small scoop in the middle of the hood maybe an inch high,it will not ram air into your engine. If it is open the engine vacuum will suck in cold fresh air. Now turn your attention to the WS6 design. It is more up front,sticking out into the air,it is possible that this would actually work as described by ramming air into the engine. I have a cowl induction scoop on my car and I can watch it work so I know it works. In my opinion the cowl is the best and most effective for a street car.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

already shared that little tid bit to the OP in a pm usually the engine is biased a few inches towards the passenger side, in case anyone wants to cut a hole in their hood.

g00d$p33d

[QUOTE=AlkyIROC where or how can i get my hands on or make a scoop and cowl hood like yours or similar too it?